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#561606 - 07/09/01 08:02 AM You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Got mine recently. O..Why o why would Rage/Did not model that beautiful cockpit accurately in stead of "gamy" ? D**N !

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#561607 - 07/11/01 12:16 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Guess not !???

#561608 - 07/11/01 09:57 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Maybe I am just a moron ( I am often told so) but, I have no idea what poster you are talking about.

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http://www.cmacg-wings-of-fury.com

#561609 - 07/11/01 10:36 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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As far as I can tell you are no moron, but then again, aren't we all basically

The poster does not come with the game (understandably for the cockpit is so poorly done in the game), and I got it at the EF Typhoon promo stand at a recent air show.

The poster shows the cockpit in great detail and each of the MFD's also enlarged around it. Seize about 0,8 m x 0,5 m.

Be sure to get one on your next airshow.

Cheers !

#561610 - 07/12/01 09:05 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by sixpack:
The poster shows the cockpit in great detail and each of the MFD's also enlarged around it. Seize about 0,8 m x 0,5 m.

Be sure to get one on your next airshow.

Cheers !


The Leeuwarden airshow was great! Went on the friday (beter weather & not to crowdy). Think they all want to provide the next fighter for the KLu so we got demos of the Grippen, Raphale and Typhoon and mockups from both JSF contestants (the Boeing JSF was even painted in Dutch airforce colors).

I think we will continue to buy American (airforce sentiment, long standing relations) but I wouldn't mind a choice for Rapahle or Typhoon. Two engine's might give a beter survivability in Yugoslavia / Iraq type peace enforcement operations and less losses during normal operations / training with little threat of a WW-III style conflict these benefits may become more important.

#561611 - 07/12/01 11:22 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Why o why would Rage/Did not model that beautiful cockpit accurately in stead of "gamy" ? D**N !

They did!!! But the Eurofighter and RAF test pilots told them that this was not representative of the cockpit experience, and that a screen full of MFDs with clickable buttons was very UNrealistic.

So DID changed the cockpit to the stylised one that is used now. The RAF is considering using EFT as a tactical combat trainer for RAF squadrons. It DOES reproduce situational awareness and threat assessment in a very realistic manner. That's according to Keith Hartley - Eurofighter test pilot, the guy who flew the Farnborough 2000 air display. I believe him

Cheers,
Kenji
PC Pilot and Gamespot UK

[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 07-12-2001).]

#561612 - 07/12/01 11:42 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by ktakeda:
Why o why would Rage/Did not model that beautiful cockpit accurately in stead of "gamy" ? D**N !

The RAF is considering using EFT as a tactical combat trainer for RAF squadrons. It DOES reproduce situational awareness and threat assessment in a very realistic manner. That's according to Keith Hartley - Eurofighter test pilot, the guy who flew the Farnborough 2000 air display. I believe him


Well they'd better hurry up and fix the weapons inaccuracies then.

I also don't understand how you can say they did model the cockpit realistically - 1 radar mode? - no TIALD for targetting LGBs?

I can't imagine the RAF providing the pilots with keyboards to select their targets.

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 07-12-2001).]

#561613 - 07/12/01 11:51 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ktakeda:
[b]

They [b]did
The RAF is considering using EFT as a tactical combat trainer for RAF squadrons. It DOES reproduce situational awareness and threat assessment in a very realistic manner. That's according to Keith Hartley - Eurofighter test pilot, the guy who flew the Farnborough 2000 air display. I believe him

Cheers,
Kenji
PC Pilot and Gamespot UK [QUOTE]
--------------]

Well Kenji, I'd sure like to hear that from the pilots themselves in this board, but thanks for sharing that

#561614 - 07/12/01 11:53 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by boshar:
The Leeuwarden airshow was great! Went on the friday (beter weather & not to crowdy) .


Hi !

Was there on saturday. Great show indeed ! Next year in Gilze Rijen. See you there

sixpack

#561615 - 07/12/01 01:32 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  
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Personally I don't have a problem with the cockpit, what I'd LOVE too see those textures used be a bit more high-res. If the cockpit isn't goingto be clickable it could at least look a lot more crisper. Actually that might be a good idea for the add-on; some higher resolution textures.

#561616 - 07/12/01 02:16 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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I think its a *little* disingenous to say: "a cockpit full of clickable buttons is unrealistic"

I am not looking for Falcon 4; I am looking for Typhoon. And the Typhoon has multiple radar modes. And it has ECM that you can probably turn on. And ground steering. And possibly even a lot speed rudder :-)

I saw a clip on the news some years back from a Typhoon promotional video. The Typhoon had, like in that grand old sim JSF, a sort of projected grid overlay of terrain features for strike pilots flying NOE.

It has a TIALD. It has the PIRATE IRST system.

I want these things! :-)

Think EF2000, with more accurate bits and bobs, and MFDs that are actually IN the cockpit. Nothing fancy, just the occassional need to go heads down and line up an IRST seeker.

And no motherlands....

Gavin

#561617 - 07/12/01 03:58 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  
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I was so disgusted with the way DID handled themselves that I decided to build a Typhoon as one of my projects with SimTech.
Ofcourse being that its for CFS2, I cant emulate the radar modes,but we all do what we can in our own way huh?

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#561618 - 07/12/01 04:07 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Blond_Knight:
I was so disgusted with the way DID handled themselves that I decided to build a Typhoon as one of my projects with SimTech.
Ofcourse being that its for CFS2, I cant emulate the radar modes,but we all do what we can in our own way huh?


LOL

I was seriously thinking about starting my own flight sim EF2000 style - a Chinese person in the Flankers forum has had a good stab at a game flying the J10 (I think - can't remember).

If anyone else is interested...

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 07-12-2001).]

#561619 - 07/12/01 05:46 PM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Tornado, Manteau?

Someone in Finland is making a pretty nifty Hornet sim.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/jourait/

Maybe a bit of code sharing? Maybe someone who knows AI programming could help all out.

I can research and design...:-) But not code :-(

Gavin

#561620 - 07/13/01 12:01 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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I am looking for Typhoon. And the Typhoon has multiple radar modes. And it has ECM that you can probably turn on. And ground steering. And possibly even a lot speed rudder :-)

Eurofighter Typhoon has serious Data Fusion technology on-board. Inputs from ALL of the sensors are fed into the onboard threat database and displayed on all relevant displays. There is a LOT of automation. Same as the F-22. ECM should have a manual mode though, but remember that this is a single-seat fighter so automated ECM is certainly a desirable feature in some circumstances.

It has a TIALD. It has the PIRATE IRST system.

I remember seeing that DID wrote an instrument trainer for RAF pilots when the TIALD upgrade for Jaguars was put in during the Gulf War. Maybe they could release that as a separate product, subject to MoD restrictions The IR system in EFT is pretty good, the RAF test pilot (Brian Kemp)said it's great for counting the missiles left on each enemy aircraft in the vicinity to do threat assessment.

The point made by the test pilots is that thy can do a cockpit instrument scan much, much quicker than an untrained individual. Therefore putting MFD overlays in models their actual scan pattern better than a separate clickable MFD screen. Also, they use the HOTAS controls instinctively, therefore not using the MFD buttons much during combat. What we really need are multi-screen sims, but I guess that's a little ways off for combat sim at least

I know what you're saying regarding all of the real plane's features. The plane is very advanced in terms of reducing pilot workload though, although there are certainly features missing in the game.

I think what we have to remember is that the developers work really hard. There really aren't that many of them, and they have to prioritise features so the game ships on time. EFT has over 1 million lines of code already!

In an ideal world we would have a sim that had everything but hardcore features that could be switched off for novices. That takes a lot more programming though Think Combat Flight Simulator 2, but as I said elsewhere MS has a lot more people to make this possible!

Don't get me wrong, I think there is certainly a place for hardcore sims on my hard drive. Unfortunately, the fat cats don't always think that way. Just look at what's happening to Janes Combat Simulations - RIP.

Cheers folks,
Kenji
PC Pilot and Gamepspot UK

[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 07-12-2001).]

#561621 - 07/13/01 12:44 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Well, I think at this point, DID is probably the only one capable of such a sim.

They already have the nicely balanced gameplay thing done - or they have ways of doing it (TAW-hahah), and they have the beginner's workload done right.

Making a drag mode... well that would probably involving turning on drag, and then having a switch to set the drag calculations to zero in a beginner;s mode. Drag modelling would pretty much bring the Flight Model into the realm of the hardcore as it is.

That's the FM covered. A bigger deal would be the cockpit. Again, I think EF2000 is the way to go here. I used the cockpit, but mostly used the F1 and F3 keys in combat. F1 allowed me a better sense of what was going on, and F3 gave me padlock. A reasonably detailed cockpit with clickable head's down stuff, like different radar modes, the PIRATE, TIALD and so on would represent a good compromise between "Typhoon" and "Falcon" :-)

I love the Eurofighter. I think that not only is it a worthy successor to the Jaguar and Tornado F3, it is also probably the thing which will return the RAF to "bunch you don't want to mess with, ever," status. No longer will the RAF need USAF F-15s or F-16s as top cover.

(Kurt... I know, i know, i know. But still.)

Which makes me think that the Typhoon should a cool sim attached to it. And DID do the best Typhoon and F-22 sims. So they are the obvious candidates to do it. :-)

Its also the case, that a properly hardcore Typhoon would not be a huge challenge to fly and flight in. The F-22 in TAW was not, and the hardcore types still moaned. But i always suspected the FM and the workload were pretty much as authentic as you would get with a PC sim.

-

The campaign. Even without a Typhoon 2002, the campaign could benefit from a different set of friendly and enemy equipment. This could be in the "carrier ops" addon. I suggested this first as different time periods (eg 2005, 2009, and 2015), but perhaps this could be changed to.

Lite: The stuff we have.
"Authentic" Replace the Viggens with CF-18s. (a must!) The Grippens could probably go too (F-16 MLUs from...somewhere?). Sweden fighting Russia in the context of a Norwegian campaign is one thing, fighting Russia for Iceland ... well even my Swedish friends find this amusing.

But i digress. The Authentic mode could offer 2005-2009 era Western and Russian equipment and perhaps change the scripting to have the Russian invasion supported by hovercraft and landing ships, and not Erkanoplans. And no motherlands. The Kuznetsov carrier could make a final, and scarifying, final mission arc objective. And no SAM packing subs. :-)

Give us drag and an authentic mode in the carrier ops. Then we'll really start harassing Rage about a bigger sequel!

:-)

Gavin

#561622 - 07/13/01 08:07 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gavin Bennett:
Its also the case, that a properly hardcore Typhoon would not be a huge challenge to fly and flight
Gavin


Yes, well we simmers will never be able to know for sure, but for comparison: I find keeping the car on track in a PC racing (GP series/Nascar) SIM a whole lot harder to do than in real life (well i.r.t. racing I just know how to kick the tires on the Autobahn in Germany at 150 Mph/230kmph and on the countryside curvy roads). That's why I don't like playing PC racing games particularly. Although Nascar 3 is still on my HD.

I guess because I am unaware of the true feeling of jetflying I am satisfied with jetsims

I am sorry, off topic just a little..

SIM MEANS SIMULATION, so the aim is to convince you are doing the real thing and forget you are actually operating a PC (duh). An authentically rendered and clickable cockpit should therefore always be in a jetsim IMO one way or the other. Jane;s and DI for example understood that factor. Another thing: Modern computers can handle it, so why not !?

#561623 - 07/13/01 10:40 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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SIM MEANS SIMULATION, so the aim is to convince you are doing the real thing and forget you are actually operating a PC (duh). An authentically rendered and clickable cockpit should therefore always be in a jetsim IMO one way or the other. Jane;s and DI for example understood that factor. Another thing: Modern computers can handle it, so why not !?


You miss the point. The people who have experience in real jet fighters say that clickable cockpits are not realistic. That's Keith Hartley, a senior test pilot on the Eurofighter programme, and Brian Kemp, chief RAF test pilot with combat hours over Bosnia/Kosovo and a graduate of Top Gun. They are the ones who told DID, in no uncertain terms, to do away with clickable MFD look-down cockpits in their game.

For us mere mortals to be able to scan a cockpit with the speed and fluidity of a highly trained professional fighter pilot is nigh impossible. These folks are selected because they have a particular set of physical and mental qualities. Thes are then honed through years of training, from PPL through to fast jets. Then honed some more at schools like Top Gun.

Is it the aim of a fighter simulation to convey what you or I experience in a fighter cockpit - ie: fumbling around trying to remember what does what, or is it to convey what a trained fighter pilot experiences, ie: dogfighting while instinctively controlling the aeroplane because you have 1000s of flying hours under your belt?

I for one have a full-time job. I do not have time to spend 1000s hours just learning what button to press. I want the fighter pilot experience without the tedious and very difficult training that I probably wouldn't pass anyway. THAT is what I get out of PC flight sims.

For the full cockpit experience you are far better off with Fly!, which has fully clickable cockpits, or X-Plane which is a fantastic sim and you can build your own cockpit as you want them to look and behave. No guns and missiles though

Just my own honest opinion. Take it or leave it

Cheers, great swapping threads with all you wonderful folks
Kenji

#561624 - 07/13/01 11:33 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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Can someone post a pix of the real EFT cockpit. Thanks

#561625 - 07/13/01 11:40 AM Re: You like the official Typhoon cockpit poster ?  

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You miss my point, Kenji.
You can keep repeating whatever you want , but why not have both ? A realistic clickable cockpit for the purists and a wing commander style enlarged MFD's for (let's say) "instinctive playability".

You talked about the instinctual way real pilots handle the throttle and stick buttons. Is or will Typhoon (be) playable with HOTAS BTW, guess not ! Rest my case

And don't believe everything those pilots tell ya

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