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#562223 - 08/20/01 02:52 PM Will there be a Patch?  

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Just thought I'd ask again since it's been awhile.

Andy, Crash, anyone had contact with Steve? Should we just give up.

I know the folks from Rage took a lot of hits, but no word for months sure doesn't help.

oh well...

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#562224 - 08/20/01 07:07 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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I hope there's SOMETHING..and hopefully before the supposed add-on. I'v mostly postive onthe game, but it could really use a fix or two (or three ) before the add-on comes out.

#562225 - 08/20/01 09:24 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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One hit too many, I suppose. Ain't free speech great!

Andy

#562226 - 08/20/01 11:25 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Freedom's just another word for...oops wrong board.

Freedom without responsibility, respect, and courtesy can lead to folks writing whatever they choose to, then explaining it away by saying it's their right.
Then all of us suffer/deal with the consequences.

I don't mean to start up the flames/heat again. I just really wondered if anyone had heard something.

'nuff said.

TurtleHawk's out. Gone to blow some stuff up!!

#562227 - 08/21/01 11:39 AM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Andy,
Why in the world would you blame your visitors for the brakes being put on a EFT patch? Assuming there was really a plan for a patch in the first place.

Is Rage really that thin skinned that they didn't expect to see a select few complain about things. Software producers should know by now that 5% of the customers make 90% of the complaints.

Freedom of speech wasn't the direct cause of anything. The mighty dollar is the reason things get done or not.

#562228 - 08/21/01 11:57 AM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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Well if some people's vocal complaints about Typhoon is the reason there is no patch; then that action just validates those complaints even more.

If there isn't going to be a patch then Rage should just come out and say so and be done with it. (Typhoon wasn't their baby..so what do they care probably)

Heck I like the game; but I don't want to be sitting around waiting for support and a patch that's never going to come.

#562229 - 08/21/01 02:29 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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There are two issues here. Whether or not a patch is in the works...and why hasn't more been said about it on this forum.

I don't know squat about a patch one way or the other.

My remark was aimed at the second issue. I can't speak for Rage, Steve Hunt, or anyone else...but my bitch and whine meter got pegged long ago.

Andy

#562230 - 08/21/01 03:11 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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I totally second that Andy!



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[url]http://www.cmacg-wings-of-fury.com[url]

#562231 - 08/21/01 03:11 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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It looks like Rage isn't the only one with thin skin.

#562232 - 08/21/01 04:09 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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FWIW I don't reckon Rage are going to release a patch - maybe not even a carrier ops addon.

Andy posted a screenshot of the carrier ops addon ages ago - maybe he can tell you about it? (I'm guessing he was beta testing it).

I emailed that demo joystick util I did that seemed to have throttle working in DX8 to Steve H to have a look at almost a month ago - no reply.

Naturally he doesn't have to reply, and he probably is a little p*ssed off with me and some other people who were fairly vocal in this forum, but if you're in this business you have to accept critism and fix things - if there are problems. I'm not talking about the weapons issues and things people don't like, I'm talking about real bugs - throttle, wait between missions, planes flying through mountains etc.

More and more games developers are scrapping PC games and going for consoles? Why?

* You get it working on a Dreamcast and you know it will work on every other dreamcast in the world - no compatibility problems so less work
* You can't fix bugs after you've RTM, so you can wash your hands of it afterwards

Cheers,
Manteau

#562233 - 08/21/01 04:30 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Andy with all respect...we've been naughty boys so we won't get any info here? Oh please..

I can understand somebody exaggerated, but can you please post where we can find more info on the subject?

My poor Typhoon is all covered with spiderwebs

-.-

#562234 - 08/21/01 04:30 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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Manteau

I don't do beta testing...although Typhoon could have benefitted from a little more attention to this area.

Andy

#562235 - 08/21/01 04:47 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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-dot-

I don't know where more info can be found. Everything I know, you know.

As may have been obvious by now, Leon and I have exited stage left. We have two major disappointments...one, Rage came up short in the product support/communications area...and, two, the waters got muddied up here by a few who didn't seem to know when enough was enough.

Just to put things into a different perspective, if I could. Much of the appeal of air combat flight sims seems to come from those players who want to feel a sense of kinship with the "real thing". I completely endorse this. The sole reason I stay in this hobby is because of the many, super folks out there that want to share part of what I did.

But just for the record...the kind of pissing and moaning that you all have seen here would not last for a second in a real fighter squadron. So, for the vocal few that didn't know when to call it quits, while you may have had your day here on the Internet, had you been in my real world squadron, I would have thrown your sorry asses out on day one.

Many want "realism"...is that real enough?

Andy

#562236 - 08/21/01 05:35 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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I don't know where more info can be found. Everything I know, you know.

Copy that. Thanks, appreciated.

""Just to put things into a different perspective""

I got your point Andy but there's no need to take it as a personal matter.
I am not sure I am following you on one point , do you mean the discussion would have ended a lot sooner if you where the CAG of the squadron? I may be naive, but I thought that the whole spirit here was to find a way to improve Typhoon, giving RAGE ideas to work on, being a "public" forum you end up having people expressing their opinion in different ways.

On one point I totally agree with you "Rage came up short in the product support/communications area"...leaving you alone to take the heat I would add.


"Many want "realism"...is that real enough?"

Don't know do real pilots have so much to complain about their planes, weapons, wingmans, Missions, Tactics, Strategy ?

I hope (I'm sure) not !

-.-

#562237 - 08/21/01 06:04 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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-dot-

This isn't "personal" with me...call it something like "professional", if you want.

CAG...that's a Navy position!! But it would have been a great job!

Certainly, differences of opinions are allowed in the real life fighter community. And, when it comes to expressing them, in a mission briefing or debriefing, rank doesn't count...everyone gets their say.

BUT...there is a limit...and that limit is when people are seen as "whining" as compared to arguing a point. When a point is argued, a consensus is reached...or the most knowledgeable person weighs in...and there the matter is closed.

If the arguer wants to continue the issue...particularly if the issue is associated with him on a personal level...then that person runs the great risk of being labeled a "weak dick" or a "pussy".

Now, let me say I realize this is stern language, but I often hear folks wanting to know "how it is"...well, this is how it is. Picking up a label like that is tantamount to professional suicide in fighters. A guy can be the most incompetent A2A or A2G pilot in the squadron, but he'll be OK as long as he doesn't whine about it.

Am I being fair in holding forum posters to these standards...maybe, maybe not. But at least you know where I'm coming from.

Andy

#562238 - 08/21/01 06:26 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Uh-Oh....sorry! WHat's the equivalent of a CAG for USAF? Squadron Commander? ( forgive the ignorance)

"Am I being fair in holding forum posters to these standards...maybe, maybe not. But at least you know where I'm coming from.""

Great! LOL! Got your point!

I am also sure that you will agree in some of the complaints made about EFT like the one made by one of your squad best A/G pilot about Brimstone's targeting system.

-.-

OOOps I'm starting complaining again! LOL!!!! Ok forget about that Sir!
Let's go kick some Migs!



[This message has been edited by -Dot- (edited 08-21-2001).]

#562239 - 08/22/01 07:55 AM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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CAG (Commander Air Group, or something like that) is one step above Squadron Commander...he's the overall supervisor of flying squadrons on a carrier (as I understand it). The USAF equivalent would be a Colonel position called DO, Deputy for Operations.

I was the squadron equivalent, a squadron operations officer, a Lt Colonel position.

I thought most of the comments regarding weapon performance were unnecessary once the rationale for this performance was explained.
As I saw it, the gripe was made...the explanation was given...that should have been the end of the story. Further complaining proved nothing.

Andy

#562240 - 08/22/01 11:51 AM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
[BI thought most of the comments regarding weapon performance were unnecessary once the rationale for this performance was explained.
As I saw it, the gripe was made...the explanation was given...that should have been the end of the story. Further complaining proved nothing.[/B]


Fair enough Andy.

But I've got a friend that works in EB here in Dorset. He says the return rate Typhoon has had is unbelievable. When people were asked what was wrong with it, e.g. wouldn't work, graphics problems, etc, most of them replied "didn't like it" or "can't kill anything in it".

Now that's only one store, and I don't know the whole picture throughout the UK, but maybe a lot of people don't like it and maybe it would have been worth changing certain things?

Cheers,
Manteau

#562241 - 08/22/01 12:24 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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EFT/Rage shot itself in the foot by marketing the game as a "litesim" and the fact that anybody could pick it up and start shooting!
This is where the problem lies.
People *did* exactly that -pick it up and shoot, but they missed what they shot at!
Since this was aimed at a "mass" audience of people that had never played sims and those that had, the result was those that hadn't didn't want a lecture as to why their Brimstone had just gone underground!?
Or why their Meteors kept missing targets 9 out of 12 shots etc at *silly* ranges of 1 1/2 to 5 miles out!
The fun element was *lost* from that moment on.

Look at the fun factor in USAF -you could practicaly guarantee a missile hit *every* time or tone it down if you wanted it harder!

As for the "seasoned" simmers that played it EFT?
It was far too scripted and the poor ending totaly destroyed any want to replay it-it's almost as if they ran out of ideas as to how to end it?.. i mean an A/G rocket weapon being used to *try* and destroy a *future* 2015 nuclear bomber!! Sorry, the words "lost the plot" come screaming out at me..

Also by replaying it you quickly found out that the whole scenario repeated it's self,in the *same* places on the theatre map!) You could even "stalemate" the game by destroying the Russian landing craft and the game wouldn't advance!

Sorry, the "fans" were begging and willing to throw their money at Rage and Rage BLEW IT!

Nobody's fault but their **own**
Play Max Payne and you would think that Rage and Remedy were brother's!

Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

[This message has been edited by Tracer[formerly of CS] (edited 08-22-2001).]

#562242 - 08/22/01 01:01 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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OK..here comes the griping. Not again!

Though I will agree on one thing, the manual to the game should have given more information about weapon usage. Probably would stopped people from trying to use Meteors at targets 1 1/2 to 5 miles out. Come on Tracer..why you trying to use Meteors on targets that close anyway?!

As it turned out you had to learn weapon parameters on your own. Once you did, you could get Meteors to hit 75% of the time. (under the right conditions). But if you're going to stick complex (if not 100% accurate weapons) in a lite sim, you got to keep provide the player with the instruction manual.

#562243 - 08/22/01 01:02 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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I hope there's a patch, even if it is little late for my current save game. I hadn't noticed when I saved... but Villian's plane has left while he is still in the mission briefing. Who exactly has taken remains a mystery to me. Had it been an F-22, the autopilot could do the taxiing and takeoff (according to Total Air War anyway) but not here. I just hope whoever has got his plane brings it back soon... Villian is due to leave in less than 10mins
Screenshot and save game available http://randompages.delphicomp.com/pages/misc/eft.html

#562244 - 08/22/01 05:20 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uroboros:
OK..here comes the griping. Not again!
Nah,just an "open" opinion after several months of pondering why Rage made such a cock-up


Come on Tracer..why you trying to use Meteors on targets that close anyway?!
Lol, i have had medium range Meteors going straight out at an enemy plane less than a mile away, for it to go vertical and hit the enemy plane above my canopy as i have gone past it!
Seriously though i have launched BVR at about 20miles head-on,rear-on and at Mach1+ above the enemy, below the enemy it still makes no difference. It always appears a "hit-or-miss" affair. *Only* with ASRAAMs under 1mile do i get regular kills

As it turned out you had to learn weapon parameters on your own.

That's *no good* for the ordinary player in the street then isn't it? Since it was predominantly aimed at them..for a wider audience.

But if you're going to stick complex (if not 100% accurate weapons) in a lite sim, you got to keep provide the player with the instruction manual.

Hit the nail on the head!
This is where the majority of the returns probably came from?
Not enough info on for *anybody* as to launching the weapons. Even Steve said that the range bar within the game was screwed up -it was to be patched.......Now i don't think there was anything wrong with the range bar at all. It was a case of "hard coding" the weapons within the game so that only a percentage hit. This gave the player a feeling that he "wasn't doing it right"
So that the Russians wouldn't be *all* wiped out before getting a foothold -or so Rage thought..
I personaly tested it against a SAM on the ground where i launched a Brimstone at it. The missile went into the ground -clear sight to target 1 1/2 miles about 3,000ft.
I carried approx 16 brimstones and even although i flew different attack patterns at varying heights speeds, i was unable to destroy that PARTICULAR SAM!
16 Brimstones were launched and not one hit it, let alone destroy it!
Pretty conclusive proof that it is "dumbed down"

Anyway, enough has been said already about EFT..

Married and divorced in less than a month!

Cheers
Tracer




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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#562245 - 08/22/01 07:14 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by RandomDan:
I hope there's a patch, even if it is little late for my current save game. I hadn't noticed when I saved... but Villian's plane has left while he is still in the mission briefing. Who exactly has taken remains a mystery to me. Had it been an F-22, the autopilot could do the taxiing and takeoff (according to Total Air War anyway) but not here. I just hope whoever has got his plane brings it back soon... Villian is due to leave in less than 10mins
Screenshot and save game available http://randompages.delphicomp.com/pages/misc/eft.html


Weird..I've never seen that. I do notice that the enemy has a pretty good chunk of the island in your game.

In my game the enemy has only captured 17 sectors. next time I'll have to play the game on level 3 and let the Russians capture more land sectors. Wonder if that will up the number of missions assigned.

#562246 - 08/22/01 09:43 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
EFT/Rage shot itself in the foot by marketing the game as a "litesim" and the fact that anybody could pick it up and start shooting!
This is where the problem lies.
People *did* exactly that -pick it up and shoot, but they missed what they shot at!
Since this was aimed at a "mass" audience of people that had never played sims and those that had, the result was those that hadn't didn't want a lecture as to why their Brimstone had just gone underground!?
Or why their Meteors kept missing targets 9 out of 12 shots etc at *silly* ranges of 1 1/2 to 5 miles out!
The fun element was *lost* from that moment on.

Look at the fun factor in USAF -you could practicaly guarantee a missile hit *every* time or tone it down if you wanted it harder!

As for the "seasoned" simmers that played it EFT?
It was far too scripted and the poor ending totaly destroyed any want to replay it-it's almost as if they ran out of ideas as to how to end it?.. i mean an A/G rocket weapon being used to *try* and destroy a *future* 2015 nuclear bomber!! Sorry, the words "lost the plot" come screaming out at me..

Also by replaying it you quickly found out that the whole scenario repeated it's self,in the *same* places on the theatre map!) You could even "stalemate" the game by destroying the Russian landing craft and the game wouldn't advance!

Sorry, the "fans" were begging and willing to throw their money at Rage and Rage BLEW IT!

Nobody's fault but their **own**
Play Max Payne and you would think that Rage and Remedy were brother's!

Tracer



A damn fine post Tracer.

Sometimes the truth hurts, sometimes people can't take the truth... it's realtively easy to spot those people.



------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site

#562247 - 09/06/01 04:39 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Houston we have.....Liftoff!

Activating patch probe now...programmed to gather information ont the existence of "the mighty EFT patch".

Captain's log
09062001,beat 08:52

We keep assuming this alien technology exists, we keep looking for it in the vast blackness of the cyberspace, hoping to get there where nobody has been before.

Hoping to make some use of a cd rom called EFT

Let there be patch!

-.-

#562248 - 09/08/01 12:35 AM Re: Will there be a Patch?  

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Call them whiners all you want Andy, but they saved me from wasting my valuable time on this obviously unfinished beta software.

I'm just not willing to waste time on games unless it's time well spent ... personally I'm glad there are "whiners" habitating forums like these.

By the way, the idea that a software developer would throw in the towel because of comments on some little forum on the internet ... come on I know you don't believe that. That's utterly rediculous and you well know this. They pay attention to the sales figures, period.

Obviously Typhoon's sales have been a (well-deserved) failure.

#562249 - 09/08/01 02:35 PM Re: Will there be a Patch?  
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Read this quote from the link straight off the main page.
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/buggygames/


"How disappointing must it be for a young gamer to spend months saving up the $50 for a long awaited release only to install the game on his modest Windows 98 system and find that it won't even launch without causing a blue screen?
I love gaming and checking out new computer gadgets as much as most gamers do, and I respect and appreciate the efforts of software and hardware developers who put their hearts into these products. But no matter how hard I try, I can't help but get torqued off when I'm saddled with a pile of non-working code that won't even begin to function properly until six months worth of patches have been released.

Gamers are known as the risk-takers of the industry. They will invest their time and money into new hardware and software at a faster rate then almost any other consumer group and usually don't hesitate to pour over technical manuals and bulletins for hours trying to solve problems. The downside of this devotion to technology is that they are on the front lines when things go wrong. They often take the brunt of the hits involved in the consumer side of 'bleeding edge' technology and should get the credit they deserve for helping identify and solve some of these nagging problems.2


Yes we hardly roll-over and die when game *cause* us problems. These forums serve to solve a helluva lot of people's problems -which is more than you can say for Technical Support...who seem to be fully automated these day's and churn out the obligatry FAQ, regardless of what you ask!
We throw caution to the wind and buy software that has been pumped up to 100PSI, and then once you have parted with your money, said company *vanishes* because of poor sales= returns!
Your left with the preverbial "white Elephant"
The day's of a solid company providing support has more or less gone. They are up to their eye's in debt and then make as much profit from sales as they can then *shut shop* -of course not without throwing out a "life raft" to snare those unwaries into thinking that the game will be fully supported by addons/patches etc,etc,etc.So that they hang onto the game past it's return date!

YOU wonder why people get angry!! They are not "whiners" but customers burned by a whole load of crap games companies. This seems to be the norm for the companies today-fleece the *very* people who put money into their families mouths and then moonlight off to another job under another alias...and do it all again.

Tracer


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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

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