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#695401 - 12/30/05 10:20 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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**Bad0gre Offline
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Yes, some very good points from AB1 Gibson.
The replacement for RB3D, from an MMP point of view, will need to address some pertinent issues. Not least of which is ease of operation. I'm sure the many headaches associated with getting RB to work put many off completely.

I have heard that one of the biggest problems with CFS3 MMP was the ease with which various elements of the game can be hacked. Is this true? I know hacking is rife in most Online games these days as well as efforts to eradicate it but unless we have a level playing field I can't see it being anything other than fodder for our SP enthusiasts!


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#695402 - 12/30/05 05:01 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Ivan Putski Offline
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I have`nt been here in awhile, I have RB3D on a seperate rig, an old P-III with a Voodoo 3 3000 card, I play it daily. Just installed CFS3, patched it, ran it, then installed OFF, and it`s patches. You have to remember OFF is an infant right now, but it has great potential, already new missions are being made, skins, and all types of improvements are in the works. I think the OFF dev. team has done a splendid job so far, and has given new life to a sim that got off to a bad start (CFS3), and was all but dead. There`s been a lot of fixes to Off, and two more phases to come, and I`m sure many improvements to both offline, and online play will be fortcoming. With all the modders out there we should see some pretty amazing stuff. Puts





"Is he?....Yeah....Nothings moving but,his watch"

Ivan
"Half Bader"
Putski
#695403 - 12/31/05 05:11 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Boom Offline
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Being a die-hard RB3D fan I haven't really considered any of the WWI add-on games out.

So OFF is an add-on for CFS3? Is it a d/load? And did i see someonesay that the SWISSA great were involved?


"Somewhere out there is page 6!"
"But Emillo you promised ....... it's postpone"
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#695404 - 12/31/05 05:28 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Birdbrain Offline
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Heh, that N17 looks awfully familiar! "Dead" for SP means, "my PC can't run it". Like Ivan, it is no problem for me since I am still using a fairly old machine with Win98. For MMPers, "dead" also means, "The servers are empty", and I gather this is not yet the case, at least for organized wars. I know my old squad, JGS4, participated in the 2005 RBWL tournament. BadOgre makes a good point about hacking.

As to the difficulty of finding mods for an updated game, you really need go no further than the Hell's Angels site ( http://www.jamrom.com/hellsangels/main.htm ) to get a great SP game going. Flybert has gathered the other UOP's together at RedBaronPlayers ( http://redbaronplayers.net/uopmods1.htm ). For MMP though, there's really no substitute for Glide. And even though dgVoodoo works very well for me in SP, it can't handle a really large furball well, which is why I laid up a Voodoo 5 for the day this machine would be retired.

There is no law that says you can only have one computer. I have a still-older PC, (AMD 300, Voodoo 3, SoundBlaster 16), that has Jane's F-15, IAF, Longbow 2, Hind, Tac-Ops and SSI's Age of Rifles on it.

S!


As ever,
Birdbrain
#695405 - 12/31/05 06:04 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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TheHammer Offline
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OFF is available for d/l.

http://off.oldbrowndog.net/

i don't know abour swwisa folks being involved. some folks from FS-WW1 were involved, i do know that. they probably have a list of folks on their site somewhere.

if you try it, follow install directions exactly.


Helmut Fritz
Wings of Fury, XO
http://www.rlgaming.com
#695406 - 12/31/05 09:04 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Shredward Offline
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Well, I would hardly categorise us as SWISSA greats; diehards, yes - many of us are involved with OFF to some degree. If we thought that we were going to build a sim that was almost as good as RB, we would not bother. We hope to take OFF to depths that RB could not go - there are hints of that already. That being said, I still play RB (my puter won't run CFS3 - how bad is that?), and I don't see that changing, even when I get a new rig. But I do look forward to getting Flanders Fields on my screen.
cheers,
shredward


We will remember them.
#695407 - 01/02/06 08:32 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AB1 Gibson:
What makes RB3D special to me, and the reason I play it more than any other game is a combination of several reasons. They are its MMP Capabilities, the RB3D Community, the Established Squadrons, the Organized and Structured Events (Red Baron World League Tournaments, Monkey Island Tournaments, War Forces Tournaments, etc), and of course its a great and fun game to play.

I just DL'ed OFF tonight and played it for the first time, and it was a lot of fun. It definitely seems to have potential, but before it could ever replace RB3D for me, it would have to have all the things I mentioned above, and we will have to see if that happens.

Regards,
Perhaps, but for most of us all that squadron sutff doesn't mean anything. You seem to be in it as much for the social component as anything else. I could care less about that part of a flight sim (MP, squadrons, etc.). To each his own, I guess.


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#695408 - 01/02/06 10:04 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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TheHammer Offline
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i would wager that the majority of folks don't play MP - but let me tell you they are missing out on the largest satisfaction of gaming! but you are correct, to each his own. i generally will not touch a game unless it has solid MP capabilities, especially coop.


Helmut Fritz
Wings of Fury, XO
http://www.rlgaming.com
#695409 - 01/05/06 03:37 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  

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Salute Everyone!
Before i could get really excited about this Sim or any other flight sim it has to have a great Multiplayer. Theres nothing better then teaming up with your Squad mates for online air to air combat. As i see it RB3D still out shines all flight sims in this aspect. If OFF can create a stable online wars between Allieds and the Axes, It might have a chance to compare with RB3D. It needs to combine bombers with fighter escorts to be a fun online game. So far this game sounds great, but i see no one talking how great online play is. Plus you can`t find CFS3 anymore in most stores. Honestly i feel there will never be a game match RB3D. I feel sorry for you new flight simmers, you will never have the feeling of taking off from a airfield with 15 of your team mates. Its something you can only find in a old Pentium 2 computer game. RB3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
US95 Maj. Rooster

#695410 - 01/05/06 10:12 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Boom Offline
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So true Rooster. \:\)


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#695411 - 01/06/06 10:44 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
Joined: Mar 2005
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FLGibsonJr Offline
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Clinton Township, MI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Plainsman:
Quote:
Originally posted by AB1 Gibson:
What makes RB3D special to me, and the reason I play it more than any other game is a combination of several reasons. They are its MMP Capabilities, the RB3D Community, the Established Squadrons, the Organized and Structured Events (Red Baron World League Tournaments, Monkey Island Tournaments, War Forces Tournaments, etc), and of course its a great and fun game to play.

I just DL'ed OFF tonight and played it for the first time, and it was a lot of fun. It definitely seems to have potential, but before it could ever replace RB3D for me, it would have to have all the things I mentioned above, and we will have to see if that happens.

Regards,
Perhaps, but for most of us all that squadron sutff doesn't mean anything. You seem to be in it as much for the social component as anything else. I could care less about that part of a flight sim (MP, squadrons, etc.). To each his own, I guess.
I admit that my perspective is definitely from the MP side. Since I began playing MP games I have basically lost interest in SP. I try to play them sometimes, but they just can't keep my interest for very long. Every once in a while a SP game will interest me, like last year's Civil War Bull Run game by MadMinute Games, but that is rare. To me there is no experience in gaming that can compare to organized MP play, but I of course understand that everyone has their own opinion.

Regards,

Gibson


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#695412 - 01/07/06 07:04 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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TheHammer Offline
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I am with Gibson there. I hardly touch anything SP nowadays.


Helmut Fritz
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#695413 - 01/07/06 09:48 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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ricnunes Offline
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Well I have a diferent oppinion/taste.
Today I rarelly play anything MP, I always play SP.
To me MP is only worth if it has an excelent Co-Op and for a game to be excelent in MP Co-Op at first it must be good in SP.
MP dogfights in my oppinion are only fun at first but then it becomes boring since the objective is always to anihilate the adversary (there is no objective, no battle progress except for personal score and absolutely storyline or campaign progress).
But this is only my oppinion...

#695414 - 01/08/06 06:13 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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TheHammer Offline
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ric...,
no, that is definitely one of the requirements i have as well. coop, and mission based coop - not like sfp1 or eaw (i think - never played eaw much). more like falcon 4+ or maybe lomac (that is marginal in my opinion although its mp does have some nive features).

i have never played rb3d much either. can you do coop missions? or is it all mmp with a commander of one side dictating what goes on? i would actually like to give it a try sometime.


Helmut Fritz
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#695415 - 01/08/06 08:59 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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ricnunes Offline
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ricnunes  Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steel:
ric...,
no, that is definitely one of the requirements i have as well. coop, and mission based coop - not like sfp1 or eaw (i think - never played eaw much). more like falcon 4+ or maybe lomac (that is marginal in my opinion although its mp does have some nive features).
Yeap, that's my preference in terms of Multiplayer too (mission based coop). My favourite coop games were by far Jane's LB2 and Jane's F/A-18 since could play coop campaigns which were exactly the same as the single player campaigns (with the only diference that you could have with either other humans and/or AIs) and of course the Jane's LB2 and Jane's F/A-18 campaigns were fantastic.
I've read that Falcon 4 has similar co-op multiplayer capability but unfortunally I never had the chance to try it.

And that's exactly why I say that for a game/sim to have an excelent Co-op Multiplayer capability it MUST be in the first place an excelent single player game/sim!


Quote:
i have never played rb3d much either. can you do coop missions? or is it all mmp with a commander of one side dictating what goes on? i would actually like to give it a try sometime.
Well, RB3D was another game that I never try it's multiplay (only tried single player) so unfortunally I can't answer you questions, maybe others here can?

#695416 - 01/10/06 11:25 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricnunes:
Well I have a diferent oppinion/taste.
Today I rarelly play anything MP, I always play SP.
To me MP is only worth if it has an excelent Co-Op and for a game to be excelent in MP Co-Op at first it must be good in SP.
MP dogfights in my oppinion are only fun at first but then it becomes boring since the objective is always to anihilate the adversary (there is no objective, no battle progress except for personal score and absolutely storyline or campaign progress).
But this is only my oppinion...
Agreed! I only fly SP. In past years, back when RB3D was new, I played MP occasionally but it didn't light my fire even when I won! It got boring. Since then, I've been strictly SP for flight sims. Realistic tactical shooters like the Rainbow Six line, I play strictly MP, but the opposite for flight sims.

Without strong SP mode, campaigns and such, I would never buy a flight sim. Damn, I love Over Flanders Fields single player!!


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#695417 - 01/11/06 03:10 PM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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FLGibsonJr Offline
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Clinton Township, MI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ricnunes:
Well I have a diferent oppinion/taste.
Today I rarelly play anything MP, I always play SP.
To me MP is only worth if it has an excelent Co-Op and for a game to be excelent in MP Co-Op at first it must be good in SP.
MP dogfights in my oppinion are only fun at first but then it becomes boring since the objective is always to anihilate the adversary (there is no objective, no battle progress except for personal score and absolutely storyline or campaign progress).
But this is only my oppinion...
Interesting. I play almost all MP now days, and I enjoy the organized tournaments and events like Red Baron World League, War Forces, Monkey Island, etc etc by far the most. Co-Op is kind of nice, but to me there is nothing like playing with your squadron against another squadron. Nothing in my mind simulates a real air battle, nearly as well as does that.

To fight a simulated battle with real objectives, coordinating all your efforts with your squad mates, as you battle against the ingeniousness of equally committed human opponents, as opposed to just AI, to me is the ultimate in simulation gaming. To listen in on Ventrilo as your unseen squad mates engage the enemy, in another portion of the map, will keep you on the edge of your seat, and feeling real frustration in not being able to help. Then to depend on your squad mates and in return them depending on you when you engage the enemy, is as true a simulation as you can get. There is almost a real feeling of accomplishment when saving a squadmate from the enemy, and of course the opposite feeling when you fail to do so.

Often after fighting a battle for 2.5 or 3 hours, there is a real sense of satisfaction if you were able to do well, and at the same time being physically and emotionally exhausted. I just don't have that same feeling after playing a SP game.


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#695418 - 01/12/06 03:47 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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Birdbrain Offline
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I think ricnunes is describing the play on open servers. Organized team-target wars are very different, as AB1 Gibson describes very well. I was a bomber with JGS4 for a season, the year they won the RBWL cup. It was an experience that I will never forget. War Forces was even better, in spite of its flaws, though I only played a few times.

In the end, though, it was just too much for me. 2 + 1/2 hour games were too long, I felt, and my family life suffered on account of the length of the tournament. And sometimes, I thought, MMP got a little _too_ personal.

Shorter SP games suited me better. And the SP campaign began to see remarkable improvements at the time with the release of comprehensive patches and new flight and damage models. I have flown some incredible and challenging missions with the Hell's Angels patch.

I'm looking forward to tasting OFF. Got CFS3. Now I just need a new PC. \:\)


As ever,
Birdbrain
#695419 - 01/15/06 12:19 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 415
LE Heureux Offline
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NE Colorado USA
SP and MMP...I like them both...but mostly play MMP. No doubt about it...the tournaments are the best and also require definite scheduling committment in Real Life.

It's nice to put SP on hold to answer a phone or reply civilly to something one's long suffering wife has said.

One of the worst enemies of enjoyment in MMP is the worry of hacking. The suspicion of it has probably caused more ill will than the actual hacks.

If hacking is a problem in any new game it will be a major hindrance to gaining fans, particularly me.

S! Hex


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#695420 - 01/15/06 04:26 AM Re: Looks Like RB3D is Dead!?!  
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**Bad0gre Offline
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I don't wish to detract from the fine effort these people have put in to OFF, but having tried it out with all the latest patches it still has a long way to go. I was delighted with the results using TrackIR but the difference between the AI FM and your pilot's FM was disappointing. I understand that this cannot be changed as it is hardcoded....a shame. Still, I will watch with interest, but I don't see it being a serious contender. I have spoken to three people this week who have tried it and, interestingly, it peeked their interest in WW1 enough to fly RB again! ;\)


** Col. Bad0gre_ACO
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