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#691894 - 04/24/03 01:46 AM OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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This comes from: Worthplaying

"Aspect Simulations announces the development of their World War I combat flight simulation, KNIGHTS OVER EUROPE. Brought to you by a team whose collective experience includes Red Baron II, the Falcon 3 series, the Close Combat series and Fly II, KNIGHTS OVER EUROPE brings the dawn of aerial combat up-to-date with leading edge graphics, high fidelity flight models and precision damage modeling. Dozens of highly detailed aircraft with historically accurate markings will set the stage for an experience that will attract both hard-core flightsim fans and novices alike. Read more for details and screens

Take to the skies in any one of over a dozen painstakingly detailed aircraft. With leading-edge graphics, high-fidelity flight models, in-your-face action, realistic tactics and endless depth of play, you won't be left wanting. Whether rushing toward the earth on an attack run, weaving through the sky during a dogfight, or ducking between the clouds on a reconnaissance mission, you'll have to continually remind yourself that you're fighting from the safety of your own home.

Features :

Ultra-realistic Flight Models
Dozens of Flyable Aircraft
Cutting-edge Damage Modeling
High_Resolution Terrain
Advanced 3D Graphics Engine

Take pleasure in slicing away at your enemy in a classic dogfight or blowing your opponent to bits in a full-throttle zoom attack. Either way you'll never cripple an enemy the same way twice. Thrill as you watch individually tracked bullets punch precise holes into your prey. Savor the pain of your enemy as holes develop into tears handicapping their aircraft. Relish the moment of victory as you continue to hammer them; splaying chunks of wood and fabric into the air, as their airplane disintegrates around them or bursts into flames. But beware of flying debris, lest you fall victim to your own handy work!

If you've been longing for a truly thrilling air combat experience, then you've been waiting for "Knights Over Europe". Take a break from the complex cockpits of today and do some serious stick and rudder work in the deadly skies of World War I."



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Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#691895 - 04/24/03 02:59 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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The home web site is http://www.aspectsimulations.com They said around 2nd quarter 2004 as a release date. \:\)


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#691896 - 04/24/03 03:30 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Is it me or does that terrain look awfully like some of the user made terrain for RB3D?

#691897 - 04/24/03 03:43 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mossey:
Is it me or does that terrain look awfully like some of the user made terrain for RB3D?
Not enogh contrast in the colour!

\:D \:D \:D

#691898 - 04/24/03 04:02 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Hey! Any new WWI sim has my backing. There are so few new ones these days! \:D


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#691899 - 04/24/03 10:33 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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The terrain looks sort of like a morph of old Promised Land, new Promised Land, and Tom Winter's spring. Hope to see KoE on a shelf someday.

Hope I don't need another new computer by second quarter 2004. \:D

#691900 - 04/24/03 02:29 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Hmmmm. I'm not up on what state of the art graphics for new game releases are, but the artwork already available for Red Baron beats this and Kess' upcoming FCJ release will be even better than that.

Something doesn't look right about the perspective shots at the website linked and the aircraft are too clean. I really DO like the damage modeling, though.

The real acid test wil be how she plays, though. It is exciting to see new games being developed for the WW1 air genre. I look forward to learning more...


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#691901 - 04/24/03 02:47 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hentzau:
The terrain looks sort of like a morph of old Promised Land, new Promised Land, and Tom Winter's spring. Hope to see KoE on a shelf someday.

Hope I don't need another new computer by second quarter 2004. \:D
......You'll need that just for ROTJ III.

LOL!

\:D :p \:D

#691902 - 04/24/03 03:16 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Hopefully it will include a multiplayer option, co-op, and a dynamic campaign. The WW2 pacific offering shown on their web site is good news too IMO.

#691903 - 04/24/03 06:09 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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LE Heureux, what artwork are you talking about? Do you mean the skinning? 3d models or what? You cant say Rb3d looks this good, because it simply just cant... (The graphics engine can't handle such detail) There is no way to use the polygon counts and the hi-res skins that newer sims have these days. Heck, RB3d still uses 2d bmp cockpits for the most part! ;\) Now Im not bashing RB3d mind you, Im just saying it's really showing its age in the graphics department (And yes I do fly RB3d with all the latest and greatest Patches) Just look at the detail here!







Sometimes I think you guys should get out of the closet more often and see what else is out there! \:D Now if you guys think that this:



Is better looking than this in terms of detail, resolution, and 3d modeling:



Then you should get your glasses checked. ;\)


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#691904 - 04/24/03 11:12 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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I'm afraid I flunked basic Red Baron graphic design and don't understand the relationship between models and just skins. I know the wrong skin can skew a good model. CdT's Sopwith strutter has a raked back top wing on my PC because of the MMP skins I use, from what Uhlan tried to explain to me at Rhinebeck. I didn't understand a word.

Of course, one can't dispute that a new game takes advantage of all sorts of advances in pc power.

The homepage posted at Delphi wouldn't download, so all I could see was the few screen shots from the above link and I wasn't that impressed. Hadn't seen the Alb, D7 and Sop pix, which do look very nice. They aren't screenshots, however.

I liked the Spad you reposted the best, but wasn't wild about it or the other screenshots. Something is off about the perspective and the things are too clean. I really don't think that Spad is significantly better than the old RB picture--Not considering the state of the art graphics available to the game designers.

Hopefully they will improve the thing as they get closer to release. I certainly await further news with great interest.


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#691905 - 04/24/03 11:38 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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All this talking about perspectives, colors and terrain, hey! this is a work in progress, remember? things just will get better. I am very exited about this sim.


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#691906 - 04/25/03 12:40 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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For crying out loud don't get defensive and knock this project! Or start comparing it to RB3D. It's a new sim under development and will take some time for it to get sorted out.

How about for now we simply support the effort behind it and give these guys every encouragement. After all it's 18 months away from release (at this stage) so it's reasonable to expect there will be quite a few changes and improvements.

Once it goes Beta then we can be constructively critical and nitpick. But for now just give them some positive support. \:\)


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#691907 - 04/25/03 01:02 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Thumbs up from me for any new WWI sim... the newest tech possible has to make at least a great eyecandy game,,, and the potential for dynamic campaign can only be hoped for,, and perhaps asked for at this stage of the game. no telling what may happen if we fall behind them.. look at the early days of RBII. hehe:)

anvil

#691908 - 04/25/03 01:26 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Le Heureux did you notice their home page pics.. thats Denver,,Longs Peak, the Capitol etc,, they are based in Denver!! We can go Beat on their Door!! lol,,

Here is an excerpt from their site wrt another game,,, Note the magic words,,,, at least they are aware of

"Victory At Guadalcanal
Whether it's flying a Zeke or Wildcat, maneuvering destroyers and cruisers or commanding a carrier task force, Victory At Guadalcanal adds the perfect blend of flight simulation, naval simulation and strategy to a highly dynamic campaign and large scale multiplayer. The result is explosive. "

Hopefully that will be a part of the WWI sim as well

anvil

#691909 - 04/25/03 03:44 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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I agree with Argon V; any new WWI sim would be welcome. But it will have to jump over a very high hurdle which has been established by RB3D's great add-ons.

A word of advice to the development team...graphics are great, but it is the dynamic campaign structure that sets RB3D apart from all others, and explains why so many of us continue to play that sim. So be sure to have a campaign structure like RB3D, and not some scripted 20-30 missions which can't be altered...

For my 2 cents, I think the terrain looks like a mod of the stock EAW terrain more than anything else...

Moondawggie \:\) \:\) \:\) \:D

#691910 - 04/25/03 04:20 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Hello guys! I sent off an e-mail to the folks at Aspect Simulations yesterday and have already gotten a lovely e-mail back from them! \:D Neal Hall, the Vice President/Lead Engineer of Aspect Simulations responded. Here is what I wrote and his response follows:

"Hello, I am an interested party in your new simulation 'Knights Over
Europe'. Being a WWI sim flyer and active sim community memeber, aswell as the project leader of a World War One add-on to an existing simulation (http://argonv.tripod.com/FSWWI_Page/readme.htm) it brings me great joy to read of such news that a WW1 sim is underway by your company. Thus, I ask that some sort of community forum be set up for interested parties of your simulation. It would give the simming community a chance to share ideas, thoughts, insights and opinions with other memebers with the same interest in WWI simming about your new simulation, and may even provide some feedback and insight for your developement team(s).

Thank you,
Jason R. (Aka ArgonV)"

Mr. Hall responds:

"Hi Jason,

Thanks for your interest in Knights Over Europe. As I've said to some
others, we're flightsim fans just like you guys and I think we have a lot of
common opinions about what makes a good flightsim. I've been following some
of the forum threads regarding our announcement and we will be releasing
more information on the product soon. I would like to address some concerns
I've read by saying that we are still in the early stages of development on
this title and there are many details that need tweaking. What you are
seeing at this point is by no means a finished product and we will be paying
close attention to the feedback we receive from the community.

We are still in the early stages of getting our preliminary website up and
running but we do plan to host an online forum for discussion and feedback
regarding Knights Over Europe. Stay tuned!

Thanks,

Neal Hall
Vice President/Lead Engineer
Aspect Simulations, LLC
nhall@aspectsimulations.com"

Great news guys!!! \:\)


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#691911 - 04/25/03 05:11 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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I just hope it has a decent campaign.

Does anyone know WHO from the RBII team is now at Aspect Simulations?

I'm VERY interested in that PTO sim they are working on...hmmm...wonder if they could also do the MTO/Africa????


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You have no chance to survive, make your time!"
#691912 - 04/25/03 04:20 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Sounds reasonable to me Pips. I certainly look forward to following development of this game. It does look promising for something that's still a year out from scheduled release.

>>they are based in Denver!! We can go Beat on their Door!!>>

Salut Anvil! If they live here they definitely have that plus going for them. LOL!


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#691913 - 04/25/03 04:40 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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One thing I hope KoE can do that endears Red Baron to me (and I daresay a lot of people) is generate random operations along the Front that one may or may not encounter during the assigned mission, depending on which way the player flys.

Many games get boring once the player becomes familiar with the limited number of canned mission scenarios, but Red Baron keeps one interested because things are happening all along the sector whether one is there to see them or not.

I once reflew the same mission repeatedly because I kept getting killed and it was such a challenge. I followed the same flight path up to my first encounter with a pair of Halberstadts attacking a kite balloon. After dealing with them, I would resume the mission, at a different time, location and altitude, depending on how/when the first skirmish ended.

From then on, my encounters with the Hun varied considerably and the anticipation was wonderful. I never knew quite when where or in what circumstances I'd run into the next opponent, because the Huns were doing their own thing whether I showed up or not. And because the misson itself was randomly generated, I have never seen one like it again. That's A-OK, because I never know when I'll be surprised by some other encounter unlike anything previously experienced.


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#691914 - 04/25/03 06:11 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Hi
I'm not very experienced with sims, but I've rendered out quite a few aircraft.
And I think this new sim looks pretty exciting.

Yes, IMHO these preliminary images do have a little bit too much perspectival distortion, but that should be a simple matter of the view settings.
I also agree that perhaps these images could use a little work in the texturing department. I personaly prefer a little more worn look.
But there is obviously a lot of potential here.

It would be nice if they could provide for some kind of utility that would enable people to generate their own skins.

and..
does rendering setup allow for cast shadows or not.
just curious

Mark

#691915 - 04/25/03 08:14 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by mmiller:
[QB] Hi
I'm not very experienced with sims, but I've rendered out quite a few aircraft.
And I think this new sim looks pretty exciting.

[end quote]

Yea, I'd agree Mr Miller, you've rendered a couple.. ;O) Your work in this area is phenominal.. I've long been an admirer of your art.

Fella's, I think most of you have seen Mark Millers stuff. It's the best out there in my opinion. Exceptional art work.

So Mark, do you ever do any skins for games like this?

As far as your question regarding shadows, etc.., I'd send them an email and ask. They have been very responsive to questions and inquires so far.


Thanks again for sharing your art.

Mitch Fairley

#691916 - 04/25/03 08:59 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Mitch
Thanks for the comments

as for making skins myself,
No, I'm afraid I have absolutely no experience working in this medium. All my work is done using CAD software so the basic model definition is somewhat different (not polygon based)
Besides which, I have the luxery of NOT worrying about pixel depth, texture map sizes, and basic model complexity so I can model every last bolt if I want. \:\)
So, I believe I would have some learning to do before i could make any kind of contribution in this area.
starting out with figuring out how to use 3D studio Max.

I have tried to help out from time to time by making some of my texture maps available, but I'm afraid the guys who had to convert these images into something usable in a sim environment had quite a bit of work to do.

But if anyone think they can make use of something just contact me and I'll see what i can do

Mark

#691917 - 04/25/03 09:03 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mitchell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mmiller:
[QB] Hi
I'm not very experienced with sims, but I've rendered out quite a few aircraft.
And I think this new sim looks pretty exciting.

[end quote]

Yea, I'd agree Mr Miller, you've rendered a couple.. ;O) Your work in this area is phenominal.. I've long been an admirer of your art.

Fella's, I think most of you have seen Mark Millers stuff. It's the best out there in my opinion. Exceptional art work.

So Mark, do you ever do any skins for games like this?

As far as your question regarding shadows, etc.., I'd send them an email and ask. They have been very responsive to questions and inquires so far.


Thanks again for sharing your art.

Mitch Fairley
......And Jay Thompson.

\:D :p

#691918 - 04/25/03 09:07 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by mmiller:
Mitch
Thanks for the comments

as for making skins myself,
No, I'm afraid I have absolutely no experience working in this medium. All my work is done using CAD software so the basic model definition is somewhat different (not polygon based)
Besides which, I have the luxery of NOT worrying about pixel depth, texture map sizes, and basic model complexity so I can model every last bolt if I want. \:\)
So, I believe I would have some learning to do before i could make any kind of contribution in this area.
starting out with figuring out how to use 3D studio Max.

I have tried to help out from time to time by making some of my texture maps available, but I'm afraid the guys who had to convert these images into something usable in a sim environment had quite a bit of work to do.

But if anyone think they can make use of something just contact me and I'll see what i can do

Mark
Engine shots! Especially rotaries.....

Front shots & side shots!


#691919 - 04/25/03 09:39 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Originally posted by VonHelton:
"Engine shots! Especially rotaries.....
Front shots & side shots!"

Heres some plan views for the clerget


larger image can be downloaded here: [URL] http://briefcase.yahoo.com/mark_.m@sbcglobal.net [/URL]

look in the folder labeled "Camel"
Image name clerget plan.jpg

might also want to look in the "Albatros maps" folder

Mercedes 180 hp


more images here:
http://wwi-cookup.com/albatros/modelling_hints/profiles_markmiller.html

I'm currently working on the LeRhone for my Nieuport 17 project.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Nieuport/index.html
will post plan views when finished
HTH
Mark

#691920 - 04/25/03 09:51 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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AWESOME STUFF Mr. Miller!!! \:D Your artwork graces my 3 computers desktops to this day. \:\)


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#691921 - 04/30/03 05:08 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Mr. Millers work is top notch, thanks for posting some pics. Puts


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#691922 - 04/30/03 01:55 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by mmiller:
Mitch
Thanks for the comments

I have tried to help out from time to time by making some of my texture maps available, but I'm afraid the guys who had to convert these images into something usable in a sim environment had quite a bit of work to do.

Mark
Some amount of work, but still a small fraction of what it would have taken to do things from scratch (okay, thruth is that starting from scratch I have neither the skill nor the tools to accomplish what I did by simply using your skins \:\) ). Some went into WFP with onlya few minutes work, others took a couple of hours.

In RB we are limited to 256x256 and a 200 color palette and that is where most of the difficulty lies. If the skins of a new sim are editable then doing new skins based on your work will be orders of magnitude easier. Presumably they will be at least 512x512, maybe even 1024x1024, and should be true color. Cut, paste, shrink a but, maybe a pull here and a stretch there to make it fit in whatever format the new sim wants it to be in.


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#691923 - 05/02/03 07:51 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by mmiller:
Heres some plan views for the clerget
Got it! Danke! (You're timing is wonderful! LOL!)

\:D

Quote:
Mercedes 180 hp
Already had that one & the Le Rohne I got from either you or Jay Thompson.

;\)

The Siemeins-Halske 11 cylinder is one I'd like to have!

Liberty Engine & Viper Engine.....

Oberursel......

Hispano-Suiza (SPAD)

My engine werk........Some of it!



\:D

#691924 - 05/04/03 03:42 AM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
LE Heureux, what artwork are you talking about? Do you mean the skinning? 3d models or what? You cant say Rb3d looks this good, because it simply just cant... (The graphics engine can't handle such detail) There is no way to use the polygon counts and the hi-res skins that newer sims have these days. Heck, RB3d still uses 2d bmp cockpits for the most part! ;\) Now Im not bashing RB3d mind you, Im just saying it's really showing its age in the graphics department (And yes I do fly RB3d with all the latest and greatest Patches) Just look at the detail here!

Sometimes I think you guys should get out of the closet more often and see what else is out there! \:D
Don't start raking the chips to your side of the table just yet, I haven't started building my SPAD's yet!

\:D :p \:D


#691925 - 05/05/03 11:38 PM Re: OT: Knights Over Europe WWI Sim Announced!  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 893
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 893
Sunshine Coast, Australia
S! all,
I would love to see:
A dynamic campaign
Multiplayer
Record and replay features
Option to be the gunner on bombers
A simple skinning spray booth
Better ballistics (getting shot from the next the next county is not realistic)

Oh, and while you're at it Santa, throw in a 512 stick of Corsair XMS 3500 RAM and a case of beer. \:D


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