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Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors

Posted By: Ajay

Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/18/19 03:58 AM

Still no joy on getting my hands on the ugly RAF kit i want, only a 1/72 version of it in stock which is too small for my eyes let alone my fumbly fingers. I'm wanting to stay in the Pacific atm and decided to have a look at the Japanese offerings, tons of zeros and i nearly picked up a Rufe ( float plane version of the Zero) but decided on these two as i hardly know anything about them.

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I've always thought the Raiden was a bit of an ugly chunky little thing but it's growing on me, and the box art as seems usual for the time period is just too cool. Both kits are marked 1973 on the boxes but Tamiya seems to have slipped in updated decals as they are marked 2003. Very basic kits but at $18 each i couldn't pass them up and they should build up decently..and easily smile

So, first up i'll knock the Raiden (Jack) and then move onto Frank. Both of these give me a good excuse for plenty of weathering and i'm thinking about doing a crashed/beached/abandoned dio with the Frank. Look at the paint on this Raiden, disgustingly awesome.


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and a reference for how i hope to do the Frank. I was thinking of doing the Raiden like this but like i said, she is growing on me and i don't have the heart to destroy it.

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Captured Raiden compared to a spit and Hellcat.

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Some old timey nice and basic instructions (they include the same again but in Japanese)

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decals

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and a cool as colour sheet, got to love this.

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The detail is pretty decent for a cheap as chips kit.

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The canopy, very Batman.

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The cockpit area was a ten minute glue session, very basic and open. The kit includes two figures, this guy and one standing. I might sit this chap on the wing awaiting take off.

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A quick trial fit, the wings over and under lap so will need trimming and sanding to sit flush with the fuselage, i'm used to this now smile The rest is decent enough, just the usual fuselage seam sanding and small amount of putty.

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Wing sitting perfectly flush at the front, once they are on the fuselage i will decide which way to attack the trailing edges.

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The Japanese don't muck around when it comes to armoured glass apparently. Plenty of gaps at the rear that will be filled and i'll cut that radio into a semblance of a square shape and add some detail. The belts are painted up Tamiya tape.

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Old mate awaiting his ride.

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The Batpit. This canopy when lightly pressed down fits more snug and flush than nearly any of the other kits i have done so far. You can see where the rear of the wings meet the fuselage is off on both sides, blade work will be needed.

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Poor bugger looks like he having a bad day, maybe he's ground sick.

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Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/18/19 01:22 PM

Oooh, this is going to be good!

I'm amazed at how much improvement and detail are squeezed into kits by our SimHQ members - the red tip on the throttle lever wasn't missed by me.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/18/19 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dart
- the red tip on the throttle lever wasn't missed by me.


I think that's mixture....

exitstageleft
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/18/19 08:19 PM

Inscruitable Asians...why would anyone put mixture on the inside of throttle, towards the pilot?

Then again, the Italians had their throttles going the wrong way, so....
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/18/19 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dart
Inscruitable Asians...why would anyone put mixture on the inside of throttle, towards the pilot?

Then again, the Italians had their throttles going the wrong way, so....

So did the French.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/19/19 11:52 AM


Sanded the fuselage wing flare to meet the right wing trailing edge

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and sanded the underlap on the left wing to angle up and meet the flare so the tab didn't look out of place

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I don't know what it is with kits always needing filler here..

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Primed, a coat of black and silver and i've decided to give the hairspray method a second shot, man, that stuff stinks! Sprayed the whole thing with decanted hairspray (extra volume!) and then let it sit for an hour before spraying the final colour coats. Oh yeah, i cut the wingtip light sections out as well and will fill them with crystal clear, i've been dodging doing that on all of my previous kits so time to start making it a thing.

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Underside

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Topside. It seems i should have given it more than an hour as the vallejo, weirdly only the green, had a bit of a reaction with the hair spray so i'm hoping it all works in with the chipping

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I gave it another hour to let the acrylic settle and then using warm water (which will activate the hairspray ) a toothpick and my stippling brush i picked away around edges and rivets. Some chunks had come away with the tape so they will just have to work in with the rest of the effect.

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This shot shows the reaction the paint had with the hairspray.

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Still to do the anti glare stripe in front of the canopy which should break up the green nicely as well as the yellow leading edges which will finish off the paint side of it. Once it has sat overnight i can clean up all of the loose paint and gunk sitting on it atm, smooth down the whole paint job, and get a better idea of where it sits.

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Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/19/19 01:18 PM


Who am i kidding, the paint is dry enough and the night is young. Mixed up some IJN green/IJN black green and straight black and hit the nose up.


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I'm half looking forward to painting those exhaust stubs for added detail and half worried about getting paint in the wrong spots and making a mess of it. I'm really starting to like the look of this stubby little fighter though.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/19/19 07:42 PM

Starting to run out of adjectives in praising the work.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/19/19 09:11 PM

well done
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/21/19 06:52 AM

Thanks chaps.

One cool thing i have found out during this build was when i was looking for the correct wheel well colours and stumbled on the 'Aotake colour' debate. I'll copy and paste this here to explain it..

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As a translucent primer coating the stuff was applied during many different stages of an aircraft's production, at the main factories and among the many smaller subcontractors that were employed to manufacture parts. A piece of aluminum stock would be stamped, then coated with a layer of Aotake to prevent flash corrosion. Then that part would be drilled and cut, then given another coat of Aotake. After that part was riveted into place within the air frame it would be coated a third time or more. The procedure was generally to ensure that no bare metal was exposed to the air for any length of time. Then, in some areas of the aircraft, a matte black coat of paint was often applied - as a further measure of protection or to cut down on the glare of the glossy Aotake, it's not known. It's generally accepted that there were two main variations of Aotake: a blue and a green (though other shades including yellow have been encountered). Some have suggested a number of different means to predict the application of either variant - time frame, manufacturer, or other. In reality both blue and green could be expected to be seen in any random aircraft regardless of manufacturer or time frame


So you end up with these types of colours, these samples are both parts of the main wing spar of the same Zero.

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Luckily i had clear blue and clear green Tamiyas on the shelf so after a bit of mucking around with mixes ended up with this. The pic is fairly crap as the blue comes through more, appears the translucency seems to throw the colours off a bit.

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In the end it is neither here nor there when we are talking about some dudes model plane sitting on a shelf gathering dust but it is an interesting tidbit.


Leading edges yellowed and ready for it's clean up before the clear coating.

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Posted By: bolox

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/21/19 01:48 PM

Aotoke debate always seemed to be v. similar to the 'zinc chromate' debate to me

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/21/19 10:22 PM

I can attest from personal experience that the color of things like zinc-chromate can be greatly different based on how thickly it is applied.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/22/19 01:57 AM

Zinc chromate, rlm, aotake and raf cockpit green. I'm sure if we had time travel modellers would be first in line to get paint chips, and then still disagree. Some of the threads are an entertaining read though biggrin
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/22/19 02:27 PM

Decals and a thin dark oil wash on, she looks terrible with the shiny clear coat on and i can't wait to flatten it out once i have washed the underside. The decals needed a lot of decal solution, very thick and resistant to settling in the panel lines but came good after a couple of hours. I took some fine grit sand paper to them to knock back the shine and scuff them up a bit with mixed results. I need to look into decal masks so i can just paint my own and have them new or faded, chipped etc.

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Those big meatballs huh smile
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/22/19 02:49 PM

Sweet!
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/22/19 02:58 PM

I really like the way you weathered the left wing root where the pilot and maintenance people would have been stepping. Very good.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/22/19 07:28 PM

Nice
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/24/19 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I really like the way you weathered the left wing root where the pilot and maintenance people would have been stepping. Very good.


I concur!

As to color debates, it sounds like WWII model makers have the same ones as WWI guys with PC-10 (British brown/green) and Clear Dope Linen.

smile
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 08:02 AM

I had a mess of a time with the cockpit, ran out of Tamiya tape so i used some painters tape that i hoped would do the job. Yes and no smile The cleanup from leakage was bad enough but it also pulled up the edge of the paint so i ended up having to knock some of it of and then free handed over it, then clean it up as best i could. Pretty rough but good enough i decided after i had sunk a couple of sessions on it. Trial fitting said canopy, she was a bit off but with some angled pressure i found i could make it fit neatly. Of course when i applied glue to the cockpit frame on the plane it skewed a fraction and i could not find the sweet spot that i had moments ago before it had set. I used superglue in tiny dabs as i find i can use smaller amounts and have less chance of making a mess of the glass or canopy frame. So, she's a bit out of whack as well as having a rough paint job.

Lastly, i just could not get that shot i wanted, normally you can get that one, two or even three shots that you really like and feel they show the lines well. No joy this time so i threw it in after about 80 photos, inside under lights, outside in the sun and with two different phone cameras using pro and normal modes. Anyway, after that whine fest biggrin she's a nice little kit and turned out decently for a first time hairspray job. I know now at least that i can achieve the same effect with about half the amount of the hairspray and have better control of my chipping.


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Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 11:32 AM

Very nice work Ajay I always enjoy reading your threads and watching the progress..Thanks for posting them
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 11:53 AM

Man, another good one. You have the talent, that’s for sure !
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 01:10 PM

You're cranking them out one better than the next. Very great job, and also the photography now does the model justice smile
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by rwatson
Very nice work Ajay I always enjoy reading your threads and watching the progress..Thanks for posting them


Thanks mate smile I enjoy posting them as well and appreciate everyone who comments.

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Man, another good one. You have the talent, that’s for sure !


Thanks Grog, i still always find something that gives me a challenge though. That cockpit man smile

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st
You're cranking them out one better than the next. Very great job, and also the photography now does the model justice smile


I want to ask my Father in Law if i could use his DSLR but he runs hot and cold so i need to find one of his good days lol. Cheers Colonel.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 02:21 PM

To be Frank wink the modern cellphones are not much worse for such a job.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 07:11 PM

Wow, Just Super
Posted By: trindade

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/27/19 09:55 PM

Beautiful job! thumbsup
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/28/19 11:15 PM

Thanks guys, moving onto the Frank now. She has only two really basic sprues and it seems an even more basic kit. The cockpit is a seat, a base..and that's it! The instrument cluster decal just goes straight onto a fueslage mould biggrin
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/29/19 11:55 AM

Ok, let's roll number two. Some more cool artwork.

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Decals, unsure if they are actually 1972 vintage or just have not been updated since then.

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Instructions, man you would have knocked this out in day when you were a kid!

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The cockpit was ..well, not much. As usual, you will see nearly nothing anyway.

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A most exciting engine

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This is the complete kit

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And now onto the fun stuff. I decided i would give panel lines, riveting and stressed skin a crack. These old kits tend to have raised panel lines which i first noticed in the Raiden but wasn't too fussed about.

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So it's sand off the raised lines and replace with sunken ones. Having no fancy panel line scriber i had watched a vid a while back where a guy uses a pin and a mechanical pencil, i substituted the pencil for my pin vice and voila, a scriber. Luckily i also still have a few rolls of panel tape from my old job which will comes in handy as a guide.

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My first attempt and i had a few lines out of whack so putty and attempt two.

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Once the scribing is done comes the real fun. To mimic the stressed skin look i need to create a U shaped groove along the center of the panel lines, sand the grooves smooth with some rolled fine sandpaper and then get in there and polish the groove..and then redo the panel lines (lightly) and the rivets. I'm using a curved blade for the groove making (but stupidly enough bought the wrong size blades for my knife so i need to remedy that tomorrow) and just scraping away the plastic. By the time it is sanded and then polished it should be nice and random and not just a bunch of weird looking grooves. That's the plan anyway.


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For anyone unsure about the whole stressed skin thing, here's a Ki84 with stressed fuselage skin.

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and this guys tutorial site that breaks down the process really well and made me decide i needed to give it a go.

Reproducing stressed skin

Some serious next level modelling done by those guys.



Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 10/31/19 01:37 PM

Could be looking at a potential disaster here, we'll see how it ends up. I blew a (thick) coat of primer to see how it was travelling last night as to the naked eye unprimed it looked roughish and still needing work but not too terrible. With the primer it showed how absolutely trash it was My idea for using my small drill bits for the rivets was bad as well. I need one of those rosie riveter gadgets.


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Puttied it up and left it overnight to dry.

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Sanding, sanding, sanding. Little rolls of 600, 800 and 1000 wet and dry and it's looking and feeling better.

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Moved on to the other wing to get a break from working the one side.

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Not looking too bad so far, it's all going to be down to patient sanding, at least the weather is gorgeous outside where i have doing my arvo sessions and the neighbours insufferable barking dog has gone oddly quiet over the last three days.
Posted By: mdwa

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/01/19 04:09 PM

What happened to the dog?
Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/01/19 04:54 PM

Ajay might have strafed him with one of his kits
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/02/19 01:26 AM

Lol, if anything strafe the dog owners smile Looks like they must be on holidays which is good, i need the break. They have a rottweiler that's about a year old that barks at every tiny noise and haven't trained it and barely do anything except shout at it from inside, whilst it jumps at their back door screen wanting attention.

The neighbours behind have three big dogs that they keep quiet except for when they are out then they can raise hell. Then on my right side the old couples old Ladrador died so they got a new pup, another big dog that barked enough that the council turned up so they use a bark collar now. Some days and especially nights the constant barking can just do your head in. We've had to ring thr council in the last six months on wandering dogs without collars turning up in our dead end circuit. People man.

I've got to fix the rear fence today because the three dogs behind broke a slat and keep poking their heads through the fence and barking and carrying on.
Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/02/19 06:58 AM

Man I hate fools like that my Pup is a buddy to all in my small town Mini Doberman,,I agree strafe the owners ,,,People like that make my blood boil..My pup is my kid and has great manners better than mine
Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/02/19 02:38 PM

Hi Ajay, I've been following from afar whilst on holiday. Cracking work, you've nailed that Raiden, one out of the top drawer.

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As to color debates, it sounds like WWII model makers have the same ones as WWI guys with PC-10 (British brown/green) and Clear Dope Linen.


Try having an interest in Argentinian aircraft during the Falklands War...
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/02/19 03:08 PM

Thanks mate, hope you're enjoying yourself! I'm also yet to post it on iModeler where someone will tell me my colours are a mile off wink


Hopefully finished the wing today, a prime tomorrow will show if i have but she looks ok after another prime, putty and sanding session. Started the rear half of the fuselage, more of the same and have it at the prime stage so i can see where i'm at.

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Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/02/19 04:12 PM

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someone will tell me my colours are a mile off


The same people who never post any of their work, if they build anything at all. As my grandad used to ssay "All mouth and no trousers..."
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/03/19 01:39 PM

Jezum Crow, I guess we all know who's going to get the blue ribbon at the County Fair for Best Model Airplane.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/06/19 02:25 AM

Not much in the way of model shows where i am unfortunately. I'd like to go to one and see what peeps are up to locally versus world wide.

I'm waiting on my riveter to arrive so i can move forward with this build.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/10/19 07:59 AM

Rosie turned up! Riveting ended up being a fun experience, put a doco on in the background as usual and riveted away. This week it's from the stone age through the copper and to the bronze in Britain, interesting stuff. I wish my riveting was half as skillful as what those ancient peeps were capable of biggrin

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That wing gap. More filler, sanding, redo some of the rivets and i'll finally be ready for a proper primer coat.
Posted By: mdwa

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/10/19 11:37 AM

Do you heat up Rosie the Riveter or it just punctures the small holes in the plastic not heated?
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/10/19 07:15 PM

Looks really nice!

Wondering - historically, where rivets actually recessed, or actually slightly protruding?
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/11/19 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st
Looks really nice!

Wondering - historically, where rivets actually recessed, or actually slightly protruding?


Flush and protruding. The Spitfire had both, flush where aerodynamics required, protruding where not.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/11/19 08:56 PM

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds like a woman that I dated.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/12/19 12:30 AM

LOL Carrick.

I was asking because it's interesting how the eye can be nicely tricked by a hole where a head might be. Okay, that sounds a bit wrong... :P
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/12/19 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by mdwa
Do you heat up Rosie the Riveter or it just punctures the small holes in the plastic not heated?


Just run her nice and slowly over the surface with a bit of pressure.

Sounds like the lads in this thread need to relieve some wink
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/13/19 01:07 PM

Bit of progress. Black undercoat, silver, hairspray, splotchy dark green undercoat for some colour variation and then the top coat. It's hard to capture the stressed skin effect i was attempting but you can see it at certain angles if the light captures it right. Of course anything slightly dodgy stands out like dogs gonads, especially once the silver was laid down. The marianas trench on the left wing scares me. I'm thinking (hoping) the chipping will hide those areas fairly nicely.

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I started chipping outside watching the 24/7 fire updates as the smoke from the fires drifted overhead but the wind was gusting so intensely i had to move it all back inside. We are about 80 k's from the closest big fire at Noosa on the Sunny coast so no issues here but that wind must have made it hard for the firies today. I don't know if the fires made the news where you guys all are but it's been a hectic week over here for many, this summer is going to be an absolute scorcher.

Half done. The rivets and panel lines have really made a difference detail wise compared to the Raiden although the fuselage work i have done reminds more of a fabric covered skin than the stressed metal look i was going for though. Makes me think of the rear section of a Hurricane or Gladiator.

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The decals are going to stand out far too much so i'm going to paint those, well at least the white square section and then possibly use some of the meatball decals without the white backing, undecided. I need a circle template to be able to paint them decently. The shiny sections on the wings and fuselage is hairspray in prep for the squares to be painted.

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Close up you can see the variation in the green a lot better. I'm still to give the whole plane a light sand over with some 2000+ grit to smooth it all out and remove all of the leftover chipped paint sticking everywhere.

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Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/13/19 03:00 PM

Looking great Ajay.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/15/19 02:49 AM

White down, it looks thicker than what it is due to the lighting, the white is actually just on the verge of see through. I'm in the process of testing my tape made paint masks for the meatballs.

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I had to widen the one on the right wing another couple of mm as my 'do it by eyeball' widths were out.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/15/19 01:52 PM

Tail painted

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The meatballs are a major wip atm. the first ones i painted were too small and one was off centre so i had to make a larger mask and repaint. Unfortunately the original ones stood out through the repaint, despite chipping and weathering to try and blend it all, so another light repaint was in order. The stage i am at now is a bit off a mess tbh. I've used a thinned down mix of red with a touch of black, hand painted the panel lines and then splotched it around a bit to vary the colour. Once that is fully cured i will sand them out a bit to knock back the panel line darkness and smooth the colours together. The red had also bled into the white when i introduced water whilst chipping so i've touched that all up with a thinned out white respray as well. Proper masks would have made all of this null and void but i'm a cheap skate... so it is what is. I'm not even mentioning the semi disaster i have going on with the top of the fuselage stripe.

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Posted By: malibu43

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/15/19 03:32 PM

Looks good Ajay. I'm sure you'll find a way to fix the "semi disaster" so you can't tell it was ever there, since that's what you usually seem to do!
Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/15/19 04:25 PM

Looks good Ajay you not only build great planes but do a great job of presenting them..
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/17/19 01:42 AM

.


Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/17/19 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by malibu43
Looks good Ajay. I'm sure you'll find a way to fix the "semi disaster" so you can't tell it was ever there, since that's what you usually seem to do!


Story of my life ha!


Originally Posted by rwatson
Looks good Ajay you not only build great planes but do a great job of presenting them..


Thanks man smile
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/20/19 12:29 PM

Finished the meatball masks, never again lol. Next time i am shelling out for a mask kit, or at least a compass, and not being such a cheap skate. I ended up making six in total for the two different sizes, fuselage being smaller than the wings, and used the two that resembled a circle the most.

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Weathered the absolute guts out of them...

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Bad quality pic but the only one i have of this stage. I cleared it for the decals before i realised i had not done the leading wing edge yellow/orange so had to whack up a quick mix, paint the edges, leave it overnight to dry, weather them and then clear it. The decals stand out like crazy but i was hoping i could knock them back enough to match the rest.

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Weathering taking shape on the underside.

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The gun sight came with no reflector so i carved a small piece out of a battery packet as it just seemed lazy not too add something.

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All that wing work has resulted in, well, not a lot really but in sections there is a hint of the stressed metal look i was attempting. It does add visual interest when seen in the flesh, hoping i can get some good pics when she is complete.

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The rear top fuselage section i've touched up as much as i dare, mostly to bring the aluminium colour back as the black base was showing through so much. The earlier sprayed meatballs on the top wing are still popping through the new larger ones despite my attempts at fixes so i'm calling them a field repaint.

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Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/22/19 03:06 AM

Looking really good.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 11:25 AM

Photoshoot time..or so i thought. Just completed my first antenna wire and then about 30 odd pics in and i realised i had forgotten to glue the wing cannons on. Doh! They are still sticking out of the blu tac about four pictures up.


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Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 12:36 PM

The skill and craftsmanship is really impressive.... and then I'm reminded what scale you're building in / how small all the parts are and the admiration goes up an order of magnitude.

Bravo!!
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 12:46 PM

I’ll echo F4U.

I’ve seen museum displays that weren’t as good.
Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 05:16 PM

One out of the top drawer Ajay. The stressed skin effect is brilliant. As with many 'effects' at scaled sizes you just need to give a hint; to simulate, not replicate. (I love the rabbit / hare on the cowl. I have some projects planned purely because of the nose / squadron art having a greyhound included.) Get those cannon fitted and show us more. smile
Posted By: BD-123

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by goon
One out of the top drawer Ajay. The stressed skin effect is brilliant. As with many 'effects' at scaled sizes you just need to give a hint; to simulate, not replicate. (I love the rabbit / hare on the cowl. I have some projects planned purely because of the nose / squadron art having a greyhound included.) Get those cannon fitted and show us more. smile


You have Greyhounds goon?
Meet one of mine, could be a model for nose-art showing all the elegance and dynamism of the breed

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Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/24/19 10:05 PM

Good looking Pup there BD..just got a new pup myself a mini doberman ,,big change from an 80 pound yellow lab..Names Iggy and she will tear up you ankles if you mess with me
Posted By: wheelsup_cavu

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 05:18 AM

Great looking builds Ajay. thumbsup

As for a J2M there is only one left in the world
and I get to see it on a weekly basis if I want...

Here is a nice write up on the Raiden/Jack.
The Survivors: Mitsubishi J2M Raiden – The Last Japanese Thunderbolt: https://acesflyinghigh.wordpress.co...2m-raiden-the-last-japanese-thunderbolt/

Internet Archive version of the article: https://web.archive.org/save/https:...2m-raiden-the-last-japanese-thunderbolt/


Wheels
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 11:32 AM

Half your luck Wheels! I've seen that one pop up on a few sites in through my build...and of course the many modeller discussions about its markings and colours biggrin Great looking plane the Jack, i really came to like it during my build, the Ki84 not so much.


BD, that dog looks like it has had a hard night lol!


Completed shots.

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and the two together, i call them Laurel and Hardy smile

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Couple of issues you may not notice on a first waltz through the pics-

The front of the canopy would not seal down tight on the nose, something i should have sorted pre paint stage, same with the rear section that sits proud.

The middle section of the canopy doesn't line up with anything biggrin so i left it unglued and just sat it where needed for the shots. For display i will have to glue it open otherwise i will definitely lose it. There is also a nasty blade slice on the left side of the middle canopy that may not have been seen, once you see it you won't miss it!

The nose 24 decal, you'll need to look at that again as well. The first 24 i placed went to pieces when i inadvertently placed tape over it when doing the wing leading edge yellow, i tried joining the pieces back but it was about as fun as drifting onto some trees in a plane with no fuel wink I had to place the remaining 24 decal over the remnants of the trashed one and then weather it and blend it in...but you can see i got it a smidge out and the original peeks through at the top of the 2. I think the doubling up of the decal there also didn't help with the semi glaring clear section of the decal that appears thick. I should have trimmed the numbers out in hindsight.

The wing lamp lens area needed more attention but by the time i started looking at it seriously i had already painted and was in..that's good enough mode. It did get some trimming and sanding and i was just happy it ended up sitting as flush as it is. Still, both really decent kits for such a cheap price and any headaches were mostly of my own making. Really chuffed with how both of them have turned out. Thanks once again for all the appreciation guys, it's been a cool couple of builds.


Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 12:01 PM

Outstanding work Ajay and got to say reading your posts was very enjoyable for me,,, M8 you are light years away from the modeling I did as as a young pup..
Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 12:39 PM

We've had a couple of lurchers BD. Ali was a collie / greyhound cross we had until 2006. Ted was saluki / grey / deerhound cross. He died almost a year ago, at 14 or 15 years of age. He used to keep me company down in the shed, and get in the way a bit!

No chance of getting to the sprayboothh when he was down here. He was a big lad.
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And something of an athlete in his day.
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He also had a variety of poses similar to yours when sleeping, and a wayward tongue. We miss him a lot, and we've just started looking for his successor. Although is has been nice being able to sit on the sofa as and when I want to!
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by rwatson
Outstanding work Ajay and got to say reading your posts was very enjoyable for me,,, M8 you are light years away from the modeling I did as as a young pup..



Thanks mate. I don't think i would want to see what one of my kits as a kid looked like now. No patience back then, but they were still fun to do.


Goon, there is some weird looking dude in your shed! In all seriousness though, that bottom pic is a fantastically good shot.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 03:36 PM

Love the skin effect on that one, and the weathering in general. Even though, heavy as it is, it kind of screams for a diorama (plane forgotten in a shed or something...)

Even more amazing given the size comparison with the glasses.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 04:27 PM

I would be remiss in not complimenting you not just on the superior model making skills, but the photography.

Simply expert.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/25/19 11:41 PM

Wow. Just Super.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 12:44 AM

Thanks guys, i swear my next kit is going to clean and simple!
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 12:55 AM

I’d love to see you do this one.

https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=123
Posted By: adlabs6

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 04:45 AM

Really nice work on these builds, Ajay. Thanks for posting the logs, they are fun to follow.
Posted By: goon

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 08:13 AM

Thanks Ajay, he was a handsome lad. (Apologies for slightly derailing your thread.)

That 1/24 DR.1 is stunning, lots of extra work involved. Fancy rigging something Ajay?!
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard


I've looked at a few WWI jobs, some beautiful aircraft. I'll be dipping my toes in the water next year.


Originally Posted by adlabs6
Really nice work on these builds, Ajay. Thanks for posting the logs, they are fun to follow.


Cheers mate smile

Originally Posted by goon
Thanks Ajay, he was a handsome lad. (Apologies for slightly derailing your thread.)

That 1/24 DR.1 is stunning, lots of extra work involved. Fancy rigging something Ajay?!


Derail away Goon, it ain't modelling without sone sort of hairy animal hanging around.

Regards WWI stuff, 've been poking around looking at builds and kits and will be biting the bullet on one next year. A bit intimidating but they look gorgeous.
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 11:55 AM

cheers :

Superb as usual.

A question tho. What units are the a/c from?
: :
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 12:47 PM

I think those two are Japanese.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I think those two are Japanese.


LOL biggrin
Posted By: rwatson

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I think those two are Japanese.


Good call OG..LOL
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I think those two are Japanese.

You sure?
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/26/19 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
cheers :

Superb as usual.

A question tho. What units are the a/c from?
: :


The Jack is Lt. Sadaaki Akamatsu's of 302 Flying Group out of Atsugi Air Base from March '44 until August '45.

Wiki info
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The Imperial Japanese Navy constructed the base in 1938 to house the 302nd Kokutai, one of the Navy's most formidable fighter squadrons during World War II. Aircraft based at Atsugi shot down more than 300 American bombers during the firebombings of 1945.[citation needed] After Japan's surrender, many of Atsugi's pilots refused to follow Hirohito's order to lay down their arms, and took to the skies to drop leaflets on Tokyo and Yokohama urging locals to resist the Americans. Eventually, these pilots gave up and left Atsugi.

General Douglas MacArthur arrived at Atsugi on 30 August to accept Japan's surrender.


The Frank is Staff Sergeant Joten Naito of the Kurai Unit of the 502nd Temporary Interception Corps flying out of Nakatsu Airfield from March to May '45.

Naitos aircraft also has no center bar on the front cockpit canopy, it's there but you just don't paint it smile


Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/27/19 12:24 AM

I don’t buy the 300 bombers claim. That means the rest of Japans air defenses destroyed almost none.
Posted By: Nixer

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/27/19 12:26 AM

Imagine being a 17 to 18 yr old kid. You get a few hours basic flight training and you get one of these monsters to "fly and kill the gaijin!" Same for the German kids..."save the fatherland".

Just talking about the "Oh FRAC" factor, not the right/wrong or the politics of it the war.

Awesome models man. Seriously.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/27/19 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I don’t buy the 300 bombers claim. That means the rest of Japans air defenses destroyed almost none.



No idea myself, my old man used to have a couple of fantastic in depth books about the fire bombing of Japan i read as a teen and i've never been able to find out whay they were. They would have been at least '70's publications, and have probably been surpassed by now anyway. I reckon we could dig out some pretty good stats from the net.


Originally Posted by Nixer
Imagine being a 17 to 18 yr old kid. You get a few hours basic flight training and you get one of these monsters to "fly and kill the gaijin!" Same for the German kids..."save the fatherland".

Just talking about the "Oh FRAC" factor, not the right/wrong or the politics of it the war.

Awesome models man. Seriously.


Yeah um, thanks but no thanks, i'll tend my farm out in the wilderness, sir biggrin
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/27/19 12:09 PM

Here is a quick check.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan


5th Air Force:
31 aircraft

7th Air Force:
12 aircraft

VII Fighter Command:
157 aircraft
91 killed

20th Air Force: 414 aircraft
over 2,600 killed[2]

“ The Twentieth Air Force lost 414 B-29s during attacks on Japan. Over 2,600 American bomber crew members were killed, including POWs who died in captivity, and a further 433 were wounded.[2]”



“Overall, Japanese fighters shot down 74 B-29s, anti-aircraft guns accounted for a further 54, and 19 were downed by a combination of anti-aircraft guns and fighters. IJAAF and IJN losses during the defense of Japan were 1,450 aircraft in combat and another 2,750 to other causes.[215]”



There seems to be a crossover between the figures shot down and lost. The lost includes all losses (I.e. accidents, navigation, etc).
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/27/19 03:34 PM

Quote
The Frank is Staff Sergeant Joten Naito of the Kurai Unit of the 502nd Temporary Interception Corps flying out of Nakatsu Airfield from March to May '45.


Thanks Ajay. I think that the unit should be the 520th.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/28/19 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Here is a quick check.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan


5th Air Force:
31 aircraft

7th Air Force:
12 aircraft

VII Fighter Command:
157 aircraft
91 killed

20th Air Force: 414 aircraft
over 2,600 killed[2]

“ The Twentieth Air Force lost 414 B-29s during attacks on Japan. Over 2,600 American bomber crew members were killed, including POWs who died in captivity, and a further 433 were wounded.[2]”



“Overall, Japanese fighters shot down 74 B-29s, anti-aircraft guns accounted for a further 54, and 19 were downed by a combination of anti-aircraft guns and fighters. IJAAF and IJN losses during the defense of Japan were 1,450 aircraft in combat and another 2,750 to other causes.[215]”



There seems to be a crossover between the figures shot down and lost. The lost includes all losses (I.e. accidents, navigation, etc).


So (the 20th)147 lost directly to AA or fighters out of 414 losses total. Thats 267 to mishaps/accidents and navigation losses/ditchings if i'm reading it correctly?
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/28/19 11:42 AM

Army Air Force Statistical Digest: World War II
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a542518.pdf (takes time to load)

See Table 165 for losses and Table 166 for claims. This is for the XX and XXI Air forces.

There is also a US Navy SD.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/30/19 12:01 AM

As always, one can take claimed air victories with a grain of salt; even with gun camera footage, kills are often over stated.

This is acceptable, as it hurts nobody to allow over-counting and improves morale....something the Japanese were sorely in need of.
Posted By: Lasstmichdurch

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 11/30/19 07:55 PM

Kruzifix, luja sog i... eek
German/bayrisch for wtf... absolute stunning work! smile2
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Jack and Frank, the Japanese interceptors - 12/01/19 08:02 AM

Thanks mate! Glad you translated because google translate can't smile
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