FPS killers

With all the FPS/graphics settings testing due to the degradation of FPS since the last patch, this is what I found out:

If you hit the map key while in the mission, it degrades your FPS by about 25%. Got 50 FPS? Hit M and now you have 38 FPS. Turn map off, and you still have 38 FPS. I get these FPS back if I restart a mission, some only with a reboot...wierd. Pehaps a memory leak?

Using the simplified gages gives you a hit of about 5 FPS if you have it on. You'll regain those 5 FPS if you turn them off.

On the Neoqb forums, EcoDragon found another killer:
Toggle the icons (labels) off and:
BAM! There's a 20% difference with and w/o toggles!
I'll have 60 without, and with them I have 48.
...it gets worse:
looking up at the sky to see an enemy: 98 fps
with labels on looking up at the sky to see an enemy: 48 fps
almost 50% loss of FPS!

EcoDragon said the devs know about this one.
Dunno if they know about the map FPS destroyer.

It's good to gather the data, so we can get closer to the solution.

I'm finding that on my rig, enabling force feedback is a frame destroyer. Without it, I'm getting silky smooth performance.

Well some how i almost like it that way .. fly with no icon and .. problem fixed

:(((
I don't have TrackIR, so I need the icons/arrows. I know that WW1 pilots didn't have icons, but they neither had to turn their heads with their left hand too. :)))))

The map FPS hit is different on my system: I tested it, and I regain those 25% when I turn off the map. I have a quite low-end system.

I'm taking the bus to Funky Town ! You guys can work this out by the time I'm back. Have lotsa fun.

rgr - we have problems with icons hit performance, right now we are working to solve this problem and i hope its gonna be fixed in next week (not this one) update or smh close to it.

PS: and map isnt the issue - map have icons on map too try to use it w.o icons - and it will be ok too.

Good news, thank you!

Great news Viks. Is there any news on a fix for the extremely jerky FPS when Force Feredback is anbled when used with a TrakIR device?

If i use my MS FFB2 and TiR, game is smoot but when i turn my head with TiR, TiR lags badly.

Kankkis

Same issue for me too. Lucky I've still got my old non ffb stick.

Thats really good to know about the Icons and map causing problems with fps.
I only satarted to use Icons after 1.004 and once the hotfix was released I noticed a huge loss of framerate. It's been really bugging me.

I'll do some more testing without Icons being selected and see what happens.

As about "use force feedback" checkbox - we just cant find where and how it can cause such issue, cause ive tested it an half day today (TiR5 + MSFFB2) and with/or without this checkbox - no difference in FPS... ?

Good data. Also nice to get a confirm that the icon issue is being addressed.

Please keep up the communication with us.

Oddly (I sure can't explain it), my FPS rate is 4 or 5 points higher with Force Feedback engaged. FPS drops when I de-select FF.

The biggest variable I've found is the zoom view.

The wider the angle, the lower the FPS. The tighter the zoom, the higher the FPS.

The difference can be as much as 20 points flying over the same terrain.

Makes sense. In the wide angle there is much more the computer has to render.

HT

My system.

Intel QX9650 at 3.8Ghz
ATI 4870 1GB
8GB DDR2 1066 RAM
CreativeLabs X-Fi Titanium with latest drivers.
Gigabit X48 Chipset
Windows 7 Beta (also tried on Windows XP 64 on the same PC).
TrakIR 4.1 Build 37 used with TrakIR 4 with vector expansion.

As has been mentioned by others on this forum and on the Rise of Flight forum when TrakIR is enabled with FFB enabled there is massive lag/jerkiness of movement with the TrakIR. The only way we can fly with TrakIR is to disable the FFB.

LOL, please don't say "we" because I don't have that problem.

I fly with both FF and TIR enabled all the time (except when I just tested it for the above post) with no drop in performance. In fact, I got better FPS with FF enabled than when I shut it off.

My machine is somewhat more modest than yours (same video card tho) so my settings are down pretty low (still looks great!). Maybe you've got your settings cranked too high and are expecting more than your machine can deliver?

Everything is a tradeoff.



HT

I said we because there is more than one person affected. It is therefore grammatically correct to use the plural "we". I wouldn't have posted this as a problem if I thought I was the only one affected. I have read many posts on this and other forums where others are suffering this problem. I even went to the bother of installing a fresh Windows XP 64 with all the latest drivers to be sure.

Please understand that just because you don't have the problem does not mean it doesn't exist. I have also tried every single setting set to low and the problem still exists, so it isn't me pushing too hard. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Maybe it's problem with vista and MSFFB2, i have read that also others have been FPS drop with TrackIr and MSFFB2.

I mean there is no FPS drop in the game with FF on but TiR lags badly, if i'll fly straight and looking forward, no problems with FF on, but when i turn my head TiR lags badly, little stutterin all the time. When i uncheck FF checkbox my TiR is smoot again.

Ati 4870x2 2048mb with vista Catalyst 9.7
Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz oc to -> 3.675 GHz
Noctua NH-U12P SE prosessor cooler
GA-EX58-EXTREME LGA1366, X58, DDR3, CrossFireX, Hybrid Silent-Pipe 2
X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional
6GB 1333MHz DDR 3
1000Gb Sata
700W ATX 2.2 Power
Vista Home Premium 64bit with SP2

EDIT : I have TrackIr 4 with 5beta software.

Kankkis

2005AD,

Are both your TiR and Stick plugged into the back of your PC?

I suspect one or maybe both are in an unpowered hub. Where HT's prolly' are powered.

Swap 'em around if it's convenient for ya', see if that does anything.

Just tested, i have two joysticks MSFFB2 and Logitech Force 3D.

Conlusions, with FF on and MSFFB2 my TiR lags badly, FF on and Force 3D, smooth as silk.

So the problems is MSFFB2.

But i hate Force 3D because there is so little movement rate, so i stick MSFF2 and TiR without FF.

Kankkis

Windows 7 - 64 bit too?

I have my TrakIR through a hub but even putting it directly into the PC I still get the stutters when using TrakIR with FFB enabled. I also tried removing 4GB of my RAM and removing my X-Fi soundcard, neither helped. I notice that Kankkis and I a have 64bit OS with MSFFB2, I wonder if this might be the problem. The fact that Kankkis tried with another type of FFB stick would certainly point to the MSFFB2 as the culprit.

Some good results coming out of this I think, at least we are seeing some common denominators. It would be helpful for others with FFB sticks to let us know how they are getting on.

Yes, 64bit.

can you try it on any 32 bit?
maybe we have preblems in 64 bit versions?

I have dual boot system, XP Pro 32bit and Windows 7 64bit

both have exactly the same track ir stuttering with ffb on with my sidewinder2, so it seems to be a incompatability with the sw2 ffb!!

Also tried v4 and v5 track ir drivers on both os's

Wait - stuttering or ingame FPS drop?
Cause it can be the same FPS but only Track ir stutters when moving it around?

Sorry the track ir is stuttering when moving around, this is resolved when i disable ffb in the game setttings.

FPS are rock solid around 60+ when track ir is stuttering, the game itself runs smooth as silk..

I can confirm it is NOT an FPS issues as I previously thought. My FPS is staying constant, it is purely a stutter/lag when using the TrakIR with FFB enabled.

Note: Pan mode using the keyboard works without stuttering at all times.

Note: With FFB disabled and TrakIR on there is no stuttering.

Note: With FFB enabled and TrakIR enabled there is stuttering when using TrakIR to move your POV.

I have a dual boot of Win XP Pro (32) and Win 7 (64) and in testing I found that while RoF ran nearly as well in Win 7 as in XP, TrackIR panning was very choppy *only* when running Win 7 (64). The fps will drop only 1-2 frames, it's not about fps, the stutter makes the sim look like the fps are low, even though they are not. Pausing the TrackIR makes the sim smooth despite the fact that TrackIR is still running.

I'm using TrackIR 3Pro + Vector with the TrackIR4 software, but I do not have any FFB hardware.

I have not tested the latest versions of RoF in Win 7, but will do that as soon as I can to see if the ForceFeedback checkbox makes a difference for me. In my XP install I have no obvious problems from enabling the ForceFeedback checkbox.

I use a logitech strike force 3d with trackir 4 with no issues. But then again, I just built myself pretty much the ultimate system for ROF

core i7 at 3.8 ghz
gtx 285
1600 mhz 6 gig ram
intel x25 34 nm SSD <----AWESOME game load times
X-fi gamer
Vista 64

I'm guessing those old old old MS FF joystick drivers aren't optimized for today's OS'es and games...

That is an excellent system BuddyWoof, I am sure RoF flies great with it, enjoy

The information we have so far seems to point to the possibility that 64Bit OS with MSFFB2 could be the root cause. Your experience helps to confirm this problem, thanks for the input.

Every other game with FFB effects runs great without FPS hit with my MSFFB2. I have previously tried other FFB sticks and none of them come close the quality and feel of the MSFFB2. It is for this very reason that I paid £50 for a spare one that is just sitting in my cupboard as a backup just in case!

Ive just tested it (put AC on 8km alt and lowered all game settings to lowest and ffb on/off) - and looks like we have a problem.
Its almost inviible but when moving head with high amplitude - it feels reaally stuttery.
We gotta check what we can do here.

Thats not right as i have dual boot xp 32 bit and win 7 64 bit and the stuttering is exactly the same on both os's

I have an MS FF2 stick and with XP and FF on, no issues with TrackIR 5 and the beta software.

I did find though, that the shimmering issue almost goes away with older drivers.
I went all the way back to 181.22 and the shimmering is almost gone with same settings I had with the 190s.
Also, I changed the target exe to rof.exe in nvidia cp and made a new shortcut for it on the desktop, as opposed to the old shortcut and the rof_updater.exe.

almost no shimmering...gonna start updating the drivers to newer versions for better fps, and will jsut stay away from the 190s as something is broken in them.

anyone recommend drivers with no shimmering?

Nice VikS,

That was nice to hear you seen it, i hope that is fixable.

Kankkis

that stuttering is not really bad, it's annoying, have you tried without FF, i mean it's the same without FF, i you haven't tested without, test it it's maybe better.

Kankkis

Although i dont have Trackir i thought i would post my observations on this subject.

I am running FFB2 stick with my x52 and works fine, but i have tested with ffb on and off and it seems to me that when using the mouse pinky on the throttle to look around i get noticeable stuttering with it on, but when using the hat it is still nice and smooth.

Ooops, sorry Grale, I stupidly read your post incorrectly. I stand corrected.

I didn't mean to pull you up on that mate, i was at work and typing fast before the boss came in

Sorry if i came across a bit blunt there..

I am running Vista 32 bit HP with SP1. I have an i7 EE975 and 6 GB of RAM. My video card is a Radeon 4870 X2. I get very good frame rates at all times. However, if I activate FFB with my SWFFB2 the TrackIR 5 becomes very choppy even though my FPS stay well above 50. When I turn off FFB my TrackIR is perfect. Sorry, I posted this note separately before I came across this excellent string. I hope the developers have read it as well. I really hope they fix this, because I absolutely love the sickening feeling when the stick goes limp during a stall!