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#658913 - 07/13/02 07:46 AM Who else here loves to fly the P38?  
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Am I the only P38 junkie out there? Try it in combat some time, it's a great mid altitude fighter.

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#658914 - 07/13/02 10:15 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  
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I guess I am

#658915 - 07/13/02 11:33 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  
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P-38 is a fine aircraft for ground attack but i wouldn't want to be in one in a dogfight with FW-190's

#658916 - 07/13/02 11:36 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  
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Tsk, tsk.... :P Shouldn't be dogfighting FW's with a P38. High altitude attacks are the way to go in this bird.

Here's an interesting series of posts I found- I don't expect anyone to read the entire thing but it does provide some nice info on P38's and P40's
http://yarchive.net/mil/p38.html

#658917 - 07/13/02 11:45 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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Wraith likes it too.

#658918 - 07/14/02 01:27 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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Very interesting read. I got about halfway through. I have bookmarked it for reading at a later date.
I noticed in the articles that the times usually mentioned were 44/45. A couple of questions I have are:
A) Werent the majority of the truly skilled German pilots were either dead/out of action or serving on the Eastern front?
C) German aircrew exhaustion was a huge factor wasnt it ?

The same more or less holds true for the Japanese. They really lost the cream of their aircrews by 44/45.

Yes? No ? I am sniffing av fuel ?

I am not coming down on one side or the other, I am just asking some questions here. I like the P-38, then again, I like em all.


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"You are what you do when it counts" - Masao

[This message has been edited by Lanc104 (edited 07-13-2002).]

#658919 - 07/14/02 04:24 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  
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Some of it is 44/45, but in 1943 when they were using earlier models (without dive flaps) the P38's still performed excellently at their bomber escort role (ETO). The only problem was compressability, which happened fairly quickly as you can read. The germans picked up on it and exploited it- but still the P38 was an excellent aircraft for both escort and ground attack roles, in the hands of a good pilot. Besides, when a german dives to escape a P38, he's no longer a threat. Job accomplished.

I think the main reason the Japanese couldn't deal with the 38, was because of the boom and zoom and high altitude tactics that were used. Zero's just can't compete at 15,000 feet where the P38 performs exceptionally. The only real contender was the N1k Shiden and N1K2 Shiden Kai, but most of those ended up as flying bombs.

#658920 - 07/14/02 12:49 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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A few pertinent quotes regarding dogfighting in or against P-38s:

"I thought, Gotta get this fight in the trees. Down there, the single-engine 109s couldn't turn tightly for fear of a high-speed stall, but our counter-rotating engines produced no snap roll in a turning stall."

"I yanked into a climbing turn and was about to line up when he stalled in his tight turn and snapped. He recovered just before he hit the brush. The 109 headed north for home, black smoke pouring from the engine as the pilot gave that V-12 all she would take. He'd had enough. Next time he'd know that a P-38 with combat flaps could turn inside him any day."

--1st Lt. Gerry Rounds, 97th FS, 82nd FG, in "Aces Against Germany," Eric Hammel, 1993. Presidio Press. California.

"Our opinion of this twin-boomed, twin-engined aircraft was divided. Our old Messerschmitts were, perhaps, a little faster. But pilots who had fought them said that the Lightnings were capable of appreciably tighter turns and that they would be on your tail before you knew what was happening."

--Johannes Steinhoff, "Messerschmitts over Sicily." 1987. The Nautical and Aviation Publishing Co. of America, Inc. Baltimore.

"The flying characteristics of the P-38 were superb. It was gentle as a lamb, gave plenty of notice of a stall, and could turn with any fighter except the Spitfire and the Zero."

--Capt. Tom Maloney, 27th FS, 1st FG, in "Aces In Combat: Vol. V, The American Aces Speak," by Eric Hammel.

"My first kill was a Betty bomber on my 3rd mission while in a P-38H model. The 2nd was an Oscar while I was flying in a J model. I was particularly proud of this one 'cause I was able to stay inside this maneuverable little rascal's left turn for 360 degrees while doing about 90MPH, and at less than 1000' above the water. That P-38J was bucking and shuddering all the way around in what was nothing more nor less than a controlled stall."

--Capt. John Tilley, 431st FS, 475th FG, in http://www.kilroywashere.org/03-Harm-Tilley-story.html

#658921 - 07/14/02 01:33 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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I like flying the 38 with Target's FMs, the default is a dog in my opinion.

I don't have any trouble dogfighting down low in it maybe it is my style. There are some tricks to it but I can match a Spit or a 190 witout problems. The only draw back to the 38 in my opinion is it is such a big target.

#658922 - 07/14/02 03:45 PM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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Ever read "Fork-Tailed Devil" by Caidin ?
I have a copy havent picked it up in a while now. I am not sure about Caidin as a historicaly accurate commentator but I think what Mr. Arthur W. Heiden a P-38 pilot and instructor wrote about the aircraft is more something to go by. He mentions poor twin engine training, the runaway prop problems etc etc, but he also mentions how much of an improvement the L model was. The 38 had her problems, and it took a while to work them out, but it all seemed to come together in the L model from what he states.
Now, the 38 in this sim doesnt have any of the issues mentioned above but it would be great to fly a 38 with the dive flaps on her.. I would REALLY love to see the L model in this sim. That would be something.



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"You are what you do when it counts" - Masao

#658923 - 07/15/02 05:14 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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Lanc104,

I couldn't put the dive flaps into the sim, but the P-38J-25 (FM Pack 5.0 1945) has a maximum dive speed about 20 mph or so greater than the P-38J-10 (FM Pack 5.0 1944). It should also handle a lot better near its limiting speed--its ailerons don't stiffen up, courtesy of hydraulic boost.

#658924 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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Ack.

Please excuse the mess of posts below--my browser had a minor fit and sent the same post about 10 times before I figured out what was going on.

[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658925 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658926 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658927 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658928 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658929 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658930 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]

#658931 - 07/15/02 05:15 AM Re: Who else here loves to fly the P38?  

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[This message has been edited by Target (edited 07-15-2002).]


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