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#686674 - 08/29/01 03:42 PM My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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When I first started to play online I noticed a bunch of different types of games. There was one "Get the Baron" server with a glorified game of "tag" going on. There were a few "Individual Melee" servers where all pilots shared a single drome and tried to best each other (though often it ended up in a furball 50 feet over the end of the runway.) There were a few "Team Melee" servers where it was Allies vs Huns in straight aerial combat.

But the bulk of the servers were "Team Target" where you could actually WIN THE GAME by bombing the other team off the map. I noticed however that while the objective was clearly to bomb and defend from bombers, almost all the players were meleeing. As I was new to the game and stunk at flying (hence the callsign "Pepe LePeu") I figured I would learn to bomb.

Holy smoke is it ever difficult! I spent a lot of time missing targets, blowing my wings off, crashing, getting shot to bits by AA, and generally being ineffective. So I started to read the forums for more info on bombing.

Holy smoke was there ever a lot of conficting information! Firstly, I discovered not everyone was telling the whole truth: many squads have developed their own bombing techniques and guard them jealously so as to maintain an edge in tournament play.

Secondly, I found some people were misinformed. Results that they reported often worked in MMP Solo mode at veteran level but not MMP Ace difficulty level.

And third, I discovered that there was very little empirical testing done to back up any of the claims people were making. Some were just anecdotes and some were just repeated from other sources.

I can't tell you RAF bombing secrets but I can at least remove some misconceptions so you can learn for yourself (or you can join the RAF and learn EVERYTHING...)

MYTH 1: "Every target has a sweet spot." Nope. Hitting things ACCURATELY destroys them faster and with fewer bombs but there is no secret "instant kill" to be had. Anyone who reports this type of result probably tested it in MMP Solo mode at Veteran difficulty level. It does not hold true at Ace difficulty.

MYTH 2: "Don't shoot the ambulance!" Some maintain that accidentally hitting the ambulance or other "off limits" parts of a target will cause it to go hard and be impossible to detroy. While almost any target can "go hard" it ain't the ambulance that does it. I have tested this empirically and isolated the variables (an RAF secret) that cause targets to go hard. I bombed over thirty dromes on a private MMP server to get this info in case you are wondering.

MYTH 3: "But I read it on the squad web site!" I have reviewed a large number of squad bombing manuals I found on the web and have determined that ALL of them are incomplete and most contain some incorrect information. They are a good place to start but TEST EVERYTHING YOU READ before you adopt it for your own.

MYTH 4: "Nobody will tell me anything!" Yep. But if you fly bombers alongside them you will learn a lot. Ask who is bombing and then wing up with them. Then watch what they do and ask questions.

MYTH 5: "Now I'm good at it!" If you can kill seven depots in a single ammo load or kill a small drome in a single pass then come join the RAF! If you can't then join anyway and we'll teach you how.

http://raf209.cjb.net/

Finally, the best part of bombing is getting that message "The Allied Team has won the Battle" after the last target goes down.

S! And happy bombing!



------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#686675 - 08/29/01 07:20 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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S!

Well another closely guarded secret he didnt mention is er things used to get those bombs where u want em.....so join a squad with really talented bombers(like say....RAC) if you wanna know.


I will say this to any lone wolf or newbie pilots out there. The squads that do real well in wars(and its not hard to find this out) get there by having a lot of pilots who "research" things in RB (like bombing)and share the info. But only squad members will have access to it. So here is a really good reason to join one. Of course practice and training plays a BIG part as well, so successful squads will do alot of that also.

#686676 - 08/29/01 07:47 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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LOL, I know of one Lone Wolf expert bomber, that would be the Unibomber--he is the terror of the public servers!!

#686677 - 08/29/01 08:10 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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UniBomber aka JGS4_Sparks. A very skilled bomber but, like yourself, a despicable hun nonetheless His poetry is as dangerous as his bombing.

Other bombers of note:
US185_Fruitbat
BA_Tinkerbelle
RebsCSA
J18_Raider
PJ666_Klaus
RAF_[fill in the blank]

------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

#686678 - 08/29/01 08:24 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by RAC Shnoze Shmon:
Well another closely guarded secret he didnt mention is er things used to get those bombs where u want em


Assuming you don't mean those fuselage thingies with the wings on them (or the ammo truck lol), I expect you are referring to the "high altitude bombsight". The BlackAdders website has a lovely treatise on this topic with pictures and everything so the secret is out. Get out your external camera view, altimeter, transparencies, waterproof markers and a frosty six pack of wobbly pops before you start. I will leave it to the indivdual to decide whether hi-alt bombing is the optimal way to drop targets.

------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

#686679 - 08/29/01 10:21 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  
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>>...whether hi-alt bombing is the optimal way to drop targets.>>>
Dunno, but I was low over the field, defending a 'drome against the B.A.'s in RBWL recently when they hit with a combination of high dive and low level bombing...and I must say it was certainly EXCITING to hear the whistle of the approaching bombs...I nearly wet myself...then we shot 'em all down.
Au revoir en l'air...S!
Heureux


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#686680 - 08/30/01 04:35 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Ahh Bombing. Nothing is quite so much fun as the total destruction of enemy Targets.

I am a bomber some skill, not as much as those mentioned above or countless others. But if you want to get good, I mean real good at bombing. Your best bet is to join up with a squadron that likes bombing and is good at it. BA, RAF, RAC, JGS4, PJ666, US185th,ect... I know one of the reasons I joined BA was because of their bombing.
By the way what you saw us do was Dive Bombing, a skill I have yet to master but BAIsham has perfected.

S! All Bombadiers

#686681 - 08/30/01 06:02 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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S!

Reference to bombsight yes! High alt no.

#686682 - 08/30/01 12:53 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by RAC Shnoze Shmon:
Reference to bombsight yes! High alt no.


Lol I use MARK I eyeball and F5 view for low level bombing. Skunks have naturally good eye/hand co-ordination.

Dive bombing can be effective but keep in mind that a dive leaves you open to brutal AA fire. If you dive on a defended target (or zoom back up after a dive) then the AA has a good chance of flaming, headshooting or badly damaging you meaning you might get this target but you sure won't get another. My favourite bomb run is to sneak in low under the AA, drop the target and then leave without anyone having seen you (skunks are naturally stealthy...)

------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

#686683 - 08/30/01 03:49 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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The Hi-alt bombing paper was written before the onset of GW4, and was more relevant to that FM than NFM and even AFM. It's one thing to zip into a target with an N17 or D2 in NFM, another to lumber in flying an HP 0/400 or a Gotha. I don't know if it was real or perceived, but the AA and flak in that FM were quite unmerciful, making hi-alt a viable option to explore. It works with slow-moving planes like the GW bombers, but the time and skill required to be effective with it made it impractical to use most times. As for NFM, where the N17 and D2 are mostly used to bomb, it's useless - they move too fast.

But damn is it FUN!

#686684 - 08/30/01 07:15 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Like the malodorous one, I am an afficionado of the low-altitude approach. I spend as much of my time as possible at less than 50ft. above ground level...both during the approach to the target and during the bombing run. Granted, it leaves you very vulnerable to enemy fighters because you don't have any altitude to trade for energy but on the positive side, I have found that in most cases any enemy flying above about 2000m won't spot you, even with the 'N' key unless they are directly overhead.

Bombing at low altitude dramatically improves accuracy and signficantly reduces the amount of AA you are exposed to. If I stay low enough, most of the time even the machine guns don't shoot at me.

I also bomb in F5 view using the Mark IA eyeball for target placement(improved version of the one the scented weasel uses).

#686685 - 08/30/01 07:36 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  
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>>I have found that in most cases any enemy flying above about 2000m won't spot you, even with the 'N' key unless they are directly overhead.>>

How did YOU know they were there? Just visual scanning? I know one can sometimes see a speck in the distance farther that the N key will detect.

I also like the f5 + eyeball low level approach...low enough not to "wake up" the machine guns.

Au revoir en l'air...S!
Heureux

PS---I have yet to figure out by empirical testing WHY Uni says one should take out the MG nests at a 'drome first. Care to expound?

S! Hex


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#686686 - 08/30/01 08:37 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Just a comment regarding taking out the NME MGs first.

How many times have you stealthfully worked your way to a drome, found no one home to defend it, came in low (under the AA fire??) only to have an MG get in a Header or Flamer and take you out before you get a chance to deliver your parcel??

It happens all the time.

I will ALWAYS take out the MGs first if there are no defenders. If done correctly, one can take out ALL of the MGs without taking a single hit, and then casually, with deadly accuracy, drop your bombs. If done correctly, one person can take out the small and medium-sized dromes all by themselves--you can't do that and dodge MG fire at the same time. And heres a secret, if you get shot with a header and crash into a hangar, the drome hardens!!
Even in the whimpy N17 (yeah, I'll admit that the Allied are getting screwed when it's the N17 vs the Alby D2 as bombers, but that's a different debate) can easily take out 4 MGs and destroy the Small and Mid-sized dromes IF they take out the MGs first.

Take it from a seasoned RBWL bomber pilot, DO THE MGs FIRST!!

Frank

#686687 - 08/30/01 09:00 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by LE Heureux:
I have yet to figure out by empirical testing WHY Uni says one should take out the MG nests at a 'drome first. Care to expound?


S! Hex,

First of all Unibomber is a hun. Do you really want to take advice from a Hun? Of course not! So here is advice from a skunk (who may be flying against you in the playoffs.) Skunks are natural authorities and would never post anything misleading where his foes were concerned.

Ahem.

Some bombers will take out MG nests to prevent AA fire. That way scouts are subsequently free to cap the drome without taking AA damage and can effectively supress the drome by shooting defenders just after they take off.

This type of low alt, close-in suppression is particularly suited to the DR1 and so taking out MG nests at a drome is typically a hun tactic done in the twin gn DII. The Allied N17 bomber has only one gun and is less useful for strafing plus the Allies lack a rugged turner with high powered guns to fill the role.

As an aside it is worth noting the the PJ666 server rules state: "3. Scouts may strafe AA emplacements and machine gun nests." This is consistent with the hun use of a flight of DR1s to destroy drome gun emplacements and then effectively close cap an enemy drome. In contrast, RBWL rules specifically prohibit scouts from strafing ANY target in order to encourage the role of bombers in scoring points. (Important Note: PJ666 is an impeccably honourable team and their server rules DO NOT allow shooting planes on the runway. You MUST allow planes to take off and make one turn first.)

Another reason for taking out MG nests early is that subsequent bombing runs on the same drome can be made without damaging AA on a high approach.

Finally, the nests also contribute to destroying the drome -- take out more tents, shacks and MG nests and you need to hit fewer hangars to drop the target. However in half the time it takes to drop the nests and other stuff you could drop the whole drome.

"De gustibus nil disputandum"

Hope this clears things up. Anyone who joins the RAF will learn all this stuff including how often Unibomber/JGS4_Sparks washes his socks! (Trick question: He's a Hun so the answer is NEVER!

------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

#686688 - 08/30/01 09:08 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinman:
How many times have you stealthfully worked your way to a drome, found no one home to defend it, came in low (under the AA fire??) only to have an MG get in a Header or Flamer and take you out before you get a chance to deliver your parcel??

It happens all the time.


(Pepe buys Allied AA gunners a beer... and they stand around having a drink and admiring the singed rudder off Tinman's DII)

Lol Tinman quit the dark side and join the RAF! We'll show you how to bomb LARGE dromes in one visit with one plane and no AA problems.

You usng F5 view Frank?

------------------
Lt. Pepe LePeu, DSO, AFC, BO
Flight Leader Charlie
209 Squadron RAF

#686689 - 08/30/01 09:37 PM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Bombers, schmombers...Be an ATTACK driver...best of both worlds....

Fighter pilots make movies, attack pilots make HIS-TOR-REE...

#686690 - 08/31/01 01:06 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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Interestingly enough, I rarely take much damage from AA artillery or MG fire IF I STAY LOW ENOUGH. The only times I take ground fire are when I accidentally lift a wing too high when turning for a second run on the target. Generally what I try to do, time permitting, is to make one very-low-level run...fly a respectable distance from the target and then make my turn to line up for a second pass.

Unless I encounter enemy scout aircraft, I generally egress from a target with minimal, if any, damage.

#686691 - 08/31/01 01:08 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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LOL, once you start down the dark side, you can never turn back!! NEVER!! Long live the Kaiser!!
As for views, I use the "Page Down" view (try it) when bombing. I could never learn to fly from the outside of my cockpit, so I rarely use the external views. The "page Down" view give me sort of a decent bombsight, and I've learned to use it accurately--too old to learn a new trick.

Regards,

Frank

#686692 - 08/31/01 02:57 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  
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Salut all! Thanx for the thoroughly enjoyable threads! Obviously taking out the MGs would make dive bombing and zoom climbing escapes feasible for the next wave of attackers!...think I'll try the page down view soon Tin!
Au revoir en l'air...S!
Heureux


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#686693 - 08/31/01 05:55 AM Re: My favourite topic -- BOMBING!  

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S!

Unless I get careless the only time I have trouble with MGs is attacking bridges. This is due to the tiny area between the tops of their rails and the fire cones of the AA.

95% of verticle divebombing will get you away from the target without any hits if your horizontal egress is performed properly. The AA cannot hit a verticly diving target except by luck.

I use MGs for target practice when I'm practicing my bombing. I bomb in both the F5 & F1 views so I have the option as to which might fit the situation better when the time comes that really counts. I know when I can put my eggs consistently in the center of an MG that I've got the groove down. I then take that groove and practice on the bigger targets since I use a little different system for those. I then enter the war ready to tackle anything from a large hanger on a drome to any target on a tent supply depot.

If you wanna know how I do this and what I use join RAC and I'll teach you.

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