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#561394 - 06/27/01 03:39 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Definately a good idea - whatever the results.

Die Hard

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#561395 - 06/27/01 04:39 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Hengist

You know, bandwidth is becoming expensive here at SimHQ. Rather than using your share and then some with your repeated complaints, why don't you give Mr Finnegan a call and tell him what you think? In fact, given the short distances in the UK, why don't you, Tracer, and the rest of the Typhoon gang just pay him a visit?

I'm sure he would be very receptive to your constructive feedback.

Andy


Andy,

I never said I was complaining about the game Typhoon???

What I was attempting to point out was the marketing line being put out. Typhoon is a great entry level sim as I've consistently said.

My point is that people complain about Typhoon not having X,Y and Z features once they buy it after seeing ads/quotes like the one I posted above.

I think you may have slightly misjudged the whole point of my post. I'll put it down to your American understanding of our English language (that bit's joke - please don't get upset and ban me ).


Regards,


------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#561396 - 06/27/01 05:08 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uroboros:
[B] Do simmers really have this fear?! Come on folks, the kind of sim that's produced, is purely based on the kind of sim that sells.
Producers will feel the desire to go through the trouble (the time, effort and money required) of making a realistic sim if the market demands it.

Exactly my point That's why complaining in these boards and posting requests for developers to read is just right; over and over again.

#561397 - 06/27/01 05:32 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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>

Andy,

Exactly! The point is that if this community has any power, that is to (marginally) influence sales! I end up buying almost all sims anyway (I'm sick) but before that I was relying on people's opinions on combatsim.com forums and on SimHQ now A LOT MORE than any review made by any (biased)magazine!

So the hope here is to force companies to make good sims! Saying the truth about a bad product (that did not met the community expectations) is a way to protest against a "don't worry if it is crap, they will buy it anyway " policy.
Or at least I want to believe that that is the intention of the simmers here.

for a non-globalization of all sims

-.-

#561398 - 06/27/01 07:17 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Hengist

You know, bandwidth is becoming expensive here at SimHQ. Rather than using your share and then some with your repeated complaints, why don't you give Mr Finnegan a call and tell him what you think? In fact, given the short distances in the UK, why don't you, Tracer, and the rest of the Typhoon gang just pay him a visit?

I'm sure he would be very receptive to your constructive feedback.

Andy


Andy, i *paid* for the sim....my money is gone!
I put valid question's to Steve and he doesn't answer them!! No i'm not being a moaning arse. Rather i'm putting forward constructive criticism and glaring fault's in the game/gameplay.

ie:
"When you engage the Motherland, your wingman is as much use as a chocolate fireguard!.....why? Because the **only** way to win is by using an air-to-ground weapon (CRV-7) on an Aircraft!!"

Yes that's bloody logical Andy?

It's broken, because if you have one pilot left ok, the CPU load's out the CAP plane's that will "help" huh! you with A/A weapon's.

Now since the Motherland **can't** be engaged by anyform of A/A weapon other than gun's!!! You tell me what form of logic then applies to that equation?

They first use their BVR's then use their ASRAAM's and then all get shot down...finito
Gun's is last on their list and by then the Motherland has turned them into sive's!

My reaction; it wasn't tested with one pilot?
how do i know?.........well let's say 10-15 attempt's with the above screwed up equation with not one answer as to how to complete it!

I can carry 80CRV-7 for the Motherland i need to carry A/A for it's 8 escort ok?
I'm **ONE** pilot remember!

I hit it with the 80CRV-7 from about 2miles out...it still flies!?
I empty my gun's into it it still flzzzzzzzzz......

You wonder why i have a problem!?

I wouldn't waste my time with Mr Finnegan.
If Typhoon's problem's aren't addressed in a patch then i'll do my talking with my wallet *and* never buy another One of their products again. Simple as that.
I'm slightly more mature than to go "banging" on his door when he's probably about elusive as Sadam.

Hell, the American's sue anything at the drop of a hat!
I'm trying to be a bit more productive?
Instead it's all to simple to go "blind" on the internet and read what you want to read eh?
et all at Rage.......................ah well their loss.

Tracer




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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#561399 - 06/27/01 08:30 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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If it helps any - I have completed with one pilot (Villain)

Loadout: 120 CRV-7,Centre Fuel
(Remove wingtip ASRAAMs and conformal meteors)

After takeoff head straight for waypoint at 180% throttle until motherland appears in HUD, then aim off to LHS and instruct wingman to fly attack formation. Round the motherland at 4 miles separation and line up at the rear. IGNORE THE DRONES. At 3 miles separation on its six, brake and set throttle autopilot when at 450 knots. zoom in and fire all CRVs below/to the right of the motherland - when all crvs are gone the UCAVs appear to peel off (maybe the pilots are all concussed aboard the motherland Move into gun range and set throttle autopilot again to 450 - instruct wingie to engage motherland - I find I can avoid most of the flak by jinking in a vertical axis (pitch only) then cannons until the motherland drops out of the sky

Hope this helps

Norb

p.s. - throttle not functioning on a gameport stick running win2k - crash to desktop when trying to view EBC news (GeForce3) detonator 12.4 drivers - anyone with any ideas - btw latest patch applied

#561400 - 06/28/01 08:55 AM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Here's my position regarding this forum. Sugar catches more flies than salt. Let's keep it clean and the criticisms productive.

Andy[/B][/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm having a bad week or something, I don't know, but here's my take on what most message board limits are, and you can correct me if SimHQ's boards are different.

I have always been of the understanding that as long as you keep things clean, and not flame anyone, you can basically say what you want concerning the topic at hand. That's the way all other board operate that I visit. I agree that doing searches on certain topics is a good idea if you are looking for something specific, have the time to do the searches, or are a recluse and don't want to talk to anyone, but given the limit that this game has as far as game complexity and re-playability, you can make the point that just about everything that can be said about this game has already been discussed. Hell, the most recent post on many boards have been talked about over and over again. OK, so what? If you don't dare to continue to challenge Rage and other game/sims produces how does one go about changing anything?

When I started visiting this board and asking a few questions, you remarked that I should do a search and find my answer that way. That's all good, but maybe I just want to talk to someone about my problem or concerns and have someone respond to me.

As complex as F4 is, I find that most F4 boards cover the same things over and over too. New ideas always seem to come from the topics that have been repeated many times over. That's the beauty of it.

As far as I'm concerned, productivity in someone comments are relative. I would hate to think that people are holding back on commenting because they might not think it's productive enough, or deserving of the cost of bandwidth.

Anyway, I'm not going to beat a dead horse, just had to comment on what's bothering me.
Thanks for the time.
Coffee

PS. If someone know's of any other Typhoon boards that are more "open" can you please send me the addy to:
JFULLER2@mn.rr.com
Thanks



[This message has been edited by Coffee1 (edited 06-28-2001).]

#561401 - 06/28/01 09:33 AM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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I think what they mean is, that people are moaning at the rate that they want to change Typhoon into something it wasn't and isn't meant to be.....like geting clickable cockpits, 100000 buttons that do trivial things as far as combat goes, I have to agree with Andy, as people are going around moaning as if they advertised Falcon, and gove us Fighters Anthology.....when what they advertised was Typhoon, and they gave us Typhoon..... You will only be dissapointed if you expect to much.

Yes Typhoon does have it's problems...but people are moaning as if no other game ever did.....look at the USB problem, EECH had it, they fixed it eventually, and I have no doubt that Rage/DID will fix this too.
But some people have moaned and blamed Typhoon when it is a driver problem they need to look into... If Rage made Typhoon to look at the output of DirectX for its controls.....and DirectX doesn't give the right output......whos fault is it???? The joystick maker? Rage/DID??? or microsoft for giving us one of the most bug ridden pieces of software in history......apart from any of my atempts at software engineering at uni! I know which one I shall blame for the time being.....

Now I dont wish to P!SS any one off, so I appologise for any offence that may be taken, be it implied or otherwise...

Now I know things have hit the fan, when I need to put a disclaimer at the end of a post!

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#561402 - 06/28/01 09:57 AM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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No need for a disclaimer valleyboy; and I doubt there is any offense taken. I think you hit the nail right on the head. And I could've not said better myself.

#561403 - 06/28/01 12:03 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Uboros

Well, he (valleyboy) has NOT in fact 'hit the nail on the head'. He has simply voiced his own opinion - an opinion which you (predictably maybe) subsribe to. Many others will not.

[Insert relevant disclaimer/apology here]

Die Hard

#561404 - 06/28/01 12:35 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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OK..In My Honest Opinion, he hit the nail on the head. Better?

#561405 - 06/28/01 02:02 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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Coffee

That post is fair enough, but one small clarification, if I could.

Our SimHQ boards are not like many of the others. People are not free to say anything they want when it is to the detriment of the overall purpose of the forum.

This forum was set up to answer questions about Typhoon and to pass along any help that was needed.

It was not set up to be a "I hate Rage/Typhoon" forum. Angry, spiteful posts may have their place...but not a big one. Once a point has been made, then we should leave it there...particularly when the same small group of dissatisfied players are making repeated complaints about the same problems.

I have to ask myself, "What's the point?" Do these people think we need to be reminded weekly on how angry they are? Do they think the developers are being encouraged to greater efforts when they read the continuing spew of angry complaints?

Note the use of the word "angry". These posts are not simple "This doesn't work and needs to be fixed" posts. As we all have seen, these posts have gone far beyond that. When this happens..as it has here..then this web site steps in and says "enough!".

Why? First of all, it's our site and we make the rules. It's as simple as that.

But more important, we know that most of our readers don't come here to read bitching and moaning, especially when nothing new is being said. They know that all sides of an issue will get a fair airing. From that, they can decide one way or the other.

The crux of the issue is the "fair airing" question. Someone has to decide when something goes too far.

On our boards, the SimHQ staff makes that call. Not to clamp down on anyone...but to keep these boards as open and as informative as possible without providing an open venue to anyone of any point of view who just wants to mouth off.

Andy

#561406 - 06/28/01 02:28 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Norb:
If it helps any - I have completed with one pilot (Villain)

Loadout: 120 CRV-7,Centre Fuel
(Remove wingtip ASRAAMs and conformal meteors)

After takeoff head straight for waypoint at 180% throttle until motherland appears in HUD, then aim off to LHS and instruct wingman to fly attack formation. Round the motherland at 4 miles separation and line up at the rear. IGNORE THE DRONES. At 3 miles separation on its six, brake and set throttle autopilot when at 450 knots. zoom in and fire all CRVs below/to the right of the motherland - when all crvs are gone the UCAVs appear to peel off (maybe the pilots are all concussed aboard the motherland Move into gun range and set throttle autopilot again to 450 - instruct wingie to engage motherland - I find I can avoid most of the flak by jinking in a vertical axis (pitch only) then cannons until the motherland drops out of the sky

Hope this helps

Norb

p.s. - throttle not functioning on a gameport stick running win2k - crash to desktop when trying to view EBC news (GeForce3) detonator 12.4 drivers - anyone with any ideas - btw latest patch applied


Thankyou Norb, Now you are the first post that i have read that *actualy* completed this mission with one pilot. -in other words it's a rare day indeed!
I will try your method and see how i get on.

It's such a pity that the method to destroy the Motherland was a boring CRV-7 since it's 2015...you would have thought that Rage could have used our own "future weapon"? Then our wingman would look cool in a last stand dogfight -sky full of contrails etc....NATO in the game, is still in the dark ages, forget 2015. More like 1915!

Tracer


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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#561407 - 06/29/01 10:05 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Uroboros:
Agreed!

At this point you either hate Typhoon, or you like it (while admiting it has flaws). If you fall into the former catagory; what exactly is the point of bitching and complaining here? If Typhoon isn't for you, move on to a sim you like. What exactly does the complaining for the sake of complaining acomplish ?


Uroboros,

I have nothing against you personally (*I'll get back to that later), but it seems that whenever Andy says something, five minutes later you come along and kinda say the samething. It's almost like your waiting for Andy to give you the green light and you hide behind his statements.

Now because some people have replied 'off topic/the subject I was referring to', and implied that I was attacking the game Typhoon (which wasn't the case, I was referring to the marketing ploy being put around), it smacks slightly of a personal attack. So I feel I also have to become personal (which is something I hate) and defend myself, seeing as nobody has had the decency to acknowledge my point, (I don't expect an apology from this BBS by the way).

So I have to say...
'If Typhoon isn't for you, move on to a sim you like. What exactly does the complaining for the sake of complaining acomplish ?'...

If other points of view aren't for you, move on to a thread you like. What exactly does complaining for the sake of complaining acomplish? If you fall into the former catagory; what exactly is the point of bitching and complaining here?

Hell I have been spending a lot of time creating an editor based on the files Steve Hunt sent me (and also through my own Hex editing efforts). I'm now in a position where Typhoon plays more like the game I was lead to believe it was from reading the ads about it. If I can't say what's on my mind without people personally attacking me and misquoting my statements, then it just leaves a nasty taste in my mouse (*edit: mouse? lol, even my mouth as well )... so much so, that I may just release my editor without official backing. I could go on to comment about the strategy guide, and say what strategy? or more to the point... what tactical level is going to be explained, but I think I've already said enough on this.

All I want to say, is please think about your replies before you post.

Like I said, I have nothing against you personally or others for that matter...


------------------


Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

[This message has been edited by *Hengist* (edited 06-29-2001).]

#561408 - 06/30/01 12:34 AM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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Trust me, I'm not hiding behind Andy or anything like that; we're actually the same person. Just kidding.

Looking back at my post; it really wasn't directed at anything you said; even though it did come after a post by Andy directed to you. Sorry if it seemed that way; I was responding to Andy's statement and you just got caught in the crossfire. Actually your comments regarding this quote..

"Eurofighter Typhoon is one of the most advanced military flight simulation games available today

was valid and I agree with you. My comment was directed more at the level of SOME of the complaints directed towards the game. I say "some" because I'll be the first to admit that Typhoon has a little more than a few things worth complaining about.

Again..no offense or insult intended towards you.

BTW..great to editor you are working in an editor. Sounds good.

[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 06-29-2001).]

#561409 - 07/01/01 10:29 AM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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haven't been to this board for a while

and the same shit is till going on
repetitive bickering from certain posters
and endless replies from the moderator going nowhere

fact is the game isn't what most users wanted it to be.. so this board will never become what the
moderator wants it to be.... nuff said


anyway i like typhoon for what it is
and if steve fullfills the promesis he made
for the supported addon and the unsupported patch all is fine for me..

well i will skip my comments on this game .. this because the moderator wont like it and probably will pet me like a dog.. or little child

nor will i bring up the outstanding points of this sim (i am calling this a lite (sugar/fat free) sim) as i probably get flamed be the dissapointed buyers department

anyways Steve in generally Typhoon is a very good piece of software and i enjoy it alot
..good luck with your addon and ofcoarse the unsupported patch you mentioned...


------------------
Metalhead aka Widowmaker

#561410 - 07/01/01 04:25 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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I think this is a case of "too many chiefs and not enough Indians" with management and PR/Advertising not knowing a thing about the game.

The fact that there seem to be so few developers who were involved with the Typhoon team (as opposed to the number who made TAW and Wargasm) just shows (IMO anyway) what's going on.

I think this is probably the main reason that the game isn't what a lot of people thought it could have been.

Steve himself has said that multiplayer campaign would take ages to develop.

The number of times I've seen products advertised as something they are obviously not is amazing. I've seen graphics software advertised as "database" software (because you could store images as files... ???).

I've left Typhoon now (off my HD too) because replaying it isn't interesting or worth it IMO, and it's so tedious (waiting for missions).

I don't think I'll be going for the carrier ops addon either. I may have a play around with the unofficial opening up patch, but I doubt it because the game would still be based with "fly six pilots and wait for them to have a mission" - this IMO is the biggest flaw.

What would get me back to it, would be a TAW style game, as I've said many times before (and so have other people), without the "fly six pilots", "wait for a mission", and "toned down weapons". But I can't see this ever happening, due to financial reasons, number of developers and other things.

It's sad really, the game technically had so much potential, it has to be one of the best looking games graphically, but I'd prefer content over appearance.

RIP Typhoon.

Cheers,
Manteau

#561411 - 07/01/01 08:23 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Die Hard:
Andy

I (very stupidly) bought my copy of Typhoon from PCWorld - that means no refunds.

I was quite happy to accept the game as 'a game'.

But the product is essentially flawed (technically) and I, like many others, am fed up with having to put up with buying faulty goods. To name one example; USB is not exactly cutting edge technology is it? Why on Earth are USB joysticks having so many problems with this game? This game was put on the market with known faults/problems, and in any other industry this is criminal.

On my new computer I can't get past the ecranoplan missions because the game always crashes, and nothing I do seems to fix it - I've now given up. Is it right for me to spend hours of my valuable time trying to fix someone else's mistakes?

I've paid good money for what is basicaly junk - I think I have a right to complain. And to complain and complain and complain, until something is done.

Die Hard


As Die Hard says, Buggy software is something that is indeed at the borders to criminality. This has to be dealt with. If complaining is the correct way to do it, I don't know. But at least it is something.

For the "Typhoon is not a sim" part, I think it indeed has been advertised as a 'lite' sim; not a FPS as I think it should. TAW is a lite sim!

I just have to share this as it is related to buggy software:

Typhoon is not the buggiest thing I ever saw, not even Falcon 4! I played through Fallout Tactics, it took me quite a while since it crashed every ten or twenty minutes. The developers even JOKED about it in the end scene!

The bad guy said something like this in the end:

-bad guy (a computer): You have crashed my systems over and over again. But you have been stubborn and not given up... bla bla bla...

------------------
Best Regards - Cain

#561412 - 07/01/01 09:24 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  
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Uroboros Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manteau:
I've left Typhoon now (off my HD too) because replaying it isn't interesting or worth it IMO, and it's so tedious (waiting for missions).

I don't think I'll be going for the carrier ops addon either. I may have a play around with the unofficial opening up patch, but I doubt it because the game would still be based with "fly six pilots and wait for them to have a mission" - this IMO is the biggest flaw.

What would get me back to it, would be a TAW style game, as I've said many times before (and so have other people), without the "fly six pilots", "wait for a mission", and "toned down weapons". But I can't see this ever happening, due to financial reasons, number of developers and other things.

Cheers,
Manteau


Personally I don't have a problem with the six pilots, and I'm getting use to the toned down weapons (you just have to learn how to use them); it's the waiting that needs to be fixed above ANYTHING else IMHO.

There has to be a way to make sure that one of your pilots is always involved in a mission. Hopefully Steve can come up with an elegant solution to this.

MY solution would be to simply scrap the whole notion of JUST 6 pilots. I would have it set up like TAW giving you access to ANY mission involving Typhoons. BUT, as a compromise I would limit that amount of pilot losses that you'd be allowed. You lose 6 pilots and the game is over for you.

That probably isn't doable..so I'll leave it for Steve to figure it out.

[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 07-01-2001).]

#561413 - 07/01/01 09:45 PM Re: Take 2 Publishes Typhoon!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Uroboros:
Personally I don't have a problem with the six pilots, and I'm getting use to the toned down weapons (you just have to learn how to use them); it's the waiting that needs to be fixed above ANYTHING else IMHO.


I wouldn't mind the fly six pilots thing if I could trust the AI do fight when I was doing other things. From my experience they don't - they get into trouble and the pilot bar pops up flashing red.

I agree the waiting is the main problem.

Quote:
There has to be a way to make sure that one of your pilots is always involved in a mission. Hopefully Steve can come up with an elegant solution to this.

MY solution would be to simply scrap the whole notion of JUST 6 pilots. I would have it set up like TAW giving you access to ANY mission involving Typhoons. BUT, as a compromise I would limit that amount of pilot losses that you'd be allowed. You lose 6 pilots and the game is over for you.

That probably isn't doable..so I'll leave it for Steve to figure it out.


I think the easiest way would be to just open up some of the missions. I've clicked on the smart view button loads of times when I didn't have any missions to fly to find an Typhoon doing a mission. Admittedly, I see more Apaches doing Airfield denial and Lynx's flying around.

Surely I'd be better at airfield denial in a Typhoon than an Apache???

Another thing that would be easier is to just allow weapons in ferry flights. Then when there are no missions, we just swap bases, take off, and fly around doing a custom mission to our choosing

Cheers,
Manteau

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