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#661184 - 03/26/01 05:18 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Paul Morrison Offline
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I played the new ambush mission last night, and have come to be very impressed with the AT modelling.

My two AT guys, one with a law, one with a Carl Gustav both concealed and firing from behind at two t72's and a BMP, usually killed the t72's in two hits or less. On occaison a single, non-kill would disable the tank and the crew would hop out.

Hits on trucks are very fatal (I saved my LAW rockets for the trucks). BMPs are a one hit kill almost without exception (yes, I have seen exceptions) and near misses can also kill, but rarely.

Altogether I was pretty impressed. BTW:, best strategy for the new mission appeared to be to position your infantry out of sight of the road, AT teams spread out on the ridge under cover. Wait until the tanks go by, then hit the front one with both AT teams, then hit the rear as he tries to bring his gun to bear. You can personally see to the BMP. The trucks you can also deal with.


The word "Martyr" is just a fancy name for "crappy fighter".
#661185 - 03/26/01 10:12 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Zero G Offline
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Well I like this mission quite a bit.. I found the best way to do things is to leave all my troops that have no AT weapons behind and take the other teams up on to the big hill. I target the tanks with my AT teams but have them on hold. I wait until the tanks are out of my LOS and hit the first truck with the LAW, I then tell the AT teams to engauge while I take out the BMP and last truck. This kills all of that stuff and keeps my team intact.

------------------
Don't think of it as being outnumbered,think of it as having a wide target selection.
Z
Combat Helo
zerog@simhq.com


Z
#661186 - 03/26/01 11:16 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  

**DONOTDELETE**
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I got a question about these new missions being made. Everytime I try to load I get an error saying that the mission can't be load, what am I doing wrong here???

Any help would be appriciated.

Thanks!

#661187 - 03/27/01 12:26 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Just hit ENTER when you try to start the mission and you will get in (I think you get the same if you hit ESC).

I was getting the same thing but then I just hit ENTER and the mission started.

RB

#661188 - 03/27/01 05:31 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback:
I'm just trying to figure out how come you know so much more than other men who have actually been there


Razor, try actually using a bit of common sense and not attack someone based of something they never even claimed, okay?

I've never claimed to be in the military (I havn't), and I've never claimed to know more than people that have been there (I'm pretty sure I don't), and I'd think you could use a bit of common sense to not criticize someone for doing something that they did not do. I do, however, know enough to listen to what they say, and I don't think any real-world tanker would agree that a T72BV just about always takes two RPGs to the rear to kill. If you doubt that, you can ask someone who WOULD know, like Volcano or Snake. I'm sure they'd be glad to inform you.

------------------
Phoenix, lava dragon
"Drive defensively -- buy a tank."

#661189 - 03/27/01 06:21 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Pygmy - SimHQ Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
...I don't think any real-world tanker would agree that a T72BV just about always takes two RPGs to the rear to kill. If you doubt that, you can ask someone who WOULD know, like Volcano or Snake. I'm sure they'd be glad to inform you.


Never said just about always - you read that into my statements. The truth about any HEAT round is that its effectiveness is based on armor composition, obliquity angle of the warhead vs. armor slope, and other barriers on the tank to cause the rocket to detonate early.

Just because an RPG7 is rated to penetrate from under 300cm to 600cm (depending on type)of armor, and the rear armor of a T72 is definitely much less (cannot find a reference to it now, but we'll agree that even an early RPG7 has enough potential to tear through the rear of a T72), doesn't mean the numbers tell the entire story.

To get the effective numbers, you need to factor in these other variables to see what will happen. You are correct that it's likely to damage the vehicle, and that the rear is the most vulnerable spot for a rocket attack, but you shouldn't assume that even the majority of times a rocket hit in the rear of any tank will produce a kill. Most RPG's are easy to defeat with the simple use of chicken wire to cause the rocket to explode several inches away from the tank, effectively scorching the armor. A 2nd shot to the same area would at least hit armor, with a possibility for a kill or mobility kill. Study the offensive tactics used by the Mujihadeen and the defensive tactics used by the Sovs during the war in Afganistan to see what I mean.

Considering I was an infantry squad leader, I might know a bit of what I'm talking about. The biggest thing I'll say about it was as a grunt, we never really wanted to dick with tanks anyway - the rockets were for the APVs and IFVs, and fortified positions. Leave the big targets for the big guns

Pete

#661190 - 03/27/01 06:38 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Paul Morrison Offline
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I found the best tactic in that mission was to hide my team up the up, out under cover of trees and the ridgeline, with my AT teams placed with one up high and from behind (invisible from the front because of the ridge), and one to the right, behind the treeline. Then, plant the mines on the road where the kill zone will be. Let the t72's running in front hit the mines (bye bye T72), you'll get one for sure, maybe two from the mines. Then, group both AT teams at the remaining BMP or BMP and T72 (use both at the t72 if it still is around, because its the most dangerous, and you can kill the BMP yourself), then target the trucks. Even if the men are disembarking from the trucks a LAW rocket will kill most of them from the explosion.

But the mines and position of the AT teams is the key.


The word "Martyr" is just a fancy name for "crappy fighter".
#661191 - 03/27/01 08:38 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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zAmboni Offline
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one of the things I wish i could be able to do (or maybe I am missing it) is to be able to assign targets without them engaging. I tell the troops to go weapon hold and then assign targets to the troops when they come across the hill...but there is always one firing off their weapons before I want them to.

Also, it seems that it is way easier playing AmbushII as the Soviets than the US.

LightStorm demo is a bit frustrating because I will pick most of the guys off, but there is usually one or two that run, and I can never find them. I *hate* missions that force you to kill each and every enemy for it to be a success :P

#661192 - 03/27/01 08:57 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Ok.. I'm going to try and use common sense...

Phoenix, you often throw around stats and ideas about things military and then make statements about realism factors etc.. I just figured that you must be an expert, or former military to have such confidence in your opinion. Same goes for Mekh.

I am really impressed with your knowledge and experience with all things military and I wish I had the same confidence in my knowledge to discuss realism with former and current military. I'm not just talking about this discussion but the many in which you have offered your opinion.

Now that's just common sense on my part, I'm sure your common sense is much better than mine, but then I am just a humble bloke with very little knowledge of anything to offer the sim community.

RB

#661193 - 03/27/01 09:34 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pygmy - SimHQ:
Never said just about always - you read that into my statements.


Never said you did. The "just about always" comment was regarding my observations in-game. I've only seen a T72 take two hits and not be destroyed on two occasions, both of which were while I was crewing it.

Also, there clearly were't any special circumstances to the hit, such as ERA, obstructions (Like that chicken wire), or glancing hits. They were square-on, center, rear hits.

And Razor, can it with the sarcasm and personal attacks. The only things I "claim" to know are the ones that I either do know, from experience, or that I have gathered enough information to have a very strong reason to believe, such as from people who actually do the stuff (Like in this case). In this case, I'd take the information I've gathered from -several- real-world tankers over your opinion, especially since you don't seem to be presenting either experience or information.

------------------
Phoenix, lava dragon
"Drive defensively -- buy a tank."

#661194 - 03/27/01 04:44 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Razorback Offline
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NJ
Who is being sarcastic? I admire you greatly. Your knowledge is superior to my own.

You are my GOD!

RB

#661195 - 03/27/01 04:53 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Paul Morrison Offline
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Zamboni,

Issue a hold fire order, then group the ones you want to attack the target, wait until the target is ready to attack and then issue the target command. Both will attack simultaneously.

ambush II is way easier as the US, if you do it right.


The word "Martyr" is just a fancy name for "crappy fighter".
#661196 - 03/27/01 05:05 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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NJ
The way I wiped out the Ruskies was by putting my entire squad on the top of the big hill and placing msyelf on the lower crest directly facing the convoy.

When my squad attacked it took out one T-72, I then took out another. I then took out a BMP and a truck. The rest is a blur but I know the entire thing took 21 minutes. I came about 2 inches from getting killed at least a half-dozen times and I killed 2 MG's who had stopped to shoot at my peeps.. and made the mistake of doing so 5 feet from my position.

This fargin game is intense!

RB

#661197 - 03/27/01 06:53 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Pygmy - SimHQ Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Never said you did. The "just about always" comment was regarding my observations in-game. I've only seen a T72 take two hits and not be destroyed on two occasions, both of which were while I was crewing it.



Gotcha! Makes sense to me.

Pete

#661198 - 03/27/01 09:40 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Paul Morrison Offline
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If you plant the mines, then use your AT teams and yourself to blow up what's left it won't get too intense.

IF you hit the trucks before the troops can get clear they die when the LAW hits it.


The word "Martyr" is just a fancy name for "crappy fighter".
#661199 - 03/29/01 01:08 AM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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zAmboni Offline
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There were a couple of cool things I noticed, and a couple of things that are needed to be worked on from the demo. First off, I like the injury effects in the demo. Last night playing, i was shot in both legs. I tried to get up but I couldnt...I would end up back in the prone position.

Some of the problems....I called the medic when I was down and couldnt get up, but the medic didnt come. I was just left there on the field. On another run of the mission, i was injured and called out for medic, and leader told me to go to the medic. (it is hard to go to the medic IF you are incapacitated like before though). Medic fixed me up quite good when i got to him though.

Another problem...I had the machine gun, and went over to a dead soldier and picked up his RPG. I didnt have a rifle with me so it went directly to the RPG in hand. Problem is that when holding the RPG you are on a knee, and i couldnt move or get up. There as no option to put the RPG on my back so i could get up. I had to pick up the AK that was also with the dead soldier and then switch to AK, and now I was able to move.

Another nitpick is if you have both grenade and smoke grenade, you cannot select the smoke without either dropping or throwing the regular grenades.

But hey it is only a demo

-zB

#661200 - 03/29/01 04:28 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Paul Morrison Offline
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If you are hit in the legs and need to get to a medic, you can crawl. To move faster when crawling, use the 'move faster' key.


The word "Martyr" is just a fancy name for "crappy fighter".
#661201 - 03/29/01 04:43 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Razorback Offline
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But then you start breathing heavy and eventually it sounds like you are going to have a heart-attack.

RB

#661202 - 03/31/01 08:17 PM Re: OPERATION FLASHPOINT DEMO OUT  
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Robbster Offline
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It's better to have the medic come to you, rather than crawling to the medic.

Just select the medic's number key, then give him the move command to a location beside you, then select 'heal at medic' from the menu.

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