Apache avionics modernization program [work in progress]

I'm in the process of updating the Apache's avionics to make them more realistic. I've found quite a bit of information about how they work in the real Longbow, and I'm trying to implement as much of it as possible in EECH. Among the things is that all four of the Longbow's radar modes will be modelled, and the exact procedures for firing Hellfires will be modelled.

This is going to make the Apache much more realistic, much more like a study sim. I realize that everyone may not want this, so I'm goint to introduce a new realism level, and only used the new avionics at the most realistic level, so that those who prefer the current avionics can continue to use them.

Much of how the Longbow is controlled is via the MFDs, and the push buttons around them. EECH doesn't have clickable cockpits, but I've I've made the MFDs themselves clickable, so that you can simulate button presses by pressing the corresponding label inside the MFD. All of the MFD pages are being updated to have clickable labels, and a lot of new functionallity and new pages are being added.

Now this is of course a work in progress, and a lot of work remains. But just to give you an idea of about some of the new and updated pages, I've included some screenshots.

Here's how the cockpit looks now. On the right MFD is the updated TSD page, and on the left is the radar in Terrain Profile Mode (TPM). TPM is a navigation mode for low visibillity and basically shows where it's safe to fly.


The updated engine page. It has mostly the same information as the old one, but a little different layout, and with colors:


The new fuel page shows general fuel status, and also allows you to cross feed the engines from either tank, or transfer fuel between the tanks:


This is the radar in RMAP mode. It's much like ground target mode, but it also shows the terrain (and possibly most useful the terrain shadow, so you know what parts are unknown and where enemy units may still be hiding):


The TSD in waypoint mode allows you to edit the route or waypoints, including adding new ones (by e.g. flying over them, or by lasing a point with TADS).


The ADF page controls the Apache's radio navigation equipment, and allows you to navigate by radio beacons.


The check list page has checklists for various items.


I'll continue to update this thread as I finish more of the avionics.

I'm Speechless Arneh

YES, Dude you are the BEST. I hope you will finish this project. Looking Forward to this I just love Stuff like this the systems are so Cool as you have them now, I cant wait to see the finished product.. Do you need a BETA Tester or some Help with some mundane work, ?Im retired and could use the work to keep me busy ??

I was thinking on these lines the other day if the Apache and Commanche had more detailed Systems it would make the sim more interesting. This may draw more interest back into EECH GREAT more people for MP as it is all but None left

Also do you have a link or some of that info to read, you aquired about the Apache?? I sure would like to read it ??

Yeah, those are darn good. I've been working on some of those pages for another project. Will you be including a TEDAC panel for the front seat? Getting good data has been a problem.

WAWAWAWOOOEEE...WOW...WOW...JUST WOW!!!

Mind blowing!

Insane love your work ARNEH

Outstanding work (as always!) Arneh!

Just curious?.....Will the Comanche MFD's feel any of the "love" of this update?

Shocked and Awed!

speechless !!
ARNEH YOU DA MAN!!!!
if you do not accept donation try to schedule a trip to Napoli, a huge PIZZA is waiting for you...

I'll document the avionics, and all I know about the real ones too.



No, the EECH-Apache is an older model with the ORT. I have more information about the older models




No, Apache only for now. That's the one I have documentation about.





Haha, thanks for the offer

Wow! :shock: That is incredible!

WOW, AWESOME!!

Simply amazing. Nice work there.

So am i correct in assuming this is for Apache/Havoc?

No, it's for EECH. No modding is going on for EEAH.

Holy ....!!!

Sweet!!!!

arneh, you sure know how to make a girl happy
http://forum.combatace.com/topic/49478-new-apache-avionics-wip/page__view__findpost__p__354925

Fantastic Arneh.Thankyou!!!
Its fast becoming my favourite sim.

Is it possible to get UDP's from the programme??

I am wanting more and more to replicate this pit for real

Regards

I think Memory Export does export the upfront display too, if that's what you meant. Though not sure about the new one with more lines. Will have to check that.

It makes me wish I was into helo sims.

pfunk

Lord God. You should do this for a living if you don't, Arneh.

Miao, Cat

Great work Arneh!!

Just when I get tired of this sim you bring it back to life!! Can you expand upon the more realistice Hellfire launch modes??? Will you sort out the Radar and laser guided hellfires being launched with proper parameters met, like a radar hellfire not being launchable when you have a lased target and FCR off??? Or in real life is that possible?? Hopefully you know all the answers now!! Thanks again, yu are the best!!

I do program for a living. But not simulators.





I have several pages of procedures for how to setup and fire Hellfires in various situations, so it would be too much to list all of that here And I haven't implemented this part yet, so better ask when I'm done.
But it will include setting up with launch profiles (high, low etc), firing mode (single fire, riple fire, rapid fire etc), laser code for laser hellfires, activating missiles etc.




Yes, radar Hellfires may be fired at TADS targets. But it does require a little procedure to hand over the target from the TADS to the missile.

Perfect arneh!

Just a question: are you a the only one coding EECH?

Thanks for your continued efforts Arneh. It sure is nice to have you in this community.

No, there are others too. Although I've certainly been the most active for the last three years.

Well, if you need credentials, just post the message and direct your employer here

Really incredible. I gave up EECH (it was hard with the incredible Arneh Apache) when I got a new computer with Vista - but I'm going to have to install it now to get ready for the updates.

I'm truly amazed at the level of work that is being done. Turning this into a study sim is an incredible undertaking. It may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I think the pace at which the Apache is getting more and more complex is actually aiding people in getting deeper and deeper into it as the complexity deepens. It really is an incredible ride we're all on.

Thank you so much for what you do Arneh.

Good deal. Looking forward to this. Thanks a millon arneh.

Vince

It's amazing, too cool.

big props.

Holy hot damn. I just saw this. Wow!

As always, Arneh still amazes us all.
BTW, maybe Arneh is not just 1 guy, but the entire (former) Razorworks crew in disguise

I haven't updated this thread for quite some time now, so I guess it's about time

Not that nothing has happened, but it's mostly things which doesn't show up as much in screenshots. Like working on the radar modelling. But some things do show in screenshots.

I've been working on updating the HUD a little. First of all I've increased the resolution of the HUD texture, and I've made sure it remains the same size (relative to the screen) no matter what resolution you use. Though the higher HUD resolution does look a little squished when you run at 640x480... Do anyone still use that low resolution?

Also the radar is now able to show target markers on the HUD (if you enable the C-scope button on the radar MFD page), which looks like this:


Also for the Terrain Profile Mode (which is mostly for navigation in bad visibilty) the radar will draw profile lines on the HUD (also only if the C-scope button is enabled)


It will also show obstacles and hazzards the radar detects, like buildings, antennas and power pylons:


I've also worked a bit on the MFD pages, but mostly smaller changes. One which has had a bigger overhaul is the weapons page, this is for the gun. It now allows you to select burst size and put the gun in fixed mode (where it only fires straight ahead).

Really incredible how you are implementing things into the HUD view. Can you explain the c-scope actually is. I've seen that button on the ORT, but never bothered to find out what it was.

This will be so awesome to fly when it comes.

It just puts radar symbology on the HUD (and the ORT).

Bad Ass Arneh!

Bad ass...

Thank you. I guess I'll have to reserve that function for the ORT I'm trying to put together then. Ah, you are making me very happy.

I had to pay close to $300 Canadian in an Ebay duel to get my copy of EECH. Sure I was swept away by the competition of the moment, but I would say that with everything you have done I have gotten every penny of the $300 dollars in use and enjoyment. Never regretted it and it looks like you will be taking me even further away from any possible regret. I have gotten so much enjoyment out of this title because of you.

Thank you for all of this.

What is the LRFD and LAST button do on the WPN page?

It determines if it should use the first or last reading when ranging with the laser (LRFD = Laser Range Finder).

Wow, that was really nice! I can't wait to see the final result! Nice work guys!

Amazing work =) my congratulations !!

Really cool stuff.. Man..what a project! I can't wait to do the next EECH Update article!

I want it now!!

That's spectacular work! No wonder it's cold in Oslo, you're using all our electrical power working on your computer That's some insane coding right there!

As always, outstanding work, Arneh! I needed to cancel my project due to real life issues. It is good to see you're still going strong. Looking forward to it!

Happy 2010!

Great work! can you update FLIR video too?

The real FLIR video always like this:

|- -|
+
|- -|
EECH was only:

+

Are you talking about the field of view gates? If so, they only appear if there is a more narrow field of view available (they show what your field of view would be if you switched to the next narrower field of view). When you're in the most narrow field of view, those gates will not be there.

The gates to which I am referring would be item "O" in the attached picture.

Just out of curiosity, what's "F"?

And I guess "E" as well.

I'm gonna take a guess..but I don't know..

I'd guess that maybe "E" is the sensor direction for the other pilot or CP/G and "F" looks sort of like a symbol you'd get when your Hellfire is out of gimbal constraints (dashed line)..?

Do I get any points or do I go back to school?

Ah crap, when you mentioned "E" I was thinking "I should have remembered that" because they talked about that in Ed Macy's book. "F" makes a lot of sense.

Thanks!

Well..I don't know if that is right or not..but I just read Macy's book about 2 months ago..so maybe that triggered something in my head or something.

yeah! this picture is the reality FILR video,it would be exciting if the E(machinegun line) and I(gun position) could be added to game too !

Almost

F is, as you note, the Hellfire constraints, like on the HUD.

E is the cued LOS reticle. It can show the direction of the other pilot's helmet, but it can also show the direction of other sensors, like the TADS (more interesting when shown on the HUD), radar target, RFI contact, missile seeker, waypoint/target point etc.

E and I is not for the gun. E is as I explain the cued LOS reticle, and I shows the position of the same relative to the field of view.

Great man! Im waiting your 1.14 patch! I think that would exceed DCS !

Thanks for the quick education Arneh! I knew you would know!

Note that the pic I posted is for an AH-64A. Although it's mostly the same as the AH-64D, there are a few differences. Sorry about not posting a key to the picture. I'll do that as soon as I can, should clear a few things up.

I take it that that pic came out of the AH-64A manual? If that's the case then arneh can look up what the symbols mean as he has a copy of it.

I had a quick look and it is in fact from the AH-64A Technical Manual. For those of you that don't have it, or for arneh's quick reference, here it is with the descriptions (I took screenshots and then stitched them all together)...
http://digitality.emenace.com/temp/tads-symbology.jpg

Wow, just coming back round to EECH and Arneh strikes again! Looking very nice already.

Thanks for that Flyboy. Very helpful.

Are theese available for download somwhere arneh?

No, it's not finished yet.

Darn, i cant wait looks B-E-Autifull!

Agreed i also cant wait for this brilliant add on which is gonna bring hours of enjoyment just to the operation of the AH64's systems....

Yes, it looks very promising, any eta, Arneh?

No. I'll work on it until it's done, but don't know how long it will take.

at the risk of being to pushy, any chance of an update and maybe some more screenshots for us to drool over..?

He has it all done and finished but he likes this part where he can keep us dangling and trickling little bits of info and sexy screenshots to us. Bad, bad man...




I'm kidding obviously great work you do Arneh, cheers.

Awesome work.

Do you know if this will work with Aeyes payware hi res cockpit? Or do we have to overwrite that?

Cheers

It works both with and without it.

Great thanks.

Very much appreciate the work - this looks so good I bought the game now as a new player even though I have DCS Black Shark. Black shark is lacking a good campaign and I've clocked too many hours in the Russian bird.

I'll be firing up the Apache tonight and reading some more Ed Macy soon

Must...resist...innuendo....

I'm reading Ed Macy's book too at the moment, great read.

It's a shame that EECH can only really simulate conventional war (both sides have tanks/helicopters). Some Counter Insurgency missions would be awesome.

ARNEH, On the Topic of British Apaches.. what is the probability of adding CRV7 as a rocket type? My understanding is that they are significantly more accurate that the US Hydra70.

His second book Hell Fire I'm reading now. Just as good as the first in my opinion. I'm only a quarter or less into it and just like the first one I have this sad feeling that comes with the knowledge that like the first, this book too will end eventually.

Arneh

Will the following new product be usable with the new update please?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002HH9TRY/

Many thanks

Probably not from the start. Not sure how that works, if it needs keyboard presses or joystick buttons. But neither of those are likely until we have remapping of keys available.

Another problem is that the Apache's MFDs have more buttons (6 general buttons per side, plus some special purpose buttons), while that one only has 5 per side...

Arneh

Looking at the docs, it seems that it appears as a multi-button joystick device. So I was going to buy a set and use AutoHotKey to capture the key-presses and transfer them to EECH.

I realise that it does not have the same number of buttons as an Apache MFD, however to have one custom built I have had a couple of quotes in the region of £200-300 per MFD! (I have produced a 3D model suitable for importing into a CNC mill.)

At about £70 for a set of 2, this is an absolute bargain for pit builders as it can also be mounted flat (with the base removed) in a simpit...

Cheers

Yes, I completly agree with you! Also IMO the biggest drawback of EECH (including the latest versions) is that this sim hardly models infantry soldiers (on foot). Unfortunally this is a trend which affects almost every helicopter sim ever made with the exception of DI's Hind which was IMO the only helo sim that modeled infantry foot soldiers with a decent and good degree of accuracy!
This is a decision that I never understood since gunship helicopters (and also transport/assault ones) are supposed to support and work very closely with friendly frontline ground forces fighting against enemy frontline ground forces and as everyone can easily imagine the main and most numerous unit of ANY and ALL army units in the world specially the ones on the frontline is BY FAR the foot infantry soldier!

At first what I really would like to see in future versions of EECH is MUCH, MUCH MORE infantry units not only in the bases but specially in the front lines together with mechanized units! Infantry units are already modeled in EECH but they are unfortunally VERY FEW and it's rare to see any foot infantry soldier in a EECH mission or campaign (and most of those few ones are soldiers armed with Stingers and Strelas) and those rare ones are only located around bases well inside friendly or enemy territory and NONE are to be found near the frontlines!
I would like to see this as a priority for future updates/patches in EECH and IMO doing this MUST be the first step so that somewhere in the future we could have Counter-Insurgency missions/campaigns.


This is perhaps the main reason why my current "helicopter sim" that I play the most is in fact ArmA2!

IMPRESSIVE!!!

Quick question: will cockpit be clickeable?

Regards!!

No, just MFDs.

could we find the new flir-MFD in new version? such as rocket instructions or TDS fov gates and so.

Arneh

Can I please ask if you will be changing the MFD screens to have labels/text on the actual MFD model in the cockpit or on the actual MFD screen inside the bezel?

I have got one the Thrustmaster MFDs up and running now and surrounding an MFD screen that is being displayed on another monitor. To translate the key presses you do need an external program running, such as AutoHotKey... This however does seem to work quite nicely

The devices simply present themselves as a multi-button joystick with 28 buttons and apparently you can have up to 8 plugged in at any one time!

(Full-size Thrustmaster MFD properties pic)

Cheers

I don't get what you're asking for here...




As for using those devices, it probably won't be possible until we have mapping of keyboard/joystick buttons. But that's being worked on by somebody else.

Arneh

So in the updated version, will the text describing each of the MFDs button function, appear on the MFD screen (an example shown highlighted in red)? Or do you have another method in mind? Does the picture explain better what I am asking please?

You can already use the Thrustmaster MFDs by running AutoHotKey and mapping each of the keys pressed into the game - it will take a while to write the AutoHotKey script though...

Cheers

As you can see from all the screenshots there's labels on the display describing the buttons' current function.



But the buttons don't currently have any keypresses assigned. And since there are about 30 of them for each MFD, that would be a lot of keyboard shortcuts which would have to be mapped. And hard to make something which doesn't conflict with existing keys. So better wait for remapping of keys/controls first.

Whoops my bad for not looking at the first page properly!

Ok next question, will it be possible to customise the way the lablels are displayed i.e. if I have a 5 button per row MFD (rather than a 6 button one like in a proper Apache)? Or is that a monumental task?

Many thanks for your patience

The buttons are configured like the real Apache, and there is no way of changing that (except changing the exe).

So the Thrustmaster MFDs only having 5 per side is problematic when using it for an Apache MFD which has 6 buttons per side, plus special buttons.

Damn and blast.

So the only way that I am going to be able to use the Thrustmaster MFD is to download the source code once you have finished the new update. Learn to code in C, and then change the way the MFD buttons are displayed.

Or find some way of fabricating an MFD that matches a real Apache, that does not require me to sell my kidney plus anyone else's I can lay my hands on! I have had some quotes to do that and they are truly shocking - approximately £300 per MFD...

The chances of one being released by a games company are about as slim as the chances of a paper dog surviving while chasing an asbestos cat through hell! lol

Thanks anyway Arneh

Well, it's probably better to just wait for keymapping in EECH. Which may be finished before the avionics update for all I know.

But you obviously won't be able to map the real MFDs 30 or so buttons to less than that physical buttons. So some buttons will have to be left out. But not all buttons are necessirly equally important.

Wow, arneh, absolutely great job you have done here!!! Very much looking forward to this one, you got me hooked!

Cheers,

AliiedHawk

so cool,can I control the tads by trackir?

No more teasers? =)

arneh for president!, nice work men, amazing!

???? PLEASE ????? Any chance of an update arneh?

Unfortunately I haven't had much time lately, so not much has happened.

thanks for the quick reply...
don't mean to bother you , just can't wait for the release....

im a likin it keep it up

B-E-Autifull arneh!

Been a while since last update. So here's a few screenshots to show what has happened.

The TADS has gotten an upgrade, with more symbology:


Just to remind us, this is how it looked before modding began. Looks not quite as impressive anymore


This is how it looks when a laser hellfire is tracking:


And this is FLIR:


Top level weapons page:


Hellfire sub page:


Rockets sub page. The buttons along the left side are for selecting which zones of the pod to fire. In real life there are five zones in total which may carry different types of rockets. But in EECH a pod can only carry one type of rockets, at least for now.


Keep in mind that this is not done, these pages will be upgraded further.

EECH + arneh's avionics = DCS Apache

Tremendous work. The Dev team for this game rocks.

Awesome work Arneh!!!

I showed your screenshots on the first page of this thread to a real world Apache pilot and he said they look like the real thing so keep it up, this will just make this sim all the better for me as I only fly the Apache.

Does EECH allow for clicakble MFDs?

As mentioned in the first post, the cockpit is not clickable, but the MFDs themselves will be.

Just remember to call this v. 2.0 when it comes out.

v. 1.xx doesn't do justice to what you're doing

arneh, you may be forcing me to abandon my 'russian choppers only' dogma.


Absolutely stunning. It looks better than my memories of Longbow 2.

(The memories, not what it actually was...)

Omg too long wait for this avionics;) btw any chance for better explosions in next releases?
If correctly I look the explosions have only 5 frames of animation.

I just hope these devs get some first page coverage from the SIMHQ staff on this one.
This, to me, seems as big as any new DCS release.

Yeah looks excellant ARNEH. Its going to be an extremly popular release

So many details be optimized,such as Los Reticle was more thinner.

I can guarantee this..

Awesome beach!!! Hey wheres theese training missions at you put together i keep hearing about btw?

There's links in the sticky thread: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2366722/EECH_Miscellany_install_featur.html

Though the missions were made long ago when EECH was much less modded, so not everything may be up to date.

Yeah..I never did EECH justice. I'd love to expand on them..or completely redo them at some point.

OH YEAH!, that would be GRAND!

I have something I want you to help me decide!

In the Apache many things may have different settings between the two cockpits. E.g. the pilot may have a different weapon selected from the CPG (and both may use them at the same time!).

In EECH we only have one real pilot, you. Do you think it would be useful or confusing or annoying that the two cockpits have different settings. E.g. that if you selected the gun in the back seat, then switched to the front seat and would have to select the gun again?

In the Apache there are tons of settings which the pilot and CPG may set independently. In addition to weapons they may have different targeting system, different LOAL settings, different rocket salvos, gun bursts etc.
Would you think it would be useful to be able to have each cockpit have different settings for these in EECH, and e.g. let the CPG cockpit be for precision attacks, while setting the back cockpit up differently and use it for navigation and quick snapshots? Or would it just be confusing? Or annoying to have to set up all these settings the way you want them twice?

i think it might be nice to have one cockpit in air to ground config and the other in air to air...
so maybe it would be nice to have the choice

I'd love to see fidelity - if separate settings are possible in the Apache then that's how we should find it in EECH - might take you a few flights to get used to the idea, but it would just become part of picking the seat you wanted (and then checking your weapons settings before you lay into a target)

I agree with your final thoughts - i think it be great to have the CP/G set one way (for one type of attack) and the Pilot with another setup - find yourself presented with a target that the CP/G setup would be more efficient in dealing with and just swap seats quickly, rather than having to get your own pit settings in order!

Anyway - just my thoughts on a sunny afternoon!

(First day off in quite a long time and I'm taking advantage by catching up with the sites I like)

Martin...

Thanks for asking. I like the idea.

Ultimately, it would not necessarily make it more confusing, just different than the current. If the objective is to add difficulty, it would achieve this due to the additional setup required to have all weapons and sensors configured, prior to encountering a threat. If the objective is to add realism, my opinion is it would only go half way, meaning the pilots tasks would be different based on a two seat arrangement (real), but then that realism is reduced when one virtual pilot has to think as if he is two different personalities (not real). More challenging, not necessarily more real. A matter of preference, I guess.

For me, what it boils down to is, what sensors would be available most immediately and in the best configuration? Quick execution. If I'm occupying the front seat heads down in the ORT with hellfire selected and co-pilot calls out a close immediate threat, if switching seats to fire cannon at the close threat is more easily available with a one button push (esc), than that's the way to go for me.

My take is, does it make sense to limit the current sensor and/or weapon to one seat at a time? Only if one requires an additional element of difficulty. Kinda like engine realism. If it's not too much more work to make it an optional feature (like engine realism), maybe you can add it as an option.

You may be exploring the future possibilities of what other developers will face if they attempt to pull off a two seat sim and offer the option of one or two players occupying that aircraft in a multiplayer environment.

Needless to say, I love your work.

Arneh IMHO you always doing the most realistic reflection of avionics, if it is not a big problem, much better to do two separate cockpits with the different settings.
Cheers, and thanks for work:)

I don't think it would be all that confusing... but for me it doesn't really matter. I've gotten used to simply sticking with whichever seat in each pit that gives me the best view for both flying and weapons use (front seat in the Comanche, back seat in the Longbow; haven't started flying the additional US helos nor any of the Russian ones yet). I have macros that select both MFD assignments with single button pushes, so relying on ESC to toggle between two setups isn't all that important.

The annoying thing (but I guess realistic) would be taking the time to set up both seats before takeoff, or at least before engagement, so that you could even take advantage of this feature.

I like Re-Ordained suggestion above: Have an eech.ini setting that designates if selections made by the user in one seat it is mirrored in the other seat or not.

Keep in mind that right now MFD settings are already NOT mirrored between seats, so consideration should go into whether or not folks setting this option to always mirror settings would also mirror MFD selection. Maybe this would be a secondary setting in eech.ini if the first option is enabled?

I'd warn against adding so many options to the eech.ini from an accessibility standpoint, but there's already plenty packed in there anyway. Might as well go all out!

Side question since this thread is about avionics, after all: would it be possible to add specific keystrokes to select specific weapons? Right now Alt+Backspace can select the Cannon with a single keystroke, but all other weapons have to be cycled through. I'd love to be able to switch directly to Stingers if enemy helos pop over a ridge while I'm trying to shoot tanks. 9/10 times I get shot down specifically because I'm trying to cycle to a specific weapon and overshoot because it's a cycle and not a direct selection.

Do real attack helicopter gunners actually push a single button multiple times to cycle through all of their available weapons and this is just replicated in the sim, or is this a situation where the real thing has a different button for each weapon and the sim is taking liberties due to limited keystroke combinations being available?

quote from Essobie "The annoying thing (but I guess realistic) would be taking the time to set up both seats before takeoff".
In fact I think it will save myself quite some time later on in missions.
I switch a lot between e.g. Air/Ground radar modes during missions.
One of the issues I have with EECH is the fact that both cockpits are in fact almost the same because you can't do what Arneh offers us to consider.
Maybe he can, as suggested, even make it a setting/switch in EECH.INI.
I would really wellcome being able to select in the seperate pilot/co-pilot AH-64D cockpits AA and/or AG and/or NAV modes !

I think having independant pit configs would be great. I would probably use the pilots pit in FCR mode and configure the CPG pit for TADS before take off.

hey arneh,

i was wondering if you could share the info you have (if possible) about the longbow software.
i have always wondered about that and would like to read through it.

Alittle bump to shake up Arneh!

so no news then on any possible release date...?

No, this project is unfortunately on hold for the moment.

I'm quite busy for the time being, and will be at least for a little longer. Also, after my old PC died a couple of months ago, I've had problems getting the development environment to work on the new one (which is Win 7 64 bit, which may be part of the problem...).

omg i hope this mod comes out soon! =)

Please, what's the Project status?

Still on hold.

This looks like a serious update. I can't beleive how much more realistsic everything looks. Impreesive work Arneh.

If I compiled the source code you've branched, are these changes in it? Wouldn't mind giving it a test - I'm a system tester in my day job.

It's on the apache-real-avionics branch. Though it's branched from 1.12, so it probably won't work in a 1.13 install, since some data files have changed. You would need to make a 1.12 install and use it in that. And of course I've broken a lot of things in the process, so many things don't work anymore, it's very unfinished.

Can I just add to everyone else that this is pretty amazing work and hope it can come together as you (and all of us!) want it to -

Oh well, that's tomorrow written off to reinstall EECH

Great work as always Arneh.......he never fails to amaze!

Quick question Arneh,

In your first posts you provide us with some screens along with the statement that the MFDs will be upgraded as part of the avionics upgrade. However, the dashboard itself in your screens looks far better than the one I currently get to see (All mods 1.13.0). Is that your work too and will that pit be included in the avionics release? Or is that a 3rd party pit already available elsewhere? Or... last option... do I have an older obsolete pit due to a false install or false settings?

It's Aeyes' payware textures: http://cockpits.nl/PRODGAL_AH64D_cockpit_EECH.html

Thank you! I guess it's worth the €11?

That's up to you to decide You can tell from the screenshots how it looks.

It definately looks great! But I take it you won't distribute that pit in your avionics update as it is someone else's property, so we will get up-to-date avionics implemented in the current 3D AH-64D pit, right? Or will you "base" an updated pit on the Aeyes pit to such an extent that you can rightfully brand it as your own production?

Btw, I doubt Aeyes and or cockpits.nl have legal product ownership protection.....

It will work both with and without Aeyes' cockpit textures; they're independent updates.

Amazing stuff!

For a sim so old and it's still being modded today tells of things lacking in the flight sim community (same with Falcon 4). This kind of work makes me wish I knew how to code - I'd love to work on the DC and tidy it up. Arneh and crew this is great work - perhaps you guys should look at making your own apache sim lol.

Seeing what you've done so far, I wonder how much more moddable the game is - will you guys finish off by turning this into a completely different product one day?

Great work and looking forward to the results, though no rush

Hi Jex,

Unfortunately the 3D engine is very old. The devs can do (and did) an amazing job in updating models, avionics, and many other features, but there's only so much they can do graphics-wise. There's no way to put EECH on par with DCS in graphics apart from completely rewriting the game using another 3D engine.

As for tweaking the DC, I briefly dived into it a while ago but sadly I had a spike in work demand so I had to completely drop that. I never changed one single line of code, only looked at it.

Well first of all we're all bound by the Empire source license, so simply reselling this is out of the question, and we can't redistribute the original datafiles (models, textures, etc) so making a true "free" release would be a major undertaking.

Then there's the fact that the code is old and ugly in every aspect. It's plain C with source files that are thousands of lines long. Thanks to it having directX bolted to everything cross platform support is never going to happen (there was an openGL branch but it's dead Jim, AFAIK), upgrades to later versions of DirectX are a big undertaking too.

I'd say what EECH really needs at this point is a rewrite using open standards/APIs and a high-level language (C++ or even Java).

Hi arneh,

I too am interested in this wonderful work, especially as I like Apache the most from the EECH chopper selection.

Any hints to the further progress so far?

Hey, Arneh, what documents are you using to do your upgrade? Most documents on things like the longbow radar are considered classified. Is your update going to be like combat helo or more realistic. thanks.

Whoa, those posts were from long ago, probably going to have to PM the man himself to get anything out of him.

A. This looks gorgeous. Thank goodness we have talents like Arneh working on this game!
B. I'm more interested in realistic performing sensors & weapons (i.e. not perfect ones!!) than I am in realistic MFD's & buttons, but I think I made that clear already. Arneh, maybe you can take those on next...

-Olds

I don't know why they keep this sticky...

I think this project is dead.

Wait... let me check...




Yup.... dead.

... that horse isn't dead! It's just sleeping...
... oh dear, maybe not. Hm, I'll just cut off the head here and ride it around a little

Oh...don't do THAT!

Here...


have a pony...

Sent a pm his way, so will wait for a reply, then will get his e-mail.

Unfortunately, despite all the hard work done by Arneh and the EECH developers community in general, I think there's no reason for existence for EECH anymore since we will have Combat Helo soon. The majority of EECH players only flies in the Apache anyway.

There's no logic in your affirmation JayPee... the new sim (once released) will not kill EECH. Have DCS killed falcon4???

JayPee,

That's a massive assumption you're making there.

I only fly the comanche and have actually based my pit on it. I know that GrizzlyT has also done this.

Many of the guys on here fly the red side aircraft.

Andy

I have yet to see a recent sim as broad, ambitious, and extensible as the likes of Falcon 4 and EECH. Combat Helo may be the exception to the new sim rule, but I'm not holding my breath. New sims have been consistently pretty-to-look-at but weak on replayability. Combat Helo has a very small team and there's only time to do so much...

IMO, PC games that don't find a way to open up to some form of user content will have short lives on your computer.

Time will tell, but I wouldn't bury EECH just yet.

From the beginning I look at Combat Helo,And in my humble opinion if EEch is dead,It also CH dead.
IN MY OPINION full campaign will be released in Ch fastest for the year,but rather, more later.(And frankly we do not have confidence or ever will be released) Sad but true.
If you want to fly for over a year and shoot to several stationary targets - good luck.
yet for a long time will have no EECH competition.
Now we have a true professional and an artist on board-Olds
And for some time we see new Dust and Explosions similar to the Apache Air Assault.

I PM'ed Arneh and the project is shelved. He's doing things other than EECH, and would like to finish the project, but can't. If anyone wants his source code however, he would be happy to give it to anyone who wants to finish what he started.

As I've mentioned I'm too occupied with other things nowadays to work on this project. I hope to someday resurrect it, but it won't be anytime soon.

But if someone else wants to pick up the work, what was done is available in the source code repository for someone with skill and interest to work on. My primary source for the upgrade was a US Army training manual which explained in quite detailed steps how to do various procedure, including things like all the steps for tasks like "Perform Target Acquisition and Designation Sight Sensor Operation", "Perform Fire Control Radar Operations", "Engage Target With Point Target Weapons System" etc. It's a public domain document available at e.g. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/tc-1-251-cover.htm

Arneh,

Sorry to see you leave the fold (even temporarily!).

Please accept a big thank you for all the work you have done (and hopefully will do...) to make EECH what it is today.

All the best,

Andy

+1!

EECH+EEAH was one of the best ways I ever spent 12 bucks. Even though I don't play it now (too much time taken by my PhD, also the reason why my supposed tweaking of the AI never got off the ground), it's definitely the sim I like to play the most. Falcon 4 is second.

I agree with everyone that mentioned that EECH will not die that easily. What keeps me going back to it every now and then is the replayability and the sensation that I'm a small cog in a big war machine -- unlike DCS for example where you are the center of attention and little to no info is carried from one mission to the next.

Falcon 4 has the same type of immersion, but I like helos more than jets.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I'm 99% sure that the guys behind DCS have plans to include a Dynamic Campaign (DC) in it sooner or later. They haven't answered it openly, but if you read between the lines you get the feeling that they do not want to take the risk of making a Dynamic Campaign from the get-go but want to progress to it over the course of a few modules of DCS. But there's no clue on how soon that will be...

Speak for yourself, JayPee.

you just woke up a zombie. now it will walk around and eat my brain

Klatu varata...

Wow should be great to see them one of these days.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/pokski/eech/apache/ap-tads-dtv2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/pokski/eech/apache/ap-tads-dtv.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/pokski/eech/apache/ap-tads-flir.jpg

These are great, will we ever see this in a new update?

We're planning to try and implement some of these in my Blackhawk update. But there's no guarantee, or a release date. It depends on if we can get them to work, now that Arneh isn't available.

anyone working on this project or maybe planning to do it?

looks like no one. okay, I'm taking it.

IT'S ALIVE!!! but not really healthy - some things doesn't work properly or doesn't work at all, crashes quite often. that's my plan:
- make it stable and somehow playable
- start open testing, fix obvious problems
- include it in clickable cockpits project, make important elements clickable, mix mine and Arneh's fuel systems
- continue testing, fix technical problems
- release or continue to add improvements, too far to think about it

stay tuned.

Wow Thealx, i'm glad that someone retook this project, thank you and good luck.

I can't believe it. You are a crack, we have a lot of lucky so you are with us.
Thanks a lot.

no probs) looks like everything works as before. most problem is - Apache's radar targeting very unfinished. I will add some simple scripts like next/prev target to make it usable, after that we will start a testing (better say acquaintance - I suppose most of us doesn't know how this stuff should work).

You have to understand that this project still in development stage and some stuff doesn't work as it should. Examples - standard Air radar on AH64D doesn't work for Realistic avionics (TPM radar mode can be used instead), ground radar has no targets filtering (priority, side etc.). If you not familiar with current EECH version be careful with leaving reports, better check stable version first.

Not just AH64D avionics was changed, but also radar code for all helicopters. It will be good if you will check them as well.

Game has now three levels of avionics detail - Advanced is old Realistic, new Realistic affects only Apache avionics. you can toggle this setting right in the game to see the difference. for Advanced avionics Apache's radar works like before, all functions available. Important: if you played Apache mod with Realistic level, after you launch stable EECH version avionics will reset to Novice, you should change it manually.

New hotkeys:

SHIFT+HOME - TPM radar mode
SHIFT+INSERT - RMAP radar mode
Left mouse button - activate MFD button
Right mouse button - toggle active MFD (move cursor to anothe screen)

recommended EECH.INI settings:

notnl=1
debug_log=1

only max size HUD works properly (you can change it with ALT+F1 keys)

Install on any 1.15.2 version (based on 1.15.2FIX5). Unpack files into cohokum folder. There is no save compatible with 1.15.2 version.

DOWNLOAD EECH Apache avionics v0.1

Downloaded now, thanks Thealx.

Thanks a lot thealx !!

Hi Thealx, tested Yesterday, game crashes when i switch to the ORT, i hope to help much more.

will check it, thanks.

Okay, I'm taking it.I make TEDAC, switches, and a few other things, do not waste your time on it,
Chrismtas coming

deal
don't forget ah64d cockpit model was updated in 1.15.2 - gunner's MFD screens textures was renamed.

Wow great news XIII, i can't wait to see them in game.

I can do each cockpit at the level
KA50, kiowa or cobra, but thealx needs
to interact with buttons,its to hard to me.there no ANY simple tutorial how use scene on eech.ie how edit add switches,how add levers,etc.for programmer is piece of cake,for normal people is #%&*$# hard.

don't think about switches like about.. switches) it's just an objects. you load object into the scene, move and rotate it. try to make it same way as in Kiowa scene - switches has nullobject parent, it will make things much easier. animation is little more complicated but no need to do it at the beginning.

useful tutorials:
http://tune.pk/video/4351847/lightwave-ui-tutorial-layout#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqG75AjYX8

Thank you sometimes just one sentence solve many problems.Everything about texturing I learned from one tutorial on YT. I hope that there will be the same.

Hi, some news about this update?

nope, it's still in the queue. busy with hind right now.

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This mod was included in Cockpits improvement program

Thanks, good luck.