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Albatros D.III of Werner Voss

Posted By: Graf

Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 03:12 AM

Decided to post this here for anyone that didn't see it over at the RoF forum.

Albatros D.III of Werner Voss, Jasta 5, June 1917



Download Skin here.

smile
Posted By: Gunloon

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 06:27 AM

Gorgeous, I'll be looking for the skin poll. Thank you!

=MFC=Gunloon
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 07:31 AM

Great skin!
Posted By: Graf

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 10:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Gunloon
Gorgeous, I'll be looking for the skin poll. Thank you!

=MFC=Gunloon


Just look for it in the next update. wink
Posted By: Copterdrvr

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 11:38 AM

The artistic and technical talent that's exhibited on this site constantly amazes me!

I built a model of the Voss Alb. when I was a kid-which was a looooooooooooooooooong time ago! biggrin

thumbsup


copter
Posted By: Cold_Flying

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 11:39 AM

Very, very nice!
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 08:23 PM

Hi Graf it's me your Nemesis! yep darkcloud
You have restricted my comments at the official RoF site Forum, but I've found you here as well! WinkNGrin
Is there a slight outline on that swastika and possibly on the wreath leaves, or my eyes are fooling me and is just a contrast effect between lighter and darker neighbouring colors?

Posted By: Graf

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 08:43 PM

Will you go away! haha

I saw this as well but the photo I had wasn't as clear as this one. Well..guess I'll go back and makes some changes. wink

Thanks bud. biggrin
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 09:03 PM

Always trying to help, you know that!
I have another little observation to make...
The wheel cover seems to be of different shade from that of the red heart...
This shade difference may well be just dust?
I remembered having in my references a profile by JFM that suggests this combination:



I hope Jim will see it and make a comment on this matter as well...

PS: you have changed the three color sequence on the top wing from the previous version, shifting the reddish brown to the side.
Is there a particular reason for that change?
Posted By: Barkhorn1x

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 09:10 PM

Damn - with all of these great minds aboard - Graf's Voss and Jasta 11 skins will end up being the most accurate in sim history.

Salute!
Posted By: Freycinet

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/20/11 09:40 PM

Yeah, this is just insane. WTG guys!
Posted By: Graf

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: elephant_
Always trying to help, you know that!
I have another little observation to make...
The wheel cover seems to be of different shade from that of the red heart...
This shade difference may well be just dust?
I remembered having in my references a profile by JFM that suggests this combination:



I hope Jim will see it and make a comment on this matter as well...

PS: you have changed the three color sequence on the top wing from the previous version, shifting the reddish brown to the side.
Is there a particular reason for that change?


I cannot remember why I changed the sequence but I do know I wouldn't have without just reason. wink

I'll look into the wheel covers and spinner colors. I've seen this profile as well and initially had it in these colors.



Anyone able to tell me what other significant change I've made to this plane to make it resemble a Johannisthal D.III? wink
Posted By: Scoobe

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 12:38 AM

Great Job!

Rob
Posted By: Graf

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 12:48 AM

Per DSA:

The Albatrios Werke painted all the Alb.D.III machines from serial number D.1910 through D.2309/17 in a three color camouflage of pale green, dark green and venetian red(rust brown) on the upper surfaces. The fuselage and vertical fins were shellacked and varnished resulting in a straw yellow color. The cowlings and struts were light grey tinged green. The under sides of the wings, tailplane and wheel covers were [painted light sky blue. Ltn. Voss's Alb.D.III was an early machine with the central radiator and half round foot step, which places his machine between D.1910/17 and D2036/17. On Voss's machine the spinner and wheel covers were painted black. The upper wing, left to right( from the cockpit) was venetian, dark green and pale green with white stripes on the upper surface of the wing, one rib bay inboard from the aileron on both sides of the wing were white stripes. The lower wing upper surface was painted, left panel, dark green, venetian red, pale green. right panel, inboard dark green, pale green. the entire empennage was white with a narrow black band around the fuselage, just forward of the white empennage.


smile
Posted By: Pooch

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 01:04 AM

I'd leave it alone, because you did a terrific job, but the more I look at the photo, the more I think that the outline we are seeing on the fuselage swastika, wasn't really there on the original airplane.
If you really look closely, parts of the of the swastika don't have it. Also, look at the bottom of the black cross. Appears to have a line there, too. But we know that can't be right.
Look at the right side of the heart. Appears to be a line there, too.
My guess is that this may have been retouching done to bring the markings out. Notice how you loose sight of the top part of the cross, in the sun? Maybe the photographer, or whoever developed the film, felt that you couldn't see some of the markings well enough, and so he outlined them. Just guessing, though.
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 01:09 AM

You have changed the footstep, but beware, not all the Johannisthal machines have rounded footstep, the square one was used as well.
You should double check your reference pics before making the change, especially on the particular plane.
I guess the rounded one was used earlier? to be sure you have to compare batch numbers...
I haven't checked any reference, (too late night at the moment),
but I have handy those pics I posted on the official Forum about the weights tables, showing square footsteps:





More tommorow, time to bed now...
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 01:20 AM

BTW, I've got BLOWHARD's RGB values from the Targetware template, for the 3 tone upper camo...

Light Green = 116/123/102
Dark Green = 86/89/58
Brown = 126/91/84

You can put them to the test...

Yet another Johanninsthal one, (D.2140/16), with square footstep.



Posted By: Graf

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 06:39 AM

DSA states Voss' D.III had the early Johannisthal footstep and the colors below. wink

Posted By: LukeFF

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Graf
Anyone able to tell me what other significant change I've made to this plane to make it resemble a Johannisthal D.III? wink


You changed the shape of the rudder?
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 08:16 AM

Looks Gorgeous! thumbsup

I was trying to find out about the footstep but didn't find anything definitive...
The pic that was the most probable candidate in giving some definite proof is obscured!
I think I see a rectangular shape forming up, in the obscured area, but my eyes really hurt!



I found this one too:



It is utterly confusing about the spinner and the wheel covers coloring...
They well could be painted red or black...? (Jasta 2 had black spinners).
The inner struts and landing gear also looks darker than the V struts.
I haven't seen anywhere though that darkened section on the port V strut you're depicting!
There is not there in any of the pics.

For last I saved a great coloring job I found showing Voss Family meeting MvR!
Again no dark section on the V strut is shown.





The controversy of what color is what and I see something that you are missing, interpreting the lighting and contrast on an old b/w photo will never end...
So make your own decisions and present your own version!

cheers
Posted By: JFM

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 09:00 PM

Hey, guys,

Okay, first, beauty skin! Above all else, let me state that up front. cheers

Now, for the minutia. Voss’s DIII is an interesting one. Either 1) he had two similarly painted machines or 2) he had the same machine but with a replaced upper wing.

There are many photos of Voss’s plane taken during his leaves in April and June 1917. Also, shots from when he first painted the heart and swastika on his plane in what must have been late March or early April, just prior to his PLM leave that month, because photos from that leave show his plane so painted. At that time there was no heart on the turtledeck and no white stripes on the upperwing, and without question , when the machine was first painted it had both a central radiator and a rounded footstep.



Voss painting the heart. The heart "points" to the footstep, which is unmistakeably rounded. Look above and note the radiator is centrally located.



Another shot of the central radiator. The machine is pristine and appears brand new.



Here's a shot taken during the same series as the first two, showing the finished product. The swastika is outlined in black. Look very closely at the wreath...the leaves have scalloped edges!

Now, here's a view of the starboard side in April. Again, swastika outline and scalloped leaves are evident:




Now, the photos from June show the white stripes and turtledeck heart had been added to the plane. However, a close look reveals that the plane now has an offset radiator!





Next to the right ear of the guy at far left, you can see one of the cowl vents that is associated with the 700-series DIIIs (although I just realized that recently I saw a shot of another production batch with similar vents so now I have to crawl through the archives and refind it lest I go mad). Is it another plane painted identically or were the upper wings replaced? This plane features extra vents around the nose cowl which were a hallmark of the 700-series D.IIIs, and several other planes in Jasta Boelcke were 700-series and photos show many planes featured these vents. So, if a 700-series then Voss’s plane would have a square footstep—yet in every shot a friend or family member is standing in the way! Can never see the footstep. Furthermore, most of the photos in April show the starboard side while the photos in June show the port side, so comparison is mostly impossible! However, there are a couple pictures that show the same sides but the wreath appears identical on each machine—either it’s the same machine or they used a template do it. There is one spot where I see a slight variation but with the resolution photos I have I’m not prepared to make an in-stone determination; I want to be right about it first.

Now, the 700-series vents. I looked at the April photos because if the vents were missing then this would be a clue that it was different than the June machine, unless they recowled the airplane. Yet, in the April shots I can see these vents. The 700-series production batch was ordered March 1917 and Dan-San estimated a two-month delay between order and arrival, which would bring us to May with the arrival of the 700s. Yet Dan-San’s estimate—albeit well learned—was just that; did this machine arrive earlier than that? If a 700-series it should have the offset radiator, like Voss’s plane, too. But perhaps some first production batches had vents? However, I’ve not seen any in the manner that I’ve seen with the 700-series. If a 700-series in April, why have the central radiator and rounded footstep? If earlier than a 700-series, why the 700-series vents in April? Perhaps there was some crossover features between the batches? The biggest thing is we have a central radiator when the heart was first applied but on leave in April the radiator is now offset. New plane or new wings? It’s maddening…

I’m still looking for an absolute smoking gun to make a definite determination one way or the other. I will say the markings on the two different versions of the machine look so close as to be identical, even down to the slightly misshapen heart on the starboard side. In the shot of the machine just after its first painting it appears there is a 700-series vent visible but the resolution is just not nth degree enough for me to declare it so. In the April leave shots there is no question the vents are present, but the radiator is offset. Again, back to the beginning: either two different machines or a replaced wing and radiator.
Posted By: JFM

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 09:09 PM

Forgot to add this shot of the machine believed to have been taken during Voss's April leave. Note the offset radiator:



Center section of the upper wings appears to be pale green but it is difficult to discern absolutely at that angle.
Posted By: elephant

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/21/11 11:21 PM

A real headache indeed... sicko
It's really difficult, for us amateurs, to work from so low resolution pictures...
I was hurting my eyes to make out the shape of the footstep on that picture I posted earlier...
I thought I was seeing something square forming up...
And when I saw your own picture I realized that the squared thing I thought I was seeing forming,
was in reality the reflection of the can of paint, Voss is holding...Ha-ha!!! duh
So informative report Jim, with so great pictures and still the quest seems endless!
Posted By: Pooch

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 06/22/11 12:29 AM

Great research! Really outstanding job. The photos are amazing , especially the colored one. I stand corrected on the outlined swastika. It certainly was.
Posted By: Maico

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 08/07/15 05:01 AM

This is great stuff. I am giving the D III a lot of love atm.
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 08/07/15 03:04 PM

Bloody hell, this post is from 2011!... resurrection action! smile
Posted By: Maico

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 08/08/15 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By: elephant
Looks Gorgeous! thumbsup

I was trying to find out about the footstep but didn't find anything definitive...
The pic that was the most probable candidate in giving some definite proof is obscured!
I think I see a rectangular shape forming up, in the obscured area, but my eyes really hurt!



I found this one too:



It is utterly confusing about the spinner and the wheel covers coloring...
They well could be painted red or black...? (Jasta 2 had black spinners).
The inner struts and landing gear also looks darker than the V struts.
I haven't seen anywhere though that darkened section on the port V strut you're depicting!
There is not there in any of the pics.

For last I saved a great coloring job I found showing Voss Family meeting MvR!
Again no dark section on the V strut is shown.





The controversy of what color is what and I see something that you are missing, interpreting the lighting and contrast on an old b/w photo will never end...
So make your own decisions and present your own version!

cheers


Unidentified Group:
Before Rock Stars these guys already had groupies. This obvious group of lovely girls would be the "Vossies" LoL.
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 08/08/15 10:04 AM

Male groupies would be "Vossies"... females would be ''Vossettes'' smile
Posted By: Maico

Re: Albatros D.III of Werner Voss - 08/10/15 06:31 AM

band LOL
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