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First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress)

Posted By: arneh

First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 06:44 PM

New 3D cockpits have been a long standing wish for EECH, and soon we will have one! I've been working on a completly new 3D cockpit and tools for making it for the Apache since 1.9 was released, and it's begining to take form now. But bear in mind that it's still not finished. There are still untextured surfaces, more details will be added, and mapi is making new textures which should look much better than the temporary ones used now.

So even if the final will look much better, this is how it looks currently, to give you some idea.


View from pilot's station:




The compass works! Not such a big deal by itself, but it means I'll be able to make all the other analog instruments work as well.






Copilot's office:




I'll post some more pictures as I complete more parts of the cockpit.

Oh, and I'm also working on a new Hind cockpit. Although that is much earlier in production, the Apache cockpit will be first.
Posted By: Martino

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 07:13 PM

Holy S...moke!



one word: GENIUS!

you do it.... really DO IT!
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 07:13 PM

Wow, nice man! Good work.
Posted By: Slippery

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 07:15 PM

Excellant work arneh. I finally was able to get up on your server last nite(router and network nightmares). I crashed after about 15 minutes(d3d input error..first time the game has ever crashed on me). I probably caused it by looking around too much and trying everything. lol.
Thank you for all you've done in resurrecting this game. I played it for a year or so when it came out, but went away til recently. However, I have been following the development teams' work and finally couldn't resist reinstalling. My old Saitek 36 "let out the smoke", so I picked up an X52 pro and pedals. Now, I just need to make a new profile for it and I'll be wearing out your server.
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 08:29 PM

Yepp, that's some really nice work!

BTW the reason I mostly fly the Comanche and not the Apache is the lack of a true 3D cockpit of the latter.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 08:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: Slippery
Excellant work arneh. I finally was able to get up on your server last nite(router and network nightmares).


I don't have a server, so must have been somebody else's.
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 08:42 PM

Whoops! "Sleek unloads in his pants!" \:D

Wow..at last..boy have i been waiting for this..superb job arneh!

Any fps drop when using it at the moment?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 08:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
Any fps drop when using it at the moment?


Yes. Did a quick test right now, when running without cockpit graphics I got 35 FPS, with the Apache cockpit from pilot's station I got 32 FPS. I tried the same with Comanche cockpit where I got 38 FPS and 32 FPS respectively (it was a different location which explains the higher w/o cockpit rate).

Of course the Apache rate might drop a little more when I add more details, and may be a bigger drop for slower PCs, but overall I don't think it's going to be any significant drop, and if you can run the Comanche cockpit then the new Apache's shouldn't be much of a problem.
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 08:55 PM

Great news thanks!

Oh...and if you need a beta tester..pm me lol! \:D
Posted By: Mapi

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 09:37 PM

Yeahhh!!!
Posted By: OneShot

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 10:29 PM

WOW ...
Posted By: Blindeye_03

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/11/07 11:59 PM

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW
Posted By: dfang

Re: First completely new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 01:14 AM

You guys are amazing,,what a great addition for our beloved EECH..
Posted By: Malleus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 01:42 AM

Holy shhhh...! That's awesome.

Will there be 3D pilots (own hand, legs, wso's head, etc.) in it like in the Commanche or it'll be cockpit only?
Posted By: Lemon

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 01:58 AM

Wooohoooooooooooo!
Posted By: sisboomba

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 02:22 AM

Let's enjoy while we can (before someone or some company discovers and decides to throw serious money his way :-) )
Posted By: GrizzlyT

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 03:06 AM

Very.....VERY cool, Arneh!!!
You never cease to amaze.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 03:22 AM

Holy crap.
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 04:49 AM

Just a thought..

But will this be the FIRST Apache 3d cockpit to be released into a Sim?

BTW..will the cockpit work with both the A & D models?
Posted By: BeachAV8R

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 05:57 AM

I love coming to this forum. You guys all do a helluva job... This is fantastic.

BeachAV8R
Posted By: IamFritz

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 06:12 AM

Just when I thought I was going to pack up all my helo sims . . . !
Posted By: Butterfly

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 06:13 AM

WOOOOOOW... This is my wet dream!
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 08:05 AM

SIMPLY GREAT!

Thats what I dreamt for since 1999 \:\)

/thumbsup
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 08:38 AM

 Originally Posted By: Malleus
Will there be 3D pilots (own hand, legs, wso's head, etc.) in it like in the Commanche


Probably not. It's a bit complicated getting all the movement right.

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
BTW..will the cockpit work with both the A & D models?


Not at first, but I hope to modify the cockpit for the A-model later. But Hind has higher priority.

 Quote:
But will this be the FIRST Apache 3d cockpit to be released into a Sim?


No, not at all. Even going as far back as Longbow 2 it had a Longbow 3D cockpit, albeit not a very good one (by todays standard). And then pretty much everyone since has had it, though most of them have been fairly arcade like:
Gunship! (actually not sure if this is true 3D...)


Team Apache


Apache Longbow Assault


Operation Flashpoint


Plus of course the payware Apache addons for MSFS:





Although I have to say that in my (not very objective!) view the EECH Apache looks the best and is the most accurate already, and it will get better \:\)
Posted By: Archer11

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 11:34 AM

If I do not stop drooling immediately, I'll find a quick end from dehydration...
Oh man, marvelous!
Posted By: Malleus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 11:50 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: Malleus
Will there be 3D pilots (own hand, legs, wso's head, etc.) in it like in the Commanche


Probably not. It's a bit complicated getting all the movement right.


I understand. However, I think even a non-moving body (and wso head) would add a lot to the immersion.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 02:28 PM

IN-CRE-DI-BLE Arneh.
LB3 in progress !
Posted By: El Mudjahed

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 02:55 PM

Hind cockpit?! For real? Man i love you!!! finaly a hind Cockpit i have waited soooooooo long for this since "Hind" from DI i'm hopping for a Sim whit a Hind and Cockpit.Can you tell us more details please? Will it be in 2D,3D or both? Again thank you for what you did (1.90) and for you are doing!!!!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 03:04 PM

 Originally Posted By: El Mudjahed
Will it be in 2D,3D or both?


3D only. It will be the same sort of work which has been done to the Apache cockpit, plus I plan to change the exe a little more to better simulate the more unique characteristics of the Hind.
Posted By: goon

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 04:03 PM

I can't think what to write! Those shots from EECH literally made my heart race faster. If you successfully add in a Hind cockpit it will be a dream come true.

Outstanding work, simply breathtaking!
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 05:26 PM

 Originally Posted By: Andreas
BTW the reason I mostly fly the Comanche and not the Apache is the lack of a true 3D cockpit of the latter.

Same here. Of course I prefer the Apache, cause it's actually operating.

Does it support 6 DoF (TrackIR)?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 05:39 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
Does it support 6 DoF (TrackIR)?


The cockpit? Of course it does, the current 2½D cockpit already does. Well, 5 DOF that is, roll isn't modelled, but I think that's the least important dimension.
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 06:11 PM

Posted By: PFF

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 06:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: Avimimus


2x
Posted By: Corsair8X

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/12/07 10:57 PM

I am totally, completely, honestly stunned at how incredible that cockpit looks. Like someone else mentioned, the lack of a really good 3D cockpit keeps me out of the Apache. That will get me in it and make me stay in it. What an incredible piece of work.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 01:19 AM

I agree. I'm using the emagin HMD and I can get roll modeling through trackIR emulation in EECH, but I just leave it off. A 30 degree FOV makes it far too much of a pain having slight roll of your perspective all the time. I can't see any reason why standard TrackIR+monitor users would want roll, since all you have to do is roll your real head.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 01:47 AM

WOW! Arneh... You are amazing. Not only do you have wonderful programming ability but you also can make 3d models! Looking great I can not wait to fly in it \:\) Best 3d apache pit I've seen yet.
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 08:21 AM

I forgot to ask:

Is there an ETA already?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 08:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Not only do you have wonderful programming ability but you also can make 3d models!


Yeah who would have thought! Fact is I've never done anything more than a little experimenting and simple models with 3D previously. This is the first big 3D model I've ever made.

 Quote:
Best 3d apache pit I've seen yet.


That's what I'm hoping it will be, the best Apache pit made for any sim/game yet \:\) Will be hard to match Lock On Black Shark though, those guys have insane 3D skills!

 Originally Posted By: shoogar
Is there an ETA already?


Q4 2007
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 09:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh

That's what I'm hoping it will be, the best Apache pit made for any sim/game yet \:\) Will be hard to match Lock On Black Shark though, those guys have insane 3D skills!


Sure, they do a good job, but don't forget that BS is a brandnew sim and they code it by themselfes as a team ... EECH is seven/eight years old (!) and was originally not coded by you ... so seen in this light you do an excellent job ...

I played nearly all Apache sims and your cockpit IS the best looking I have ever seen - even with not finished textures. I can't wait to use it \:\)
Posted By: ghostrider883

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 09:24 AM

Great work Arneh. Keep it up \:\)
Great to know that you are working on a Hind pit as well
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 09:55 AM

Let us see the Hind. If that gets sorted I'll definately be playing EECH more.
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 03:33 PM

Mmmm... Hind! That sim gets better every day...
Posted By: usa320

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/13/07 09:34 PM

amazing.... simply amazing...
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 01:10 AM

 Originally Posted By: shoogar
 Originally Posted By: arneh

That's what I'm hoping it will be, the best Apache pit made for any sim/game yet \:\) Will be hard to match Lock On Black Shark though, those guys have insane 3D skills!


Sure, they do a good job, but don't forget that BS is a brandnew sim and they code it by themselfes as a team ... EECH is seven/eight years old (!) and was originally not coded by you ... so seen in this light you do an excellent job ...

I played nearly all Apache sims and your cockpit IS the best looking I have ever seen - even with not finished textures. I can't wait to use it \:\)



It definately is the best in any sim so far - you can even see the curvature of the glass plus the MFD's have depth to them. It truely from the screenshots gives you that sought after but hard to reproduce feeling of actually sitting in the aircraft.
Posted By: Corsair8X

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 02:02 AM

I don't recall this being asked, will other instruments be operational, just as the ADI ball, etc? Just curious.
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 04:19 AM

I don't think the AH-64D has that many analog instruments, ADI and compass being two of them.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 07:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: Corsair8X
I don't recall this being asked, will other instruments be operational, just as the ADI ball, etc? Just curious.


That's the plan. Although as Andreas said it doesn't have many analog instruments, just the compass, ADI and a altimer and airspeed gauge. Oh, and something which looks like a thermometer under the pilot's left window, but that will probably not work as I don't think EECH even models temperature.
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:05 AM

Can thermometer be textured differently depending on camo pattern used? \:\) Freezing with winter, mild with green, hot with desert \:D

arneh, do you have good pictures of Hind pit? I've downloaded some photos a while ago, can upload if needed.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:24 AM

 Originally Posted By: Gr.Viper
arneh, do you have good pictures of Hind pit? I've downloaded some photos a while ago, can upload if needed.


Yes, I've got tons of Hind pictures \:\) Even got a couple of books filled with Hind pictures.

Edit: here is one of them:


"Photomanual for modelers". Although I don't think it was 3D modelers they had in mind \:\) But it does have tons of pictures from every angle so should be helpful.
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:49 AM

Cool! Coding tons of analog dials looks like loads of work. Are you going to make that uh.. hover indicator on the left side of the instrument panel?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 09:09 AM

 Originally Posted By: Gr.Viper
Cool! Coding tons of analog dials looks like loads of work. Are you going to make that uh.. hover indicator on the left side of the instrument panel?


You mean for the Hind? Of course I will! \:\)

Actually there is one thing I don't have many good pictures of, and that is the Hind's HUD (when switched on). From what I have it looks to be mostly just a gun/rocket sight, and not any flight symbology. And it's red/orange and not the more regular green colour.
Posted By: amalahama

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 02:22 PM

Wow arneh!That screens are really impressive!!! Do you have some Hind's WIP screen??I would like to keep an eye!

And, in the other hand, Do you have some plans for doing clickable cockpits in the future?

Regards!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 04:45 PM

Today's update - I've made some of the details which used to be just textures into proper 3D objects:


And don't worry, the textures should be a lot less blurry when mapi is done doing his magic.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 04:46 PM

 Originally Posted By: amalahama
Do you have some Hind's WIP screen??I would like to keep an eye!


The Hind is so early in the development that there is not much to see yet. Just the very basic outline of the cockpit, no textures yet. I'll provide screenshots when it's more representative.

 Quote:
And, in the other hand, Do you have some plans for doing clickable cockpits in the future?


No plans for clickable cockpits yet.
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 04:51 PM

What modeling program do you use?
Posted By: Corsair8X

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 06:14 PM

Wow, it's going to look so great in there. The main thing I was looking forward to in EECH2 was updated cockpit graphics. I ended up shying away from it. Now, not only is there going to be some updated cockpits (very realistic looking cockpits), but it's actually going to be of the Apache! That's very exciting. I didn't any problem flying the Comanche after it was canceled, but there is just so much more data and video footage of the Apache that it's maybe easier to feel a part of the aircraft than the Comanche which is still in all regards, much of a mystery. I imagine it's the same with people's desire to fly the Hind. We've all read plenty about it, seen it in action. There's just a real desire to fly something that you've seen in action. For me personally, there's just a stronger connection (not that I'm knocking anyone for flying the Comanche).
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 07:58 PM

Pity, we only have one Hind model. I've read guys flying version with fixed 30mm cannon used to knock down telegraph poles with the gun for a bet.
Posted By: Mapi

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:30 PM

Why the HIND ??? And not the HAVOC ???
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
What modeling program do you use?


Lightwave

 Originally Posted By: Corsair8X
I didn't any problem flying the Comanche after it was canceled, but there is just so much more data and video footage of the Apache that it's maybe easier to feel a part of the aircraft than the Comanche which is still in all regards, much of a mystery. I imagine it's the same with people's desire to fly the Hind. We've all read plenty about it, seen it in action. There's just a real desire to fly something that you've seen in action.


Yeah, it's much the same for me. And there is so much more information available about the Apache or Hind compared to the newer helicopters, and for me it's much more enjoyable to model when I can model it accuratly after the real thing instead of guessing.

And the Hind is just such a legend, used all over the world, and in pretty much every conflict for the last 30 years.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/14/07 08:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mapi
Why the HIND ??? And not the HAVOC ???


See my previous answer, there is a lot of information available about the Hind, while I've hardly seen any cockpit pictures of the Mi-28N (most are of the Mi-28A). If someone can find me good pictures of the Mi-28 cockpit then we'll see.
Plus the Mi-28 already has a cockpit. Of course not nearly as good as the others, but Hind has no cockpit yet.
Posted By: HELLFIRE

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/15/07 05:41 AM

OMG!!!! I go AWOL for a few months and this is what I find when I return? Incredible! Great work, arneh You have made my day!

How about a new 3D exterior model for the Apache to complement your beautiful cockpit? If you ever have thoughts about making one, give me a call: I'll be happy to help you with texturing
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/19/07 07:48 AM

The kevlar armored (co-)pilot's seat:


Since you'll rarely see much of it it's not as high detail as the parts you do see more often.
Posted By: AD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/19/07 12:22 PM

Arneh,

Maybe it's just my monitor, but these pictures seem incredibly dark.
I threw them into photoshop and ramped up the brightness. They suddenly came alive and my jaw hit the floor.

Thanks for this work.

Cheers
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/19/07 12:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: AD
Maybe it's just my monitor, but these pictures seem incredibly dark.

Not here. I can see them well.
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/19/07 02:24 PM

No problems viewing that screenshot here,looking good!
Posted By: blue_plasma

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/19/07 03:27 PM

RRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr mehave mehave mehave! Will it be a christmas present? jabbajabbajabba!!!!!!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/20/07 03:02 PM

A couple of comparison shots from about the same angle. First the real thing (and also notice that it is also a very dark cockpit):

And from the same angle in EECH. I've added quite a bit more details like pipes and wires and such latetly:


The real thing from further back (and with green night lighting):


And again from the same angle in EECH:
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/20/07 04:40 PM

It's just amazing!
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/20/07 04:42 PM

Lovely!
Posted By: gotcha

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/20/07 06:48 PM

bye bye eech2 (evil grin)

ABSOLUTELY GREAT
Posted By: Lemon

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 02:58 AM

Can't wait... \:\)
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 08:59 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Actually there is one thing I don't have many good pictures of, and that is the Hind's HUD (when switched on). From what I have it looks to be mostly just a gun/rocket sight, and not any flight symbology. And it's red/orange and not the more regular green colour.


Will these ones help?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d77_1191214560
Although it shows the Mi-35.
00.47 HUD sight
2.15 MFD

http://crackle.com/c/Wheels_and_Wings/MI_24_and_MI_35_Russian_Helicopters/1911432
00.47 HUD sight

Based on the look of this photo, the gunners sight looks kind of small to fit booth aiming and regular HUD information:
http://www.airliners.net/photos/photos/9/0/7/1179709.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1179709/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photos/photos/1/6/6/1138661.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1138661/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/1/4/1266415.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1266415/L/
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 09:07 AM

Smashing pics! thx for posting ;\)

C'mon arneh! pull your finger out!!
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 09:15 AM

 Originally Posted By: Andreas
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d77_1191214560

MFD on 0:36 too... Looks nice but I wonder if it is easily readable.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 10:20 AM

 Originally Posted By: Andreas
Will these ones help?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d77_1191214560
Although it shows the Mi-35.


Thanks, although it only shows what I'd already seen. But at least it seems to confirm that it only has a sight, no flight information on the HUD.

 Quote:
Based on the look of this photo, the gunners sight looks kind of small to fit booth aiming and regular HUD information


Oh, yes, the gunner almost certainly only has a sight. And that the models with a fixed cannon lacks it seems to confirm it (as then the pilot aims by moving the entire helicopter).
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 06:22 PM

I must be dreaming. Pinch me.
Never ever thought that after so many wonderfull things people here did for EECH-modded anything like this was still waiting to be delivered !
Congrats.
Now it seems EECH2 will have an uphill (getting steeper and steeper) battle for sure.
My copy of EECH2 is collecting dust since day 2.
I guess it'll stay that way for a looong time to come.
Posted By: gotcha

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 06:36 PM

hind cockpit pictures:
http://www.hunavia.hu/TYPE/Mi-24/Mi24PHINDPILOTCOCKPIT/
and more stuff
http://www.hunavia.hu/

enjoy!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 08:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: gotcha


Thanks, that was some really detailed and high-res pictures. Those are going to be useful \:\)
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 08:40 PM

Awesome progress! I love how even the switches are modeled in 3d \:\)


Any chance we might get an upgraded (what looks to be DED - type unit) - where it displays Fuel etc. with multiple pages with keypad input? Kinda like how you enter stuff in to the DED with the Upfront controller in the F-16.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 09:07 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Any chance we might get an upgraded (what looks to be DED - type unit) - where it displays Fuel etc. with multiple pages with keypad input? Kinda like how you enter stuff in to the DED with the Upfront controller in the F-16.


Possibly at some point, but that is not dependent on the new 3D pit. Also I would need to know what information the real thing displays there.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 10:52 PM

Hah, I knew it! Your canopy bars are bigger than the real ones!!! Only by about a half inch or so, but just had to rub it in... Heh heh. (disturbing redneck voice) She's look'n mighty purdy.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/21/07 11:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: Reticuli
Hah, I knew it! Your canopy bars are bigger than the real ones!!!


Which one?
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 12:30 AM

One thing I noticed - what is the white strip above the compass? Is it tape of some sorts? Perhaps an IR sensor?

To me it looks like a coverup of something the Army does not want the public seeing but I could be wrong.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 07:54 AM

 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
To me it looks like a coverup of something the Army does not want the public seeing but I could be wrong.


No, it just looks like a piece of paper. Probably something useful written on it, but I haven't been able to read it. And I have seen a picture without it, and there is nothing exciting behind it \:\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 11:45 AM

Interesting to see ED's early Apache cockpit model. It's of course unfinished (but so is mine). It does obviously use more polygons for many of the small details, so it does look better. But I don't think mine looks too bad in comparison. And of course, they model the A-cockpit, while I make the D-cocpit.

Posted By: Alemart

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 11:53 AM

This is looking really good ^_^, wich cockpits did you currently have in the "pipeline"?.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 11:56 AM

 Originally Posted By: Alemart
wich cockpits did you currently have in the "pipeline"?.


Just Apache and Hind for now. Although it's likely that I will modify the Apache cockpit to make a separate A-model cockpit as well at some point. We'll see what happens after those are done.
Posted By: AlphaOneSix

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 01:41 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
To me it looks like a coverup of something the Army does not want the public seeing but I could be wrong.


No, it just looks like a piece of paper. Probably something useful written on it, but I haven't been able to read it. And I have seen a picture without it, and there is nothing exciting behind it \:\)


It's the magnetic compass deviation card. Every so often, you have to go out and verify that the magnetic compass actually points in the right direction, since metal in the aircraft as well as electromagnetic fields from the equipment can cause it to drift slightly. It's just a table that shows (usually) 8 directions and what the compass would need to show to steer in that direction. For example, if you want a heading of 090 then you need to put the compass on 092, the 090 is printed on the card and the 092 is inked in after a compass swing test.

Sorry to ruin any secret squirrel theories. ;\)

Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/22/07 08:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: AlphaOneSix
It's the magnetic compass deviation card. Every so often, you have to go out and verify that the magnetic compass actually points in the right direction, since metal in the aircraft as well as electromagnetic fields from the equipment can cause it to drift slightly. It's just a table that shows (usually) 8 directions and what the compass would need to show to steer in that direction.


Ah, thanks, that makes sense!

Deviation card in place (admittedly not very readable, but then you don't need to actually use it in EECH):
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/24/07 01:42 PM

just out of curiosity, would it be possible to replace other models, like tanks, planes etc., as well ?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/24/07 01:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: shoogar
just out of curiosity, would it be possible to replace other models, like tanks, planes etc., as well ?


Sure. If you put enough work into it everything is possible ;\)
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/24/07 07:34 PM

Well, ok, wise words

Let me say it in other words: is it possible to replace other models with better ones within acceptable efforts - I mean without to rewrite the hole simulator or nearly the hole ... ?

What are the steps?

1. create the new models in a program like "Lightwave"
2. save them as/convert them to?
3. implement them how?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/24/07 10:08 PM

 Originally Posted By: shoogar
Let me say it in other words: is it possible to replace other models with better ones within acceptable efforts


If you simply want to replace existing models then yes, that's fairly straight forward. Make the model and textures (if you're using new textures, which you probably want to), convert the model and put the converted model and textures in correct directories.

There are some limits to the model though. Some things EECH's 3D engine doesn't support, like bump mapping or reflections. And don't try anything weird like non-planar or concave polygons (it will just look weird, but shouldn't break EECH - I hope \:\) ). And adding new moving parts (like moving wheels, or guns or whatever which the original model doesn't have) is still fairly unknown territory.

And of course adding completly new models as opposed to replacing existing ones has never been tried.
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 06:06 AM

Thank you, arneh!
Sounds like there is still a hughe potential in EECH.
But I realy wonder why not already someone has "pimped" the objects ...

Edit: except you of course ;-)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 08:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: shoogar
Sounds like there is still a hughe potential in EECH.
But I realy wonder why not already someone has "pimped" the objects ...


Maybe because no one has shown it is possible yet, so everyone assumed it wasn't? \:\)
Posted By: GCsDriver

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 08:43 AM

Many people didn`t seem to understand what the 3dExporter-threads were about or seemed to wait for an importer which was already there. Also there are problems with the converter versions. I couldn`t get some edited (original) models converted back with the new lwo2eeo version until I figured out I had to use the older one...

Lovely deviation card btw, simply love Your attention to detail
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:03 AM

 Originally Posted By: GCsDriver
Many people didn`t seem to understand what the 3dExporter-threads were about or seemed to wait for an importer which was already there. Also there are problems with the converter versions.


Well to be fair I had too many problems with the converter when I originally tried it. So I ended up making my own.
Posted By: dfang

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 11:42 AM

Arneh,
Is there any tutorial for 3D object modeling for a beginner in EECH and how to import/export?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 12:05 PM

 Originally Posted By: dfang
Is there any tutorial for 3D object modeling for a beginner in EECH and how to import/export?


No, nothing yet. I'm still not finished with the first one, so I'm still figuring out how to do it all.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 06:25 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Well to be fair I had too many problems with the converter when I originally tried it. So I ended up making my own.


Real programmers do everything from scratch, starting from their own operating system ;\)
When I got complains about problems in convertion I fixed these problems and now it works much better.

It's really a great job you're doing. Maybe it'll be good to merge our tools? Or, if your tools are better, just to give them to public? I don't know if there's any need for me to continue improving my tools, may be the better way is to improve your ones.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 06:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: GCsDriver
Many people didn`t seem to understand...


Some people don't bother to ask how it works and why it does not work in this and that cases. And it helps to improve everything.

And some people just think that it would be great if somebody makes something and hand it on a silver platter to them without doing anything. Nobody is a master-of-all-arts, and people of many talents and different [levels of] skills should cooperate. Everybody learns something from scratch - even if he/she 40 years old. Or even if he/she specialises in completly different region of work/interests.

P.S. Sorry for the tone.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 07:00 PM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_[WINE
] Real programmers do everything from scratch, starting from their own operating system ;\)


I did write my own operating system once :p

But it's not because I have to do everything myself that I wrote my own converter. It was because I just had too many problems when I tried to use it, and without access to the source (I see you've released it now, although I don't know where to find it) I couldn't debug it to figure out if the problem was in the converter, in EECH or in my models. So it was easier to just make my own than all the trial and error I would have to do to figure out where all the problems where otherwise \:\)

 Quote:
When I got complains about problems in convertion I fixed these problems and now it works much better.

It's really a great job you're doing. Maybe it'll be good to merge our tools? Or, if your tools are better, just to give them to public? I don't know if there's any need for me to continue improving my tools, may be the better way is to improve your ones.


Well, if you've improved your converter then I don't know if mine is any better. And mine only does one direction from LWO to EEO, I still used your exporter to get LWO files in the first place.

And I do plan on releasing it, but I'll probably wait until the Apache cockpit is finished so that I know it at least is capable of making a cockpit \:\) It's written in python so the source code will be there for anyone who wants to improve it.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 07:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
I did write my own operating system once :p

;\)

 Originally Posted By: arneh
although I don't know where to find it

Update your EE sources and you'll see new files.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
And mine only does one direction from LWO to EEO

Mine too ;\) Scenes conversion is very different and requires additional converter.
But as you can see there are a lot of "not implemented" in the description to my one. What about yours?

Exporter is a different application which has no common code with the converter. It was the way they were created.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
I don't know if mine is any better

 Originally Posted By: arneh
It's written in python


Some people here prefer 3DS Max to Lightwave.
Is it easy to add 3DS file format support to your converter (I don't think that it's easy for mine)? Or maybe make a plugin for 3DS Max to export? Maybe it's easier to take your program for the base for plugin? I don't know requirements/limitations for plugins yet.
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:06 PM

Yeah, if you share your knowledge, maybe more people can add content to the game! There are still ignorant about most of it.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_[WINE
]Update your EE sources and you'll see new files.


I did try that, but I don't know where the new files are supposed to be found after the update :P

 Quote:
Scenes conversion is very different and requires additional converter.


Yeah, I haven't even tried making scenes yet. It only does the 3D models.

 Quote:
But as you can see there are a lot of "not implemented" in the description to my one. What about yours?


It doesn't do the surface point vectors, so no gauraud shaded surfaces yet, and probably some surfaces properties I haven't figured out what they do yet... But apart from that I think it does most of what EECH's 3D engine supports...

But quite a bit of the effort went into making it more userfriendly. As I remember I was very frustrated when trying yours and it would refuse to convert the model because it wasn't entirely within the limits. This one will warn you about things EECH doesn't support but most of the time it will at least produce something so that you can see what it looks like in EECH and possibly see where the errors are. And one big improvement I find is that it will allow you to use new textures, unknown to the EECH exe. Just have to copy the textures to the correct directory and the model will find them during loading (part of why I had to change the EEO format).

But this is compared to how your converter used to be, you might very well have improved those parts in your as well.

 Quote:
Some people here prefer 3DS Max to Lightwave.
Is it easy to add 3DS file format support to your converter (I don't think that it's easy for mine)? Or maybe make a plugin for 3DS Max to export? Maybe it's easier to take your program for the base for plugin?


I don't know how easy a version which does 3DS format is, as I don't know the format. Don't think it should be too hard. It reads the LWO format, and converts it to an internal format and do some calculations on the data before writing the EEO. If one can make a reader of 3DS which converts to the same internal format then it the calcultations and EEO-writer can be reused. But how hard it is I guess depends on how different 3DS models are from LWO models...
My converter did originally start as a Blender plugin (as you might remember I told you about long ago when I first started experimenting with 3D models), but that was eventually dropped when I finally got Lightwave. But that is part of the reason why it's written in python, as Blender plugins are python programs.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
Yeah, if you share your knowledge, maybe more people can add content to the game!


I certainly plan to share, but I want to complete one model first so that I can share how to do the entire thing. And of course also learn from the experience before trying to teach things which won't work \:\) And also the converter won't work until a new exe is released, but I'm still changing the exe, so whatever someone starts making now won't necessarily work by the time the next exe is released...
But by the time the Apache cockpit is finished I expect to be able to provide some instructions for others to do the same.

So show a little patience while I get some time to pollish the procedure \:\)
Posted By: Blade_RJ

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: AD
Arneh,

Maybe it's just my monitor, but these pictures seem incredibly dark.
I threw them into photoshop and ramped up the brightness. They suddenly came alive and my jaw hit the floor.

Thanks for this work.

Cheers


me too,i calibrate my monitor to get as real to printable colors and stuff generally are very dark when they are.......dark.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 09:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
I did try that, but I don't know where the new files are supposed to be found after the update :P

A new 3dimpexp directory is in the root of the tree. The same place where aphavoc, masterserver, modules, MSVC6, setup and some files are. Do you have a "create new directories" feature turned on in your CVS client?

 Originally Posted By: arneh
the surface point vectors

What is it?

 Originally Posted By: arneh
gauraud shaded surfaces

What the surface structure [bit] field is it in EE?

 Originally Posted By: arneh
some surfaces properties

Yes, some of them are very untrivial.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
And one big improvement I find is that it will allow you to use new textures, unknown to the EECH exe. Just have to copy the textures to the correct directory and the model will find them during loading (part of why I had to change the EEO format).

I thought about adding separate "additonal_textures.txt" file with the list of file names to load. But if there are no problems in creation of empty textures during EEO files load, your way looks much better.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
But this is compared to how your converter used to be, you might very well have improved those parts in your as well.

Then you must share your changes in EE code.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
I don't know how easy a version which does 3DS format is, as I don't know the format. Don't think it should be too hard. It reads the LWO format, and converts it to an internal format and do some calculations on the data before writing the EEO. If one can make a reader of 3DS which converts to the same internal format then it the calcultations and EEO-writer can be reused. But how hard it is I guess depends on how different 3DS models are from LWO models...

I suppose this format describes vertexes and planes too ;\) But I don't know it as well as I didn't know LWO format.

 Originally Posted By: arneh
My converter did originally start as a Blender plugin (as you might remember I told you about long ago when I first started experimenting with 3D models), but that was eventually dropped when I finally got Lightwave. But that is part of the reason why it's written in python, as Blender plugins are python programs.

At that time Blender produced very strange LWO files (I don't know how it's now). But your request put me into refactoring of the converter which made it unworkable for a time ;\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/25/07 10:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_WINE
A new 3dimpexp directory is in the root of the tree.


Ah, there they are \:\)
You certainly have a lot more code than me, but I guess you writing in C++ and me in Python makes some of that difference. Mine is just about 1000 lines, all in one file.

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: arneh
the surface point vectors


What is it?


They're used to create round surfaces. Each point in the polygon get's its own normal which is used to apply a gradual shading which gives it a rounded look. Check Wikipedia's article on Gouraud shading, they explain it much better than me \:\)
At least that's what my reverse engineering showed the surface point vectors being used for, but as I said I haven't implement it yet, so I haven't actually tested my theory \:\)

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: arneh
gauraud shaded surfaces

What the surface structure [bit] field is it in EE?


smoothed in face_surface_description.

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: arneh
And one big improvement I find is that it will allow you to use new textures, unknown to the EECH exe. Just have to copy the textures to the correct directory and the model will find them during loading (part of why I had to change the EEO format).

I thought about adding separate "additonal_textures.txt" file with the list of file names to load. But if there are no problems in creation of empty textures during EEO files load, your way looks much better.


The texture names are included in the EEO file now, and then EECH will load them when loading the other textures later.

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: arneh
But this is compared to how your converter used to be, you might very well have improved those parts in your as well.

Then you must share your changes in EE code.


Yes, I will, I just have to finish changing the code all the time, so that there is some stability for you to work from \:\)
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/26/07 06:14 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Yes, I will, I just have to finish changing the code all the time, so that there is some stability for you to work from \:\)

I need just a part for new EEO versions loading/textures creation. I suppose this part works well now. Some people require this functionality right now for their models test.
If you need more changes in EEO format, you have a version field there ;\)
Posted By: Wags

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/26/07 11:13 PM

Impressive work arneh! It's a good time to be a helo simmer \:\)
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 10:18 AM

Any new pics? Any of the Hind too?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 01:38 PM

I've got the analog gauges working now:


A nice screenshot of current pilot's cockpit:
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 01:46 PM

 Originally Posted By: Wags
Impressive work arneh! It's a good time to be a helo simmer \:\)


\:\) Impressive work you guys are doing as well! \:\)

 Originally Posted By: XabbaRus
Any new pics? Any of the Hind too?


Only worked on the Apache lately, so the Hind is not much to look at yet. I'll try to finish the Apache first.
Posted By: Flyboy

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 02:07 PM

Nice pits! Do they allow for real-time lighting to alter the shade of the surfaces?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 06:19 PM

 Originally Posted By: Flyboy
Nice pits! Do they allow for real-time lighting to alter the shade of the surfaces?


Not at the moment, although I might experience a little with adding it when I get the time.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 07:27 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
I've got the analog gauges working now:

lws files import?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 08:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_[WINE
]
 Originally Posted By: arneh
I've got the analog gauges working now:

lws files import?


No, implemented by changing the exe.
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 10:15 PM

Awesome cockpit!!
This is like a dream come true. By the way, is there a ETA for the cockpit release?
Posted By: GlynD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 10:38 PM

Arneh has said, it will be ready when it is ready chap!

It is awesome isn't it?

Cheer
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/27/07 11:15 PM

It's awesome enough for me to have installed EECH again after several years, as well as be downloading the allmods.exe file now. Great looking cockpit, should go a long way to increase the realism in this sim.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/28/07 08:21 PM

"it will be ready when it is ready chap"
Is it possible I read that line before somewhere ? \:\)
The pits looks simply ... un-be-lie-va-bly awesome.
Pleazzze keep up the good work.
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/28/07 08:54 PM

Looking goo, one of the best Apache pits I have seen. Once the Hind is ready EECH will be back on my hard drive.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/29/07 06:22 PM

From the looks of it the new AH64D pit will drive EECH2 (in fact fying the RAH-66 in general) into oblivion.
I still can't believe how much smoother and better EECH1 v1.90 already flies and yes, looks, compared to EECH2.
EECH2 is a dog @ 1600X1200 on my system, but EECH1 v1.90 with all gfx options on still gets me 50fps in-cockpit.
If the communities' next version with the new pits, in fact the REAL EECH2, delivers what I think it will, all other sims (except for F4AF!) will leave my HDD... the so called 'EECH2' joke first of all.
Thanks.
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 08:31 PM

Any chance of some more cockpit screenshots arneh to keep us at bay! hehe! ;\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 09:03 PM

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
Any chance of some more cockpit screenshots arneh to keep us at bay!


Yeah, here's one:


Happy to help! :P
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 09:29 PM

Is that Gunship 2000? \:\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 09:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: Andreas
Is that Gunship 2000? \:\)


No, it's the original Gunship from 1986 \:\) First helicopter sim I ever played!
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 10:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
Any chance of some more cockpit screenshots arneh to keep us at bay!


Yeah, here's one:


Happy to help! :P


Hmm, ok that is Gunship (the original - I played it for months and months and hours), but what platform?

Definately not 16-color PC platform... Amiga? Atari ST?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 10:46 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Definately not 16-color PC platform... Amiga? Atari ST?


Amiga. That's the one I played in my childhood \:\)
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 11:19 PM

I see a mouse cursor!!!! That's a clickable cockpit!!!
Posted By: amalahama

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/30/07 11:26 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
I see a mouse cursor!!!! That's a clickable cockpit!!!


haha good one!!!

Regards!!
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/31/07 05:04 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Definately not 16-color PC platform... Amiga? Atari ST?


Amiga. That's the one I played in my childhood \:\)



Hahahah I thought so - I was always envious of the Amiga/ST users when I had 16 colors in Gunship around 1986/87 ya'll had I think - by looking at it - 32 colors or maybe even 64 (looks like 32).

The cockpit is slightly different too - but not by much.
Posted By: Bulldog60

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/31/07 12:18 PM

Gunship 2000 was my favorite along with Chuck Yeagers Air Combat " Check Six!" I still have both.
Posted By: Blindeye_03

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 10/31/07 02:27 PM

gunship 2000 was awesome :D. Then they came out with the expansion and oh how I regret never getting it :(.

Gunship 2000 on the playstation was pretty fun too :).
Posted By: [SJ]niall_UK

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/02/07 02:55 PM




Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/02/07 07:45 PM

This pit beats *everything* I have ever seen in a Helo-sim.
From the type of raindrops on the canopy I can tell this is truly EEAH/EECH - otherwise I might not even believe it !
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/03/07 04:07 PM

Uhhhhh.... Oh...........

At this point it looks to good to be true. Phenomenol. I betcha those gauges don't even work. Heck it's probably just a Photoshop prank. Come on Arneh release that bad boy so we can have some FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Heretic

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/03/07 05:17 PM

First challenge: New cockpits.
Second challenge: New models.
Third challenge: Implementing Speedtrees into campaign maps.
Fourth challenge: Altering the campaign engine.

Result: EECH 3. \:D
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/08/07 07:19 AM

Any news? ;\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/10/07 01:51 AM

Been a bit busy lately, but have worked some on the cockpit sides (and still low-res temporary textures):







Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/10/07 04:03 AM

Looking great! I can only dream what it will look like with the high res textures \:\)
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/10/07 09:24 AM

Oh boy, I can't wait ;\)
Posted By: eric37a

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/11/07 03:49 PM

This is ridiculous, there are too many great sims getting too much attention at once My head is going to explode! (In a good way)
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 12:55 AM

Vaporware...
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 03:12 AM

 Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
Vaporware...



I'd hardly call it that considering Arneh has made far and beyond the greatest contributions to EECH in the past year or more.... We're all waiting with tremendous anticipation.
Posted By: Evil Koala

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 04:22 AM

 Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
Vaporware...


Hi there. You must be new here.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 11:25 AM

Out of almost 10 years of EEAH + EECH experience ... this is the last sim I would call anything about it vapourware.
Razorworks have always delivered,and so have all modders/devs after that.
ED's successor products (BS/A10/AH-64A are further from us than the new EECH cockpit ... I would bet with you on that any day).
Arneh and others will blast you out of the sky \:\)
Posted By: gotcha

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 07:19 PM

Arneh, how about making us all beta testers \:D
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 08:22 PM

I second gotchas idea \:D
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 08:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
Vaporware...


Have I ever previewed something which I haven't eventually released?

 Originally Posted By: gotcha
Arneh, how about making us all beta testers \:D


Nah, I don't need testers to tell me what's missing, I know already ;\)
Posted By: GlynD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/12/07 11:29 PM

Most definitely not! Obviously T2 didn't spend any time reading about the monumental changes you have made to this title...

(Or he just forgot to add a smiley - or was talking about another sim?)

Cheers
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/13/07 01:20 AM

I may have forgotten the smiley, but I was actually thinking of this when I was referring to vaporware. I don't ever recall this product being released?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/13/07 09:17 AM

 Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
I may have forgotten the smiley, but I was actually thinking of this when I was referring to vaporware. I don't ever recall this product being released?


Did you ever see me previewing that one?
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/13/07 04:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
I may have forgotten the smiley, but I was actually thinking of this when I was referring to vaporware.

The word vaporware is inappropriate. Arneh is a very reliable guy. He just shows his progression. Which indulges me (and us) most. Why have you bring up that word? I don't appreciate that.

 Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
Vaporware is a software or hardware product which is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge, either with or without a protracted development cycle. The term implies unwarranted optimism, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/13/07 06:21 PM

Oh for crying out loud.. relax Kassie. Using the word "vaporware" for this 3d pit from Arneh was so ludicrous and so much of a joke I'm surprised anyone would even take any offense to it. Get outside a bit. There's more to life than computers. Relax, have a beer.

Posted By: Heretic

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/13/07 06:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Nah, I don't need testers to tell me what's missing, I know already ;\)


Okay, let's put it this way...

Just give us a beta and we won't bug you with reports about bugs and flaws plus we'll stop bugging you about a release date. :;)


How does that sound? \:D
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/14/07 07:00 AM

I second Heretics idea \:D
Posted By: GlynD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/14/07 10:51 AM

You know what Guinness say - "You can't rush genius!" (or something like that) and "Good things come to those who wait".

http://www.guinness.com/gb_en/ads/current/hands/advert/hands.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4sdgvy-pk

It will be ready when it is ready lol...

Posted By: gotcha

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/15/07 05:52 AM

no worries, I'll just play Crysis and GRAW2 in the mean time and drop in from time to time to check the progres ;\)
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/15/07 11:28 AM

LIONPRIDE wrote ... "TIME TO PUT THE FLAMES OUT ....".
Looks like a hot release is coming.
If you have more pics of work-in-progres like the above, please put the thread on fire
I bet this is about the *only* thing beating the new EECH cockpit \:\)
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/15/07 12:26 PM

Yes, make us HOT! \:\)
Posted By: Flyboy

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/27/07 11:50 AM

Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 11/27/07 01:14 PM

Isn't that a screenshot from Combat Helo?
Posted By: pcriddle

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/01/07 01:36 AM

Certainly looks like it to me, what ever happend to it, just seemed to fall of the planet.

Phil
Posted By: Kodiak80

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/04/07 11:47 AM

Arneh -

This new pit looks fantastic! What are you using to model it? I had been interested in learning a little more about this and trying my hand, but not ready to invest in something like 3DSMax. Is MilkShape an option? Do we have the ability to insert new ground models into EECH or clean up some of the existing models?

Thanks
Posted By: Flyboy

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/05/07 02:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: Andreas
Isn't that a screenshot from Combat Helo?


Yessir!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/06/07 01:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kodiak80
What are you using to model it? I had been interested in learning a little more about this and trying my hand, but not ready to invest in something like 3DSMax. Is MilkShape an option?


I'm using Lightwave, and with my converter that is the only thing it currently converts to EECH's object format. But I think Firebird is working on a converter for other 3D formats.

 Quote:
Do we have the ability to insert new ground models into EECH or clean up some of the existing models?


Everything is possible with enough work, we have the source. New models would however be a lot of work. Replacing existing models much less work.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/08/07 06:26 PM

Any pictures on the progress so far? I need something to drool over \:\)
Posted By: pilot111

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/14/07 09:14 AM


If this can help you i post picture from HIND cockpit
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/17/07 10:43 PM

OK the white rectangle for doing soemthing, what is it? I can read kontrolnaya planka which must mean it is used for guidance of some weapon but can't figure out how it works. any info anywhere?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/18/07 12:12 AM

 Originally Posted By: XabbaRus
OK the white rectangle for doing soemthing, what is it? I can read kontrolnaya planka which must mean it is used for guidance of some weapon but can't figure out how it works. any info anywhere?


I don't know. I know they usually have a map there, like this:


But obviously they can put any kind of paper they might need there. Here's a bigger picture of that diagram. Don't know what it says though, as I don't know russian.


And here it is empty. Don't know what it says here either \:\)
Posted By: GrizzlyT

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/18/07 07:03 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
...Don't know what it says though, as I don't know russian....And here it is empty. Don't know what it says here either \:\)

Well, my Russian is really pretty pathetic but I think the white insert might say "Control Rod" in the upper left and something like "Border Cards"(???), along the bottom.

Also, the empty backplate says something along the lines of, "Warning! When removing the block, be sure it's perpendicular to avoid cable damage."

Then again, I could be totally off.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/18/07 04:53 PM

"Attention! When removing the block, place the key perpendicularly to avoid cord damage."

Maybe that's better.

And "Map's border" at the bottom.

Also, not only maps ;\)



And pilot's cockpit for later versions

Mi-24PK



Mi-24PN


Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/20/07 11:25 PM

Cool so how is all this coming along?

anyone got anylinks to good sites for the MiL-24 which might explain in more detail the systesm, even if the site is in Russian as I can read that.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/21/07 05:41 PM

At last I have free time now and it will come along soon.

But I'm afraid that the best Mi-24 document is the "Hind"'s game manual. I've found no significant information about this copter at all. There are a lot of history and stories about this craft but no useful information. I suppose it's better to ask army men about it if you know anyone.
Posted By: pilot111

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/22/07 01:26 PM

Yes my uncle is a pilot of Mi-24 \:\)
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/22/07 02:22 PM

Well, Hind ... nice, yes, but a future project.

What about the Apache cockpit? Any news here?
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/22/07 10:06 PM

 Originally Posted By: pilot111
Yes my uncle is a pilot of Mi-24 \:\)

That's great!

Maybe XabbaRus and others ask their questions (in a different thread) about its systems and (if it is not prohibited by the LAW) your uncle will answer them?

XabbaRus, others, please? Do you have questions? It may help EE to live much more! ;\)
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/23/07 06:03 PM

Early model hinds have very simple cockpits (analogue, simple mechanical sights, no mfd). The last generation of variants (VN, PN, various other upgrades) have fairly modern designs)

Good resources:
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avhind1.html
http://www.zajc.pl/afganistan.html
http://www.airwar.ru/ah.html
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw_c.html
Posted By: pilot111

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/23/07 06:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_[WINE
]
 Originally Posted By: pilot111
Yes my uncle is a pilot of Mi-24 \:\)

That's great!

Maybe XabbaRus and others ask their questions (in a different thread) about its systems and (if it is not prohibited by the LAW) your uncle will answer them?

Yes this is not a problem, if you guys have a questions i can call to my uncle and ask him \:\)
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/23/07 07:19 PM



Hind's crew's guide (russian) http://www.svvaul.ru/modules/Files/Public/Mi-24.rar
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/24/07 12:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: FireBird_[WINE


File doesn't work for me (rar says there is nothing to unpack).
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/24/07 06:55 AM

Works for me. It's a déjà vu file inside the archive.
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/24/07 11:50 AM

Is that grass cutting the Russian way? \:\)
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/24/07 10:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
File doesn't work for me (rar says there is nothing to unpack).

http://rapidshare.com/files/78857800/mi24.djvu.html
Posted By: XabbaRus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/28/07 01:15 PM

Yea but now we have all we need to steal and fly a Hind.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/28/07 05:24 PM

The only thing left is to find one ;\)
Or maybe it's easier to create it by ourselves? ;\)
Posted By: Heretic

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/29/07 01:40 PM

I hear there's still some of the ~330 lost Hinds rusting away in Afghanistan...
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/29/07 10:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: XabbaRus
Is that grass cutting the Russian way? \:\)


I hear one of those things accidentally lifted twice its maximum allowed cargo weight. It was apparently to be a very taxing flight.
Posted By: Kosmo.

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/31/07 02:42 AM

OMG... This alone is reason enough to reinstall EE. Progress? Look pretty much finished to me, even with these textures. Good job!
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/31/07 03:49 PM

Lately I've been working on integrating it into EECH (making sure all the MFDs work; trying to get both front and back seat etc.). This is the most difficult and challenging part (except for the first part of converting and importing the model into EECH in the first beginning), so it does take some time and effort. It also doesn't produce any interesting screenshots to show you. But I think I've solve most of the major challenges now.

Once that is done the model just needs some more work. Some more switches to add, and some external parts of the helicopter which are visible from the cockpit. And probably quite a bit of tuning to make everything look right.

Haven't heard anything from mapi for a long time about how the progress is on textures. But if it turns out that they are a long way off when the rest is finished then I will release it with the temporary textures, and have the new textures released later. It should be better than the current cockpit even with the temporary textures \:\) Though I might have to improve the worst of the textures a little before release... they look so bad they stick out.
Posted By: Kosmo.

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/31/07 04:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
It should be better than the current cockpit even with the temporary textures \:\)


Judging from the screenies it most definately is. Way better. \:\)
Posted By: Ridiculmouse

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 12/31/07 08:40 PM

Mi-8 Cool Rise



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0DaGIzNNNU
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/02/08 10:35 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Lately I've been working on integrating it into EECH (making sure all the MFDs work; trying to get both front and back seat etc.).

--- snipp --- snap ---


Thanks for the update, arneh! \:\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/02/08 11:22 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
making sure all the MFDs work; trying to get both front and back seat etc.).


Well, I've got that part working in the last couple of days \:\) Both cockpits are accessible with the normal switch cockpit key (ESC), and works pretty much like for the Comanche and Hokum. And the co-pilot now has separate MFD displays (i.e. don't have to display the same pages as the pilot's MFDs), and in addition has the ORT display in the centre to show TADS.

But still more work to do.
Posted By: Trident

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/02/08 10:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: XabbaRus
OK the white rectangle for doing soemthing, what is it? I can read kontrolnaya planka which must mean it is used for guidance of some weapon but can't figure out how it works. any info anywhere?


I don't know. I know they usually have a map there, like this:


It's a crude, mechanical rather than electronic, moving map display. Similar units were installed in early model Harrier and Jaguar attack aircraft. It works by scrolling the red/black crosshair across a paper map of the appropriate area which is inserted behind the glass pane prior to the mission. The kontrolnaya planka page looks like a diagram that is used for calibrating the unit, perhaps to allow for different map scales?

EDIT: On second thoughts, I seem to recall that the Jaguar & Harrier systems were a bit more sophisticated in that they projected the correct part of a much larger paper map onto a cockpit display by optical means. This obviously allowed for a much larger area to be covered although the Hind's solution is probably more than adequate for a battlefield support helo with its much shorter radius of action.
Posted By: Gr.Viper

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/03/08 04:17 PM

Description for early Ka-50 scrolling paper map said it marked chopper position with a light behind the paper and that map was scrolling along one axis. You don't go wandering about the area of operations with such device.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/06/08 04:04 PM

Here's a bit of the integration work I'm doing which actually can be seen in a screenshot. I've added some external details viewable from the cockpit, like the avionics pods on the side and the night vision sensor on top of the nose:


When it's off it's in the stowed position, pointing to the left and rear. But here is a little detail I've added which I think is cool, when night vision is enabled the sensor follows the heading you're looking:


(it shows much better when it's moving though, so maybe I'll make a little video clip later).
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/06/08 04:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
When it's off it's in the stowed position, pointing to the left and rear. But here is a little detail I've added which I think is cool, when night vision is enabled the sensor follows the heading you're looking ...

Does the front seater has NV HMS? Because the TADS is always pointing towards his EO camera position. I think it's one (NV) or the other (EO camera) and not both. I assume that the pilot has the superior NV system (i.e. fast tracking, so it can follow it's head). While the gunner has the superior end of the TADS system for zooming and FLIR purposes. Or am I mistaking? It's just a guessing of mine.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/06/08 04:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
Does the front seater has NV HMS?


Only one of the pilots can use the PNVS system at a time. Usually the pilot, so the co-pilot is left without night vision. It is possible to use TADS for night vision, but it's inferior to the PNVS, and that doesn't leave it much ability to detect and track targets (you don't want to use it for night vision at anything but the widest zoom angle). So I think TADS is mostly used as night vision in emergencies if the PNVS fails.

But someone correct me if I'm wrong. AlphaOneSix?

For the game though, since you're just one person, I let the cockpit being occupied use the night vision \:\)
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/06/08 07:25 PM

Nice touch Arneh! I'm excited to see it in action.
Posted By: Wowbagger

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 12:41 PM

Brilliant!

I'm totally jonesin' for this one.
Posted By: ColinC

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 01:45 PM

Spectacular.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 03:12 PM

I CAN'T WAIT NO MORE. Oh agony.
This look the final piece to reafirm EECH as the best helo-sim ever.
LB(2) always had that 3d pit that EECH did not, but now ...
Since ED's DCS series seems to be hardcore *only* (and DCS:Apache not in 2008 for sure anyway) this sim will cater to all other helo entousisast for many years to come.
Thx Arneh (and others involved).
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 06:14 PM

Yea Top Man arneh!

Thanks for the update's.
I myself can't wait for this upgrade!
Posted By: pilot111

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 08:34 PM

Wow better and better, i'm impressed!! Keep the good work arneh
Posted By: Spidey

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 09:56 PM

Hey Arneh
Quick question. While you are looking into the Apache 3D pit, is there a chance of refining / adding to the view zooms for all 3D cockpits.

Right now we have Gotcha's mods which now let us set a new head position and pitch. Is there any chance of going beyond that and making it something we can zoom in and out on the fly ala LOMAC or FSX views.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 10:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: Spidey
Is there any chance of going beyond that and making it something we can zoom in and out on the fly ala LOMAC or FSX views.


It's something I'm considering, but probably not for next release.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/07/08 10:29 PM

Heh, I just tried the old Apache cockpit (have to make sure it still works). I had not seen it for half a year, and had forgotten how primitive it is! How can you guys still fly with that thing? :P
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/08/08 12:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Heh, I just tried the old Apache cockpit (have to make sure it still works). I had not seen it for half a year, and had forgotten how primitive it is! How can you guys still fly with that thing? :P


Arrrrrrrrrgh the waiting :P
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/08/08 06:19 AM

I relay like all the details. the antennas, grips, cables.
And I love to see parts of the exterior. I am sure that will give a new stage of immersion to us.

Good work, arneh!


And YES, I hate to fly with the old Apache pit, although I really prefere this bird.
So, please, please, PLEASE .... give it to us! ;-)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/09/08 12:58 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: Spidey
Is there any chance of going beyond that and making it something we can zoom in and out on the fly ala LOMAC or FSX views.


It's something I'm considering, but probably not for next release.



When I was already in there changing view angles (to get correct aspect ratio for widescreen), it turned out to be fairly easy to add support for changing the view angle smoothly. So now you can use keys or a joystick axis (nice for a slider axis) to smootly change field of view to any angle between 20° and 90° \:\)
Posted By: Spidey

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/09/08 02:26 AM

Sweet dude. Can you give us a preview sshots.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/09/08 10:04 AM

 Originally Posted By: Spidey
Sweet dude. Can you give us a preview sshots.


Screenshot of the Field of View change? It won't look any different than using the 7/8/9 keys to change it. The difference is that it is smoother, and you can change to any intermediate angle, but that doesn't show up in a screenshot, will need a video to show that.
Posted By: pilot111

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/12/08 11:40 PM

Yes we need to see this on video! Can you upload a short video whit your cockpit arneh!? Please ;\) \:\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 12:22 AM

Since the new cockpit has two position, I decided to make the co-pilot's cockpit a little more useful. The co-pilot has an eyepiece on the ORT unit directly in front of him which allows him to get a better view of TADS imagery.

So I decided to implement such a view. This is how the FLIR looks like through the ORT view:


As you can see it looks much like having the FLIR on an MFD, just fullscreen. And it also has an alphanumeric display in red below the imagery. Admittedly the information there isn't terribly useful, but it's there \:\) Most useful is probably that it shows the status for each Hellfire missile.

The DTV again looks much like on an MFD. It is not infrared so targets don't show up as well, but it has higher zoom levels and shows more detail than FLIR:


And finally, the DVO, which is only viewable with the ORT, and can not with MFDs. This one is a bit more different. It's a purely optical device, like a telescope. This means that it shows colours. But it also means that there is no target information displayed on top of the image, and it's not capable of tracking or locking targets. It also doesn't have very high zoom levels. So in general it's more useful for getting a quick overview and for observation, rather than targeting. In fact it was so little used on real Apaches that on the latest models it has been removed. But I think it is cool and at least somewhat useful, so I'm modelling it in my Apache \:\)
Posted By: PFF

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 12:46 AM

Nice pics, arneh!

The second pic is DTV, not DVO, right? Should the image be black-white?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 12:56 AM

 Originally Posted By: PFF
The second pic is DTV, not DVO, right?


Yes, thanks for correcting me. I've changed the text now.

 Quote:
Should the image be black-white?


No.
Posted By: a.forlorn

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 08:38 PM

Great work, arneh! \:D
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 09:08 PM

Take your time arneh. I won't be getting EECH from Ebay until the beginning of next week so you have a bit more time! \:\)
Posted By: Colonel_Kurtz

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 09:32 PM

 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
Take your time arneh. I won't be getting EECH from Ebay until the beginning of next week so you have a bit more time! \:\)


ROFL Mace \:D

Everyones watching this thread waiting for Arneh's baby to deliver. Cigars all round when the big day comes im thinking ;\)
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/14/08 11:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
Take your time arneh. I won't be getting EECH from Ebay until the beginning of next week so you have a bit more time! \:\)


Ah, great, I was a bit worried I would have to release this week! Now I know I can take this week off ;\)
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 02:38 AM

*hands arneh an easy chair and tv remote*











*secretly laughs because the remote has no batteries in it >:)*
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 02:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: PFF
Should the image be black-white?


No.


First of all, your cockpit is looking awesome!! I just can't wait until I have it \:\)

But according to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRya2h7mPp0&feature=related

The DTV should be Black and White (and the FLIR as well).
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 03:05 PM

 Originally Posted By: ricnunes
The DTV should be Black and White (and the FLIR as well).


Sigh. We've been through this several times previously on the forum. I asked a Longbow pilot about this last year. The video records in monochrome (black/white), but it is displayed on a green monochrome CRT in the ORT. So when the co-pilot looks through the ORT it looks green, when playing back the recording on a TV it will be black and white.

I try to simulate what the co-pilot sees when looking though the ORT, not what he shows on the TV back at base after the mission :p
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 03:30 PM

Ah ok.
I haven't read anything that about discussion (even if it was repeated several times), so excuse my ignorance.
Anyway, what you say makes sence and thanks for the reply.
Posted By: Dogwood

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 06:05 PM

Here's a bit of trivia... why are most electronic based sighting devices in green, like NVGs?

I saw this on discovery channel the other day and had no idea this was the reason.
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 08:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dogwood
I saw this on discovery channel the other day and had no idea this was the reason.

What is the reason why it's green?

I know that human eyes can distinguish nuances in the color green best.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/15/08 10:47 PM

Yeah, it's because the human eye can differentiate more shades of green than any other colour, effectively creating a sharper and clearer image.
Posted By: AlphaOneSix

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/16/08 10:05 AM

I was just commenting on this to a coworker the other day, in a conversation about how beautiful Afghanistan is, if only I could see it without NVG's (we only fly at night).
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/16/08 06:20 PM

Must be scary flying over Afghanistan with all that open country and MANPADS everywhere? Although I am basing that comment on the 'Russian days' and lots must have been learnt from their mistakes?
Posted By: tamlin

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/16/08 11:06 PM

It has nothing to do with human perception. It's due to phosphor on the (monochrome) CRT's. It's as simple as that.

If you're old enough, you have experienced it yourself using computers of the time.
Posted By: BeachAV8R

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/20/08 09:26 AM

 Originally Posted By: Colonel_Kurtz
Everyones watching this thread waiting for Arneh's baby to deliver.

Oh..this is much more important than Arneh's first born... \:D ;\)
Posted By: AlphaOneSix

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/20/08 10:32 AM

 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
Must be scary flying over Afghanistan with all that open country and MANPADS everywhere? Although I am basing that comment on the 'Russian days' and lots must have been learnt from their mistakes?


There are very few working MANPADS in the hands of the bad guys here in A-stan (for now, anyway). Our biggest threat is small arms fire, so when possible we just fly a little higher out of their effective range. Also, we only fly at night, which is probably our best defense.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 12:51 AM

And you're not alone in the cockpit anymore:


Though he's only there when you're the pilot. And only a small part of him, since you can't see much of him from the pilot's station... So no arms or legs.

But it's cool seeing his head looking around, and having a peek in the ORT from time to time \:\)
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 01:00 AM

 Originally Posted By: tamlin
It has nothing to do with human perception. It's due to phosphor on the (monochrome) CRT's. It's as simple as that.

If you're old enough, you have experienced it yourself using computers of the time.


I'll argue that, phosphor can be a number of colours and it doesn't have to be green at all - it just so happens that when it is coloured green, the human eye can see a lot more gradients when compared to the others, hence being the most appropriate colour for a good quality image.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 01:10 AM

Nice touch!
Posted By: BeachAV8R

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 05:30 AM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
And you're not alone in the cockpit anymore:

Guess I'll have to keep my singing and swearing to a minimum now... ;\)
Posted By: Colonel_Kurtz

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 08:18 AM

ROFL, this thread is drawing close to 20,000 views. That means that each member of the combat helo community has hit it 1000 times each hehe ;\)
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 08:44 AM

That's great Arneh: the head will make it even more true-to-life.
It's also nice the head does move from time to time.
Posted By: AD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 11:10 AM

It's looking superb and those little details are really going to make this a classic piece of work.

Cheers
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 01:00 PM

Any chance of a quick fraps movie arneh? I know you are busy but would be nice to see it moving as it looks so good!
Posted By: AD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 01:13 PM

Seconded! The lack of a short (long if you want!) video is practically cruelty to animals! :P
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 01:29 PM

I will make a video, but I want to fix a few more things first, so that I won't have to make a new video again once those are fixed.
Posted By: goon

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 02:49 PM

Oh that looks superb. Can't wait for this....
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 05:03 PM

Great news arneh!
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 07:36 PM

Arneh, do you know anything about a new estimated release date? Previously you said Q4 (2007). Or are you pissed off of this question?
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 08:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kassie
Arneh, do you know anything about a new estimated release date?


I don't really know. It will be released when it's ready \:\)
That said, I am in the final stages now (I hope!), so shouldn't be too much longer. And I don't expect any major obstacles in the remaining work, so hopefully it should proceed smoothly.

But if you're asking for actual dates, then I just don't know. I'll take my time and release it when it's done \:\)
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/21/08 10:12 PM

Iv'e recently downloaded the updated Saitek SST software and drivers so i've lost all use of my old profiles..so im waiting for the new release just to reprogram my HOTAS ;\)
Posted By: Torquatus

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/22/08 05:42 AM

Now what did Shingi in Patlabor say about software upgrades, ukSleek ;\)

Thanks for all the hard work, Arneh!
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/22/08 10:39 AM

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
Iv'e recently downloaded the updated Saitek SST software and drivers so i've lost all use of my old profiles..so im waiting for the new release just to reprogram my HOTAS ;\)

Yeah, me too. But why can't Saitek make there profiles backwards compatible? Even if there's a slight change in their driver/software, the profiles are no longer compatible. Very, very annoying. Have you downloaded the beta, or has it been released in the meantime?
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/22/08 03:08 PM

These are the one's i downloaded Kassie (SD6 drivers & Software XP 32bit) ..SD6 version..not sure if there beta?

BTW hopefully the new EECH version will come with an updated keycard if it's required..could anyone confirm this plz?
Posted By: Kassie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/22/08 03:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
... not sure if there beta?

I think not. Here's the link to the beta installation files.

http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=11552

Does the interface look new to you (overhaul)?
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/22/08 07:15 PM

Hey, hey, hey! Take your none Apache cockpit talk elsewhere gentleman. \:\)
Posted By: shoogar

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/23/08 05:14 PM

Hey Lionpride \:\)

Can you post a link to sv-mapper, please?
I only find russian speaking sites ...
Posted By: Heretic

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/23/08 05:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: LIONPRIDE
To keep this thread on topic ... HOW ABOUT A HIND PIT?


AFAIK, it's in the pipe right after the Apache cockpit.


Take your time, Arneh. \:\)
Posted By: ukSleek

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/23/08 08:32 PM

arneh...

I don't know if you have seen this short video displaying various cockpit instruments in the AH-64D..might be of some help to ya?

AH-64D Cockpit Instruments short video
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/23/08 08:45 PM

What sim is that cockpit from? It's rubbish, nowhere near as good as arneh's \:\)
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/24/08 01:07 AM

Check out this gunnery footage and some of the MFD's in action from the gunner's position.

I especially like how it shows some of the mfd's in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-elXtHkyXs&feature=related


Also - look how he presses the MFD buttons to pull up different pages!

Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/24/08 12:21 PM

That's cool! They have the stores pages overlaid on the (what looks like) a FLIR image as well. I thought they were being shot at when the rockets launched.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/24/08 08:44 PM

 Originally Posted By: ukSleek
I don't know if you have seen this short video displaying various cockpit instruments in the AH-64D..might be of some help to ya?


Thanks. It does have some better pictures of some parts of the cockpit than what I have. Not that I put much effort into textures, since mine are just temporary anyway. But I can at least make them somewhat better.

 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
What sim is that cockpit from? It's rubbish, nowhere near as good as arneh's \:\)


Looks like it's pictures from the real cockpit. If mine looks better than the real thing then something's wrong :P

 Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Check out this gunnery footage and some of the MFD's in action from the gunner's position.


Thanks, hadn't seen that one before!

 Quote:
Also - look how he presses the MFD buttons to pull up different pages!


Yes, that's how it's done on real MFDs.

 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
That's cool! They have the stores pages overlaid on the (what looks like) a FLIR image as well.


Yes, I believe every page can have TADS or PNVS image as background.
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/24/08 09:10 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
 Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
What sim is that cockpit from? It's rubbish, nowhere near as good as arneh's \:\)


Looks like it's pictures from the real cockpit. If mine looks better than the real thing then something's wrong :P


Lol, I did know it was the real thing...... twas my attempt at humour sir and thou hast madeth me looketh like a fooleth!

I don't know why I have gone all old English either.... \:\)
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/24/08 09:38 PM

If Arneh's pics posted here are really going to show that way in-game it might as well be real ... it looks that good to me.
Who is going to improve these still ? Is that going to be in yet another EECH version or will Arneh wait for these ?
The movies pointed at by Blastman are ... a blast. Truly amazing footage.
I never saw actual/true AH64D MFD usage before either. Thx.
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/27/08 04:44 PM

Whoa! This was almost half way down the first page! Dragged it back up though.... phew!

Any news Mr arneh? \:\)
Posted By: S Dirickson

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/28/08 03:28 PM

Arneh, that cockpit looks fantastic. Can't wait to try it out myself. If I may ask a question; were the bugs ever worked out on the 3D movement of the pit relative to pilot G'forces, and is it possible to add the vibration and shaking that normally occur in a helicopter? You can see it in the Apache video posted above. I've been up in SH-60's a number of times, and even though your own vision and points of reference stay steady, it definitely feels like the cockpit is vibrating around you. That was one of the most immersive effects in LB2, as well. I never used the 2D pit unless I absolutely had to.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 01/28/08 03:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: S Dirickson
Arneh, that cockpit looks fantastic. Can't wait to try it out myself. If I may ask a question; were the bugs ever worked out on the 3D movement of the pit relative to pilot G'forces


No, haven't looked at it all.
Posted By: Crunchie

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/01/08 12:17 PM

Excellent work! Must be nearly finished now eh?? Oh well... Can't wait to see and use the finished product.

Crunchie
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/01/08 12:26 PM

Yes, the 3D model is just about finished (at least what will be version 1.0). But there is some work remaining on the new exe which is needed for the 3D model. But shouldn't be very long now.

Still haven't gotten any new textures, so that will have to come later, after release.
Posted By: Mace71

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/01/08 12:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Yes, the 3D model is just about finished (at least what will be version 1.0). But there is some work remaining on the new exe which is needed for the 3D model. But shouldn't be very long now.

Still haven't gotten any new textures, so that will have to come later, after release.


That's excellent news! I am sure we all would be just as happy to have normal textures just to have a good apache cockpit!
Posted By: Ridiculmouse

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/02/08 12:41 AM

I found some high-res Mi-24 cockpit photos that might be useful.

http://www.harcihelikopter.fw.hu/images/...reszletfoto.htm
Posted By: Andreas

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/02/08 06:50 AM

If I remember correctly, I think he needs photos of the HUD/gunners sight.

BTW the Hinds cockpit must be one of the most uncomfortable one in the worlds to work in, judging from those photos.
Everything is placed in there like "Hey guys, we forgot to add a ventilation thing in here."
"No problem dude, we just put this huge fan in there somewere. Don't bother that it obscures the pilots/gunners view."
Same goes for the sight that is placed to the right of the gunner...

Maybe interesting so someone. In the Cheyenne, the gunner rotated to be facing the same way as the turret.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/03/08 05:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: arneh
Yes, the 3D model is just about finished (at least what will be version 1.0). But there is some work remaining on the new exe which is needed for the 3D model.


Another update. I've been able to fix a lot in the exe this weekend, so only a few relatively easy issues remain. Then I'll have to test it some. But unless testing uncovers any serious bugs expect it (and the cockpit of course) to be released soon.

Just to let you know, the new exe will be incompatible with previous save games. So if you have any campaigns you want to finish you should do it now before the new exe is released.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/03/08 07:54 PM

No showstoppers ... that's great !
I hope SIMHQ staff will do another article-update on EECH development one's your pit is released.
Will it have texturing (or is it just yet better textures that you will do in a future release ) ?
I have seldom looked out for any other sim release as I have for this ! Thx.
Posted By: arneh

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/03/08 09:00 PM

 Originally Posted By: SimFan
I hope SIMHQ staff will do another article-update on EECH development one's your pit is released.


Or even before! ;\)

 Quote:
Will it have texturing (or is it just yet better textures that you will do in a future release ) ?


It will have the textures you've seen in all the screenshots. I had hoped some better textures would be available, but unfortunatly that looks unlikely to happen before release.
Posted By: SimFan

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/03/08 09:52 PM

Thx Arneh.
I am sure once the new pit becomes available it will attract yet new people to this sim.
People will get even more interested and motivated to even further develop or mod it.
EEAH/EECH is amazing. Each time I thought it was slowly dying incredible things happened.
I've been (on and off) playing this sim for 10 years and somehow it is still top of my list.
F4:AF may be more true-to-life (I love it as well), but EECH sure is more fun at it.
Posted By: AD

Re: First completly new 3D cockpit! (work in progress) - 02/03/08 11:22 PM

Thanks for the progress report Arneh. I think if any textures need some work there will be someone to jump right on top of them.

By the way did you get a chance to look at these bugs:

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2282286#Post2282286

Also I have this same issue with the periscope (hit page down and it just takes you to the CP/G seat but does not let you look through the periscope):

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2257403#Post2257403

These bugs combined really impact the Hokum badly as you are forced to use the radar only.

Cheers

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