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Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done.

Posted By: Foucault

Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/23/11 08:41 PM

http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/17-4590/

Hundreds to potentially thousand of people will see this Quick Look and know that this game is a broken, buggy, and non-intuitive mess.

Way to fix the game up before North American launch.
Posted By: bisher

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/23/11 09:05 PM

Well that's what it is, fair enough. I love this game
Posted By: ATAG_Snapper

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/23/11 09:20 PM

It works for me. reading
Posted By: letterboy1

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/23/11 10:03 PM

"ILL two . . . Illinois two . . . it's Russian or something"

Well, there goes the non-niche market.
Posted By: kilosierra

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/23/11 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Snapper
It works for me. reading


yup,

same here, never had a prob entering a server.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 12:35 AM

That was quite an entertaining watch, in a 'Bill and Ted Does WWII Aviation - Whoah' kind of way - thanks for the link.

Yep, shame about the MP bugs at the end although their 'quick look' (at 50 minutes!) covered quite a lot of ground.

I'm not sure how many casual 'Does this game support a PS/3 controller rumble effect' audience these kind of reviews will lose, or even if that's a bad thing for either party, i.e. rightly or wrongly this game isn't a pick up and play thing just yet.

I wonder what would happen if they did get online (they were trying the Syn server I think), that might have made good tv smile
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 12:45 AM

Multiplayer works great for me. There is a sound bug, but turning off AI sound or Trees is a temporary fix until the devs fix it.
Posted By: RocketDog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 01:33 AM

How many people are on the servers for CloD? I don't do multiplayer often and have parked CloD for a while in any case, but on the few occasions I looked online in RoF I was surprised by how few people there were.
Posted By: Foucault

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 03:31 AM

What all you folks fail to understand is that the Giant Bomb guys have literally done hundreds of these Quick Looks and I have watched many, many of them. I can guarantee you those gents have rarely encountered such substantial problems just getting into a multiplayer match on console or PC.

CoD is a frigging joke compared to nearly every other modern video game of note that I can think of.

While you may all be willing to discount these individuals' credibility and expertise, it is clear that they are both somewhat familiar with sim games and the kind of complexity and gear necessary for flight sims. Yes, they were goofing on games. That's what Giant Bomb does, but that experienced and competent console and PC gamers could not figure out how to get into a multiplayer game is pretty telling and pretty damning.
Posted By: commorange

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 05:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Foucault
That's what Giant Bomb does, but that experienced and competent console and PC gamers could not figure out how to get into a multiplayer game is pretty telling and pretty damning.



Foucalt I have been one of the more critical players of this game and taken lots of heat for my negative comments.

But seriously man.. "pretty telling and pretty damning" ?? Was some felony crime committed in relation to the creation of this

game?? And just whom is this damning evidence supposed to condemn to Hades?? Anyway, i watched the video, They sure enough looked

like they know video games even if they dont know beans about WW2 aircraft. But looked like they were having fun with it

up until the MP problems.
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 07:44 AM

I just spent 3hrs on Multiplayer and had a great time. I'll grant you selecting Multiplayer isn't intuitive and should be addressed, but certainly doesn't warrant an epic failure. The sim was definitely released before it was finished, but I have no doubt in time it will be the next WW2 aircombat sim benchmark. ROF was in the same boat when it was released before it was ready, now it has most the bugs and features working. The same will hold true for COD.
Posted By: IV/JG7trumps

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 11:59 AM

I have not had an issue joining an online game since the first patch, I have in all honesty been suprised at how well it has been playing in relation to my pings, sound issues not withstanding of course. Give it time and it will hopefully mature into all it hints at!
Posted By: Philip_ed

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
I just spent 3hrs on Multiplayer and had a great time. I'll grant you selecting Multiplayer isn't intuitive and should be addressed, but certainly doesn't warrant an epic failure. The sim was definitely released before it was finished, but I have no doubt in time it will be the next WW2 aircombat sim benchmark. ROF was in the same boat when it was released before it was ready, now it has most the bugs and features working. The same will hold true for COD.


We know that they will continue to develop it, but it doesn't meant the sim will become great. I struggle to enjoy vanilla Il-2 because the mods have spoilt me, and there are so many modded features I struggle to fly without. CloD could be just the same; we have no gurantee the team will deliver in bringing the game up to the exceptional standard we expected: photorealistic aesthetically, and groundbreaking in terms of gameplay.
I fully agree that this could happen, and believe me I hope it does, but TBH the team have scant to show in 5 months of development in way of significant, tangible improvement.
Posted By: Foucault

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 05:44 PM

Let me rephrase this, because you guys just aren't getting it. Irrespective of your experiences with multiplayer and your time invested in sussing out how to make it work effectively, if at all, these folks at Giant Bomb are experienced console and PC gamers who could not figure out how to use one of the key features of this game.

How do you think some less experienced or even novice individual is going to fare when met with CoD's byzantine UI and setups? Do you think someone who has plunked down his 50 bucks and is not completely invested beforehand is going to wade through this garbage UI to even get at the multiplayer experience proper?

Maddox Games has frankly taken a significant step backward with respect to the multiplayer experience from IL-2:1946. In comparison to every other multiplayer experience that I have seen or played, CoD is, to be frank, nowhere near a modern experience and seems barely functional. This reflects very poorly on the game as a whole and Maddox Games in particular. It is also exceedingly frustrating to me in that I have held Maddox Games out as an exemplar of how to do things right and how to maintain relationships with its fans.

CoD is a huge disappointment and Giant Bomb's experience is demonstrative of the game's failings.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 05:58 PM

Foucault, so let's say we all agree with you 100% and we completely get what you are saying: What do you want to happen now?
Posted By: bisher

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: bisher
Well that's what it is, fair enough. I love this game


No I do get it, but what are you gonna do about it.....wait; this game's state is not static

Do you think Maddox Games is happy with the state the game is in, this is not a rhetorical question.
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 07:08 PM

I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.
Posted By: commorange

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

Bryan.


OR is there a secret fear that this game will in time be fixed and become the premier air combat game/sim???

OMG i am starting to sound like... You know who i am talking about. eek
Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Of course that is what all the complaining and whining is about, i feel it. this was the great white hope and its struggling at the moment, ALL us simmers want COD to rise to take IL2s crown. How can we not?
Ive been accused of "wanting it to fail" and "having a agenda" why would i want it to fail, im a WW2 flight simmer??? i also have no clue how you can have a agenda against a flight sim? screwy

I was playing online today for 3 hours and for the most part it was ok, some "great" moments, but it looked UGLY(no trees) and the bugs kept popping up and bringing me down to earth, and i wondered how would someone new to COD feel? confused and disappointed i would of guessed.
Yes sometimes i #%&*$# and moan about COD and its development, buts its through frustration and anger at the devs for making everything so hard to use from the GUI, skins, loadouts and a host of other things, and for making what seems to me totally baffling development choices like no CO-OPs, the trees, the sound, landscape, no campaigns, 64bit, DX11 and for all good things we thought we was going to get

for the most part i worry that's its not going to make it, for all of Luthiers talk, and there is nothing to take its place. sigh


Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Maddox Games and IC publishing/IC Softclub don't need Ubisoft anymore. Thw only reason UBISOFT is still in the picture is they have been funding COD for years and have to be paid off. Maddox Games, IC Publishing/IC Softclub, and Steam could get along just fine without Ubisoft at this time.

Now that COD is making money the developer wants to keep making money thru further development of the new IL-2 series.
Posted By: RocketDog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Foucault, so let's say we all agree with you 100% and we completely get what you are saying: What do you want to happen now?


Speaking for myself, I'd like to see 1C dismiss Luthier/Ilya and a few other underperforming members of the team, install a project manager with some experience and who has a proven record of success and hire in some more capable specialists. The fact they have brought in the RoF sound guy is a step in the right direction, but 1C really needs to have a clear out and make a fresh start if they are going to have a credible go at a flight sim. Othrewise it's going to be a repeat of SH5, but with aircraft rather than submarines.
Posted By: kilosierra

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Foucault
Let me rephrase this, because you guys just aren't getting it. Irrespective of your experiences with multiplayer and your time invested in sussing out how to make it work effectively, if at all, these folks at Giant Bomb are experienced console and PC gamers who could not figure out how to use one of the key features of this game.



Sorry,

but BS. We had this "journalist" in one of the more famous Game Mags a few years ago. He was writing the Sim reviews. He was called "Mike Two Buttons" because he was overloaded if a game used more tzhan that on a stick, and was negative about that. Oki, overstressing, but you get the point.

I don`t know the guys of that video, but to me, they didn´t seem to be that sim pros. And MY sim, didn`t crash at the point in the video. Ever. Is there a agenda?

We all know that CoD has serious bugs. Time will tell, if they will iron them out. I think, they will `cause they have one history. Il-2.

If not, would be a shame. I`ve still had more time with this game than with some same-prized 3D shooter I played once and then forget about it, because it has no replay value.
Posted By: Foucault

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/24/11 11:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kilosierra
Originally Posted By: Foucault
Let me rephrase this, because you guys just aren't getting it. Irrespective of your experiences with multiplayer and your time invested in sussing out how to make it work effectively, if at all, these folks at Giant Bomb are experienced console and PC gamers who could not figure out how to use one of the key features of this game.


We all know that CoD has serious bugs. Time will tell, if they will iron them out. I think, they will `cause they have one history. Il-2.


Yes, you and many others may know the game has serious bugs and you may also be confident that they will be fixed. However there are thousands of people that visit Giant Bomb who don't know anything about CoD, Maddox Games, or 1C. This will be their first impression of the game. I can guarantee you that those people visiting Giant Bomb are intimately conversant with modern multiplayer experiences. When they see that Quick Look, they will know that CoD is a problematic mess.
Posted By: bisher

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/25/11 03:45 AM

Foucault sorry but it sounds like you're arguing with yourself, I don't think anyone disagrees or does not get the point. It's just what it is
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/25/11 04:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Maddox Games and IC publishing/IC Softclub don't need Ubisoft anymore. Thw only reason UBISOFT is still in the picture is they have been funding COD for years and have to be paid off. Maddox Games, IC Publishing/IC Softclub, and Steam could get along just fine without Ubisoft at this time.

Now that COD is making money the developer wants to keep making money thru further development of the new IL-2 series.


Quite a lot of assumptions in your post, not least that COD is/will make enough money to satisfy UBI/1C to continue development funding. As I said UBI have shown no love towards this sim at all and their actions...lack of advertising for one....speak volumes.


Bryan.
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/25/11 06:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Maddox Games and IC publishing/IC Softclub don't need Ubisoft anymore. Thw only reason UBISOFT is still in the picture is they have been funding COD for years and have to be paid off. Maddox Games, IC Publishing/IC Softclub, and Steam could get along just fine without Ubisoft at this time.

Now that COD is making money the developer wants to keep making money thru further development of the new IL-2 series.


Quite a lot of assumptions in your post, not least that COD is/will make enough money to satisfy UBI/1C to continue development funding. As I said UBI have shown no love towards this sim at all and their actions...lack of advertising for one....speak volumes.


Bryan.


No more assumptions than in your post. Luthier didn't even mention Ubisoft in his last post. Only stating "We the developers are a part of 1C-Softclub, Russia’s largest software developer and publisher. We are backed by a dedicated production team, and most importantly, our top management has complete faith in the team and in the product line. That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

He also mentioned "The game was finally released in the US yesterday (on the 19th) and is currently a #1 top selling Simulation title on steam!"

You are right that Ubisoft won't be going anywhere as long as the development owes them money, but from this point on the development would do just fine without them.
Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/25/11 08:35 AM

What ever they do next Chivas, they need to do the MP GUI from scratch as it is even you can agree pretty awful and far from user friendly.


i would like a total revamp of the whole UI to bring it into this century, im not joking, its looks to me something from the 90s.
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/25/11 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Maddox Games and IC publishing/IC Softclub don't need Ubisoft anymore. Thw only reason UBISOFT is still in the picture is they have been funding COD for years and have to be paid off. Maddox Games, IC Publishing/IC Softclub, and Steam could get along just fine without Ubisoft at this time.

Now that COD is making money the developer wants to keep making money thru further development of the new IL-2 series.


Quite a lot of assumptions in your post, not least that COD is/will make enough money to satisfy UBI/1C to continue development funding. As I said UBI have shown no love towards this sim at all and their actions...lack of advertising for one....speak volumes.


Bryan.


No more assumptions than in your post. Luthier didn't even mention Ubisoft in his last post. Only stating "We the developers are a part of 1C-Softclub, Russia’s largest software developer and publisher. We are backed by a dedicated production team, and most importantly, our top management has complete faith in the team and in the product line. That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

He also mentioned "The game was finally released in the US yesterday (on the 19th) and is currently a #1 top selling Simulation title on steam!"

You are right that Ubisoft won't be going anywhere as long as the development owes them money, but from this point on the development would do just fine without them.


Problem is the damage may already be done, sales have no doubt been poor and therefore any financial backers whether that be 1C of Ubi will pull the plug when they have got their return. The future of this game was evidently uncertain from the start considering the state of it when first released, and just because Luthier makes some encouraging sounds about future development does not mean he is the one making the decisions.

Surely no self respecting developer would have wished to see his work pushed out the door the way COD was, that goes to show how little influence Luthier has on the future of this sim.

Just because Luthier was told by someone above him that they had full support does not mean a thing really, witness how lies and misinformation abounded before the release of this sim. The truth was not told then, what makes you think it is now?


Bryan.
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 07:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.


Maddox Games and IC publishing/IC Softclub don't need Ubisoft anymore. Thw only reason UBISOFT is still in the picture is they have been funding COD for years and have to be paid off. Maddox Games, IC Publishing/IC Softclub, and Steam could get along just fine without Ubisoft at this time.

Now that COD is making money the developer wants to keep making money thru further development of the new IL-2 series.


Quite a lot of assumptions in your post, not least that COD is/will make enough money to satisfy UBI/1C to continue development funding. As I said UBI have shown no love towards this sim at all and their actions...lack of advertising for one....speak volumes.


Bryan.


No more assumptions than in your post. Luthier didn't even mention Ubisoft in his last post. Only stating "We the developers are a part of 1C-Softclub, Russia’s largest software developer and publisher. We are backed by a dedicated production team, and most importantly, our top management has complete faith in the team and in the product line. That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

He also mentioned "The game was finally released in the US yesterday (on the 19th) and is currently a #1 top selling Simulation title on steam!"

You are right that Ubisoft won't be going anywhere as long as the development owes them money, but from this point on the development would do just fine without them.


Problem is the damage may already be done, sales have no doubt been poor and therefore any financial backers whether that be 1C of Ubi will pull the plug when they have got their return. The future of this game was evidently uncertain from the start considering the state of it when first released, and just because Luthier makes some encouraging sounds about future development does not mean he is the one making the decisions.

Surely no self respecting developer would have wished to see his work pushed out the door the way COD was, that goes to show how little influence Luthier has on the future of this sim.

Just because Luthier was told by someone above him that they had full support does not mean a thing really, witness how lies and misinformation abounded before the release of this sim. The truth was not told then, what makes you think it is now?


Bryan.




If the publishers plan was to release the sim, take the money, and run, they would have released COD on the same date world wide. They would never have release the sim in the East knowing the poor publicity that would garner before the Western release.

IF sales are strong enough, I'm sure the developers/publisher plan to support the new IL-2 series as long as they did the old series. Letting the public know how unfinished the sim was, would have killed COD outright. The sales in the East were obviously strong enough to keep working on the sim until atleast the Western release. They never would have wasted that money if they didn't have plans to support the sim.

You could be right that the publishers planned to kill the project for sometime, but its highly unlikely considering the steps they've taken so far. Personally I think the forums endless negativity is short sighted and counter productive, if we'd like to see COD get through this tough start.
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 08:19 AM

The whole of this release has been shambolic, so I don't think you can read to much into the way this game was released. After all reviews have been overall negative so the staggered release has affected sales.

You seem to allude in your post that the developers/publishers knew the sim was in a poor state but conived to deceive the people who would eventually buy this software?

To be honest you positive outlook towards COD is obvious with a cursory review of your previous posts, but am I to conlude that you agree with the shall we say "misleading" stance taken by the developers/publisher before the release of COD?

In any event the problems with COD lies with the developers/publishers not with honest users who spent money in good faith expecting to recieve a product as advertised but instead recieved something that basically thrust them into the role of beta testers.

These people have a right to complain, and they also have a right to warn people before they buy COD of the true nature of this software before they too were misled by advertising that failed to tell the whole picture.


Bryan.
Posted By: Robusti

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Herr_Kapitan
I personally think at the back of all the complaining is a secret fear that this game is going to be dumped before it is truly fixed.

After all it hasn't received a lot of love the way it was hacked before release to accommodate UBI's anti epilepsy filter (it you believe that) and in addition Ubisoft have shown no inclination towards the success of this sim. No advertising before the Euro release and even less if possible before the US release.

I think the truth is UBI want shot of this whole debacle, and once they have at least broken even financially they will withdraw all support.

If that happens where will the funding come from to support MG's faltering steps to really complete this sim?


Bryan.



And its not like they don't have a track record of this .........SH5
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 10:03 PM

The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.
Posted By: Robusti

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.
What you said, reminds me of SH5 release. And what decent sub sim is left?
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/26/11 11:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Icarus1
Originally Posted By: Chivas
The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.
What you said, reminds me of SH5 release. And what decent sub sim is left?


Here you go - your last six posts have been Silent Hunter related:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/106/1/Silent_Hunter_Series.html
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 12:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Icarus1
Originally Posted By: Chivas
The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.
What you said, reminds me of SH5 release. And what decent sub sim is left?


I would agree if Maddox Games was the developer of SH5 and the Air combat genre was as small as the Naval combat genre. The Cliffs of Dover would definitely not have survived the early release, but at the moment the COD developers are still in business.
Posted By: Nodak01

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 03:29 AM

No one goes looking or planning for failure, it has a nagging way of finding you all on it's own. Only time will tell, and the clock has ticked plenty already. I bought multiple copies of the various versions of Il-2 back in the days, but someone is going to have to walk on water to get me even looking at another in this line. Wish 1C best of luck, but really not counting on it. Time is against you.
Posted By: commorange

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 05:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.


I think you have some bad premises there. Its never a good idea to lie to your fan base. What would have been so bad if they had just used some honest PR about the true state of the game? True four months we all learned that CoD wasnt finished. That is four months on top of 6 plus years, now we have a US release where they didnt even patch the game to half way decent state.
Why do you expect the fan base to support the product now? ON the promise that they might fix the game in a minimum of a year?
But they were already dishonest to us all in the first place but NOW we are supposed to trust them? I'm sorry but they lost a lot of credibility the way they have handled marketing, public relations and honesty. That is going to be very difficult for them to get back I am afraid. You mentioned the cheap entertainment They provided us. Well "cheap" may be a relative term but I think it was certainly a value for the hobby we all enjoy. And I supported the Heck out of it. Heres the list of software I myself bought: IL2 original, IL2 forgotten Battles, Aces Expansion Pack, Pacific FIghters, IL21946 , plus two or three mission CD's. ANd I bought CoD from JustFlight a couple months ago. I think I have done my share of support. Nothing anybody says on this forum is going to drive away customers. If we bought it we have a right to complain. If the game is going to succeed or fail it is up to the Devs. They have no one to blame but themselves if it does fail.
Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 06:35 AM

Chivsas, every stage so far of COD has been shambolic, and i mean every stage, every milestone from the announcement in 2003 i think right through to the latest "update" from Luthier. You know the story better than most.
That does not give me hope for what ever they are trying to do. there is a base problem with COD, and its not going away any time soon.

They have had my support and my money, they have had almost 5 months since release, at what point should we start seeing the devs pull their fingers out and getting things right? 6 months, a year? how long Chivas?
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 06:51 AM

Originally Posted By: commorange
Originally Posted By: Chivas
The sim wasn't released early to screw the public. The sim was released early so that it can be finished. I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does. I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.

The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim. Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late. I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.

You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.




I think you have some bad premises there. Its never a good idea to lie to your fan base. What would have been so bad if they had just used some honest PR about the true state of the game? True four months we all learned that CoD wasnt finished. That is four months on top of 6 plus years, now we have a US release where they didnt even patch the game to half way decent state.
Why do you expect the fan base to support the product now? ON the promise that they might fix the game in a minimum of a year?
But they were already dishonest to us all in the first place but NOW we are supposed to trust them? I'm sorry but they lost a lot of credibility the way they have handled marketing, public relations and honesty. That is going to be very difficult for them to get back I am afraid. You mentioned the cheap entertainment They provided us. Well "cheap" may be a relative term but I think it was certainly a value for the hobby we all enjoy. And I supported the Heck out of it. Heres the list of software I myself bought: IL2 original, IL2 forgotten Battles, Aces Expansion Pack, Pacific FIghters, IL21946 , plus two or three mission CD's. ANd I bought CoD from JustFlight a couple months ago. I think I have done my share of support. Nothing anybody says on this forum is going to drive away customers. If we bought it we have a right to complain. If the game is going to succeed or fail it is up to the Devs. They have no one to blame but themselves if it does fail.


Being totally truthful may have made everyone feel better, but in the end it could have easily diluted sales enough to kill the development. They were caught between a rock and hard place, people don't want to pay full price for a beta, or be beta tester for that matter. Less money, fewer people, would not have secured the monies needed to continue support for the sim. You could be very pissed off at the handling of the release, but atleast now you might eventually end up with a finished product rather than a canceled project.
Posted By: Freycinet

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 07:44 AM

So, when Luthier and Oleg aren't "liars" or "thieves" they're now "looking like petty criminals"? - You are really tireless in your hateful crusade, aren't you? - Disgusting.
Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 07:59 AM

back again Frey? i thought....oh never mind.
Posted By: Tiger27

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Foucault
What all you folks fail to understand is that the Giant Bomb guys have literally done hundreds of these Quick Looks and I have watched many, many of them. I can guarantee you those gents have rarely encountered such substantial problems just getting into a multiplayer match on console or PC.

CoD is a frigging joke compared to nearly every other modern video game of note that I can think of.

While you may all be willing to discount these individuals' credibility and expertise, it is clear that they are both somewhat familiar with sim games and the kind of complexity and gear necessary for flight sims. Yes, they were goofing on games. That's what Giant Bomb does, but that experienced and competent console and PC gamers could not figure out how to get into a multiplayer game is pretty telling and pretty damning.


Never heard of them before, although I did enjoy the review, personally never had any issue getting in to MP, no crashes etc, not sure what problems they were having but they looked like they had just jumped in for a fly, probably hadn't done much with settings etc/

I read a few of the comments and they weren't to bad, I think their were some negative ones about WOP though, truth is most people that like flight sims will buy this no matter what these reviews say.

Oh I watched some of their other reviews and they seemed to have the same problems, in Call of Suarez? they were unable to fire up multiplayer as they weren't sure how to kick it off, I think that's the whole idea, its a quick look so I am sure they often have trouble with MP as many games require things to be set correctly to play.
Posted By: Tree

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 10:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Freycinet
So, when Luthier and Oleg aren't "liars" or "thieves" they're now "looking like petty criminals"? - You are really tireless in your hateful crusade, aren't you? - Disgusting.


Frey I think only a fool would try and suggest that Oleg and Luthier have not been econmical with the truth during the development process, if they had spoke the pure truth none of us would be complaining because the game would work as suggested. A thief is a petty criminal so if your suggesting that when oleg and luthier aren't thieving they look like petty criminals well i cannot comment on this, ive never seen any images of russian thieves.

Frey i dont know why you keep coming in here it only upsets you, stay in the nice boys room. biggrin
Posted By: darkmouse

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 11:21 AM

Plenty of things, including software, are sold in the UK with no garuantee of the functionality of that software, just the physical media it is delivered on. So,no it is not fraud.

I sold my TVR the other day - if it broke down as the guy who bought it was driving away - tough.

Actually TVR's are kinda like this game - hugely enjoyable, just not very reliable, very expensive to run and its not fraud to sell them without mentioning a few minor niggles.
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Freycinet
So, when Luthier and Oleg aren't "liars" or "thieves" they're now "looking like petty criminals"? - You are really tireless in your hateful crusade, aren't you? - Disgusting.


When individuals are economical with the truth what would you call it?


Bryan.
Posted By: Freycinet

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 12:07 PM

Eh, "market economy" maybe?
Posted By: Brealistic

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Tree
Originally Posted By: Freycinet
So, when Luthier and Oleg aren't "liars" or "thieves" they're now "looking like petty criminals"? - You are really tireless in your hateful crusade, aren't you? - Disgusting.


Frey I think only a fool would try and suggest that Oleg and Luthier have not been econmical with the truth during the development process, if they had spoke the pure truth none of us would be complaining because the game would work as suggested. A thief is a petty criminal so if your suggesting that when oleg and luthier aren't thieving they look like petty criminals well i cannot comment on this, ive never seen any images of russian thieves.

Frey i dont know why you keep coming in here it only upsets you, stay in the nice boys room. biggrin


I believe fry said he would rarely if ever come in here. It's another promise he didn't keep. whenpigsfly
Posted By: IV/JG7trumps

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 12:41 PM

If only they had marketed the game as a paid beta... We would all still have bought it, everyone would have been ready for the suprises, and I would bet that we would be a lot further advanced in the bug fixing department just for the fact that the whole community would have gotten behind it, instead of wasting half our time bickering like spoilt children!
I hope to hell 1C, and any other developers learn from this ballzup!
I have definately gotten my moneys worth out of this and have high hopes for the future, but there is no denying that it was and still is not all that it was cracked up to be.

Craig
Posted By: HogDriver

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 12:46 PM

I died a little inside watching those "dudes" play this.
Posted By: darkmouse

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:03 PM

Yeah, some don't like to hear the truth. That right now, on my fairly modest computer, CoD runs great, looks great and plays great. I have no problems getting online, sound has only ever cut out on me once, and the FM and DM are superb. So for me, its not a mess.

If you find it a mess, sucks to be you! neaner
Posted By: darkmouse

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:20 PM

Why can't you just accept that for loads of people this sim is providing lots of fun and is perfectly playable? As for fanboyism, whenever I have posted here I have pointed out or acknowledged that certain things don't work, or don't work properly.

You guys need to stop thinking that just because you are incapable of having fun in this sim that it must be the same for everyone. I acknowledge that plenty of people don't think it measures up to whatever standard they think it should be at. Fine, but rather than flinging #%&*$# at each other, why can't we just agree to disagree? Afterall, it will all be forgotten soon - I seen loads of people saying 'RoF is awesome by comparision!' - it is of course very good - but do they even remember the first year of its release?! It was far worse than CoD, with far less to do!

But so what, its come along nicely, and so will CoD.

Chill out.

ps. I really didn't mean to get drawn into another of these childish debates, but its just so difficult when people are screaming from the rooftops that CoD is 'broken beyond repair', which is manifestly untrue for a large section of the community, as evidenced by the many positive posts teeming with missions/skins/scripts/screenshots/videos etc.
Posted By: falstaff

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:37 PM

Chivas said:

Quote:
I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does.


I disagree. I do have a problem with it. Yes, you expect a certain amoutn of hype, exaggeration, and 'atmospheric lighting' in terms of description, but less than truthful has many shades and degrees - the worst of which is lying. Let's not beat around the bush with respect to language. There are all sorts of level of wilful and unwitting deception. Perhaps it was none of these - perhaps they just got carried away with self-belief, or perhaps there were elements of self-deception and hoping for the best. It happens, it doesn't have to be hugely pre-meditated.

But you'd think the wake-up call would have been heard by now. Ascribing degrees and levels of motive and a willingness to deceive is very difficult to show, much less to prove. Best not to go there.

Even better, not to have to go there in the first place. Lowered expectations would have helped this game immensely.

Quote:
I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.


That still doesn't make it right.

Quote:
The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim.


That doesn't make it right, either. Plus your casual buyer looking at the box may not have read much of the criticism.

Quote:
Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late.


You cannot seriously suggest the community just ignore - let's call it a disappointing amount of exaggeration - and then *still* support the game, even when various patches seem to indicate a sideways, rather than a forwards direction?

Quote:
I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.


But is it the same developer/s?

Seems to me new bodies have been drafted in and are probably wading thru the code-base trying to get to grips with it.

Quote:
You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.


You can't keep flagging up a Doomsday scenario to justify support for a half-finished product IMO. I appreciate your loyalty and yes, you are quite right to point out 10 years of good gaming, but things have changed, hugely. Not least the loss of Oleg (and maybe others?)

When we take away the emotive language, there are serious questions to answer in terms of how the thing ws portrayed - but not as important as *how* or *if* it will be put right. Depends whether you're prepared to subsidise in the meantime (I'm not...not yet anyway). It'snatural, people look back at what's happened as well as forwards to what *might* happen.

Ben
Posted By: Robusti

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: darkmouse
Why can't you just accept that for loads of people this sim is providing lots of fun and is perfectly playable? As for fanboyism, whenever I have posted here I have pointed out or acknowledged that certain things don't work, or don't work properly.

You guys need to stop thinking that just because you are incapable of having fun in this sim that it must be the same for everyone. I acknowledge that plenty of people don't think it measures up to whatever standard they think it should be at. Fine, but rather than flinging #%&*$# at each other, why can't we just agree to disagree? Afterall, it will all be forgotten soon - I seen loads of people saying 'RoF is awesome by comparision!' - it is of course very good - but do they even remember the first year of its release?! It was far worse than CoD, with far less to do!

But so what, its come along nicely, and so will CoD.

Chill out.

ps. I really didn't mean to get drawn into another of these childish debates, but its just so difficult when people are screaming from the rooftops that CoD is 'broken beyond repair', which is manifestly untrue for a large section of the community, as evidenced by the many positive posts teeming with missions/skins/scripts/screenshots/videos etc.


Firstly, you did say you had no problems ergo there are no problems. Secondly, I never said it was broken beyond repair. I said it was amess and it is. 1C acknowledges that it has many problems. It WAS release unfinished. Stop putting words in my mouth (a childish argument strategy) in order to bolster your untenable position that there is nothing wrong with CoD.
Posted By: darkmouse

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:47 PM

Bah, I give up. You are absolutely right Icarus.
Posted By: Herr_Kapitan

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Freycinet
Eh, "market economy" maybe?


Haha, very amusing but your evasiveness has been noted.


Bryan.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 04:32 PM

Helpful Topic Reminder: 'Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done'.
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: falstaff
Chivas said:

Quote:
I personally don't have a problem with the publisher being less than truthfull as I want COD to survive as much as the developer does.


I disagree. I do have a problem with it. Yes, you expect a certain amoutn of hype, exaggeration, and 'atmospheric lighting' in terms of description, but less than truthful has many shades and degrees - the worst of which is lying. Let's not beat around the bush with respect to language. There are all sorts of level of wilful and unwitting deception. Perhaps it was none of these - perhaps they just got carried away with self-belief, or perhaps there were elements of self-deception and hoping for the best. It happens, it doesn't have to be hugely pre-meditated.

But you'd think the wake-up call would have been heard by now. Ascribing degrees and levels of motive and a willingness to deceive is very difficult to show, much less to prove. Best not to go there.

Even better, not to have to go there in the first place. Lowered expectations would have helped this game immensely.

Quote:
I would be different if I felt the sim was going to be released and support pulled, but that is obviously not the case for the reasons I've mentioned above.


That still doesn't make it right.

Quote:
The people in the West have already been warned for four months on the condition of the sim.


That doesn't make it right, either. Plus your casual buyer looking at the box may not have read much of the criticism.

Quote:
Hopefully most will have enough common sense and foresight to see that their support is required now, not when the sim is finished a year from now. Supporting it later could be to late.


You cannot seriously suggest the community just ignore - let's call it a disappointing amount of exaggeration - and then *still* support the game, even when various patches seem to indicate a sideways, rather than a forwards direction?

Quote:
I certainly don't have a problem supporting a developer who has provided countless hours of cheap entertainment for the last ten years.


But is it the same developer/s?

Seems to me new bodies have been drafted in and are probably wading thru the code-base trying to get to grips with it.

Quote:
You can choose not to support it and drive away as many potential customers as you possibly can, but I'm not sure how that accomplishes anything worthwhile, other than putting out of business the only decent WW2 aircombat sim developers we have left.


You can't keep flagging up a Doomsday scenario to justify support for a half-finished product IMO. I appreciate your loyalty and yes, you are quite right to point out 10 years of good gaming, but things have changed, hugely. Not least the loss of Oleg (and maybe others?)

When we take away the emotive language, there are serious questions to answer in terms of how the thing ws portrayed - but not as important as *how* or *if* it will be put right. Depends whether you're prepared to subsidise in the meantime (I'm not...not yet anyway). It'snatural, people look back at what's happened as well as forwards to what *might* happen.

Ben


You see a developer that is being less than truthfull, releasing a crappy sim, and are not willing to support them now. Well I suggest there might be nothing to support later if everyone followed your advice.

I see a developer who was forced into releasing an unfinished product that has tons of potential trying to stay in business.

I can't support them enough as I would much prefer a scenario where they stay in business and provide me with another ten years of cheap entertainment. Its costing very little to make that investment and in the mean time I'm enjoying many aspects of sim. Especially the on-line play.
Posted By: Brealistic

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 06:41 PM

I see a developer that was cooking this product for six years and releases a half baked potato.

and no amount of sour cream will cover this up


I also see the man that was behind this scheme and that so many people sadly just adore running for the hills far before it's release.

me thinks this was a back burner project and that someone figured even in this state all the fanboys would still buy it.



Just my opinion
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Brealistic
I see a developer that was cooking this product for six years and releases a half baked potato.

and no amount of sour cream will cover this up


I also see the man that was behind this scheme and that so many people sadly just adore running for the hills far before it's release.

me thinks this was a back burner project and that someone figured even in this state all the fanboys would still buy it.



Just my opinion
`

You could be right, but the developer doesn't have that history, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure the developer would like to stay in business to complete the sim and many more addons, instead of looking for another job in this market.
Posted By: falstaff

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 07/27/11 09:13 PM

Sorry Fearless, I'll answer just one small point and then be done with the slightly OT stuff...

Chivas said:

Quote:
You see a developer that is being less than truthfull, releasing a crappy sim, and are not willing to support them now. Well I suggest there might be nothing to support later if everyone followed your advice.


No, I didn't say they were being less than truthful; I said I could see why there's that perception. Also, if you re-rear my post you'll see I go the other way and say that self-deception and hype is often unwitting. People want to believe things so badly, sometimes.

hence why I said 'best not to go there' i.e. giving motives and pre-meditation.

I dont ahgree with what you said, but nevertheless I was tryign to see how some of it could be supported. I'm not a conspiracy theorist - thoguh I do think the devs have questions to answer, with hindsight (I predicted all this before launch, it struck me as obvious they were in real trouble)

Ben
Posted By: Maverick1202

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 07:43 PM

All I know is that I have been spending a serious amount of time trying to get into MP and trying to get going after buyin the game last weekend. There are times no servers show up and my controls are mapped diferently from single player mode, etc... Not getting the frame rates in MP and I can barley fly. My system is not that antiquated! NOT HAPPY ABOUT SPENDING THE $50.00! I'll stay in 1946 for a while I guess and fly my MP there.
Posted By: Brealistic

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 08:34 PM


Half baked potatoes don't sit well in my belly.
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Brealistic

Half baked potatoes don't sit well in my belly.


So you don't like your steak medium-rare?
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 09:52 PM

The "forced to release an unfinished product" argument still seems a bit weird when you consider that the developer had six years before the publisher shoved it out the door.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
The "forced to release an unfinished product" argument still seems a bit weird when you consider that the developer had six years before the publisher shoved it out the door.


True, but they could have run out of money? That tends to focus the mind. smile
Posted By: Tell

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 10:28 PM

Also strange is the argument that if you buy it the developers will make the product better. There is no one to one relationship between your purchase and any funds received by the developer therefrom. Certainly there are some products a developer knows are unrecoverable and the bulk of any funds available will likely be shifted toward future and/or salvageable projects.
Posted By: Chivas

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 10:34 PM

You just have to look what the developer did with the original IL-2 thru IL-2 1946. The developer has the same plan with the new series.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Tell
Also strange is the argument that if you buy it the developers will make the product better. There is no one to one relationship between your purchase and any funds received by the developer therefrom. Certainly there are some products a developer knows are unrecoverable and the bulk of any funds available will likely be shifted toward future and/or salvageable projects.


Of course there is no guarantee, but the inverse of your argument that if no-one gave them money then it's probably more certain they would stop.

I guess it's possible they may decide to take all the money and start out in the tractor simulator business instead (it's crowded, there are two main players already) but it's just as likely that they'll do what they did with IL2 1946 and what Chivas points to.

Continuing on, slowly patching, occasionally coming out with paid extensions is less dramatic and tearful but it's probably what will happen, mainly because that's what they've always done.
Posted By: falstaff

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 11:14 PM

There are two problems with this. Firstly, it could be argued that they're starting form a much worse position than the first time round. Unknown - no expectations. Secondly, are they the same developer, in terms of personnel and leader/s?

Thirdly, we're back to the 'funding the future' issue - highly contentious, especially in light of previous advertising. A lot of people won't do it a)Because the product is broken, and b)Their confidence is shot after A. That includes a certain proportion of those who remember the first time round wiht great fondness and wish to give back something, but only up to a point.

But all this speculation is likely moot next to actual sales figures. Possibly all an exercise in wishful thinking. Maybe it will slowly plod on, and claw it's way back up to speed...but I think the overall situation is very different to previously. They're behind on where the product should be (since launch) and doubly behind because they may have have lost a lot of goodwill garned from the first series (where they came from nowhere, and the climate was very different). It's difficult, and how they handle the community will play a part, being a niche market.

Ben
Posted By: Tell

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 11:34 PM

Then there is the assumption or cliche that the current developer has the same staff, work ethic and business plan as the MG staff of ten years ago. A comfortable assumption but one major change that might give pause is the inability or unwillingness of the current team to interact with the community. That characteristic was also present in the run up to the COD release. This pattern is far removed from what we saw surrounding release of Il2 and FB. Of course one can assume that the old company structure still exists and then predict a brilliant future for COD. biggrin
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/02/11 11:42 PM

Ben - It's true it is probably a different set of people now, and I agree with you too Tell, in that not interacting with the community (like seems to be, er, not happening) isn't helping things.

The proof will be in the pudding I guess, as in the next patch is a very important one. If they go quiet but produce some better progress than we've seen already then that's ok with me, but if not, then I can understand why people would put this one away.
Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/03/11 12:28 AM

Strange how some people think that there is a completely new "dev" team "this time around". Luthier, the head of the project, has been around IL2 virtually since the name took off. For some of those that actually "own" the game, you can look at the credits section and compare those to the orignal. There's quite a few "same" people in there.

As far as the lack of communication goes, go to the russian forums. The devs speak there all the time. It's frustrating that we don't have Oleg talking to the english speaking people like before. I send server error logs all the time to Luthier and get replies back. They are working on it and I have no doubt that the "unfinished" (not broken) sim, will be a never ending WIP, exactly like the last one was.

The misinformation by some people is astounding.
Posted By: Tell

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/03/11 12:45 AM

Great news that the developers are communicating. Great news that the MG management team is intact and responsive to its customers.
TY
Posted By: Tell

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/03/11 01:42 AM

I seem to remember past instances in which individuals stated or implied special access to MG managers. I do believe that it should be stated clearly whether the individual is authorized to speak for the developer.:D
Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/03/11 01:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Tell
I seem to remember past instances in which individuals claimed to possess special access to MG managers. Of course they were bound to secrecy except for volunteering existence of their special access. biggrin


What does this have to do with anything? If you are trying to be sly and inferring that I do, then it's clear you don't read the official forums much. After the last patch luthier publicly handed out his email address telling those with MP servers to turn on data/error logging on servers and to send him the logs (aka help). I don't think it's uncommon to get a response back when you actually put the time in to help.

So again, what was the meaning of your post exactly? Or should I say, can you please tell me some of those "past instances" that you "remember"? I'd like to know who you are talking about or implying about.
Posted By: FearlessFrog

Re: Giant Bomb can't get into multiplayer. Well done, Maddox Games, well done. - 08/03/11 02:37 AM

Off track thread, my fault. Locked.
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