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#878347 - 01/20/06 01:38 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Magnum Offline
Lifer
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Lifer

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Naples, Florida
Oh now you did it JM...(lol, jk)

Calling SWAT4's AI brain dead? have you played SWAT4?

IMO SWAT4 has the best, most realistic friendly and enemy AI in a modern game... and SWAT4's AI programming is far superior then anything in this console convert they call "the PC version of Lockdown."

Everything but the pretty pictures is wrong with this demo...

While the only complaint I have about SWAT4 is the ridiculous use of force policies.

(and FYI in the SWAT4 add-on, the enemy AI is being bumped up, so now if you don't cuff or control a subject they will get up and run, or grab a gun a shoot you.)

NOTE: now I said SWAT4's AI is the best I've seen in a computer game, it still ain't perfect, and AI is still stupid in general... thats why I prefer them just to be badguys and play co-op only now. (or lone wolf.)

ALL MY OPINION ONLY

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#878348 - 01/20/06 06:20 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Jeevz Offline
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I think Republic Commando's Team AI is better than SWAT4's.

Lockdown reminds me very much of SWAT4 but instead of yelling at people you shoot them. It doesn't feel like a Rainbow game but it's not a run and gun shooter either. I'll probably pick it up when it hits the bargain bin.


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#878349 - 01/20/06 08:32 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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I compare AI not just absolutely, but based on how they perform within the game. For instance, in S4 I've had multiple instances of failing a mission directly because of the actions of the friendly AI--killing a hostage/civilian, walking blindly into a crossfire and being cut down, etc. Many other games I've failed to notice the friendly AI because they've neither blown nor won the missions for me, but mostly hover at the edges and contribute little.

As for the enemy AI, again I've noticed no difference between how they behave in S4 and Lockdown. I have no illusions that they're not AI in a computer game, as opposed to the enemies in some others games like FEAR or Far Cry where I've seen human-like behavior.

So for people who sit here and tell me there's worlds of difference between SWAT 4 and Lockdown, I say I don't see a large gap, only a small one. The "feel" of the game is definitely different and inferior to RvS or SWAT 4, which have similar feels, but if you go bullet point by bullet point I just don't see this canyon that some people are claiming exists.
Like I said, B-/C+ compared to A-/B+. Of course, some people may describe a low B/high C as "crap" compared to low A/high B, but I don't see some massive dividing line at some point that once crossed turns "good" to "crap."

Like when someone says "President so-and-so was the worst ever" or "was the best ever", I don't see it. They're all far more alike than different.

Perhaps I'm too much of a "shades of gray" person compared to the typical "black and white" opinions I'm seeing here?


The Jedi Master


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#878350 - 01/21/06 07:20 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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KingKat2 Offline
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usa
The problem is that is IS a port from the PS2 code. It has the same limitations that the console has. ONE character to play, one small squad, no pre-planning and just 4 total team size. (Co-Op is just 4)

This has been the evolutiuon since it was presented to the XBox several years ago. (found a "review" of RS6 on XBox, 2003, and it read like he was reviewing the Lockdown game!)
The REAL trouble is that GRAW also has these same limitations. Even if a separate DEV team is working on it. (GRIN not RSE, or UBI)
It has become an FPS, a "fast-paced-shooter". Nothing tactical about it. I tried some on-line Co-Op and it was a little better. Great graphics and weapons images, but throwing a grenade following a "glo-ringed-path"?.....weird.

Makes me wish "they" had just taken the old Rogue Spear, and a few missions, and upgraded it to the newer engine, graphics and weapons.
I fear we will never see the RS6 series (for the PC) as we knew it.
You know, I am not really angry with UBI. They need to make games to appeal to as many gamers as they can. I am just disappointed. That's all. Real disappointed.

#878351 - 01/21/06 07:31 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 249th_Jeevz:
I think Republic Commando's Team AI is better than SWAT4's.

Lockdown reminds me very much of SWAT4 but instead of yelling at people you shoot them. It doesn't feel like a Rainbow game but it's not a run and gun shooter either. I'll probably pick it up when it hits the bargain bin.
You hit the nail on the head! IT'S THE FEEL, PEOPLE!!! R6:LETdown doesn't FEEL like it's from the same series. Delete the name Ding Chavez and the title and no one who has played this series since the very first release would recognize this crap as part of the great series. It's like BF42/Vietnam with better graphics. Hold on. Yes, it's BF2 without the vehicles! BF2 is a million miles from the FEEL of a R6 tactical shooter.

My main complaint is the FEEL. The atmosphere. It's all wrong. Your squad mates have tiny, pea-sized heads even with helmets on. Character animations are cartoon-like. MOvement is all wrong. It's not even as "realistic" as BF2 which is arcade compared to the Clancy series of tactical shooters.

AND WHERE IN HELL IS BILL BROWN'S MUSIC? The martial-type music from the series is classic! These dweebs substituted some teen rock crap for Bill Brown's rousing patriotic martial music? Who are they trying to appeal to, six year olds?

I guess the bottom line is they don't care about us old farts. They're going after the "youth" market, changing everything to suit the run and gun tastes of the toddler set. They've decided the loyal hard core no longer exist. Now that we're over 30, they just want us to go away. They dont' care what we like.


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#878352 - 01/21/06 09:15 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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KingKat2 Offline
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usa
I agree with all that has been posted.
Perhaps a company like Shockwave COULD get the RS6 game codes, (or whatever it is) and RE-DO the original game for an upgraded PC like it should be done! They made a great BoBII .

Or just an add-on like they do so well.

Yea, us "older" players, ( over 50 !!!), just don't count too much I guess.

#878353 - 01/22/06 10:24 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Viper307 Offline
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Its funny knowones even mentioned the worst part of lockdown.Whats up with the stupid zoning??I would have gotten the game if they would have done away with the zoning.Thing is im not sure a modder could fix that.Also putting 15 enemies is in a small area and if im not mistaken they were respawning to.The game isnt even a good straight FPS let alone tactical shooter.The AI are retarded i had one in the middle of loading his weapon about 10 ft from me he just kept walking into me.Also whats up with the health bar and being able to get shot 10 times without dieing??Totally lame and i for one hate UBI now because they promised that the PC version would be alot different then the console version.They said it would not be linear on the pc version well they lied not to mention a bunch of other things they promised and didnt deliver.

#878354 - 01/22/06 04:56 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 177
KSB Offline
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Colorado
Quote:
Originally posted by Plainsman:
Your squad mates have tiny, pea-sized heads even with helmets on.
All the better for their pea-sized brains. A perfect fit come to think of it. They're only function is to stand far away from Ding and drawn enemy fire while you snipe the crap out of the enemy. Which is pretty easy as recoil isn't modeled. Full auto .308 has all the recoil of an Airsoft rifle.

We also didn't get the full console treatment. The PS2 and Xbox version has the "Sniper" levels were you blast wave after respawning wave of enemies as Weber, the German sniper.

Oh, and anyone notice that your default pistol has unlimited ammo no matter the skill setting?


You got a lot of nerve insulting The hatta with yo crazy ass cracker comments and yo funky ass witch eye liner that done look like someone threw a sharpie at your eyeballs!" - The Hatta
#878355 - 01/23/06 08:43 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
Joined: Dec 1999
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Orangutan Offline
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Helsinki, Finland
Smart AI or dumb AI. Does it really matter when they've decided to go down the linear and scripted route? R6 indeed. :rolleyes:

#878356 - 01/23/06 09:21 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Spadeace Offline
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Lockdown demo is like playing Ghost Recon. The only problem I see in the demo is the canned AI movements every time you replay the game I miss the random emeny placements. The auto reload needs an off switch in the options menu. I like the iron sight view. The thing that is funny to me is that most play online against others so why do you care about gameplay when your opponents will be human. Now you get better graphics.

#878357 - 01/24/06 08:48 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Orangutan Offline
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Helsinki, Finland
While most may or may not play online, I happen to care about offline gameplay. And this one is definitely not like playing GR. This one is a rails shooter, where you advance along a pre-determined path and encounter scripted events. True, the graphics are better and the iron sight view is nice. But then again, Republic Commando has those too. At least that one is Star Wars.

#878358 - 01/28/06 02:50 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orangutan:
While most may or may not play online, I happen to care about offline gameplay. And this one is definitely not like playing GR. This one is a rails shooter, where you advance along a pre-determined path and encounter scripted events. True, the graphics are better and the iron sight view is nice. But then again, Republic Commando has those too. At least that one is Star Wars.
This will come as a shock to some, but most PC gamers are OFFline gamers. I play GR both online and offline. About 60% offline, 40% online. Lockdown demo is NOTHING like GR offline. Not even in the same league. Lockdown is for people aged 14 and under.


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#878359 - 02/03/06 08:31 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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FokkerDVIII Offline
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The only thing I can say positive about this demo was they did improve shooting.At least you dont have to have the game set to autoaim.In the old Rainbow games it was nearly impossible to line up a target before being killed without autoaim on.the AI lined you up and waxed you fast.I Like the addition of gunsights on the RMB as well.Other than that this demo blows and if its whats coming in the finished game they have totally screwed the Rainbow Six tradition.

I also thought it odd that after reloading the weapon a fresh mag wasnt inserted,the rounds were just taken from whats listed.Thats totally unrealistic and different from the older games.Also didnt see a planning phase and what happened to selecting your team and the lead operator your playing before the mission?!!!!

I agree about offline to.For all the years I have gamed I play offline the most.JUst about every online game is runined with cheats and hacks and the pathetic teenagers who use them.


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#878360 - 02/03/06 09:52 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
Joined: Jul 2004
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Bars Offline
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Today i fly a La-5F!
Quote:
Originally posted by akwar:
In the old Rainbow games it was nearly impossible to line up a target before being killed without autoaim on.
Not true, ive never used autoaim in any of the RS games, or GR.


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#878361 - 02/03/06 03:53 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Operator Offline
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Operator  Offline
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Quote:
In the old Rainbow games it was nearly impossible to line up a target before being killed without autoaim on.
That's due to player skill, not an inherent problem in the game. On the default ELITE setting for RS, however your statement probably holds true.

#878362 - 02/04/06 06:24 AM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
Joined: Dec 2004
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FokkerDVIII Offline
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FokkerDVIII  Offline
Member

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Quote:
Originally posted by Operator:
Quote:
In the old Rainbow games it was nearly impossible to line up a target before being killed without autoaim on.
That's due to player skill, not an inherent problem in the game. On the default ELITE setting for RS, however your statement probably holds true.
Yep was on elite,

As far as player skill Id say false.Lot harder to line up a mouse then the real thing.And on elite the AI was deadly accurate once you stepped from cover and were sighted.


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#878363 - 02/06/06 10:57 PM Re: Lockdown is GARBAGE!!!!  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spadeace:
Lockdown demo is like playing Ghost Recon. The only problem I see in the demo is the canned AI movements every time you replay the game I miss the random emeny placements. The auto reload needs an off switch in the options menu. I like the iron sight view. The thing that is funny to me is that most play online against others so why do you care about gameplay when your opponents will be human. Now you get better graphics.
Don't blaspheme, please! This garbage is nothing like the great Ghost Recon! I'm talking PC version of course.


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