Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#738645 - 03/10/01 08:17 AM I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Silverswift Offline
Member
Silverswift  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Milwaukee WI
I have a P3 1000 w/512RAM, and a GeForce Ultra 64. I loved Empire, and their razor egded stand on the ultimate in simulation, always respected ALL of their sims since 1996 (starting w/GS's Hornet & Flying Corps), but I have to stand to protest; this BoB is all wrong, and all bad! I'll start by saying all is not lost, a big patch will make this sim king, but as it stands now, it's not even worthy of it's own topic. Seriously, how many people got this sim to install correctly from the CD the first time? How many crashes are acceptable in when you try to exit the game? I mean, it's ridicolous. "Paint Ball" extreme, made for about $15,000 had less CTDs. And all the while, CFS2 (BTW, I'm definately not a cheerleadr for MS) gets average and below average reviews. Well, it never crashed on me once, and I don't think anyone can say that graphically, or physics-wise for that matter, it's inferior to BoB. But, everyone hates it! Why, just because MS made it! This BoB really needs to be addressed. I bought it from the UK when it first came out, and have'nt heard a peep about a patch. BoB SUCKS! (right now at least).


Quad 9650 *
2 WD 160GB SATA, Raid 0 *
Two GTX 295, in quad *
*all water cooled by Koolance
8GB Corsair DDR3 @1600mhz
ASUS Striker 790i NSE
28" HannsG LCD
Audigy X Fi Fatal1ty Edition
1000kw Enermax PSU
Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#738646 - 03/10/01 01:33 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 850
Borton Offline
Member
Borton  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 850
Wiltshire, England
Sorry, I can't agree with you!
I've never really had any problem with it, apart from the fact that I'm just not good enough.
Mind you, I am fortunate to have a spare PC which I can devote entirely to combat sims. I did have trouble when I upgraded it because I had omitted to update all the various drivers and DirectX. Try doing this and things may improve.
By the way, if you have a screensaver running, turn the bally thing off! Same applies to a virus checker.

------------------
Wizard prang!
Biggles


Biggles

#738647 - 03/10/01 02:06 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 267
Katabatic Mike Offline
Member
Katabatic Mike  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 267
Rose Hill, Iowa, USA
I haven't had any problems with the program either, Silverswift. I haven't seen any CTDs and the installation was fine. There haven't been many other complaints regarding mission exit crashes so I wonder if it is something within your system? Try Borton's suggestions and make sure everything is up to date. I will say that once BoB is installed it will take a while to get it optimized to run, there are a LOT of tweaking possibilities in the game's configuration.

I think people were disappointed in MS's CFS2 for a variety of reasons. The game had poor AI ( which it's predecessor also suffered ), the gun damage to objects within the game are overblown....i.e.- you can sink a large ship with a short burst of MG fire, the mission structure is strange and the way some missions complete their objectives were highly unrealistic, and so on. I'm not going to list all my grips with the game, but it had many issues that were lessened it's gameplay value.

I'm not even touching a comparison to "Paint Ball"......if CTDs are your primary problem it isn't within the game. Many players are running it just fine.

------------------
Katabatic Mike


Katabatic Mike
#738648 - 03/10/01 02:44 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,341
maususer Offline
Member
maususer  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,341
Detroit
I too had no problems with BoB install or CTD's (athlon 1gig, 320 RAM, V5). I initially got the cd rom error after mission completion, but that was fixed quickly by setting desktop to 1024x768. The stutter had me upset, but after turning off FSAA and running in 1024x864 w/32 bit it runs fine now.

I own alot of sims and enjoy each of them for different reasons. I fly CFS2 for eyecandy and Pacific planes, carrier ops, etc., but it's campaign is lacking for me, and I feel that it's too easy to shoot down enemys (even with realistic flight and ace AI). In fact, after 7 missions of CFS2, I have 20 aircombat kills. I guess I'd be the top ace in the Pacific, while my wingmen struggle to get 1 kill. I'm not bashing CFS2, it has it's pros and cons, just as BoB or any other sim for that matter. BoB is also not the valhalla of flight sims, but I think Rowan focused alot on the campaign and perhaps not enough attention to some other issues. In order to get 200+ aircraft dogfights, they probably had to sacrifice some graphics. I'd hate to see my fps in CFS2 with that many planes in the air. People have different tastes, so some people just prefer CFS2 over BoB and vice versa. We are all waiting for that elusive valhalla flight sim, which will runs on all machines, no bugs or CTD's, dynamic campaign, great graphics, great damage model, great AI, great physics model, customizable with a wealth of tweakable settings, etc. It's a tall order for any software company.

#738649 - 03/10/01 04:59 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 735
DanW Offline
Member
DanW  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 735
Austin, TX
I just picked up this game and it's awesome..

Sure, the GFX sux and the frame rate is kinda choppy, but it's very immersive to fly.

Only complaint I had is my game didn't come with a keyboard commands card..but it's going back to EB till I get one that has the card

It locked up on me once..but no crashes to desktop.


Hook'em Horns
#738650 - 03/10/01 05:09 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Silverswift Offline
Member
Silverswift  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Milwaukee WI
You guys sure are nice around here! I did try it on my friends system for a bit, and it apparently had the same trouble I am having. BTW, I have a Kenwood True X 72 speed CD. Sometimes, however, I do think that thing spins way too fast for it's own good. But, before I got the Ultra, I was getting the ALT-X CTD one in maybe five times. With the Ultra (also went from 256RAM to 512RAM), it crashes every single time, whether it's in the campaign engine, or single missions. So, while I have'nt quite giving up on BoB, it definatley is a sore spot. I would have actually returned it and spent the $15 S&H to send BoB back to Britain (the last flight sim I returned was "Joint Strike Fighter"), if it had not been for the previous good reputation Empire has had with me, along with speedy & efficent patches. But this, if I brought it locally, I would have definately returned it. And that's very unusual for me.


Quad 9650 *
2 WD 160GB SATA, Raid 0 *
Two GTX 295, in quad *
*all water cooled by Koolance
8GB Corsair DDR3 @1600mhz
ASUS Striker 790i NSE
28" HannsG LCD
Audigy X Fi Fatal1ty Edition
1000kw Enermax PSU
Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
#738651 - 03/10/01 05:13 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582
Jensen Offline
Neilist
Jensen  Offline
Neilist
Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582
Give,Denmark
Silverswift, a few weeks ago I posted almost identically, lather removed it, out of
pure embarrassment. I agree compared to CFS2 BoB needs a lot of tweaking, I had a few CTD´s that can ruin the joy of playing this sim.
This is one huge mother of a sim, therefore it has its share of bugs some worse than others. Don´t give up on it, I´m sure most of it will be fixed. Hang on, this just might be the best sim I ever tried (tried most of them). The level of details are just astonishing.


------------------
Jensen.
"Stop that polish chit-chat, and steer 2-3-0!"


Jensen aka EAF331_Jens
"Stop that polish chatter, and steer 2-3-0!"

#738652 - 03/10/01 05:14 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582
Jensen Offline
Neilist
Jensen  Offline
Neilist
Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582
Give,Denmark
Silverswift, a few weeks ago I posted almost identically, later removed it, out of
pure embarrassment. I agree compared to CFS2 BoB needs a lot of tweaking, I had a few CTD´s that can ruin the joy of playing this sim.
This is one huge mother of a sim, therefore it has its share of bugs some worse than others. Don´t give up on it, I´m sure most of it will be fixed. Hang on, this just might be the best sim I ever tried (tried most of them). The level of details are just astonishing.


------------------
Jensen.
"Stop that polish chit-chat, and steer 2-3-0!"


Jensen aka EAF331_Jens
"Stop that polish chatter, and steer 2-3-0!"

#738653 - 03/10/01 06:42 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I think that CFS2 would´ve needed a bit of tweaking too. Of course BoB is not perfect. It has been rushed out too early, its framerates are too slow for what the game offers in the way of graphics (wouldn´t have happened with T&L support maybe) and the controls are not configured perfectly either (not to mention that the program doesn´t allow you to remap the keys). But in the respect of flight modelling (IMO), AI (including wingman behaviour), mission and campaign design it literally blasts CFS2 out of the sky. At the first glance it is an ugly duckling, but a swan at the second (or third at least).

#738654 - 03/10/01 07:01 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,031
Bader Offline
Veteran
Bader  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,031
Bletchingley, Surrey, UK
I may appear on some posts to be a Rowan plant, but I guess I love this game because I really wanted it to work.

OK, it didnt CTD or stutter for me, but finding CTFJ3, remapping my joystick keys (can be done on MSFFPro at least) and upgrading graphics cards could be thought of as pretty significant mods.

This game is so deep and challenging that I have forgiven the rough edges. Just watch the film BoB and then see which sim comes closest to the overall FEEL of July-September 1940...(not just the action sequences, but the effects of desperate struggle (RAF) /overwhelming self-confidence(Luftwaffe))

Silverswift, if you really are interested in getting this running, then there are a lot of friendly people on this forum who can offer help.


"Ah yes, Michael (Parkinson)," Bader replied, "But these Fockers were Messerschmitts..."

BDG BoB Developers Group: Eleven! years of passion for historical recreation of the Battle of Britain.
#738655 - 03/10/01 08:01 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Tailspin Offline
Member
Tailspin  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Metropolis,Ill USA
Silverswift...You are correct in your evaluation in many ways. Actually BoB the Sim doesn't really suck. It is by no means the masterpiece many suggest it is either. Beyond the software problems there are some issues with the basic flight model,the "heart" of any prop sim,and several gameplay bugs(NOT a big issue as bugs aren't uncommon in flightsims). Now...BoB the software has PROBLEMS. I wont go into them here as if you "shop around" on this forum you will find them all in detail. It all boils down,I think,to how much effort one is willing to spend "tweaking" to get BoB to run. I am a "middle of the roader" when it comes to this. I certainly don't fault anyone who believes a product should at least install and run as it is supposed to out of the box. After all we gave up the DOS-days long ago!
Now for CFS 2. All I can say is what many say about BoB...If you gave up on CFS 2 early on,then you have really missed out on a great sim also. It does what it "does" better and with fewer problems than BoB accomplishes "doing what its supposed to do".



------------------
Joke 'em if they can't take a ....


Joke em if they can't take a....
#738656 - 03/10/01 08:28 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Cas141 Offline
Senior Member
Cas141  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Northern hemisphere
Silverswift.
If you are stuck with this sim and can't take it back then all you can hope for is a patch that will address these issues of CTD and stutter. Same as you can also hope for a jackpot win on the national lottery, judging
by a recent reply from "Rowan " when I asked about a patch.
If you can take it back, then I advise you may want to and await IL-2 which will, IMHO, obliterate this sim in every dept, except of course, if you want Spits , Hurris etc.
What Rowan don't seem to realise ( or care about?) is that a lot of people with high end systems, as yours (and mine ) is, are not committing themselves to BOB till the patch is out addressing the many problems shown on this forum. And if it isn't out before the time Il-2 Sturmovik is, then it will be too late.
IMHO, this BOB will go down in sim history as the one with most potential missed for want of some decent back up by the manufacturer/publisher

------------------
Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#738657 - 03/10/01 10:01 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
vonManstein Offline
Junior Member
vonManstein  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
Portugal
Notepad never crashes, exits correctly, runs well on the most minimum of specs, so it must rock eh?

Well, gameplay is very important, not just stability.

Although BoB has been rock solid for me.

Oops, forgot the obligitory

[This message has been edited by vonManstein (edited March 10, 2001).]

#738658 - 03/11/01 12:56 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Bader:

Silverswift, if you really are interested in getting this running, then there are a lot of friendly people on this forum who can offer help.


*I'm* really interested in getting it to run, so let me ask again:

Is there any way of getting this sim to run without ridiculous stuttering on a

Duron 650
192Mb RAM
GeForce 2 GTS 32Mb

???

Short of buying $600 worth of new hardware and/or turning all graphics details to below EAW level, of course

Misha

#738659 - 03/11/01 01:40 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Switch off VSYNC using NvMax Geforce TNT tweak util (you can get it from 3dfiles.com)and set RENDER to 1 frame ahead. This removed the last bit of stutter from BOB for me, this fix has already been mentioned in another post on this forum.

#738660 - 03/11/01 04:22 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Try the 1050 detonator drivers. They gave me relatively stutter free performance in 32 bit colour. Other "fixes" that worked for me include running FRAPS, turning on cockpit reflections, disabling AGP fastwrites and disabling vertical sync.

I have a 64 meg Geforce 2 GTS.

#738661 - 03/11/01 09:51 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 831
rootango Offline
Member
rootango  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 831
everywhere
silverswift,

your complaint is ligitimate.

Rowan released an incomplete sim that "could have been a contender"

the main problems are,
- the stutter bug
- self repairing planes
- time/space hopping planes
- individual flightmodel problems with specific planes
- various grafix glitches with specific cards

but,

- a company like rowan makes a deliberate ruthless financial calculation, they knew/thought that enough people would buy it to provide a financial profit to them.
- they feel no urgency to fix the main bugs, and they might even have cornered themselves with buggy code, so that it would require a major rewrite to solve those issues (= they probably will never address them)

remember, they never solved the multiplayer bugs in mig alley either ( even if that was claimed to be a feature on the game box)

how to solve this ?
- obtain the source code and fix it ourselves
- promote some form of direct action against rowan
- publicise the problems, so others wont give rowan their money
- promote pirated versions of this product, so it reduces rowans profit
- go to the rowan office and ask for your money back ( since most software sellers dont allow you to return it)

remember, this product was released in nov-dec 2000, and it is now mid march 2001, there is not even official recognition by rowan that there is even a problem. and various splutters of (indirect)positive news is only aimed at reducing the heat of the critisism.

now walk over to your nearest window, open it, and yell out " I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER"


------------------
i have seen the enemy,
and them is us.


Be advised, we got zips in the wire
#738662 - 03/11/01 05:13 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
CRASH - SimHQ Offline
Senior Member
CRASH - SimHQ  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
Antioch, CA
Just a note ... promoting piracy of anything on these boards will get you banned with no second chance.

------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#738663 - 03/11/01 07:38 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Silverswift Offline
Member
Silverswift  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Milwaukee WI
IMO, I think in many & worst ways, BoB suffers from what Jane's F-18 does; a game written on top of another game. Alot of companies, to save time and money with a sequel, just adds code to the existing engine, leaving the old game fairly intact underneath it. Sometimes it works, CFS2, (but again, I'm not a cheerleader for MS), and sometimes it doesn't, Janes F-18. C'mon! Is there anything really in that game that should make it run @ 1/4 the performance of F-15 on a given system? Now, I consider my self a loyal customer to a company that have proven it's loyalty to it's audience, such as Rowan (I was even loyal to Interactive Magic, right up to the end. Bought iF-22, War INC, that WW2 tank sim, and tried iF-18, all were completely terrible!). So, I really don't want to bash Empire/Rowan too much, but, of course they are completely responsible for the mess that is currently BoB. They say the minimum requirements a 233. At what, 640X480? You can't even read the gauges at that resolution. I didn't bother to list the many bugs I have found in my, say 12 hours of playing BoB (before the 100% ALT-X CTDs). But when dogfighting behind a fighter, I too have seen it appear to stop in mid air, pivot 30 degrees or so, and go in a 'nurther direction. At first I thought, "Man! That cat can really fly!" But after closer observation, I'm thinking the plane came straight from Area 51. What it is, of course, is a cheating AI to make up for flat spots in the AI code. MiG Alley had the best dogfighting AI I have ever seen, w/EAW second. I mean, even F4s AI cheats a little, but it doesn't completely ignore peoples ability to use common sense. I'm not saying that CFS2 is the see all be all of sims. A campaign of separate missions definitely doesn't work any more. But, the AI, IMO, doesn't cheat, and the physics are dead nuts. At least according to several WW2 pilots. The only pilot I ever heard of, and I was very skeptical of this, was here, and mentioned via a third party. The guy stated the guy said, who was a F-51 driver in Korea, BoB feels very realistic. I have all the settings at realistic, including the joystick thingie to sim. Well, in BoB, I never once encounter a spin, compressibility, a stall in the horizontal, or adverse reactions when switching off one engine, maxxing out the other, and doing rudder turns with opposite bank, in the 110; I could regain control very easily. Try it yourself.

Now, there's something wrong with that.


Quad 9650 *
2 WD 160GB SATA, Raid 0 *
Two GTX 295, in quad *
*all water cooled by Koolance
8GB Corsair DDR3 @1600mhz
ASUS Striker 790i NSE
28" HannsG LCD
Audigy X Fi Fatal1ty Edition
1000kw Enermax PSU
Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
#738664 - 03/11/01 08:15 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 735
DanW Offline
Member
DanW  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 735
Austin, TX
You fail to realize that it costs a tremendous amout of money to make a game. Flight sims do not sell well enough to justify the cost to make them. A good development team costs anywhere from 90k - 110k a month to keep staffed.

Games are built on top of other games because in some cases, that is the only way they will ever see the light of day.

You can't keep re-inventing the wheel each time you make a game....if you do, you won't wind up making very many games.


Hook'em Horns
#738665 - 03/11/01 08:48 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have encountered spins and compressability several times except with the Me109 and Me110. In real life, however both the Me109 and the Me110 had leading edge flaps which in real life made both aircraft nearly impossible to get into a spin. So don't at all agree with you on those points.

I have seen on very rare occasions what you mentioned about the pivot. I believe the AI confuses itself while in the horizonal with a verticle wing over or hammer head as it is sometimes called). I have seen that happen with the Stukas rarely and haven't seen it with any other aircraft. I also have seen the disappearing enemy on rare occasions.

Personally I wouldn't trade a single day of playing BoB for a life time of playing the graphically superior, but otherwise (IMHO)inferior game of CFS2, but there is no accounting for taste now is there.



------------------
Ken "KC23" Cook
Feature Editor,
SimHQ.com
KC23@SimHQ.com
BoB Strategy Guide
BoB Mods & Downloads
Amazon.com and other links that help Support SimHQ

#738666 - 03/11/01 08:59 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


catso and Michael 2,

Thanks, mates, and sorry for not reporting back before now. I'll try all of your suggestions as soon as I get the time to do so, then let you know if it helps. Whether it does or not, I want to thank both of your for your replies

I realize that most of what I (and others) are asking must have been asked a million times before, but searches are really difficult to do right (99% irrelevant "hits", 1% relevant ones), which is why I (and others, probably) keep asking them. I was wondering if there was (like the case is for many other sims out there) a "fan site" with all of the FAQs and matching answers, or is it too early yet?

Thanks again

Misha

#738667 - 03/12/01 02:33 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Silverswift Offline
Member
Silverswift  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Milwaukee WI
I do realize that it takes alot of resources to produce a computer game, especially sims. So I have nothing against developers using existing software to go forward. However, only in cases in which it works. IMO, F-18 does'nt work, and BoB does'nt either. I'd bet if one could go deep enough, you'll find old code and algorithims from Flying Corp in BoB, that are no longer required. You might say that I am a little dissappointed with F-18, and after the F patch, it is'nt even buggy. But, maybe I'm unreasonble or vain here, for everthing that F-18 is, if can't run smoothly my machine, a P 1000 w/GF Ultra, 512RAM, and several newsgroup posters machines with P4s of 1.3mhz & more, then there is something wrong. If BoB crashes upon mission exits 100% of the time on, and I'm being leinent here, 20% of the machines, then there is something wrong. Sure, maybe it's a driver thing, but not a driver problem. It's a BoB problem. You know, to sum it all up, I'm just real pissed that there has been no word from Rowan in regards to a patch, and the games been out for almost 3 months now. I really want to enjoy this game! Even if Rowan said, "alright, we're working on a patch, it may take 3 months, but after the patch, BoB will be rendered perfect," that would be cool with me. I would have no complaints. But this "nothing" and all the reviews ignoring the obvious flaws in BoB, is getting too much for me. Hey, any of you guys remember about 4 years ago, someone released one of the Star Wars games that was so bug ridden, that they sent free replacement disk to everyone who sent one in? It was soooo buggy in fact, because one of the Alpha or Beta disks, not the final master, got sent to the duplication company on accident. Well, I thought for sure that that was BoB. I am so dissappointed with the fact that, for building up on a beautiful sim, it turned out, IMO, so ugly.




[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited March 11, 2001).]


Quad 9650 *
2 WD 160GB SATA, Raid 0 *
Two GTX 295, in quad *
*all water cooled by Koolance
8GB Corsair DDR3 @1600mhz
ASUS Striker 790i NSE
28" HannsG LCD
Audigy X Fi Fatal1ty Edition
1000kw Enermax PSU
Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
#738668 - 03/13/01 06:26 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by misha1967:
catso and Michael 2,

Thanks, mates, and sorry for not reporting back before now. I'll try all of your suggestions as soon as I get the time to do so, then let you know if it helps. Whether it does or not, I want to thank both of your for your replies

I realize that most of what I (and others) are asking must have been asked a million times before, but searches are really difficult to do right (99% irrelevant "hits", 1% relevant ones), which is why I (and others, probably) keep asking them. I was wondering if there was (like the case is for many other sims out there) a "fan site" with all of the FAQs and matching answers, or is it too early yet?

Thanks again

Misha


OK, so I'm talking to myself, but a promise is a promise...

Tried the reflections, no change...
Already had Vsynch off and render to 1 frame ahead, no joy...
Disabling AGP fastwrite only gave me a hit in performance...
The 10.50 drivers gave me a hit of 300 3DMarks... In the wrong direction Back to 6.50 for me...
Last thing to check is whether running with FRAPS will change anything. It seems illogical to me that having another program running in the background that does nothing but eat mem and report framerates should change anything, but I'm pretty much willing to try anything, with the exception of installing DirectX 8.0

This last because of the inability to uninstall the junk if it doesn't work. My philosophy with regards to Microsoft "crashware" is that you don't upgrade unless you HAVE to. By the time upgrade is mandatory, there's at least a chance in Hell that it might have been debugged enough to actually run.

(Makes me wonder how on Earth they managed to come up with CFSII. Flawless, runs without tweak or upgrade and has a killer framerate to boot... Rowan, take a trip to Seattle at your earliest convenience. You might learn how to program... Pretty sad when you're so inept that you have to turn to Microsoft for assistance, don't you think?)

Misha



[This message has been edited by misha1967 (edited March 13, 2001).]

#738669 - 03/13/01 07:52 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I guess I should add that I have directx 8a installed. It doesn't cause any problems in any programs on my system. I understand there are freeware utilities out there that will uninstall it, but I don't have any direct experience with doing that.

It's possible that the 1050 drivers might require directx 8 to get anything out of them. Believe me, those drivers made a huge difference for me. It was completely unplayable in 32 bit colour without them.

Interestingly, I find turning off force feedback kill's what little stutter I still have. Now I'm wondering if a USB stick might do the trick...

Turning sound acceleration down to "basic acceleration" seems to help as well and I can't notice any difference in the sound.

But I agree, we shouldn't have to be doing any of this.

[This message has been edited by Michael 2 (edited March 13, 2001).]

#738670 - 03/13/01 01:59 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmm... Maybe I'm too paranoid about installing Microsloth software on my machine
It just seems to me I heard 'bout a lot of people having trouble after installing 8.0 and I know that I had a TRUCKLOAD back when 7.0 was new... And yes, I'm aware of the utils for unloading DirectX, only trouble is, if you eff upp the process (which, at least for the 7.0 uninstallers, was quite a complicated process) anywhere, your 'puter is really FUBAR'ed.

But you say you haven't had any trouble with the 8.0a drivers. Maybe DirectX has passed the "magic point" in the update process by now

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael 2:
But I agree, we shouldn't have to be doing any of this.

[This message has been edited by Michael 2 (edited March 13, 2001).]


Absolutely right on that one! However, it's good to know, when you have to anyways, that you're not alone and there are people like you out there ready and willing to help

Thanks

Misha

#738671 - 03/13/01 03:51 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Silverswift- This is kind of off-topic, but what kind of frame rate do you want from a flight sim? I find F-18 pretty playable (with most details on medium) on my celly-600. Yes, it does chug at times(10fps) with a lot of planes in the air, but then so did Falcon4, and I'm generally too busy with avionics etc to notice.
Unless I sit and stare at the framrate counter, it really doesn't bother me. The depth of the simulation more than make up for the slowness.

#738672 - 03/13/01 06:02 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Silverswift:
I have a P3 1000 w/512RAM, and a GeForce Ultra 64. I loved Empire, and their razor egded stand on the ultimate in simulation, always respected ALL of their sims since 1996 (starting w/GS's Hornet & Flying Corps), but I have to stand to protest; this BoB is all wrong, and all bad! I'll start by saying all is not lost, a big patch will make this sim king, but as it stands now, it's not even worthy of it's own topic. Seriously, how many people got this sim to install correctly from the CD the first time? How many crashes are acceptable in when you try to exit the game? I mean, it's ridicolous. "Paint Ball" extreme, made for about $15,000 had less CTDs. And all the while, CFS2 (BTW, I'm definately not a cheerleadr for MS) gets average and below average reviews. Well, it never crashed on me once, and I don't think anyone can say that graphically, or physics-wise for that matter, it's inferior to BoB. But, everyone hates it! Why, just because MS made it! This BoB really needs to be addressed. I bought it from the UK when it first came out, and have'nt heard a peep about a patch. BoB SUCKS! (right now at least).



Are we talking about the same game????
ok fine there are a few bugs true you have to download the latest driver to enjoy the fullness of the graphics but after that wht a blast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have PIII 800Mhz Nvidia TNT2 256 Ram and i run that game in 1052*768 in 16colors and no problems at all FULL DETAILS...FULL Everything...Reflection on and the graphic is gorgeous and no stutter...
so guess what? download the latest drivers search the internet a little and stop whining...
All games now need to be patch so what? Most of gamers know that and the game are release too soon because they want to meet their budget ...and guess why the budget is tighten each year ?? because of piracy....so the budget is narrower....and the game is not completely tested on all machines...and of course need to be patch...they release plenty of patch fast enough...its a matter of moving your butt to find the right one or sometime wait a little...but in the end the games are still getting better and better and the machines you are playing with are faster and more powerful also...so you still winning so stop whining and enjoy this gorgeous game ...

#738673 - 03/13/01 06:23 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think you're pretty fortunate mate. I'm probably repeating what other people have said. Anyway, it's really not on that this game still stutters on a machine like mine: 1Ghz Athlon, GeForce 2 GTS, 256MB RAM. Frame rates are OK but the thing still stutters. Other than installing these 1050 (which I really don't fancy doing) drivers I've tried absolutely everything.

It seems that the problem is with the coding of BoB and not so much the hardware it's running on. It certainly doesn't seem to have been user tested on machines with GeForce 2 cards.

#738674 - 03/13/01 06:40 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chip butty, you can either install the drivers that make it work, or wait for a patch that might do nothing. If the drivers cause instability for you, just go back to the ones you're using now. The 1050 drivers got rid of most of my stutter and made the game playable with all graphics settings maxed (except clouds) in 32 bit colour. (Turning off force feedback completely kills the stutter, but that's a whole other issue...)

#738675 - 03/13/01 07:24 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Guess I am lucky than...
i am playing with Clouds on and Maximum details and Force Feedback on ....
the only thing is that i cannot play in 32 color each time i lock up and back to Windows.
so i am also waiting for the patch
but meanwhile i am lucky enough to play the game on both side...right now in the middle of a campaign with the luftwaffe and the possibilities are so great ...i am planning missions to low level attack on england trying to avoid a maximum the radar net of england and bombing their airfield first...the closest to the action first and in the meantime i am trying to reduce their radar network...than we will go for the juicy stuff....Factories, docks, and more airfield of course.
PIII 800mhz
Nvidia TNT2 32mb
Driver installed detonator 1080

#738676 - 03/13/01 07:25 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Although the 10.50s didn't do anything for me other than slow my system down (and that may just be my particular system), I'd still recommend that you try, chip. You can always go back to the 6.47s or (my preferred ones currently) the 6.50s if they don't help any.

Just make sure, whenever you change the drivers, to make an "intermediate" change to "Standard PCI VGA" drivers (even if you're using AGP, like I am), restart and THEN change to whatever set of nVidia drivers you wanna check out. That way you won't clutter up your registry beyond repair

And yes, you are right, no one with any sense would dispute that, it's the coding that's ridiculously inept. It fell victim to the usual combo of Greed and Piss Poor Programming.

But Rowan are, sadly, far from alone in valuing sales volume above satisfied customers, it's an industry-wide trend these days.

When IL-2 comes out and (I hope) delivers everything it promises, however, I'm sure that the Western software companies (Rowan et al) will soon realize the truth of the "Marketing 101" wisdom that they seem to have forgotten, namely that one satisfied customer is worth a hundred dissatisfied ones.

If IL-2 turns out to be just yet another overhyped, underachieving load of crap, then at least we won't be surprised. It'll just end up in the sh*tpile along with the rest. But we'll see... For now I'll just try to get this miscarriage of a sim to run acceptably until the patch that Rowan apparently are too afraid to speak of finally comes out...

Misha

#738677 - 03/13/01 08:50 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the feedback folks. I'll give the 1050's a try at some stage, although there seems to be just as many disatisfied 1050 with BoB users than satisfied.

Just a quick question regarding the 1050 drivers. Are these leaked Nvidia drivers, or are they drivers which someone has put together?

cheers.

#738678 - 03/13/01 09:01 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Cas141 Offline
Senior Member
Cas141  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Northern hemisphere
As another "whiner" with a a high end system Ighz Athlon, 256ram, GTS2 card on which BOB doesn't run, can someone give an url where these 1050 drivers can be got, please?
Are they for Win9x or are they originally for Windows NT, BTW?


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#738679 - 03/13/01 09:56 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


It looks like it's been replaced by the 1080. Although you can still find the 1050 in the download section.

Reactor Critical

#738680 - 03/14/01 01:28 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Cas141 Offline
Senior Member
Cas141  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Northern hemisphere
Thanks


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#738681 - 03/14/01 03:03 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Zmeya, ur right, consider yourself lucky.


I have an Athlon 800 T-Bird with an Ati Rage 32 MB graphics card, and I can't run this with clouds, or I'll get major jerking.
Ur also right, today games get better and better, and the game is a blast once you can run it. But it shouldn't be for the fact that somebody has to fidel more than 2 hours with his system settings till it runs.
Also ,the idea that everything gets a patch today is a true observation, but crap in my eyes.

what with all the people without net, who can't read our tips and tricks, who can't download the latest drivers, and who can't get the patch easily?

I agree that this is a great game, but dont accept the fact that "everything needs a patch today" so fast. We had that with B-17II, we have that with BoB, I hope we dont have that with IL-2. (I'm pretty sure we wont)
Yes, they have to stay within their budget and time, but thats no excuse to release half finished code. I, and many others, can't do this with our work...we have to finish what we work on, and that in time, and flawless. Why should game developers have other rights?
Its the same money you pay, be it for a new work desk, or a new game. would you accept a desk coming with only 3 legs, to be patched 1 week later with a 4th one?

Aside that, Rowan has become pretty quiet about rthe patch...not a good sign at all.

I hope, for the whole flight sim industry, that this "release first, patch later" crazyness stops...THATS IMHO what kills our genre.


[This message has been edited by RSColonel_131st (edited March 13, 2001).]

#738682 - 03/14/01 11:22 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quite right Colonel. What about the numbers of BoB fans who have no Internet access and end up taking the game back to the store? I dislike this culture where everything is patched, it must breed lazyness in programmers, "Oh well we'll fix that in a patch".

I come from a Console background (I go back to the Atari days of the seventies) and PC programmers would do well to take note of their console counterparts. They generally write much tighter and efficient code. You vary rarely see a console game with any serious bug or flaw. I accept that a PC programmers job is made much more difficult by having to write for numerous configurations. But even so.

I guess with the advent of the Internet, developers get their product to the stores as quickly as possible, knowing that they can remedy any flaws with a patch.

On a positive note - this really does seem to be a fantastic game.

#738683 - 03/14/01 06:06 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Silverswift Offline
Member
Silverswift  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,223
Milwaukee WI
F-18, hmmmm. I guess I'm getting about 12-15 FPS in the cockpit, depending on whats going on, maybe a little faster outside. BoB, this is how I would prefer to play it: 1600X1200X32, max details, I'd get 6 FPS, maybe. This is how I played before & after the upgrade (had a 733 w/ GF DDR, 256RAM): 1280X960X32, max details, except the Textures, which is on high, I get like 15-20 when alone, 10-15 with a few planes, like in "End of the Defiant," and 8-12 when a bunch of planes are about, like Sept 14, when I can get that stupid mission to run, that is. Add 1-2 FPS if I switch to 1024X768X32. IMO, that is ridiculous on a P 1000. All of my other games, except F-18, reacted extremely good to the upgrades. I can play B-17 at 1600X1200X32, w/max details, and it goes along at a very smooth 20+ FPS, with a lot of fighters about (I even have my R&R DB at 12 fighters at once, per squadron). In F4, I even gained 12 FPS, on average, during the campiagns, in the 2d cockpit (it goes at about 32 FPS, in the thick of it, at 1024X768.


Quad 9650 *
2 WD 160GB SATA, Raid 0 *
Two GTX 295, in quad *
*all water cooled by Koolance
8GB Corsair DDR3 @1600mhz
ASUS Striker 790i NSE
28" HannsG LCD
Audigy X Fi Fatal1ty Edition
1000kw Enermax PSU
Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
#738684 - 03/15/01 12:10 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by RSColonel_131st:
Zmeya, ur right, consider yourself lucky.

Aside that, Rowan has become pretty quiet about rthe patch...not a good sign at all.

I hope, for the whole flight sim industry, that this "release first, patch later" crazyness stops...THATS IMHO what kills our genre.


[This message has been edited by RSColonel_131st (edited March 13, 2001).]



Well,

That's exactly why I'm not buying BOB, even with its good points. I have acquired enough high quality sims that if I don't buy one for 5 yrs, I still have enough to keep me happy. Thus, I can really pick and choose which ones to get.

On another note, if developers would stop flooding the market with junk buggy sims, they would stop shooting themselves in the foot.

Barron out

#738685 - 03/15/01 03:01 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Allen Offline
Hotshot
Allen  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Ohio USA
I uninstalled BOB and am quietly waiting for the patch. If it doesn't come, well I'll write it off. Truthfully, I never expected the North American version to be as buggy as the European -- since the North American was released later.

Oh well, I still have European Air War to play and Il2 for the future.

Truly, the buggy from the box state of most flight sims has taken much of the luster off the genre, for me.

By the way, I congratulate the posters' on this thread for keeping the so-called "flame" at such a high level of discourse -- not really a "flame" thread at all -- just well considered discussion.

For the record, if someone actually does flame, I never open a post by that person again -- I hate genuine flame wars -- so it was with some trepidation that I opened this thread -- happy I did.


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#738686 - 03/15/01 05:08 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
That's hardly a flame, well said

I'm lucky since converting my desktop resolution, I have had no problems, cept jerkiness.

#738687 - 03/15/01 08:01 AM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Tailspin Offline
Member
Tailspin  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Metropolis,Ill USA
Well bisher...I think the "jerkiness" was the main issue with BoB to begin with.
I guess I'm a little different posting here because BoB has ran almost perfectly for me on my system from day one. I just couldn't join the "HOORAH,this is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread" crowd. Because it was obvious that there were problems with this software that went well beyond a "configuration" fix. Following hot on the heels of the B-17II debacle,it was just more than the sim community should have had to put up with. And,frankly,the attitude of some of the early "its your computer,not the game" posters was annoying,not to mention misleading. I too am glad to see some balanced and thoughtful debate(for the most part:rolleyes . I understand why people go "ga,ga" over this sim. I think some have let their enthusiasm overcome their judgment about the overall "product" that was released a month before its projected release date. That should have sent up the warning flags.

------------------
Joke 'em if they can't take a ....


Joke em if they can't take a....
#4484688 - 07/31/19 09:25 PM Re: I came here to flame, and that's exactly what I'm doing! [Re: Silverswift]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
Yes but my jerkiness does not distract from the immersion to the point I don't enjoy the game

Though it has been 18 years since I made my original post smile So I really can't remember wink

Last edited by bisher; 07/31/19 09:28 PM.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0