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#562959 - 06/24/02 01:57 AM What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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ricnunes Offline
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Well, I'am a great fan of Hard Core simulator (my favorites are Janes F/A-18 and Falcon4) and it was with great expectation that I was expecting to see Eurofighter Typhoon and guess what?? It was the greatest disapointment in fight simulators since Comanche4!! In the subject I put quotes (") in simulator because a game like Eurofighter Typhoon hardly deserves the name SIMULATOR!!
Next I will describe why is this my opinion:
- Fist, one of the things that I like most in a fight simulator is the avionics. The avionics are far more less realist than EF2000. First there are no missile cameras or FLIR cameras, all this "functions" are displayed in the onboard IRST, and this of course is not realistic. At least EF2000 had a weapon camera (for Maverick that is not available in Eurofighter Typhoon, another fault!)!! An another avonics thing is that a radar (and real Typhoon radar is no exception) as several modes (for example, air-air TWS, air-air RWS, air-to-ground MAP, air-to-ground GMT, air-to-ground SEA modes, and this modes exists in real ECR-90 radar) and in the game there is only one radar mode that does all the thing!!! Totally not realistic!!!
Next cames the flight model that it is also not realistic, and as an example have you ever noticed how fast the aircraft accelerates?? When you takeoff and retract the landing gear the aircraft already goes at aprox. 400 Knots. Even with afterburner and tottaly clean that is another thing impossible!!
Another thing is the behaviour of the Air-to-Air missiles, they miss completely their target most of the time!! And they are the lastest Air-to-Air missiles (Meteor and ASRAAM). Imagine if they were older missiles!!?
There is also a less important fault, that concerns to other friendly aircraft. Where are, for example the F16, F18 and since the action takes place in 2015, where is the JSF?? It's possible that this late aircraft will be purchased by many NATO countries!! And of course, what are doing Sweden Grippens and Viggens in a NATO War, they aren't supposed to be NEUTRAL??
The only good thing in this "SIMULATOR" appears to be campaign and even this managed to disapoint me, because of that SUPER-MEGA-ULTRA-SECRET-MISSILE-PROF-FINAL-NUCLEAR-BOMBER-WITH-DRONES that appears in the end of the campaign!!! COME ON, that kind of bomber will never have sucess and probably will never be built!! The Germans tried that in WWI and WWII with Zepplins carring fighters and never was used in combat!!!
What the hell did rage do with the sucessor of EF2000??? EF2000 could not be one of the best sims ever but for the time it was made it was pretty good!!!

This was my way of release myself from the frustration that I had when I saw a game!! Well it appears that I will have to wait more time until a new Jet Simulator (modern jets) gets out to market!! The only good thing is that I didn't bought this game, I have a copy (but don't tell anyone !!!).

By the way, does anyone knows how I get my "letter" to the ones responsible for this "SIMULATOR"?

By the meantime I will continue to play my Jane's F/A-18 and Falcon4.

Thanks for "listen" me...

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#562960 - 06/24/02 05:14 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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Uroboros Offline
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This must be your first time here cause if you'd been here before, you would not have picked up Typhoon with the hope that it would be a hardcore sim.

Typhoon has never been and never will be a hardcore sim. Nor was it EVER advertised as such. Sorry

#562961 - 06/24/02 08:32 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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otto2 Offline
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I can understand your desperation, but as you ve read before, typhoon never was advertised as a "hardcore" sim. If you want such a hardcore sim, buy falcon 4 and use the SP3 patches, or buy TAW.

#562962 - 06/24/02 10:09 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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valleyboy Offline
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Here we go again
HAVE YOU FLOWN A TYPHOON????
then i dont think you are qualified to say if the flight model is unrealistic.....
e.g. I am taking it that the upgraded EJ2x0 are used, thus giving a total thrust of 240KN, or somewhere aroung 52,000 lbs of thrust. Typhoons max takeoff weight is 50,700 lbs. do the maths. Thrust to weight ratio in EXCESS of 1:1 while FULLY LOADED.
while in a basic A2A config, Typhoon weighs in around 30,000 lbs, so a thrust to weight ratio of 1.7:1 which is A LOT OF SPARE THRUST to play with! currently with the normal EJ200's it takes 7 seconds from brake release to gear fully up to take off.... so thats with a TTW ratio of 1.2:1.... so with a TTW ratio of 1.7:1 i think this number will drastically decrease!

But as said by others.... NO WHERE ON THE BOX OR IN ADVERTS does it advertise this as a hardcore sim...... and to add a bit, the Typhoon doesn't use mavericks.... and CAPTOR is capable of ground and air mapping simultaniously....... so it CAN display ground and air targets on the scope at the same time.


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#562963 - 06/24/02 01:32 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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ricnunes Offline
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To valleyboy:

First of all the Eurofighter Typhoon doesn't have a trust of 50,700Lb as you say but have a trust of about 40,000Lb (each engine produces a trust of 20000Lb, see http://www.eurofighter.com ).
Ok that The Eurofighter Typhoon as an excelent High trust ratio, and so SU27 and the F15 also as excelent trust ratio.
For example the F15 as a trust of 50,000 (25,000 each) a normal takeoff weight (with 4 Sparrows) of 41,500 lb giving the F15 a trust to weight ratio of 1,2 when the Eurofighter is about 1,3 (using Real 40000 trust!!). And the F15 doesn't have a speed of 400 Knots when it takeoff, you can see that by playing the Jane's F15 (if you ever play it!!). That is a much more REAL SIMULATOR that Eurofighter Typhoon. Eurofighter Typhoon near Jane's F15 is an arcade game!! Despite I never flew one of this fighter jets I like military aviation and I read much about this.
And I can say that an aircraft that flies at 400 Knots with the gear down the most possible thing to happen is that the landing gear becames heavily damaged!!! That is one prof that Eurofighter Typhoon flight model sucks!!
Another thing the Captor isn't capable of doing Air and Ground mapping simultaneously because the Captor isn't an active electronically scanned array radar and only this kind or radars have that capability!! So a guess you are wrong about the Captor Radar!!
About the Mavericks, possibly the Eurofighter will be capable of carring those but I don't know if the UK or another country that will deploy the Eurofighter will use this missile.

One last thing, yes it was the first time that I came to Eurofighter Typhoon Message Boards!! I usually go to Jane's F/A-18, Jane's F15 or Falcon4 Message Boards!! The most real simulators available for PC!! Well it is yet to born a PC simulator better than those!!
And when I posted this Message I was only giving away my frustration of seeing this Simulator!!

Thanks for "listening" me...

#562964 - 06/24/02 02:05 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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Great he rips it to shreds and he hasn't even bought it!

I have no time for pirates like you! YOU that haven't got **NO** place here and deserve nothing more than to be banned.

By all means pass constructive criticism,*IF* you bought it, but you *didn't*.

So that puts you in no position to mouth off!

It's prats like you that push up bloody costs.

"This car is CRAP" said ricnunes after he just stole it......get the picture?


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#562965 - 06/24/02 02:57 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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ricnunes Offline
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To Tracer[formerly of CS]:

I was thinking in buying Eurofighter Typhoon but in the meanwhile someone got me a copy of it!! If someone offers you a copy of a game that you wanted and you didn't got that game yet you would say no!!?? Yeah right, if you did that than I would be Donald Duck!! That's for sure!!
I usually buy games but in this case I got a copy first and I'm happy that it was the case in this game because I did'nt spend money in such a lousy "Simulator"!!!

By the way, I am thinking in getting rid of this copy, are you interested?

#562966 - 06/24/02 04:21 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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valleyboy Offline
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Sheeesh, you didn't get it did you....... the GAME is based in 2015..... which means TRANCHE 3 Eurofighters are likely to be used......... Tranche 3 aircraft are VERY likely to have UPGRADED ENGINES of around the 120KN class each... so thats 240KN total thrust! Which validates the above information given. Thus a total thrust of 52,000 lbs, for an air combat weight of 30,000 lbs would give a TTW ratio of around 1.7:1
AND I suggest you do some research on Typhoon..... my INFORMATION sources say it is capable of GROUND AND AIR MAPPING at the same time, and it isn't just AESA radars that can do this, as CAPTOR has such a high scan rate for a doppler radar, this feature has been implemented!!!!!!!!! Any way, by 2015 CAPTOR will be suplemented by AMSAR technology, which would make it an AESA radar.

So you want to talk hardcore sims????
JANES F-15 is based on the E model...... which DOES NOT have a high thrust to weight ratio AT ALL. So your above information is INVALID. It has extra drag, and a sh!t load of extra weight to carry while empty. and the Strike Eagles it was based on did not have the new P&W 229, but the older models, which gave it a crappy performance.
I suggest you look up this information, as you are living in a dream world at the moment.
I have been buying hardcore sims since 1990..... the list is too big to fit on here, so I think I know what a "sim" is

some include Strike Eagle series, Mig 29, EF2000, Longbow & longbow 2, JF-15, JF-15, JF-18, Flanker 2.5, Falcon 4, IL-2, EEAH, EECH, CFS1 & 2, BoB, and EF Typhoon.
So don't talk to me about "hardcore"

And if you look up some posts, some numbers were taken from the game and compared to real life numbers...... these again, were compared to the probable performance of the upgraded Typhoons, and the data was roughly the same, again, I am talking about the enhanced EJ2x0 series engine, and NOT the current EJ200 fitted to Tranche 1 Eurofighters. Such times were, brake release to gear up, acceleration from 200kts, to Mach 1.

Again, I suggest you look up CURRENT and FUTURE information regarding the Typhoon, as what was in the EF2000 manual has changed slightly since 1995

Also, half of the sims you claim are realistic, have major flaws in them..... they ALWAYS undermodel oposition aircraft. The MIG-29 IS superior to an F-16 in a dogfight, as the SU-27 is SUPERIOR to the F-15 in dogfights, and some cases BVR but sadly, we never see this in a sim


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#562967 - 06/24/02 04:53 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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otto2 Offline
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@ Valleyboy:
go to http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de and you ll find some really great pictures of German Mig 29 and Swiss F/A 18 during some dogfights. I don t know how the english text is, just read the german one, but if you need more details, i ll ask one of the MIG 29 Pilots,where the Advantages of this jets are.

#562968 - 06/24/02 05:22 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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ricnunes Offline
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To valleyboy:

I really did some reserch about the things that I said, and I've reserched in Official pages (as the page that I give you before), Aircraft magazines (such as Airforces Monthly) and I'm not based in this simulator manual like you because if the game it isn't real enough so probably the manual it isn't also!! So I advise you to see Official and Real information about these military aircraft!!
I didn't find anything that says that the Captor Radar is capable of Air and Ground Maping at the same time, I've seen information that tells me otherwise, so perhaps you could tell me were did you get that information? I would be appreciated!!
Even if you are right about the aircraft engines you have to take in account other forces that work against an aircraft when it takeoff (such as Gravity and friction)!!
- And say to you once again and do not ignore this, how about the landing gear, if you are so informed about aircraft you should know that an aircraft landing gear suffers heavy damage at speeds of 400 Knots!!! So tell me about this?? If is this true every time that an Eurofighter takeoff the ground it damage the landing gear!! That's ridiculous!!
You have to see that one thing is the accelaration in the air from one speed to other (for example 200 Knots to Mach1) and other thing completely diferent is the acceleration in the ground of 0 Knots to 400 Knots, that tottaly different!!

Other thing is that comparative or Mig29 Vs F16 and I say you are wrong. There was an article in Airforces Monthly (i don't recall the month and it was 1 or 2 years ago) that was Mig29 Vs F/A-18 that avaliated that F/A-18 was more agile in dogfight giving it an edge over Mig29 in dogfight! As you probably now F-16 is more agile that F/A-18 therefore is better that Mig29 in dogfight!! The only edge of the Russian Plane is that is equiped with an Helmet Cueing System giving the Mig29 a slight advantage in dogfights!! As you a person who likes future implementations must already now that both American airplanes are beeing equiped with similar (superior) systems (The JCHS)!! So the F16 (and F/A-18) are superior in dogfight to Mig29!!
Even in terms of BVR combat the only Russian planes that are comparable to is Western Similares are the Mig31 and Su35. The others (including SU27) have to rely mostly in AWACs or Ground Control for airborne interception because their radar (even having great ranges) aren't so advance as western aircraft as!! The same happens with BVR air-to-air missiles, the western AMRAAM is far more superior than AA10 (see Airforces Monthly article about Eritrea/Ethiopia conflict!!) and probably than AA12. Talking about Air-to-Air missiles the performance of the Meteor and ASRAAM is pathetic is Eurofighter Typhoon!!

About the AI enemies (not) using the BVR combat in the simulators I mencioned, Did you ever played Jane's F/A-18?? Probably not because in this game they usually fire fist in BVR (if they have the opportunity) and they use medium range Air-Air infrared missiles, something not seen in many simulators including Eurofighter Typhoon!!

I didn't say that The simulators I mencioned are perfect, but they are the most close to real that exists, even in terms of Flight Model.

#562969 - 06/24/02 06:38 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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valleyboy Offline
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Sorry if I sound a bit p!ssed off......I had little sleep last night. Too warm for my liking.

But I shall get the information for you
I get my information from official pages, http://www.eurofighter.com
and the most helpful,
http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.net


"Even though CAPTOR features a mechanically steered array, BAE Systems have indicated that the low inertia non-counterbalanced antenna coupled with four high torque, high precision samarium-cobalt drive motors allows extremely high scanning speeds. As a consequence of this the radar can interleave different operations such as air and ground mapping. This is quite an achievement for a non-phased array system."

note, interleave means it scans air to air one scan, air to ground the next. Thus giving simultanious scanning of air and ground mapping possible This is from the starstreak site.


As for the Mig 29...... it is better than an F-16 in a dogfight, one of the pages on this site has a turn rate chart for the Mig 29 against an F-16, the only hope an F-16 has against the Mig is to get low, but still the Mig has a slight advantage in turn rate down low. But at medium and high altitudes, the F-16 is dogmeat, the Mig holds all the advantages at all speeds.
Yes, the F/A-18's will get HMS systems, but the Russians still have an advantage there.... its called AA-11 Archer, and packs a hell of a punch for a dogfighting missile plus before you say the AIM-9X is about to be introduced... the AA-11 has been THE dogfighting missile over the last 20 years. So the -9X is well overdue! And I still regard a Mig a very dangerous oposition in WVR combat, as it has been underated by the go F-16ers for so long, that people actualy beleive the hype.

As far as F-16 against F-18 goes, the -18 is supposedly better, as the -18 has MUCH better handling at high AoA, it can use this if the fight gets slow and low to get in behind its target. The F-16 isnt as good a dogfighter as people would like you to think...... just try going against a Mig-29 guns only in Falcon 4 SP3, against ace oposition..... you REALLY have to work to get that kill, if you are lucky, but you get too low on fuel to make much of a fight.

I use to play JF-18 online years ago when combat.net was still up and running..... and i still think the Russian aircraft are undermodelled there. The Russians have some very capable weapons, but most sims give the advantage to allied aircraft. Take a look at the weapons available in Flanker 2.5... there are weapons of AMRAAM range that are IR guided, datalinked radar missiles to AWACS aircraft.... stuff that US weapons are only now catching up to. Though US weapons still have a higher PK, the Russian numerical advantage would make mince meat of anyone trying to take them on.

And as far as EF Typhoon goes.... yes the weapons do suck. BUT, Andy Bush has said along the lines, that the simulation community is misguided in its thoughts that OUR weapons are superior and always kill..... the truth is... if you can spoof his missiles... he can sure as hell spoof yours.



[This message has been edited by valleyboy (edited 06-24-2002).]


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#562970 - 06/24/02 07:06 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  

**DONOTDELETE**
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@valleyboy,
I must give ricu (sorry forgot the rest of the name) right. The real Typhoon could hardly be able to to accelerate in the vertical area as fast as in the horizontal. Climbing from zero to 20000 ft in 37 seconds or in one minute to 40000 ft is also unrealistic. Also the real Typhoon can reach Mach 2 not only Mach 1,83 but flys not Mach 1,37 at sea level.
In that way the FM in the game is unrealistic.

#562971 - 06/24/02 07:21 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  

**DONOTDELETE**
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About the topic F-16 VS MiG-29:
first you guys never mention which versions fight against each other. But I take the MiG-29 (9.12) against the F-16C.

performance MiG-29/F-16:
Speed (Mach): 2,3/2,05
Ceilling: 17000m/15240m
climb rate: 330m/sec/254m/sec
AoA: 26 (max. 30)/25
substained turnrate (deg/sec): 22,8/21,7

only some examples, that shows, that the Fulcrum have the better performance. In combination with HMS and R-73 the MiG-29 is the better dogfighter.

In BVR-combat don't forget that the older F-16 had no capabilitys!!! Only the newer F-16C/D are BVR-capable. The newer MiG-29 (SMT-2/M...) have also good BVR capabilitys. I would mean better than the F-16.

#562972 - 06/24/02 07:58 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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Tophat Offline
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*sigh*

This game was never advertised as being hardcore. When the performance of the weapons and the plane itself were questioned when the game was released Steve Hunt said that performance had been altered to better the gameplay. This was when he still made regular visits here, before some people made him feel unwelcome.

But I think this has gone far enough now. ricnunes: if you bought this game thinking it was a hardcore sim I can see how you would be very disappointed with it.

I'm trying to be the voice of reason here. I know there are lots of inaccuracies in this game, and I don't know how many (if any) have been resolved in the new add-on. I doubt any will have been as realism has never been a key issue for Typhoon. Playability is the key here. Do you think a newcomer to sims wants to memorise an entire keycard just to get off the ground? I enjoy the full realism of F4 as much as anyone here, but at times I just want to get in a plane and not worry about stalling during a turning dogfight, or remember the exact procedure for getting out of a deep stall.

I don't want this to turn into a Realism Vs Playability post, so i'll just say this: A number of decisions were made at the design stages of Typhoon that have made it into the game it is today. A lot of people don't like the outcome of those decisions, but a lot do. (Except maybe the "end-of-level-boss" thing, I've not seen many people that enjoyed that experience).

So, in closing: realism has been sacrificed in order to boost playability. That's a fact stated by the developers. If you don't like it then, well - maybe this game's not for you. One game can never live up to everyone's expectations. And remember, it is a *game*. If you want full and complete realism, join your country's air force and do it for real.

Right, sermon over - think i'll go play a game now
Tophat

#562973 - 06/24/02 09:21 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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Hitman IF Offline
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Sheesh. Somebody has far too much spare time.

I'd love to add something intelligent but sadly I don't have time to even read it all, let alone reply!

------------------
---SVBS squad is playing Typhoon and ADF/TAW now at http://www.svbs.co.uk !---


---SVBS squad is playing Lock On, ADF/TAW and Typhoon now at http://www.svbs.co.uk !---
#562974 - 06/25/02 12:09 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  

**DONOTDELETE**
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it's kinda funny, ppl. here insisting this sim is kinda realistic or wat they call it semi-realistic ha..ha..ha... i don't know, the more i fly dis sim the more i feel it's kinda made by NOVALOGIC or let's just say it's really an arcade game wats the difference w/da Novalogic's Commanche 4? da way da Novalogic guys implement der avionics in der sim is really quite similar to RAGE's Typhoon.....the bottomline here RAGE's Typhoon is really for kids stuff..makes u smile ppl. here... playing dis sim are over 18 and dat includes me!

#562975 - 06/25/02 03:16 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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ricnunes Offline
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Hi valleyboy.

It's nice having this discusion with you! And I have more things to say to your last comment!!
First, the Russian BVR Air-to-Air missiles are far more inferior than the Americans (AMRAAM or even the lastest Sparrow versions)!! If you read the article that I have in my hand (Airforces Monthly - July 2000) in the article about Eritrea/Ethiopia conflict you would see that the Russian AA-10 Alamo (one of the best missiles of Russian arsenals) did have a similar performance of the AIM-7 Sparrow versions of the Vietnam War!!! That's what I can call, very lousy!!! So I didn't believe that AA-12 is a much better missile than AA-10 (several AA-12 were launched by Mig-29 in the Kosovo conflict with, of course no sucesseful results!!) So I can say that AMRAAM is a much better (precise) missile and more difficult to Jam!! Despite that reality the AA-10 IR guided missile is a very nasty missile in Jane's F/A-18 (I've got shot down some times by these *******s)!! And one more thing about Jane's F/A-18, is that F/A-18E Super Hornet (the plane in Jane's F/A-18) as the best Radar Defensive Contermesures installed in a fighter plane (mainly because the towed decoy, that is something marvelous!!)!! This Super Hornet IDECM is so good that it will be installed in the B-1 Lancer (a billion dollar strategic bomber!!). So it is more "easy" to deceive enemy missiles than for example in Falcon4 or Jane's F-15.
And don't get me wrong, but F/A-18 is better that Mig-29 (this one was in an Airforces Monthly as said before) in a dogfight because is more agile and will be equiped (not in 2015 but in 1 year, 2 years max.!!) with JCHM (helmet cueing system, more advanced than the Russian one) and the AIM-9X (of course more advanced than AA-11 Archer).

I will not comment about the Captor capability about Mapping Air and Ground at the same time and I will supose that it will be correct, but there are somethings about that page that are not correct and one of this things is the comparative about Eurofighter and another fighters (the F/A-18 Super Hornet is not a downgraded version of F-18+, but otherwise!!) and of course this one is completely outdated (because the same comparative appears in EF2000, so it as some years old!!). You can see more realist Comparatives of F/A-18 Super Hornet (that include Eurofighter) and other planes in this site:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/aircraft/fa18/combat2.jpg

So the data in the second site (that you gave to me) is tottaly realiable?? Maybe or maybe not!! As far as I know the more realiable site (you gave to me) is http://www.eurofighter.com (the real official one) than in the other (of course I'm not saying that Captor is both Air and Ground Map capable!!)!!
Well but about the Air-to-Air missiles I'm almoust 100% sure!!!

If you think that is easy to deceive enemy missiles in Jane's F/A-18 than try to lose your towed decoy!! I'm sure that you will regret that!! And even if you don't it is harder to lose enemy missiles than in Eurofighter Typhoon!! So, one more score to Jane's F/A-18!!

Even so, I'am sad about Eurofighter Typhoon, it was only necessary to improve some things in EF2000!! I think that wouldn't be so hard!!

#562976 - 06/25/02 09:14 AM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
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valleyboy Offline
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Don't forget, that in real life Typhoon has a towed decoy drone, internal jamers, RWR receiver, laser warning receiver, a missile aproach warning system that covers both IR and Radar missiles and more importantly optical guided and laser guided missiles, and DASS that puts it all together so the pilot doesn't have to touch a button....... in that respect the Typhoon has the better self defence capability, IF full DASS is implemented, as you can mix and match the system to your requirements. Currently only the RAF are going for the full equipment fit.

And as far as some decoy systems that will be installed on US aircraft... take a look at the manufacturer..... it will say BAe Systems in a few cases! Especialy in the agile eye system that will be implemented.

As for Russian equipment... there are some arguments........ the Russians have export versions... which basicaly means downgraded. Unlike where the US would NOT sell AMRAAMS to people, Russia just gives them downgraded weapons. But as none of us are Russian weapon experts... (you need to go to Flankers forum to argue over them ) We can leave that one alone....

As far as the new F-18s are concerned... yes they are better than the Migs... but the Migs have had this technology for the best part of 20 years..... its about time that they caught up


as for the validaty of http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.net
they get their information from a number of sources... BAe Systems, DASA, and in some cases the test pilots them selves
I find it a much more informative site in regard to the technology side than the official page.


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#562977 - 06/25/02 01:08 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes Offline
Senior Member
ricnunes  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
Well, dont't forget one thing about the Typhoon's DASS in comparison with the Super Hornet's IDECM:
- The Typhoon will only carry the towed decoy externally. That means that at least one harpoint will not carry weapons if Typhoon's are to carry a towed decoy!! And in the case of Super Hornet the towed decoy is carried internally!
- The Super Hornet's IDECM will also be equip with an IR missile warning receiver.
- The IDECM is a modular system that means when new equipments are to be installed or to replace anothers this will be done very easily!!
- The IDECM as full Automatic mode so that the pilot will not be needed to do anything when the system works against an incoming missile threat (in exception of the evasive maneuvers, of course ).
- The Super Hornet as better "stealth" capabilities (reduced RCS) than Typhoon (see http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~carlo/archive/MILITARY/AA/fa-18ef-report.html ),
and this "stealth" capabilities will even get better in the Block 3 upgrade (due to 2007-2010).
- So because of this I can conclude that Super Hornet as a better self defence capability than Typhoon!!
- The only advantage of the Typhoon DASS over IDECM Super Hornet appears to be the Laser Warning Receiver (that is not available in SH IDECM), but even this isn't so necessary for a fast fighter aircraft like Super Hornet or the Typhoon (as you can imagine aiming a Laser on one fast fighter isn't such a easy task, even with FLIRs caged to a Radar System!!). The Laser Warning Receiver is more usefull for Helicopters or slow and low moving aircraft (such as A10 or SU25).

Finaly to conclude, the subject of the Russian downgraded exports:
- What you said about Russians only export downgraded versions was true during the cold war but it isn't true now!! The Russians have to compete will more advanced western weapons systems (including Air-to-Air missiles) so it is now often that Russian offers to possible export customers better equipment that it equips the Russian Armed Forces and that includes for example the Mig-29, that the export version it's now more capable than the Russians ones. And the AA missiles are not an exception (the exports are not more advanced than Russian forces but equal to those!!).
As a prof of this, the Mig-29 or SU-27 (in many cases the SU-35) as been considered by many Air Forces around the world (including NATO or other western air forces) and is losing in most of the cases because the missiles it carries that are inferior to their western rivals.

#562978 - 06/25/02 03:31 PM Re: What a lousy "Simulator" !!!!!!!!  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
I have information that says otherwise about the IDECM system, The TRD on DASS does not take up any weapon hardpoints... actualy, I have information that the IDECM in full outfit takes up hardpoints. Also, IDECM has no MAW's, only a TRD, so IR guided missiles will only be detected I can guess by some IR system that tracks the heat signiture of the incoming missile.... only problem with this is that the missiles motor HAS to be burning for it to be tracked, DASS has no such fall back, there is a radar bubble that gives 360 degree coverage of ALL missiles, so it can take the apropriate measures to spoof it. All I can ascertain is that the TRD is also a form of IR decoy, as well as radar.
Also that link says absolutley nothing about the -18E RCS being lower...... actualy, it says nothing at all about RCS. And there is information that says that the Typhoons RCS is only bettered by the F-22.

Also, lasers are used by Russian IRST systems to range their targets.... and there are a number of SAM's that use lasers to range/guide their missiles.
In other places I have been, it has been said the F/A-18E's RCS is only smaller than the C/D models when no pylons are attached. Don't forget that the -18E is 35%-40% bigger than the C/D models.

plus the Super Hornet cant supercruise, and has been said that it cant go supersonic below 10,000 ft.... where as Typhoon will supercruise at around Mach 1.3 at sea level.

I would have given information, but i got disconnected, and my post got lost before I could post it So i had to re-write this....


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
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