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FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ?

Posted By: Haukka81

FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/13/13 04:05 PM

Hi, maybe dcs shark and huey is spoiled it or time ?? but i remeber that flight model was better in eech when i first flyed it 2000.



Any way to get bit better flight model, now it feels like ufo. No sense of mass or inertia.. was it always like this..?


Im using option 2 in 1.15 Ini, arnes flight model?

Feels so easy, in wrong way.


-haukka81
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/13/13 04:46 PM

of course it's far away from dcs. I really miss this sense of restrictions - you make safe maneuver and still not sure that you will not fall down or lose several rotor blades. default dynamics even worse in this context. to make it better someone have to spend some free time =)
Posted By: wingman1387

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 05:33 PM

Most here would probably disagree with me, however I find when flying blue helicopters that Arneh model feels too nimble for a fully loaded combat aircraft. I completely respect his work, most of what he's done is absolutely amazing, but I normally prefer the default "0" model for that "heavy" feeling.

You could try that model, just to see of it makes a difference. Also, make sure you don't have the "UFO" flight model selected in the eech.ini (it's a separate selection that is easy to miss)
Posted By:

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 05:48 PM

+1 flight model is very good.Probably he has shi tty eech.ini but if he can not understand eech.ini let him return to the DCS wink
Posted By: kaboom

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 06:27 PM

With a normal load an AH-64 can pull 3.4Gs so at the speeds we tend to maneuver at I think the model is pretty close except for pedal turns and side-slipping which are way bad but I've tweaked the ini enough to make it acceptable. At least the horrific and ridiculous VRS of LB2 is not present, it's the one flight model area in LB2 that is SO far off the mark it's embarrassing. VRS is easy to deal with as long as you recognize what's going on.
Posted By:

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 06:56 PM

Apache in the real is a very easy to drive.
As in any game you have to spend 2-3 hours a configuration setting.But better enter and complain in a few threads that this is a UFO FM.
This is not for you kaboom wink
Posted By: Haukka81

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: joe13
+1 flight model is very good.Probably he has shi tty eech.ini but if he can not understand eech.ini let him return to the DCS wink



You can't be serious..

My eech.ini is fine, flight model is getting old. Fanboy hat wont remove that fact.

Flight Physics are weird, very scripted. Not so dynamic that i would like.

I fly eech because i like dynamic campaings. DCS is good simulation but there is no game in there wink

I can live with flight model, its ok for its age but there really is room for improve it.



-haukka81


Ps. Here is my INI.


[Commandline options]
# for more information see readme file in game directory
# for more information see http://www.eechcentral.com/wiki/index.php?title=Eech.ini

[Communications]
maxplayers=4 # maximum number of players in a multiplayer game (def = 4)
ipa= # IP address (TCP/IP address) to connect to. A host can leave out the value.
usemaster=1 # Report game to internet masterserver (0 = off/private game, 1 = on) (def = 0) (recommended = 1)
pss=hoxdna.org # primary masterserver internet address (def = hoxdna.org)
sss=eech.dhs.org # secondary masterserver internet address (def = eech.dhs.org)
ccrs=215040 # connection receive size, initial guess of campaign data size (def = 215040)
cdrs=215040 # data record size, similar to above (def = 215040)
cpbs=215040 # pack buffer size, similar to above (def = 215040)
cpds=512 # packet data size (def = 512)
cgs=1 # force the comms to use DirectPlay guaranteed send instead of its own (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
crls=1000 # packet history list size, increase if client keeps getting kicked out by server (default = 1000)
crl=10 # number of times a client can re-request the same packet, increase for poor connections (def = 10)
cpt=5.0 # time delay for comms to wait for a packet before re-requesting it (n = seconds) (def = 5)
crto=2.0 # time delay for comms to wait before assuming re-requested packets was lost (n = seconds) (def = 2)
mur=15 # max update framerate for a server (not available for client) (n = frames/second) (TCP/IP = 5, IPX = 15) (def = 5)
cig=1 # interpolate helicopter position for smoother visuals (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
cvc=1 # removes dead player husks when client crashes to validate connection (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
cptl=10 # packet throttle limit, governs the flow rate of packets (mainly for modems) (def = 10)
cto=15 # timeout time before removing dead player husks (def = 15)
eufr=2 # client server entity update framerate, number of iterations (def = 2)
css=0 # show comms stats (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
cist=500 # comms initial sleep time (def = 500)
servlog= # filename for server log

[Dedicated server]
# for more information see http://www.eechcentral.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dedicated_server
dedicated=0 # dedicated server mode (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
pauseserv=0 # pause server if no clients connected (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
game_type=0 # available game types (1 = Freeflight, 2 = Campaign, 3 = Skirmish) (def = 0)
gunship_type=8 # available gunship types (0 = Apache, 1 = Havoc, 2 = Comanche, 3 = Hokum, ...)
path= # path to map/campaign/skirmish folder

[Graphics and Textures]
cbar=1500.0 # distance that city blocks resolve (n = meters) (def = 500)
fs=1 # full screen mode (0 = window mode, 1 = full screen mode) (def = 1)
mfr=50 # maximum visual frame rate (n = frame rate) (def = 30)
32bit=1 # 32-bit rendering (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
nrt=0 # rendering to texture (0 = enabled, 1 = disabled) (def = 0) (disable in case of visual problems with MFDs or TADS)
notnl=0 # GeForce "TnL" support (0 = enabled, 1 = disabled) (def = 0)
nodx9zbufferfix=0 # Disable the dx9 zbuffer fix introduced in 1.11.1. In case it causes graphical problems
3dreset=0 # reset screen resolution to 640x480 (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
dxtm=0 # DirectX texture management (should fix "unable to allocate hardware slot" error) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
cg=0 # (clean graphics) re-installs graphics files (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
palette=1 # use textures.pal (if videocard supports it) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
eofullrange=1 # eo ranges near to max fog distance (and objects are drawn up to it) 1=yes 0=no
render-tree-shadows=1 # 1=yes 0=no
trees-fog=2 # fog affects groups of trees (0 = off, 1 = on, 2 = auto off if fps less then 20, on if fps more then 30 )

high_lod_hack=1 # [EXPERIMENTAL!] Enables highest level-of-detail models at far distances. Nice for higher FOVs, bad for FPS (esp. near cities)
dwash=1 # rotor downwash (dust) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
restricted_nvg_fov=1 # night vision restriction (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
russian_nvg_no_ir=0 # russian night vision has no FLIR (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
colourmfd=1 # MFDs will use colour when available (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
highreshud=1 # high resolution HUD (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
tsdrender=1 # TSD render options (0 - 4) (def = 0 (contours only))
tsdpalette=3 # TSD palette options (0 - 2) (def = 0)
tsdenemy=0 # TSD showing red force blue force colours (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
tsddetail=1 # TSD in high detail (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
texture_colour=2 # Use texture colours and noisemaps directly. [WARNING!] Use only with correct texture packs. (0 = off, 1 = on, 2 = also use noisemap for higher resolution) (def = 0)
texture_filtering=1 # [EXPERIMENTAL!] texture blending (reacts to anisotropic filter setting) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
mipmapping=1 # mipmapped textures (dds files). [WARNING!] Use only with correct texture packs. (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
dynamic_water=1 # dynamic water textures (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
night_light=1.0 # night light darkness level (0.0 - 1.0) (0.0 = fully dark, 1.0 = less dark) (def = 1.0)
persistent_smoke=1 # Burning targets emitting smoke for a long time. [Warning!] CPU intensive. (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
cloud_puffs=1 # Cloud puffs. (0 = off, 1 = all maps except desert, 2 = all maps) (def = 1)
cloud_puffs_colours=220,230,255;230,230,255;235,235,255;245,245,255;250,250,255;255,255,255 # colours for cloud puffs
themes=2 # comma-separated list of directories for alternate psd files

[Views and Cameras]
# minfov is linked to key 7, maxfov is linked to key 9, normal fov is linked to key 8, normal fov = 60
minfov=20 # general field of view minimum
maxfov0=80 # general field of view maximum for Apache pits
maxfov1=80 # general field of view maximum for Havoc pit
maxfov2=80 # general field of view maximum for Comanche pit
maxfov3=80 # general field of view maximum for Hokum-B pit
maxfov4=80 # general field of view maximum for Hind pit
maxfov5=80 # general field of view maximum for Kiowa pit
maxfov6=80 # general field of view maximum for Viper pit
maxfov7=80 # general field of view maximum for Ka-50 pit

g-force_head_movement=1.0 # amount of head movement caused by gravitational force (wideview only) (n = Gs, 1.0 = normal, 0.0 = off) (default = 0.0)
comanche_pilot=0.000,0.105,0.180,0.000 # wideview pilot position
comanche_co-pilot=0.000,0.105,0.180,0.000 # wideview co-pilot position
hokum_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.200,0.000 # wideview pilot position
hokum_co-pilot=0.000,0.000,0.200,0.000 # wideview co-pilot position
apache_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-7.000 # wideview pilot position
apache_copilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-10.000 # wideview co-pilot position
havoc_pilot=0.000,0.050,0.200,-5.000 # wideview pilot position
hind_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview pilot position
hind_copilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview co-pilot position
viper_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview pilot position
viper_copilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview co-pilot position
kiowa_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview pilot position
kiowa_copilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview co-pilot position
ka50_pilot=0.000,0.000,0.000,-5.000 # wideview pilot position
hud_code=A4,0,11,20;0,0,10,20;4,0,11,20;0,0,10,20;0,0,10,20;0,48,10,20;0,0,11,20;0,0,10,20;0,0,11,20;0,0,10,20; # hud code for 4 gunships
wobbly-camera=1 # Make external cameras move wobbly and smoother (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)

[Dynamics]
flight_model=2 # 0 is default flight model, 1 is werewolf's flight model, 2 is arneh's model with suspension (def = 2)
enginerealism=1 # realistic engine workload simulation model (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
enginestartup=0 # manual engine start up, off by default (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
drbs=1.0 # retreating blade stall, floating point scaling factor for RBS effect (default = 1.0)
drv=1.0 # rudder value, scaling factor for drag on tail rotation (default = 1.0)
dra=0.8 # rudder acceleration, scaling factor for tail rotation acceleration (default = 0.8)
drd=1.0 # main rotor drag, scaling factor for drag caused by main rotor (default = 1.0)
dmrl=1.0 # main rotor lift, scaling factor for lift of main rotor (default = 1.0)
dtrd=1.0 # tail rotor drag, scaling factor for drag caused by tail in forward flight (default = 1.0)
dzd=0.0 # cyclic deadzone (n = %deadzone, 0.0 = no deadzone) (default = 0.0)
dyal=5.0 # yaw altitude loss (default = 5.0)
debug_show_force_vectors=0 # show force vectors on own helicopter for debuging purposes

[WUT]
# for more information see http://www.eechcentral.com/wiki/index.php?title=WUT
wut=GWUT1140.csv # Weapons and Unit Tweaking file (n = filename)

[Gameplay]
chaff=1.0 # effectiveness of chaff (0.0 - 1.0) (0.0 = ineffective, 1.0 = fully effective) (def = 1.0)
flare=1.0 # effectiveness of flares (0.0 - 1.0) (0.0 = ineffective, 1.0 = fully effective) (def = 1.0)
smoke=1.0 # effectiveness of smoke (0.0 - 1.0) (0.0 = ineffective, 1.0 = fully effective) (def = 1.0)
fog=14400.0 # sets reshroud time for "fog of war" (n = seconds) (def = 14400 (4 hours))
cpac=1 # Capture and utilize aircraft landed at captured bases (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
uit=5.0 # User invulnerable time at mission start (n = seconds) (def = 5.0)

faa=1 # fly any aircraft (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
radarinf=1 # infantry invisible and undetectable by radar (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
grstab=1 # ground stabilisation of FLIR (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
manual_laser/radar=0 # operate radar and laser manually (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
targeting_system_auto_page=1 # autoswitch MFD to according targeting system (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
camcom=0 # Campaign Commander (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
campaign_map_mode=2 # campaign map resolution (1 = default resolution, 2 = high resolution) (def = 1)
campaign_map_palette=2 # campaign map palette (1 = default shades, 2 = like paper map
map_update_interval=120 # enemy units update rate (n = seconds) (def = 120)
tacview_logging=0 # generate log for tacview (0 = off, 1 = generate log for mission with fog of war, 2 = generate log for mission, all units visible, 3 = generate log for entire campaing
destgt=0 # designated target list (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
cannontrack=1 # cannon tracking boresight (0 = no tracking, 1 = track if no acquire, 2 = always track IHADSS/HIDSS/HMS) (def = 1)
unpadlock_on_handover=0 # unpadlock on handover from HMS to TADS = 0 (off)
pilot_as_periscope_default=0 # stay in pilot seat when switching to periscope = 0 (off)
autoreturn_to_pilot_after_periscope=0 # switch to pilot seat when deactivating periscope = 0 (off)
TSD_mouse_control=1 # allows mouse control of TSD (Apache only) for selecting targets and creating PFZs
co_pilot_reports_targets=1 # Co-pilot will report targets he finds, and add them to TSD

[Joysticks and TrackIR]
eopann=-1 # joystick number for EO-camera panning
eopanv=0 # joystick DirectX axis for vertical EO-camera panning
eopanh=0 # joystick DirectX axis for horizontal EO-camera panning
eozoomn=3 # joystick number for EO-camera zooming
eozoomax=4 # joystick DirectX axis for EO-camera zooming
field_of_viewn=-1 # joystick number for field of view (zoom) of main view
field_of_viewax=5 # joystick DirectX axis for field of view (zoom) of main view
cyclicn=2 # Joystick number for cyclic
cyclich=1 # Joystick DirectX axis for cyclic horizontal
cyclicv=2 # Joystick DirectX axis for cyclic vertical
collectiven=3 # Joystick no. for the collective
collectiveax=1 # Joystick DirectX acis for the collective
ruddern=4 # Joystick no. for the rudder
rudderax=6 # Joystick DirectX axis for the rudder
joylookn=-1 # joystick no. used for joystick look
joylookh=0 # joystick DirectX axis used for horizontal joystick look
joylookv=0 # joystick DirectX axis used for vertical joystick look
joylookst=30 # joystick look step (1 = min, 100 = max) (def = 30)
nonlinear-cyclic=0 # use non-linear control for cyclic (less sensitive around center) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
nonlinear-pedals=1 # use non-linear control for pedals (less sensitive around center) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
nonlinear-collective-zone1=0.0 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 60% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.0 = max) (def = 0.3)
nonlinear-collective-zone2=0.0 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 100% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.2 = max) (def = 0.7)
nonlinear-collective-percentage-at-zone1=60.0 # collective percentage at zone1. Valid values are in range from 1.0 to 99.0, default is 60.0.
reverse_pedal=0 # reversed pedal input (0 = off/blue force/USA, 1 = on/red force/Russia) (def = 0)
msl=3 # activates mouselook (and TrackIR when present) (0 = off, 1 = internal, 2 = external, 3 = both) (def = 0)
msls=15 # mouselook speed (when msl=1) (n > 0) (def = 15), POV speed (when msl=0) (n > 0, max = 20) (def = 13)
TIR_6DOF=1 # 6 DoF support for TrackIR (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
external_trackir=0 # (only when msl=1) external cameras controlled by TrackIR (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
external_trackir_dir=0 # (only when external_trackir=1) invert external cameras view direction (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)

[Miscellaneous]
filter=1 # session filtering (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
autosave=0 # autosave (n = minutes, 0 = off) (def = 0)
dfr=0 # display framerate (0 = off, 1 = on, 2 = log to file "framerate.txt") (def = 0)
goto=0 # "GOTO" (teleport) functionality on campaign map (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
vfm=0 # vector flight model (activates viewer or "UFO" flight mode) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
psr=1 # player start rank for new pilots (1 - 5) (def = 1)
mta=4 # maximum time acceleration (n = time multiplier) (default = 4)
nomcm=0 # no mission complete music (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
disable_text_messages=1 # Disables the text messages displayed at top of screen (messages can still be heard) (def = 0)

MEMEXPORT=0 # export cockpit information to a shared memory area (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
export_mfd=1 # enables MFD export on multimon systems (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
export_mfd_adapter=0 # graphic adapter for MFD export screen (0 = first, 1 = second, ...) (def = 0)
export_mfd_screen_width=1280 # resolution of export screen (n = pixels horizontally) (def = 640)
export_mfd_screen_height=1024 # resolution of export screen (n = pixels vertically) (def = 400)
export_mfd_left_pos=0,0,512,512 # left MFD position (def = 0,0,256,256)
export_mfd_right_pos=768,0,1280,512 # right MFD position (def = 384,0,640,256)
export_mfd_single_pos=0,0,512,512 # single MFD position (Havoc, Hind and Black Shark only) (def = 0,0,256,256)

[Sounds]
ns=0 # bypass soundcard (useful for tracking hardware conflicts) (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
sound_device= # sound device name
sound_device_speech= # sound device name for speech
hdwrbuf=0 # hardware buffers to use for sound (0 = software only, n = number of hard buffers) (def = 0)
canopy_sounds_amp=450,90,375;15,15,100;120,80,100;10,10,100;240,10,100;20,20,100;180,20,100;180,10,100; # canopy sounds amplifier controller
ui_sounds_muted=0 # campaign UI mute (0 = normal UI sounds, 1 = UI sounds muted) (default = 0)

[Random weather]
rw_rrmin=5000.0 # Rain effect minimum radius (meters)
rw_rrmax=100000.0 # Rain effect maximum radius (meters)
rw_rsp=185.5 # Rain effect speed (meters per second)
rw_wrmin=8000.0 # Wind effect minimum radius (meters)
rw_wrmax=128000.0 # Wind effect maximum radius (meters)
rw_wsp=206.1 # Wind effect speed (meters per second)

[end of file]
Posted By:

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 09:26 PM

You have a notepad? improve flight model.
Posted By: komemiute

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 09:42 PM

Welcome Haukka81! I had a similar experience flying the much beloved TFX some time ago... biggrin
It felt so good back in the day, but now...

Interesting comments Kaboom...
It sounds like you got some real stick time in a helo... smile

Your post count is pretty low too, so you couold be too kind of new... Welcome again!
What about your experience with Helo & sims? smile

I'm honestly curious!
Posted By: Haukka81

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: komemiute
Welcome Haukka81! I had a similar experience flying the much beloved TFX some time ago... biggrin
It felt so good back in the day, but now...

Interesting comments Kaboom...
It sounds like you got some real stick time in a helo... smile

Your post count is pretty low too, so you couold be too kind of new... Welcome again!
What about your experience with Helo & sims? smile

I'm honestly curious!



Hi! i have been simming from 1990 -> till today , not so young anymore old_simmer

I fly all sims that have weapons , DCS etc,, but Falcon BMS is my love and main sim because dynamic campaing and so is this old chopper sim too (EECH)

I agree with others that It feels that there is way too much power in all helos when you are full loaded weapons and fuel. Its only big thing in fligt model what sometimes bit frustrates me .


My first sim was falcon at long,long time ago, then was Falcon 3.0 , A-10 cuba , F-18 Hornet Korea, Janes F-15 ( legend) , Longbow 2 and so on mycomputer


Here is pic of my sim corner: http://aijaa.com/aOlFAX

I have just sold that 32" away and now my visuals are made of 3x24" IPS displays :P


Joe13@ don't take this too personally, my english is not best but i don't mean to whine, It was just my memory that failed, time makes weird things , flight sims have gone far what it was back in 2000 or 1990 jawdrop




-haukka81
Posted By: komemiute

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 10:55 PM

LOL, GREAT corner! Mine is similar but simpler...
GOSH I wish I had the space you have...

Hey as soon as you have pictures of the new corner setup, let them rip! biggrin

I was "born" as a simmer with the ever old Chuck Yeager Air Combat for my XT 13MHz... LOL Talk about old... wink
That game was a mind-changer for me...
Since then I got mesmerized by the simulators and never stopped trying to learn somethinn serious out of them.
I virtually played EVERY one of them, except Carrier borne fighters... too hard for a kid...

Lately I was quite happy with my results in Thirdwire's Strike Fighters Vietnam, but that was really easy. And somewhat dull, switchology-wise.

Still dreaming for DCS A-6...

As a result of all this mess with games and PCs, I'm now working in Military Flight Simulators for the national air-force. :P
Logged somewhat 200 hours on the Eurofighter one since 2006, BTW...

Now I'm trying to collect enough change to buy me the DCS Huey. But with wife and two kids... rolleyes
Have you tried it? What's your personal opinion?
Posted By: Haukka81

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: komemiute
LOL, GREAT corner! Mine is similar but simpler...
GOSH I wish I had the space you have...

Hey as soon as you have pictures of the new corner setup, let them rip! biggrin

I was "born" as a simmer with the ever old Chuck Yeager Air Combat for my XT 13MHz... LOL Talk about old... wink
That game was a mind-changer for me...
Since then I got mesmerized by the simulators and never stopped trying to learn somethinn serious out of them.
I virtually played EVERY one of them, except Carrier borne fighters... too hard for a kid...

Lately I was quite happy with my results in Thirdwire's Strike Fighters Vietnam, but that was really easy. And somewhat dull, switchology-wise.

Still dreaming for DCS A-6...

As a result of all this mess with games and PCs, I'm now working in Military Flight Simulators for the national air-force. :P
Logged somewhat 200 hours on the Eurofighter one since 2006, BTW...

Now I'm trying to collect enough change to buy me the DCS Huey. But with wife and two kids... rolleyes
Have you tried it? What's your personal opinion?



Hi!

I post pics when i get new corner runing and set up smile



I have DCS HUEY, and i can say that it set new level of flight model simulation. Sense of flight is awesome and it really is hard to learn..lot harder than black shark.. no computer asistance etc.. :P But it's hell of fun, even just flying all around map is fun.

It's lightly armed and armored so use in combat is limited to low threat operations until RWR and Flares are ready (those are not ready yet, but will be relased bit later)

I recomend to get huey if you like choppers copter But after huey nothing feels same, flight model is so good. Trust me.


Sad that there is no DC in dcs yet.
Posted By: komemiute

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/14/13 11:22 PM

*SIGH* You get me dreaming.

Thank you wink

Anyway... as I said with a full family time is limited so all I can do is to get more and more proficient with the A10, another love interest of mine.

I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement! biggrin

Time to go to bed,
Till later!
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 05:12 AM

Let's back to eech =) Just to be clear: to change game physics or only some forces you have to edit source code. But all basic data like moments or inertia are in dyn files in EECH\common\data folder, you can change some modifiers and look what will happen.

Originally Posted By: komemiute
I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement!

that was really rude.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 07:14 AM

Everyone is good at criticising the flight model. It probably does need work to bring it up to more modern flight sims. But there are few devs around that could do it. So if you think you can help improve it, then get access to the source code and have a go.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 07:18 AM

Edit: posted twice in error
Posted By: Haukka81

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 07:42 AM

Originally Posted By: messyhead
Everyone is good at criticising the flight model. It probably does need work to bring it up to more modern flight sims. But there are few devs around that could do it. So if you think you can help improve it, then get access to the source code and have a go.




Can't do that, no skills for that.


Without critic nothing will be changed ever in world (IRL too).


But ok, i don't say anything.

Bye.


-haukka81
Posted By: komemiute

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: thealx

Originally Posted By: komemiute
I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement!

that was really rude.


Sorry, what? I apologize if you feel insulted, but what do you mean by rude?
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 07:50 AM

If I correctly understood you mean that eech is a dead end and no one can make it better.
Posted By: komemiute

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 09:27 AM

I see...
I absolutely was NOT talking about EECH.


My sentence:
Komemiute:
Anyway... as I said with a full family time is limited so all I can do is to get more and more proficient with the A10, another love interest of mine.
I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement!


I said that since I have a wife and two kids my time on the PC is limited. All I can do is get better with the one I started. In this very case the A-10C Warthog module for DCS World.

I'm not too shabby with it so far: was indeed related to the A10- this means I'm not too bad using it.
With still some room for improvement: Means that on the A10 I'm still not the best player ever, I still have some things to learn and some procedures to get fluent with.

That's all.
No mention whatsoever of EECH, as you can see...
Posted By:

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 09:46 AM

Imo BMS is best simulator ever but has one of the biggest disadvantage.Where to find time for it?:(
One mission can last for 1 - 2 of 3 hours.How many people can spend so much time without leaving computer.
Why you can not have  mission as eech~15 20 minutes.
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 11:37 AM

komemiute, yep, I'm just misunderstood.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By: komemiute
I see...
I absolutely was NOT talking about EECH.


My sentence:
Komemiute:
Anyway... as I said with a full family time is limited so all I can do is to get more and more proficient with the A10, another love interest of mine.
I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement!


I said that since I have a wife and two kids my time on the PC is limited. All I can do is get better with the one I started. In this very case the A-10C Warthog module for DCS World.

I'm not too shabby with it so far: was indeed related to the A10- this means I'm not too bad using it.
With still some room for improvement: Means that on the A10 I'm still not the best player ever, I still have some things to learn and some procedures to get fluent with.

That's all.
No mention whatsoever of EECH, as you can see...


I feel your pain. I've been slowly working on creating a Blackhawk cockpit, but with a young family, my time is also limited.

But having 10 limited time developers, is probably better than having 1 or 2 biggrin
Posted By:

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 12:08 PM

Speaking of, we want some  Blackhawk screenshot update neaner
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 05/15/13 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: joe13
Speaking of, we want some  Blackhawk screenshot update neaner


Errrr.... Yeah, so nice weather we're having, not trying to change the subject or anything biggrin


I've had computer problems, so I need to get it all back up an running. I'm probably getting a new laptop next month so I can continue with it. I'm also waiting to hear back from Firebird for a couple of things.
Posted By: AdamMil

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 06/20/13 03:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Haukka81
Here is pic of my sim corner: http://aijaa.com/aOlFAX

Holy crap that's awesome. :-)

Originally Posted By: messyhead
Everyone is good at criticising the flight model. ... there are few devs around that could do it.

Originally Posted By: Haukka81
Can't do that, no skills for that.

Whereas I have the skills to make changes -- been programming for 20+ years -- but I have no real experience flying helicopters so I don't know what changes to make. We need somebody who's a programmer AND a combat helicopter pilot. :-P
Posted By: Magitek

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 06/20/13 04:06 AM

Originally Posted By: AdamMil

Whereas I have the skills to make changes -- been programming for 20+ years -- but I have no real experience flying helicopters so I don't know what changes to make. We need somebody who's a programmer AND a combat helicopter pilot. :-P

Being a programmer doesn't automatically qualify you as someone who can make good physics unfortunately.
So the equation is closer to: programming + acrobatic helicopter pilot + someone who understands physics + someone who can translate those physics into virtual reality... which explains why no one ever gets physics quite right!

I think it would really help if the community could come together and agree on what is actually wrong with EECH physics so progress can be made on it.


Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by kaboom
With a normal load an AH-64 can pull 3.4Gs so at the speeds we tend to maneuver at I think the model is pretty close except for pedal turns and side-slipping which are way bad but I've tweaked the ini enough to make it acceptable. At least the horrific and ridiculous VRS of LB2 is not present, it's the one flight model area in LB2 that is SO far off the mark it's embarrassing. VRS is easy to deal with as long as you recognize what's going on.


LB2 does not model VRS. LB2 is an uncanny recreation of a AFCS-style helo with 'carefree handling' characteristics and no lame-ass canned, wings-leveling. As is, the LB2 flight model is just a slower version of the Attitude-Hold/Rate-Command mode of the Comanche preventing you from doing careless stuff. Add VRS to it and the ability to damage the main rotors with excessive maneuvering extremes (one most extreme attitude hold state to the other most extreme attitude hold state in very short rate command time), then the resulting flight model would be very hard to fault. The drawbacks in LB2 are the useless 3D cockpits in 3dfx, overall graphics compared to modern stuff now, enemy helos just circling you, and obviously the numerous bugs on current systems. An updated-looking and bug-free version of Longbow 2 just with its current simulation and missions would blow other chopper sims out of the water. Wouldn't even be hard to add VRS or main rotor damage if you do really crazy stuff with the controls too fast. Who owns the rights to LB2?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 06:06 PM

even if you get the source code, what next?the community of helicopter enthusiasts is very small, to adapt lb2 to the eech level requires thousands of hours of work of a dozen people.
Mission impossible.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 06:36 PM

Who ever owns Longbow 2 just needs to adapt it into newer Windows with improved cockpit, new graphics system, with all the rest of the code being the same except for maybe very easy VRS, extreme handling damage added, and the enemy helos circling all the time. Seems like an easy money maker. Right now it's IP that's not making them money at all. I'm not talking about 'EECH level' which is, frankly, dog crap, anyway. Terrain system in EECH is garbage. Flight models are a garbage patch work. Longbow 2 is way stronger even without the dynamic campaign system, which is interesting because DCS has never managed missions or campaign branchings like Janes ever did. Longbow 2's main issues are 1) it's buggy on modern systems, and 2) it's got an awful cockpit: either 2D or useless 3D one.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Reticuli
I'm not talking about 'EECH level' which is, frankly, dog crap, anyway. Terrain system in EECH is garbage. Flight models are a garbage patch work.


I'm hoping this comment is just related to the flight model, and not the game in general?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 07:32 PM

Just ignore him.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 09:47 PM

The flight model has been made worse and the terrain system in EECH is garbage to the core. I'm talking about whoever owns Longbow 2 ought to consider simply taking the sim and porting it to modern Windows with a newer graphics system. Even bringing it up to Falcon Allied Force/BMS looks would probably be enough. That thing seems to work on all versions of Windows. Not super glitzy, but functional. The core simulation of LB2 is sound. Great full authority flight model even without VRS, especially for the vast majority of people with spring or pressure sticks and unlike the headache that is dealing with helos in DCS or this lame, simplistic wings leveling junk in EECH, Comanche Gold, or Search & Rescue. I mean, there are ways of dealing with that, but it's not ideal and eventually will catch up with you when you do something like reaching the goofy pitch or roll angle limits. A stable LB2 that actually looked halfway decent and usable? That's definitely marketable. How hard could that be for a company when the core simulation is sound?
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 10:59 PM

I am still not sure what is your point - eech does not deserve to exist, or you wish it could be better?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/25/20 11:04 PM

he has been writing the same babble for 15 years.
I read the same with version 1.13 or something.hard case, ignore.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by thealx
I am still not sure what is your point - eech does not deserve to exist, or you wish it could be better?


My point is that the IP owner of LB2 could stand to make some money off it with a port to modern OS and that Banita is making a bizarre comparison with modded EECH1. Wish EECH didn't exist? I play it all the time. But there's some things LB2 did much better.

Originally Posted by BANITA
he has been writing the same babble for 15 years.
I read the same with version 1.13 or something.hard case, ignore.


I can't say I ever noticed our paths crossing on here before.
Posted By: thealx

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 08:05 AM

EECH flight model was never in a scope of any developer since the beginning. It was good enough in release year, then no one tried to replace it with something more complicated.
Only revolutionary improvement that was made in all these years is suspension dynamics added by Arneh, which I have applied to all helicopters and added water collision. Everything else was just adjustments, you shouldn't expect much from this approach.
But I wouldn't compare anything related to this game with dog sh#t. Weak side - sure, but it was matter of chance that some dev with physics knowledge will step in and make something new. That just did not happen.
Same story with LB2 - copyrights owners does not see commercial potential in it, or have more important problems, or loose rights completely. Life sucks, it is the fact.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Reticuli
The flight model has been made worse and the terrain system in EECH is garbage to the core. I'm talking about whoever owns Longbow 2 ought to consider simply taking the sim and porting it to modern Windows with a newer graphics system. Even bringing it up to Falcon Allied Force/BMS looks would probably be enough. That thing seems to work on all versions of Windows. Not super glitzy, but functional. The core simulation of LB2 is sound. Great full authority flight model even without VRS, especially for the vast majority of people with spring or pressure sticks and unlike the headache that is dealing with helos in DCS or this lame, simplistic wings leveling junk in EECH, Comanche Gold, or Search & Rescue. I mean, there are ways of dealing with that, but it's not ideal and eventually will catch up with you when you do something like reaching the goofy pitch or roll angle limits. A stable LB2 that actually looked halfway decent and usable? That's definitely marketable. How hard could that be for a company when the core simulation is sound?


The source code is available if you want access to work on the flight model and improve it. Having a general moan about it being crap isn't going to get much done.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 02:03 PM

Hmm all he can do is walk into someone's apartment and #%&*$# in the center of the room. nothing else has done and will not do.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 03:30 PM

It ain't your or anyone else's apartment, buddy.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 04:03 PM

do something for this simulator or quit.complain can any loser. eot
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/26/20 06:10 PM

Let's keep it civil people.
Posted By: AndyB

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/27/20 12:46 PM

Hi Reticuli,

I understand that you have an opinion on the quality of things in EECH. As an individual you have that right. We all have that same right.

I for one want to say that I don't find the stuff in EECH "crap" and in fact It really surprises me what the modders here have gotten out of an antiquated and discarded game. Yes, there are niggly issues with it but nothing I'd call major.

If you don't like the game then don't play it - it's that simple. If you bought the game and feel you've were miss-lead then complain to the seller.

If you feel that things in the game could be improved then chip in and have a try at fixing it. There is a wishlist somewhere on the forum. Why not put CONSTRUCTIVE comments on there. That's what I did.

If you just want to argue with someone then go elsewhere because that's not what this forum is about.

Have a lovely day and stay safe in these uncertain times,

Andy
Posted By: Javelin

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 11/27/20 09:25 PM

Hi Guys. One of the problems is you're using version 1.15, not the latest version 1.16.2. I did some work last year on the physics engine which is integrated into the 1.16.2 release. And I'm not just a modder, I'm also a senior mechanical engineer. I do know physics. I fixed the auto hover and ground-following controls as well as the basic physics using proper feed back control loops. The EECH engine isn't perfect, but it's a darn sight better than it used to be. Maybe a simple upgrade would cure some of your issues.
Javelin
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/04/21 09:14 PM

I've been more constructive talking about the FMs than all of you combined. You guys have literally said zero constructive and beneficial on the topic at all other than 'it doesn't work right' or pretending everything is fine. Then earlier in one of these threads biting someone's head off when they were actually being polite. Some of you deserve some actual rudeness.

One of the problems with the flight model is a lack of yaw damper clearly. The sim is trying to do it using the inherent drag on the tail. That's not how aircraft yaw works. In a hover you ought to get at least a full rotation after releasing max yaw without a damper. The tail forward flight drag setting in the ini is also very weird. Did any version of the alternative pseudo real advanced flight model ever NOT have anemic yaw on the Ka-50/52? With half yaw authority through PPJoy/GlovePIE and some nonlinearity stuff both in the script and in EECH optionally, and also sometimes optionally just assigning the pedals direct in EECH options when I need full authority, the hokums are at least useable in FM 0 & 1. FM 2 also seems to be mostly coded into either the sim or the GWUT as the dyn files do nothing to it and I think the only ini line that did anything to improve it (or change it for that matter) was slightly increasing main rotor lift. Any explanation of the GWUT categories?

BTW, THE TRANSLATIONAL LIFT SETTING IS REVERSED WHEN FM 2 IS IN USE. ETL and ground effect are way too anemic on it, but people with ETL On in the options with even less lift... that's the explanation.

In order to get the proper Apache D service ceiling on the non-alternative FMs you need to put the ini air density setting at 3.0 with GWUT1.6.1.

I'm using PPJoy virtual joystick as an intermediary between my HOTAS and EECH, and assigning the virtual joystick in the sim and ini. Then I use GlovePIE running a script as a programming intermediary to roughly and 'dummly' (it doesn't know the sim aircraft's attitude) do auto trimming, as well as limit the ranges of auto trimming and limit the range available for yaw, to add yaw trim, etc.

Here is my latest GlovePIE EECH script:

var.nlzrots = sign(Joystick1.zrot) //Nonlinear pedals. Can be combined with sim nonlinear setting.
var.nlzrotm = abs(Joystick1.zrot)^(1.3) //Usually 1.3 but 1 will make it linear.
var.nlzrot = var.nlzrotm * var.nlzrots

if var.nlzrot = 0 then { //Better pedal fix.
var.pedalfix = -0.999999
else
var.pedalfix = var.nlzrot // pedals
}

var.dial = smooth(deadzone(joystick2.dial, 0.008), 10)

if shift+t then begin { //Auto trim clear
var.xhold = 0
var.yhold = 0
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog5 = var.pedalfix / 2 - var.dial /2 //For pedals. Usually bypassed unless FM 0 or 1 with coaxials.

else

var.xhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) / 30 + var.xhold, -.4, .4) //Roll auto trimming. Over -.5/.5 causes continuous roll, but -.75/.75 is nicely responsive.
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) //Roll
var.yhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)/ 30 + var.yhold, -.75, .75) //Pitch auto trimming
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075) //Pitch
PPJoy1.Analog2 = Joystick2.z //Collective that I'm currently bypassing and going direct
PPJoy1.Analog5 = var.pedalfix / 2 - var.dial /2 //For pedals. Dividers 1 or 2 for non-hokums, Higher for hokum B. Can be bypassed and assign pedals directly in sim for FM 2.


}

var.bank = PPJoy1.Analog0
var.pitch = PPJoy1.Analog1
var.collective = PPJoy1.Analog2
var.GPyaw = PPJoy1.Analog5
var.rawpedals = Joystick1.zrot
var.throttle2 = Joystick2.zrot
var.bottomwheel = Joystick2.slider
var.rawtopdial = Joystick2.dial
Posted By: messyhead

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/05/21 11:01 AM

Thanks for you comments and investigation on the flight model. I'm sure if someone decides to work on it, they can use your comments for improvements.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/05/21 08:35 PM

Besides the lack of yaw damper, the use of 'rudder acceleration' as an adjustable parameter is completely wrong and useless, especially as some easily-accessible ini parameter. All that does is change how long it takes to reach maximum yaw rate given a certain drag setting and continuous pedal input, and of course you have that yaw drag setting doubling equally wrongly as a yaw damper. The yaw drag actually increases the Hokum maximum yaw rate, too, so you can imagine the nightmare of attempting to balance maximum yaw rate on the Hokum, non-Hokums, a general universal proper yaw acceleration, yaw damper effect or not, and yaw drag or not. It's a no win situation left to itself. The closest you can get to an actual proper helicopter yaw for all the helos in EECH, regardless of whether you want digital FBW or old style, is to limit maximum available pedal input with a divider that you adjust for each helo type, which isn't the worst idea... heck, I could assign a rotary just for that purpose of magnitude authority, and then to basically have something like GlovePIE (which I'm already using for the former) pump the yaw like you'd pump car brakes so that a continuous pedal amount just initially accelerates to a given modest yaw rate and then stays there instead of ramping up forever. In fact, I had an errant script in some other sim the other day that was doing just that, so I might be able to duplicate that if I kept a copy of the glitchy script and intentionally move the effect over to the EECH script.

That said, after working on this for the last few days, last night I made a breakthrough achieving something resembling a faithful digital FBW helicopter when using GWUT 1.16.1. Granted, this is not a real aerodynamics simulation of a helicopter flying through the air and then an actual AFCS program acting as an intermediary between the pilot and the aircraft sensing the aircraft performance and sensors or pilot inputs. However, between this weird canned thing EECH does and the PPJoy/GlovePIE stuff, an approximation seems to be congealing of some of the former's results. The yaw drag and yaw acceleration sections, however, are obviously a work in progress with no easy answer when just adjusting the ini. You can do 30 for drag and 0.2 for accel, or 2 and 2, or 0.3 and 0.3, but when this all 'clicked' I just had them at 1.0 and 1.0 when I felt the butterflies happen and knew the rest of the parameters were right, so the yaw mitigation I just did through GlovePIE combined with nonlinear settings both there and in EECH on a helo-to-helo basis. I also put my Head G-Forces and Cockpit Vibration settings at 1.5, though the Head G-Forces effect responds too slowly & adversely affects the ability to see HUDs. Cockpit Vibrations also do not occur during strong sudden collective/cyclic changes or when passing the ETL threshold like they should, but at least vibrations coincide with bank angle and IAS. Head G-Forces thing further incentivizes gentle maneuvering and use of the gauges or MFDs for flight indicators.

I haven't tried the GWUTs other than 1.16.1 much lately and when I did it was prior to discovering the translational lift setting bug for FM 2, which invalidates most of my efforts back then. So I guess make sure GWUT1.16.1 is listed in the EECH.ini. Yes, I'm using the latest 1.16.2 test patch/exe, though.

Lets call this Reticuli's AFCS Mimic EECH.ini FM Tweaks for use with GWUT1.16.1:

[Dynamics]
flight_model=0 # 0 is the default flight model with coordinated turning that the dyn and ini setting affect. 1 is werewolf's adjustments of this default FM which is similar to FM 0 but without some yaw aerodynamic streamlining or any auto coordinated turning, 2 - alternative pseudoreal FM (def = 2) has IAS affecting RPM slightly with rotor disengaged and RPM supposedly affects lift with rotor engaged, though RPM does not fluctuate enough with fast collective changes with rotor engaged and increasing IAS takes too long to increase RPM with rotor disengaged. Taxiing does is not safe with FM 2 due to strange yaw and roll moments possibly due to FM interaction with suspension mods. FM 2 is not affected by any dyn files or most ini lines. FM 2 adversely lowered both translational lift and ground effect, the latter of which was prior to these ini changes already too low in the sim on FM 0 and 1. FM 0 and 1 Hokum B max yaw is always too high, while FM 2's is too low. FM 2 also reverses the EECH Translational Lift menu option such that on is off, so if using FM 2 you must set that to off to get any ETL at all. FM 2 has more realistic auto rotation. FM 0 and 1 are slightly too lite and high thrust. FM 2 is too heavy and low thrust. Hence differences in dmrl. FM 0 and 2 turn coordination mixes in yaw when banking at too low a speed still. FM 0 (optionally, obviously, you can use FM 1 with these settings if you don't want turn coordination or yaw streamlining, but it's a mystery how FM 2 is affected by these settings if at all other than dmrl and dyad) with Reticuli's 1-5-2021 ini values in combination with PPJoy and GlovePIE causes EECH to most closely mimic a FBW helicopter like especially the Comanche and also somewhat like the Zulu Viper, Apache D, or Hokum similar to the work Penn State's rotorcraft research lab and the Army ADOCs program have done.
enginerealism=1 # realistic engine workload simulation model (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 1)
enginestartup=0 # manual engine start up, off by default (0 = off, 1 = on) (def = 0)
drbs=1.0 # retreating blade stall, floating point scaling factor for RBS effect (default = 1.0). Most helos should have this happening sooner and benefit from 1.1 or even 1.2, but some like the Zulu Viper are the reverse, so might as well just leave it at the default.
drv=1.0 # rudder value, scaling factor for drag on tail rotation (Default = 1.0.) Undesirable parameter to be adjusting since this must work as the tail drag, max Hokum B yaw rate, and as an inappropriate yaw damper that should be separate from drag. Very high like 30 is possible with very low fractional dra below. Even higher drv produces counter effects when banking opposite during yaw.
dra=1.0 # rudder acceleration, scaling factor for tail rotation acceleration (default = 0.8). Undesirable value to be adjusting, as maximum yaw rate would be more useful. If set low enough and the tail drag high enough, non-Hokums will not continually ramp up yaw rate, but then the Hokum with such a high tail drag gets further insane max yaw rates.
drd=0.1 # main rotor drag, scaling factor for drag caused by main rotor (default = 1.0). It's uncertain if this affects parallel aerodynamic streamlining drag of the rotor disc, but it is definitely perpendicular drag that affects angular rotational rates for a given X and Y input and at higher settings causes the helicopter to bleed speed with X and Y axis maneuvering. Ground effect may noticeably increase at 0.1 over higher values, and since ground effect, aerodynamic streamlining, and aerobatic capabilities are problematic in EECH, this value at 0.1 seems essential. Joystick sensitivity on your end may need adjustment to compensate for this increased pitch and roll authority.
dmrl=0.9 # main rotor lift, scaling factor for lift of main rotor (default = 1.0). With FM 0 or 1, dmrl of 0.9 is most accurate. With FM 2, dmrl of 1.1 is most accurate.
dtrd=10.0 # tail rotor drag, scaling factor for drag caused by tail in forward flight (default = 1.0). It is difficult to say exactly how this is affecting flight, but lower than 10.0 seems to have an adverse effect on aerobatics, and at 10.0 something magical seemed to happen both with aerobatics and in just the normal flight envelope maneuvering NOE with collective and banking flying between buildings seat-of-the-pants. The ability to do a proper forward speed landing on a runway and taxi in FM 0 with all the above (whatever your chosen yaw setting and other mitigation methods) made it apparent something had snapped into place with these non-yaw ini values.
dyal=2.5 # yaw altitude loss (default = 5.0). This is the only yaw ini value I have some confidence about. If you have crosscoupling off, you might want a value of 5.0. This is perhaps excessive for AFCS aircraft and with crosscoupling 2.5 feels better and is less prone to crashing with large pedal inputs while still having a noticeable affect. YMMV.
dyad=3.0 # global air density modifier (0.5 - increase dynamics ceiling, 2.0 - decrease) (default = 1.0) A value of about 3.0 appears required with FM 0 to get an Apache D up to just over 20,000ft but not much higher at 100kts for a realistic ceiling.
Posted By: SippyCup

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/05/21 08:55 PM

Perhaps try the psychological approach: Play KA-52 Team Alligator for ~12 seconds and you'll feel much better about everything else.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/05/21 09:34 PM

Hah hah. I am actually a bit of a Melanie Martinez fan, myself. The music bar/lounge I used to DJ at introduced me to it. Not sure if your name is a reference to that.

I think Team Alligator is probably one of 3 or 4 combat helo sims I haven't used. I'm well aware of the dearth of good flight models with historic helo sims, but let's look at the highlights of flight performance fidelity:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/42145-comanche-enhanced-apache-v10/

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.ph...r/&do=findComment&comment=324740

I also have a bunch of other X-Plane and FSX helos heavily tweaked into AFCS goodness, including a passable Blackshark, Blackhawk, Gazelle, Huey, and JetRanger 206 that all just basically require manual trimming of the roll axis. In fact, the KA-50 requires you to go into the X-Plane joystick sensitivity and cut the yaw authority way down, so there's precedent for at least the extreme yaw authority, if not the ramp up and other yaw parameter issues. Other than the fact you have to bump some slight opposite deflection when you roll inverted in EECH due to the goofy auto wings leveling that's always in not only Y but X, I think what I have now in EECH with these ini tweaks and GlovePIE is now arguably getting quite a bit of truthiness for a digital FBW helo sim, if I may be so bold. And we get to blow stuff up and use stealth. I think this combined aggregate flight modeling & pilatage is now at least rivaling Longbow Anthology, and I think we're very close to getting RPM overpitching effects in EECH somehow... actually think I did that very crudely with a GlovePIE script at a one time based on the speed of collective changes if I can find it. There is, however, a fascinating X-Plane Bell 222 auto trim project going on right now at Cowan Simulations. I think I've already tweaked someone's Airwolf, though.

Edit:

BTW, for collective nonlinearity I'm using these settings, but I'm sure that's very dependent on your individual throttle model:

nonlinear-collective-zone1=0.4 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 60% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.0 = max) (def = 0.3)

nonlinear-collective-zone2=1.0 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 100% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.2 = max) (def = 0.7)

nonlinear-collective-percentage-at-zone1=50.0 # collective percentage at zone1. Valid values are in range from 1.0 to 99.0, default is 60.0.

Edit:

What I think drd at 0.1 might be doing at low altitude is causing the rotor disc to deviate upward away from the ground effect, which, while more likely to occur with lighter helicopters in real life, is a wonderful effect to be having in EECH at all, and is evidence, I believe, of that parameter being responsible to some degree for an aerodynamic streamlining effect of the main rotor disc. It also is a larger effect with the turbulence of landing gear.

New GlovePIE script with yaw range knob. I'm still working on a pumping yaw script that does more pumping during hovering and less when laterally moving, but it's proving to be slightly more buggy than I expected even though it mostly seems to work.


var.yawrange = (smooth(deadzone(joystick2.slider, 0.008), 10) + 2 ) ^ 2 // Bottom throttle thumb rotary assigned as a yaw range.
var.nlzrots = sign(Joystick1.zrot) //Nonlinear pedals.
var.nlzrotm = abs(Joystick1.zrot)^(1.3) //Usually 1.3 but 1 will make it linear.
var.nlzrot = var.nlzrotm * var.nlzrots
if var.nlzrot = 0 then { //Better pedal fix.
var.pedalfix = -0.999999
else
var.pedalfix = var.nlzrot // pedals
}
var.dial = smooth(deadzone(joystick2.dial, 0.008), 10)
if shift+t then begin { //Auto trim clear
var.xhold = 0
var.yhold = 0
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog5 = (var.pedalfix / 1 - var.dial / 2 ) / var.yawrange //For pedals. Usually bypassed unless FM 0 or 1 with coaxials.
else
var.xhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) / 30 + var.xhold, -.4, .4) //Roll auto trimming. Over -.5/.5 causes continuous roll, but -.75/.75 is nicely responsive.
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) //Roll
var.yhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)/ 30 + var.yhold, -.75, .75) //Pitch auto trimming
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075) //Pitch
PPJoy1.Analog2 = Joystick2.z //Collective that I'm currently bypassing and going direct
PPJoy1.Analog5 = (var.pedalfix / 1 - var.dial / 2 ) / var.yawrange //For pedals. Usually bypassed unless FM 0 or 1 with coaxials. Now with yawrange on thumb dial.
}
var.bank = PPJoy1.Analog0
var.pitch = PPJoy1.Analog1
var.collective = PPJoy1.Analog2
var.GPyaw = PPJoy1.Analog5
var.rawpedals = Joystick1.zrot
var.throttle2 = Joystick2.zrot
var.bottomwheel = Joystick2.slider
var.rawtopdial = Joystick2.dial

Edit:

Maybe preferring a little more ease of authority on the pitch than on the roll, at least on the Apache D, which is quite a bit different than not only the classic fixed-wing aircraft 1:2:4 ratio, but even how I used to run joysticks with EECH. Many of the other helos are feeling pretty close to 1:1.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? - 01/10/21 10:11 PM

You must use FM 2 to have crosscoupling OFF. FM 0 & 1 have an issue with yaw and lift in forward flight with CC OFF under the sim's Options Menu in Dynamics. I always have it on and use FM 0 now with the above tweaks, but if you use FM 2 obviously coaxials are problematic with their weak yaw in a hover right now. So if you want to do all the pedal mixing yourself with your feet old-school, then use FM 2 and don't plan on flying coaxials expecting much yaw rate.

***

I've been testing GWUT 1.16.2 with EECH v1.16.2 and so far have not noticed much difference in the FMs over GWUT 1.16.1. May be fine to use the newer GWUT after all.

***


Dynamics settings:

Crosscoupling ON or flying a coaxial:

flight_model=0
drv=1.0
dra=1.0
drd=0.1
dmrl=0.9
dtrd=10.0
dyal=2.5
dyad=3.0

Plus Translational Lift (ETL) Options-Dynamics setting to ON.


OR


NOT flying a coaxial and you have crosscoupling OFF:

flight_model=2
drv=1.0
dra=1.0
drd=0.1
dmrl=1.1
dtrd=10.0
dyal=5.0
dyad=3.0

Plus Translational Lift (ETL) Options-Dynamics setting to OFF.


***

More organized recommended to-do list posted at-request

FM Stuff:

1. Make my ini Dynamics tweaks the default... including the comments, like dmrl at 0.9 for FM0/1 and 1.1 for FM2. Obviously when some of the below stuff is done, some of the explanatory text will go.

2. Fix Translational Lift option when FM2 is in use. Currently, on is off and off is on. Some people may choose to use FM2 with its bizarrely-weak Ground effect and Translational Lift even when it’s properly on, so might as well get that option setting working correctly. It’s also possible that in the long run this model might have more potential, such as with more stable yaw pedal performance, but only time will tell. (Edit: the ETL coding for FM 2 is very broken, as it's actually altering lift while in a hover)

2.1 Ground Effect actually seems to increase in the sim, at least in FM 0, the faster you go. I believe this is related to the main rotor pivot drag being decreased to 0.1 and the tail rotor drag in forward motion being at 10.0 in my ini, which is necessary for a variety of other reasons. You should actually get more GE the slower you go (and the lower you go, of course, with no significant GE with the rotor disc one rotor disc diameter from the ground), such that at RBS speed you get no significant benefit from GE. ETL does eventually slightly decrease if you go extremely fast, but this is mostly drag overtaking the effect, and by then you're close to RBS again, anyway.

3. Muted yaw on coaxials in FM2 needs fixing next. Makes them and much of FM 2 basically unusable right now.

4. Fix rotor brake engaging when you jump into an aircraft already in flight. Autopilot also sometimes is off. Falling out of the sky abruptly could be categorized as a FM problem.

5. Vibration from extreme cyclic and also on extreme coaxial yaw changes, so like from -1 to 1 of the roll axis in a split second would apply most vibration, and that same amount slower or a less amount just as fast would be less vibration induced briefly. Have it IAS-compensated, too, like the current banking angle vibration is, which is a good thing, by the way. Coning effects from just holding a bank causes some vibration, so don’t get rid of that. Edit: On the vibration, I forgot to add to the list the part about it needing to happen additionally moving in and out of ETL.

6. Main rotor damage from the more extreme #5 for longer lengths of time. Less length of time means less chance of damage. More extreme handling requires less time to cause damage. First instance causes some damage and main rotor oscillations, continued extreme handling after a few seconds of oscillations or another instance causes loss of main rotor. The damage and vibration threshold could lower when you are already damaged. Obviously the vibration and noise will be a warning this might occur before the first instance occurs.

7. Try to put RPM effects from FM2 into FM0/1, or at least make similar RPM response effects in FM0/1. The RPM effects in general need be greater even in FM2, so more sluggish RPM response and opposite effect even with very large and fast collective changes. Excessive RPM and eventually damage with rotor disengaged is already occurring with FM2. Rotor engaged effects are too slight right now, though. In general, RPM and lift needs to also increase sooner when you lower collective and nose down with rotor disengaged. During autorotation you manage RPM that way immediately, while currently there’s a lag for the first few seconds and you require a ridiculous amount of IAS and altitude loss to get the RPM to start increasing.

8. Add an axis in-sim for yaw scaling for people that don’t want to use PPJoy/GlovePIE. All the way to one end and you get normal full yaw available on the yaw axis, other end of axis and you get some fraction. Probably bringing the axis that’s been smoothed and added 2 then to the power of 1 is sufficient rather than a power of 2, which gives you a divider of 1 at minimum (the original axis), around 2 on the center of the axis, and a divider of 3 at max attenuation. A power of 2 for 1 of the axis itself plus 2 at max gives a divider of 9, which is excessive unless you’re doing crazy stuff with the ini yaw drag and acceleration Dynamics.
*Another method: https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4555477/re-crosscoupling-poll#Post4555477

9. Yaw is too fast and ramping up on coaxials on FM0/1. The most extreme yaw rates in a hover are related to an acceleration or ramp up and increases dramatically after extended continuous pedal. It appears worse with higher altitude or collective. While yaw drag should not be mimicking yaw damping and yaw acceleration is really the wrong value to be adjusting, I don’t know how much of max yaw is dictated by the GWUT. A separate yaw damper parameter may be necessary. The only current damping reference in the source code is on wheel suspension.

10. In FM 0 and 2, auto coordinated turning mixes in too much yaw at low an IAS. Turn coordination needs to not occur until well into translational lift, and then only more slightly at low speed and to keep FPM centered during bank at higher speeds. 50-60kts is usually a good threshold. Right now on FM 0 and 2 it seems almost completely proportional to banking regardless of IAS or direction as if it's an inherent part of the roll physics independent of the aircraft's own yaw capability, making side slipping in a hover impossible without counter yaw, which is difficult to do predictably, as well as adding to yaw capability. So, for instance, on FM2 with coaxial helos, you clearly get more yaw by rolling than you do with the pedals. There should also be no turn coordination when going backward ever. Of course FM 1 doesn’t have a lack of ease of side slipping when in a hover...

11. FM 1 should really just be FM 0 without coordinated turns. The yaw streamlining when in forward flight is too weak right now to be remotely realistic in FM 1, though its current lack of coordinated turning is slightly useful considering the current ways it mixes in too soon in FM 0 and 2. Hypothetically, FM 1 could simply be removed completely if Auto Turn Coordination became an in-sim options setting like Translational Lift and Ground Effect are… assuming #10 can be done. In contrast, the only reason ETL, GE, and RBS are in-sim settings were so people could turn them off and see how deep the EECH flight model was. It is not easier to fly without ETL and GE, as should be glaringly obvious to anyone trying the current FM 2 with Translational Lift set to "ON" (actually off).

12. Zulu Cobra needs its max IAS and RBS threshold raised. Most other helos need it slightly lowered, but for the meantime I’d probably leave the others where they are.

13. Taxi yawing in FM 2 is not working right, as there seems to be weird force moments occurring, possibly related to the suspension mod interacting with the ‘alternative’ FM coding mod.

14. Ensure wind is part of IAS calculations when there is a headwind or tailwind. Not sure if it is.

15. G-forces head movement is too slow to move, especially on returning back to center.

15.1. Also, if G-forces are monitored on the aircraft, this would be useful for better affecting the sound of the rotors and vibration currently, as some of the ebbing of the sound is reminiscent of the rotors unloading at the top or beginning downward portion of a parabolic ascent, but the timing currently seems somewhat off.

15.2. Crosscoupling is momentarily off when disengaging autopilot.

15.3. There's still a bug where rolling in a, especially a Comanche, will cause a freeze in 1.16.2 while you're inverted.
*This can be replicated by going into a Comanche in 1.16.2 in a campaign (Cuba, Afognak, so far), ASE page showing, turning on the helmet mounted sight, cycling to padlock targets with prev/next target, and rolling.

15.4. Engine power (or I suppose collective pitch or lift calculations themselves) needs to be exponential or log, such that at 30% torque you're getting the equivalent of about 50 or 60% torque that we're currently getting without increasing the maximum available power. It shouldn't take so much torque to taxi (30% torque should be enough) or lift off with the combination of IGE & ETL (more than 30% torque but less than currently), but obviously we don't want to increase total max available lift or power beyond what we're currently getting with dmrl at 0.9 to 1.1 and the global drag at 3.0.

15.5. Hover hold with no altitude hold (where you manually control altitude) is causing collective, torque, or lift calculation issues (or maybe it's only including one engine) compared to 'stable' hover hold with altitude hold that agrees with full manual hovering.

15.6. Translational lift is still too weak in FM 0 & 1, though other values like global air density will have to be changed from 3.0 when it is fixed. Something like a fully loaded Hind should not be able to lift off without ETL, but ETL is too weak currently to provide enough benefit to fully compensate. Obviously FM 2 has ETL and ground lift even weaker than FM 0 & 1.

15.7. While it's too easy to get into VRS right now without tweaks, it's also too simple to get out of. Going to 120% torque should not get you out of a VRS if you still haven't gotten lateral movement, and you shouldn't be able to regain all cyclic authority until either you've at least reduced collective a little or already gotten out of the VRS somehow (wind, moved the cyclic in the direction opposite of the pedal required to keep a heading when adding power, etc). Going to 120% torque briefly is not the solution to VRS, in fact it should make it worse if that's all you do.

15.8. FM 0 & 1 have broken crosscoupling OFF behavior.

15.9. Nose pitch currently changes when in a stable hover hold and you switch FLIR on and off.

15.91. RBS should shift lower below Vne with added weight and higher G-forces.

15.92. Like to have random oscillations and vibration when near and behind other aircraft, based on front aircraft's size (total weight as proxy).

15.93. At highest altitudes, low density, and/or high temperatures, the engine compressor stages should reach their limits before you overtorque. Compressor stage performance is the limiting factor of max cruise altitude, not torque. Obviously at lower altitudes and temperatures, the current method of over torquing first is appropriate.

15.94. The Kiowa may have its RBS happening slightly too soon but definitely has way too much power such that it's very easy to reach the never exceed speed. Some of its analog dials are also giving wrong quantities..

16. Later on we can figure out a way to add my GlovePIE scripts into EECH so people have to do less setup. I will work on having three control modes where you double tap the trimmer button to change to each with a voice telling you the mode. First will be the current default pitch and roll wings level mode with manual trimmer. Second mode will be same as first but with auto trimming of pitch. Third will be full dynamic auto trim like the above posted scripts.

17. As for FM stuff off the top of my head, the final step before a complete rewrite of the FM code of EECH would be simply to find a way to stop the continuous roll that occurs past a certain roll angle. That way you could roll inverted, stop applying X axis, and it will stay. Right now, past about 0.40/-0.40 on X, you get this continuous roll. So when you are finally inverted, you have to deflect a bit back in the opposite direction to hold the attitude rather than just release stick pressure. This appears to be part of this artificial wings leveling it’s doing.

Non-FM wish list stuff:

18. I would like a view mode that keeps the FPM in the center of the view as you maneuver.

19. Calling in artillery or air strikes don’t seem to be working. Not sure if that’s actually a bug or just a misperception on my part. *Correction: Artillery calls requests work sometimes in Taiwan! Any other campaigns? Air strikes?

20. AI helos landing on top of helos.

21. Carriers don’t seem to be protected by CAPs or the rest of their group ships very well.

22. The game’s low-level foot of its contrast curve or gamma seems off, like you’d need a pro-quality CRT or an OLED to see any detail in shadows. I don’t mean just at night, which by the way I turn down to 0.3 darkness usually in the ini to make the NVG necessary. The gamma just seems oddly skewed. I can sort of adjust for this with my monitor or with NVidia settings, but it might be worth checking out.

23. The ability to change the amount of dust or have the dust change depending on environment. Deserts should have the most, obviously, and are fine where they are, but most other environments have too much dustout effect. Maybe use the same flag as clouds not being in deserts to have them get the full dust out and everywhere else get 50% of that amount.

24. Add jettison stores. Ctrl + J. Useful for increasing lift after engine failure.

25. Previous/next target both cycling in the same direction bug is also present in 1.16.1, so might be quite old. *Correction: Yes, bug from the beginning it looks like.

26. Escorts are being assigned way too late.

27. Recon mission transmission allowance needs to be much further away from X. For that matter, any helo should be able to transmit recon data whenever you want to update the campaign map.
*Seems to work. I will also include my latest ini again, but the recon fix is in this GWUT1162e.csv file.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14s9kHl9L2HZFGcB5ATCjLqiH_xvCFVAr?usp=sharing

28. Jumping into a landed helo at a FARP to start a mission that you have to activate the rotor and its gear is retracted with ongoing multi systems failures.

29. Swap the payload menu Hellfire L and R designations back from their technical designations to the original designations (L for laser, R for radar) the game used that are still used on the HMD and MFDs.

30. New issue in 1.16.2 where the sound stops working until restarting EECH.

31. In some campaigns you irreparably become immortal, with infinite weapons and fuel, and must restart the campaign.

32. The horizon is too bright at night when it's not just before dawn or just after dusk.

33. Wingmen need to employ weapons using their longest-range weapon at standoff range when told to hold position and then are ordered to attack a target.

34. FLIR targets need to be saved.

35. All detected targets should be shared between your flight as if there is an automatic data link, at the very least for the heads-down situational display, which should be able to be utilized for at least targeting Hellfires and aiming an aircraft's own FLIR.

36. SAM engagement envelope should decrease probability of acquisition at very low altitudes and/or at low altitudes when you're directly in front of a hill or objects. Currently you can get shot down by radars meant for airborne targets even when you're landed and even when you're landed right in front of a building. The only radars that should be capable of discriminating such a landed target is a radar meant for ground targets.

37. Ground and object temperature values for FLIR and IR missile homing. Include burning objects and sun angle in IR homing.

38. Vikhrs sometimes just fire into the ground repeatedly even though a target is properly lased.

39. Comanche can damage its tail on ground contact too easily.

40. Besides the Zulu Cobra 'Viper' needing higher top speed, its gun should only be holding 750 rounds, not 1345.

source code for Comanche, SupCobra, SeaCobra, and Viper: #define NUM_CANNON_ROUNDS (1345)

41. Comanche radar mast is too short.

42. The same message should not be sent by one AI unit more than once in a row. If it's the same message that unit previously said, that comms should not be sent again, such as "Python 1 seeking firing position" over and over.

43. Flight path marker and horizon line on HMD does not adjust with changing HMD pitch.

44. Allow us to choose NVG color (green, orange, original different ones for sides, or grayscale) and IR mode.

45. Hind vertical speed needle disappearing.

46. Be nice to have a marker on the situational display of where your EO/FLIR system is currently locked.

47. Turn to target with H in EO display and target locked should work even when there is no target locked, even when not in hover, and needs more yaw authority.

48. Damaged hydraulics could gradually degrade based on how much change occurs in the flight controls, from one extreme of that axis to another as the above added vibration characteristics would be tracking. More gradual and slight control changes, such as slower banks, would cause less reduction of hydraulic pressure over time. A hydraulics page could show pressure. As pressure decreases there could be more control delay. As controls are moved, pressure gradually reduces. Damaged hydraulics can cause a tendency for the pilot to try to overcompensate which can cause pressure to drop even faster. When hydraulics are damaged, it is essential to be gentle with the controls and patient with the response of the aircraft to preserve control authority until RTB and landing.

49. A pilot roster and search & rescue operations.

50. Smarter overall AI with AI pilot skill that improves over time with experience.

51. Be nice if AI didn't fly through trees, even though they are invulnerable to them.

52. EO system keeps randomly unlocking targets, also seems low-capability on some helos.

53. Ground stabilization doesn't seem to be working well even when set to 1 in the ini. *Correction: you need to use Ctrl+S, though it isn't as strong an effect as locking to the ground.

54. SAMs have an infinite magazine. That's a problem. Perhaps have a finite number, a reload of that number at an interval dependent on distance from nearest large base, and the frequency that missiles are launched determined by how many the unit has.

55. A finite number of persons, especially infantry, and medevac missions to nearest big bases is a long shot wish. Seems appropriate with many bodies around FARPs sometimes. Maybe remaining infantry should be doing something... running or attending to them.

56. The more times you've over-torqued or rolled or looped inverted in a flight, the longer the maintenance turnaround time is for the helo after RTB and ending flight.

57. Ctrl+J appears to cause eject in Hokum B right now in F12 viewer."

58. The launch HUD symbology on the Hokum B should not be shifting when you look down to see the whole cockpit.

59. Radio menu to set NDB frequency required to change for FARPs and airfield communication.

60. Some trees don't show up in NVG/FLIR, but obviously you can still crash into them.

61. Make the Comanche in FLIR when still living or freshly wrecked gray instead of fully white.


***

The previously-mentioned ini Dynamics tweaks have repeatedly borne out to be the best I can get for FM0 even after repeatedly trying to deviate from them.

***

Current collective settings to mitigate some of the unrealistically-excessive deceleration capability at 0% torque and ease of getting into VRS (keeps the min 10% as previously) and unrealistic overly-gradual bottom of collective (you should get more pitch and torque at lower collective setting), and to allow the Saitek mil-power detent to be first stage of over-torque (this Zone2 setting may need tweaking based on throttle model). In this case I reach mil-power detent accidentally and back it off slightly. Allows full collective for temporary max torque. Combined with the GlovePIE script, the middle of collective becomes more nuanced. The EECH nonlinear collective code is not really nonlinear but rather only changes the min and max.

nonlinear-collective-zone1=0.4 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 60% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.0 = max) (def = 0.3)
nonlinear-collective-zone2=0.9 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 100% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.2 = max) (def = 0.7)
nonlinear-collective-percentage-at-zone1=50.0 # collective percentage at zone1. Valid values are in range from 1.0 to 99.0, default is 60.0.

***

Latest GlovePIE script (Edited 3-8-2021) for use with PPJoy. I have stopped dev on the pulsing yaw. I believe just leaving yaw divider as an axis assignment and putting it at 50% or slightly below (for US helos) is usually sufficient combined with some gentleness. This script also works for Comanche Gold, particularly the nonlinear collective for Vertical Stabilization, but I have many other scripts for that sim, too.


GlovePIE script for use with PPJoy:

var.nlzs = sign(Joystick2.z) // Collective nonlinearity that can be made more gradual near center.
var.nlzm = abs(Joystick2.z)^(1.0) // Previous Exponent of 2.0 for true nonlinear with large gradation in the middle, but 1.0 is linear.
var.nlz = var.nlzm * var.nlzs

var.yawrange = (smooth(deadzone(joystick2.slider, 0.008), 10) + 2 ) ^ 1 // Bottom throttle thumb rotary assigned as a yaw range.

var.nlzrots = sign(Joystick1.zrot) //Nonlinear pedals.
var.nlzrotm = abs(Joystick1.zrot)^(2.0) //1 will make it linear. Higher, less linear.
var.nlzrot = var.nlzrotm * var.nlzrots

if var.nlzrot = 0 then { //Better pedal fix.
var.pedalfix = -0.999999
else
var.pedalfix = var.nlzrot // pedals
}

var.dial = smooth(deadzone(joystick2.dial, 0.008), 10) //yaw trim

if shift+t then begin { //Auto trim clear
var.xhold = 0
var.yhold = 0
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)
PPJoy1.Analog5 = (var.pedalfix / 1 - var.dial / 20 ) / var.yawrange //For pedals. Usually bypassed unless FM 0 or 1 with coaxials.

else

var.xhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) / 30 + var.xhold, -.4, .4) //Roll auto trimming. Over -.5/.5 causes continuous roll, but -.75/.75 is nicely responsive.
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + deadzone(joystick2.x, 0.075) //Roll
var.yhold = EnsureRange(deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075)/ 30 + var.yhold, -.75, .75) //Pitch auto trimming
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + deadzone(joystick2.y, 0.075) //Pitch
PPJoy1.Analog2 = var.nlz * 0.7 - 0.15 //Collective currently reducing/adjusting range to prevent overpowering VRS and to reduce decel
PPJoy1.Analog5 = (var.pedalfix / 1 - var.dial / 20 ) / var.yawrange //For pedals. Now with yawrange on thumb dial.

}

var.GPbank = PPJoy1.Analog0
var.GPpitch = PPJoy1.Analog1
var.GPcollective = PPJoy1.Analog2
var.GPyaw = PPJoy1.Analog5

var.xaxis = Joystick2.x
var.yaxis = Joystick2.y
var.zaxis = Joystick2.z
var.zrot = Joystick2.zrot
var.slider = Joystick2.slider
var.xrot = Joystick2.xrot
var.yrot = Joystick2.yrot
var.dial = Joystick2.dial


//These buttons below are not used in EECH, but do not appear harmful. For other sims.

PPJoy1.Digital0 = Joystick2.Button1
PPJoy1.Digital1 = Joystick2.Button2
PPJoy1.Digital2 = Joystick2.Button3
PPJoy1.Digital3 = Joystick2.Button4
PPJoy1.Digital4 = Joystick2.Button5
PPJoy1.Digital5 = Joystick2.Button6
PPJoy1.Digital6 = Joystick2.Button7
PPJoy1.Digital7 = Joystick2.Button8
PPJoy1.Digital8 = Joystick2.Button9
PPJoy1.Digital9 = Joystick2.Button10
PPJoy1.Digital10 = Joystick2.Button11
PPJoy1.Digital11 = Joystick2.Button12
PPJoy1.Digital12 = Joystick2.Button13
PPJoy1.Digital13 = Joystick2.Button14
PPJoy1.Digital14 = Joystick2.Button15
PPJoy1.Digital15 = Joystick2.Button16
PPJoy1.Digital16 = Joystick2.Button17
PPJoy1.Digital17 = Joystick2.Button18
PPJoy1.Digital18 = Joystick2.Button19
PPJoy1.Digital19 = Joystick2.Button20
PPJoy1.Digital20 = Joystick2.Button21
PPJoy1.Digital21 = Joystick2.Button22
PPJoy1.Digital22 = Joystick2.Button23
PPJoy1.Digital23 = Joystick2.Button24
PPJoy1.Digital24 = Joystick2.Button25
PPJoy1.Digital25 = Joystick2.Button26
PPJoy1.Digital26 = Joystick2.Button27
PPJoy1.Digital27 = Joystick2.Button28
PPJoy1.Digital28 = Joystick2.Button29
PPJoy1.Digital29 = Joystick2.Button30
PPJoy1.Digital30 = Joystick2.Button31


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If we want to get really technical, the Apache minimum torque with rotor fully to speed when on the ground while collective is completely lowered is 6%. Something like this will give you that, though I still think perhaps the 10% minimum may be better for reducing capacity to unrealistically quickly decelerate.

nonlinear-collective-zone1=0.4 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 60% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.0 = max) (def = 0.3)
nonlinear-collective-zone2=0.9 # non-linear control value for throttle (n = % throttle position joystick to represents 100% collective) (10% = 0.1) (0.0 = off (linear control), 1.2 = max) (def = 0.7)
nonlinear-collective-percentage-at-zone1=54.0 # collective percentage at zone1. Valid values are in range from 1.0 to 99.0, default is 60.0.

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See this related thread:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4554183/all/crosscoupling-poll

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[your collective axis] * 0.7 - 0.15.

I've been trying to mitigate lately both EECH's excessive tendency to decelerate rapidly and more importantly the crazy amount of overtorque power we can get. The diminishing return of very high engine torque is not properly being modeled, and therefore we can not only slow down too fast or VRS too easily, but then are able to just power out of VRS. Adding this math to the collective axis is one way of dealing with both on the Saitek throttle with EECH's internal collective option set to linear. This returns the minimum collective torque with engine spooled up completely at about 10%, first rearward detent at 90% with no cyclic or trim applied, and 97% fully rearward with no cyclic or trim applied. Applying cyclic or trim will obviously add slight overtorque. With this, I cannot decelerate too rapidly and I cannot simply power through a VRS by yanking to 120% torque. With VRS, I must really try to get lateral movement.

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Newer GWUT I've been using to tweak the gameplay balance. Rename it your current GWUT or edit the EECH.ini file appropriately to use it. If you want to edit the GWUT itself, use a text editor. YMMV, of course in terms of whether you like these changes or not. I tweak it weekly, it seems. I wanted stronger weak weapons, more variety, and an RAH-66 that isn't so dominant on the battlefield, among other things. The RAH-66 was getting overweight with all its increasing systems requirements prior to cancellation, so removing some armor or re-imagining its composite resistance to rounds as absorption durability and redundancy, but not outright deflection is not totally implausible. Coaxials are a hand full to fight with, particularly their weapons compared to the American stuff, so I allowed them more armor as if all that reserve power lets them keep slapping that stuff on. The 20mm gun is also more precise than before, creating a greater contrast compared to some of the others like the Apache's.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n3DUCoXDh0JvFSObCKLLLtqZnI6lPRzS/view?usp=sharing

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My latest ini and gwut:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qvC9jw2B1mAwqZDIkodqQuAeUVOVySRo?usp=sharing

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Latest ini and gwut with recon transmit fix June 1, 2021:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14s9kHl9L2HZFGcB5ATCjLqiH_xvCFVAr?usp=sharing

***

The lopsided power-curve on all FMs, weak translational lift on FM 2 (even set to off to activate it), and broken taxiing on FM 2 continue to make it difficult to recommend as the default flight model, which is why I continue to recommend crosscoupling on and using FM 0.

I have determined the ini setting of drv = 0.2 allows FM 0 with Hokum B to be used without a yaw divider or additional source code changes (reduce yaw authority inversely with speed or allow it directly proportional to speed), but unfortunately this makes the Blackshark useless until it's changed back. It also doesn't seem to help the Hind. The coaxials in FM 0 appear to use the drag 'rudder' value as a kind of coaxial differential that governs max available yaw rotation, and the Hokum B in FM 0 is tuned too high and the Blackshark is tuned too low. Keeping this low for the Hokum B isn't that terrible for the tail rotor helos, except that it's as if they have no yaw damping channel. A 0.3 or 0.4 might be a good compromise, but still breaks the shark. 0.5 for FM 2 isn't so bad and only makes the Comanche a little touchy, but still does nothing for the Hokum B.

The dyn files seem to have no significant effect on the actual flight dynamics that I can tell. The ones in the dynamics folder are supposedly for FM 0 & 1 and the ones outside it are for FM 2, but I see little to no indication they are actually used. FM 1 is obviously also ceasing to include yaw weathervaning at all and this is hard coded into the sim, so there's precedent for thinking other flight dynamics are currently hard coded now instead of largely using the dyn files.

One other interesting aspect of FM 2, though, is that it does have better yaw weathervaning for tail rotor helos than FM 0 does. FM 0 only exhibits this on the Hokum B at all speeds. FM 0 tail rotor helos actually tune this effect mostly out once you're going above about 60 KIAS, which is weird. That tune-out effect is what should actually be happening for the coordinated turning below about 60 KIAS. Anyway, FM0 tail rotor helos above 60 KIAS do this weird thing where using the pedals sluggishly just yaws you and you mostly stay at that new heading without much wobble back at all towards the direction you were in. I suppose we could just chalk that up to the faux AFCS system at work, but the fact FM 2 tail rotor helos do it more accurately (for the most part) is very interesting. FM 2's weathervaning in the yaw is also very dependent on the helo, with the Comanche having the least and allowing substantially more side slip flight... even if the auto turn coordination makes it difficult to do well.

I did also discover another fault in the lift modeling for FM 2, though: When you try to do side slip flight in at least the tail rotor helos in FM 2, you get a sudden drastic reduction of lift from the main rotor disc.





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