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#664466 - 09/07/01 06:52 PM Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Silverswift Offline
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The campaign style from F4 & the psychological model from Close Combat. I think that it's pretty sure there will be a sequel to this outstanding game, unless Codemasters go under. What do you guys think would make a good combo. Just wishful thinking, of course, but, ya never know whos watching......


[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 09-07-2001).]


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#664467 - 09/07/01 07:11 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  

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Sounds like thoughtful ideas, but I am not sure how well they would fit into Op: Flashpoint. Dynamic campaigns are neat and everything, but there is no way they could handle the variety of engagements in OP or the little nuances in the missions that make them so memorable. Also, I am not really sure about the psychological model of Close Comabt. From what I remember, it was limited basically to your soldiers just running away from a battle if they were losing or outnumbered. I don't think this would apply very well to the modern (or 1985) US military, who are all professional, volunteer soldiers. I just finished reading Bowden's excellent "Black Hawk Down", and despite seemingly overwhelming odds, not one soldier ran away from the battle. At best, a new psychological model might show soldiers that are slightly more aggressive or hesitant to engage the enemy, or maybe a little reckless or methodical in their approaches to combat. However, a model similar to Close Combat's would be very unrealistic.

#664468 - 09/07/01 08:43 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  

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They were rangers fighting civilians...

Regular army vs the soviets will almost definitly have some "combat fatigued" soldiers...

#664469 - 09/07/01 09:26 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Great response Chris... way to show your ignorance (or bias).

They were not just fighting civilians. They were:

1) Fighting hardened militia that had been battling for years and were very good killers who had no fear of death.

2) Fighting un-trained but well armed militia with no fear of death.

3) Fighting hundreds of civilians who had armed themselves... with no fear of death.

4) Were also engaged by thousands of unarmed civilians who helped arm the militia's and who tried to protect the armed militia's and civilians with their bodies... all with seemingly NO FEAR OF DEATH. I think I would have had less fear of the Ruskies. At least they had a fear of death.

As for Fishbed's comments.

Bowden clearly indicated that:

1) There was no place for them to run.

2) Some wanted to run or not fight but that the love for their fellow soldier AND the fact that Delta was there made the Rangers more willing to do things they otherwise would have questioned. They were all scared and wanted out badly.

A friend of mine pointed out something with the game Delta Force some years ago that I completely agree with (even today)... no squad based game has ever simulated "fear." If someone fires a SAW at you your intitial fear of being ripped into pieces far outweights your need to kill the gunner.

I would love to see "fear" simulated. I have no idea how to impliment it but it would be a great element that would work well with agression, stamina and health.

RB

#664470 - 09/07/01 10:03 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  

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Good points Razorback, but please lose the "ignorance" type comments. No need for it in a well thought out post such as yours even it was allowed on this board.

Thanks.

Ps Thank you Chris in advance for not responding with an insult right back.

[This message has been edited by KC23 - SimHQ (edited 09-07-2001).]

#664471 - 09/08/01 03:46 AM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  

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"2) Some wanted to run or not fight but that the love for their fellow soldier AND the fact that Delta was there made the Rangers more willing to do things they otherwise would have questioned. They were all scared and wanted out badly."

As I said.

No American troops ran away from battle.

And yes, some had the opportunity. Recall the the "cook convoy?" Those guys (cooks, clerks, etc.) could have easily avoided battle, but chose to go into the fight instead.

#664472 - 09/08/01 04:56 AM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Well, this thread certainly went in the wrong direction......


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#664473 - 09/08/01 02:59 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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#664474 - 09/08/01 03:06 PM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Over the hills and far away.
Euh, I wanna comment on something one said here, there's is no fighting without fear of death!!!
You can loose death out of sight for a couple of moments in the heat of the fight, but if you've seen how a face looks that is shot to pieces, you are in fear of death in ANY combat with whatever troops!
And you ALWAYS die alone, even if you're with hundreds of your own people, you go alone, at that moment you die and nobody else.
Believe me I've seen it.
Don't ask me more about this now, I had a lot of flames and hardtalk thrown to my head when I talked about this ones in the past. And I don't want that to happen again.


------------------
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.


I Want To Believe
#664475 - 09/09/01 05:36 AM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback:


I would love to see "fear" simulated. I have no idea how to impliment it but it would be a great element that would work well with agression, stamina and health.

RB[/B]


Although not squad based since a tactical unit is at least 60 men, Shogun Total War is a game that models fear in combat. All units may have a morale factor from 0 to 9. Unit victories and extra training will increase the morale factors, as will the rank and experience of their leader. Their are other related factors such as armor levels and attack rating that come into play.

During the 3D battles, which are awesome, I might add, the army's morale factors will many times decide who wins the battle given equal numbers and tactical positions. Flanked units lose morale quickly, as do units decimated by archery or musket fire.

If the Taisho or leader is killed, the whole army may route. Likewise, sometimes a routing unit will cause a domino effect as it runs through the other units. The units also become fatigued as they fight and this is also factored into the fear/morale criteria.

I separate this game from most of the other hex based war games, simply because after all of your resource and strategic management you go to a 3D battle field with as many as several thousand little screamin' Samurai. A massed cavalry charge is something to behold. It is like being in your own epic feudal Japanese war movie.

I hope I didn't stray too far away from the topic here, but it seems that the new exansion pack for this game has changed some of the morale factors, so almost this exact discussion has been raging for the past few days at the totalwar.org site.

Cheers

------------------
Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 09-09-2001).]


Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
#664476 - 09/09/01 08:59 AM Re: Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.  
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Heyvern69 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverswift:
Well, this thread certainly went in the wrong direction......


Well, let's see how much further off track it can go . . .

> Features taken from other games that would make OFP pt. 2 better, IMO.

Two words: Bullet Time.

Hahahahaha. NOT. :-)
Cool feature, but not appropriate for THIS game. Seriously though, I think about the only major missing feature would be a record/playback option that works in single and multiplayer.


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