Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#560613 - 06/03/01 04:27 PM Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Vaider-Raider Offline
Junior Member
Vaider-Raider  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Ok...

After reading some posts... I've been thinking about this a little. In the constitution there is the big 'freedom of speech' thing right? Isn't there also something in that same bit of paper about the freedom not to speak? In the past I've chosen the former because I felt that it was something that had to be discussed so that Typhoon could be improved on... after seeing a 'request' by the boards admin not to express negativity over the game I decided to stop... reason basically being that if you didnt enjoy the game you shouldnt be in the forum (mis quote.. I'm lazy this afternoon). I'm more than slightly annoyed with this:

1. you read a good review... you buy the game? you read a bad review... you think again?

2. DiD were very tight lipped over this game and if I dig around long enough I think I could find a preview in a well rated Uk magazine that suggested possibly more than 10 times that this would be the sucessor to EF2000 (2 page preview.. lots of luvrly high res pictures);

since that preview I heard nothing at all until I asked in EB if it had been released... I pass electronics boutique several times a day when going/comming from college and I've never even seen it on their pre-release boards nevermind on the big banners they use.... (in between that I asked in EB if they had even heard of the game and was told no... he checked his big book and told me that it wasnt even planned for release for this summer. (simply because it wasnt on the list !)

I started reading this board because I asked the guy about it and he went up the back and took it off the top shelf.. I took the position that DiD obviously knew what they were doing by their previous efforts and like every new game... I got really excited and could hardly wait to come home and play this masterpiece... I felt I had no reason to read the boards, my mistake.

If you refer to the introduction of this again... the administrators request 'minimal' negative content... hmmm I'll let you make up your own minds on that one.

ok...

I had a 'discussion' with a few people a little while ago and they suggested that the simple fact there were 4000 msgs in this forum meant that Typhoon must be a good game.. I'm confused to this since 49 on just one recent thread of this board (now standing at over 5000) was over an interesting argument about someones 'rant' and had nothing really to do with Typhoon apart from his/hers honest opinion (all be it a bad one).

I agree that repetative posts about the same issues are annoying especially when those issues (usually bugs) will probaly get fixed a month or so later.. after all, patience is a virtue right? I'll agree that trollers are also annoying... OTOH I'll definetly agree that everyone is entitled to speak... or not to speak their own opinions.

I have some simple questions to everyone on the board... possibly a poll if you wish? though maybe that would be asking too much.

how many of you reading this can honestly say that what they bought was:

A: what you thought you paid for

B: worth what they paid for

C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.

(saying that it will/wont be on you hdisk as long as TAW doesnt count... TAW has amassed a following over the years that only the creme of flight sims usually get... comparing this to Typhoon after its initial release is unfair to Typhoon IMHO because Typhoon is still so 'innocent'. (revised since first reply due to fairness...)

four things that hang a lot on this is are:

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. if so what were you expecting from typhoon?

2: how long have you had typhoon ?

3: have you completed the campaign ?

4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?


My personal opinion is that I was misled.. either by A: Rage, B: DiD, C: EB Or D: that magazine... I'm not placeing the blame on either one because in all honesty I dont think I could even if I wanted to. I was not mislead by the board because I rarely read it until I bought the game.

That is my opinion... I dont wish to start a flame war and I'd rather not have it commented on because it is from my experience only... I will though, in future look closer in to what the differences are between a 'litesim' and a 'arcade' game I've read quite a few times here that TAW by some is counted as a litesim... I dont share that view.. but again that is my personal opinion... I count Harpoon as a hardcore sim for example...

I haven't slandered Typhoon here... and if it suggests I have then I am not the one suggesting it should be.

I'm not ranting at typhoon so please, nobody take advantage of this post and add on their own in game annoyances.. doing so might re-arrouse the whole sim/litesim argument *G*

Its not an annoyances I'm looking for...

just an overall verdict taking everything into account...

[This message has been edited by Vaider-Raider (edited 06-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Vaider-Raider (edited 06-03-2001).]

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#560614 - 06/03/01 04:45 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Vaider-Raider Offline
Junior Member
Vaider-Raider  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaider-Raider:


how many of you reading this can honestly say that what they bought was:

A: what you thought you paid for

B: worth what they paid for

C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. if so what were you expecting from typhoon?

2: how long have you had typhoon ?

3: have you completed the campaign ?

4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?


my answers...

A: no...
B: no... (for a couple of hours, yes!)
C: no...

1: yes, I enjoyed them more than any other game I've bought... I wasnt expecting something as good as EF2k/TAW but I was expecting something along those lines.

2: more than a month and a half

3: no... though I have tried desperatly to find reasons to do so since I respect DiD so much... already knowing that no matter what I do it ends one way or another depending on the last two levels has kerbed that enthusiasm... and the lack of other features other than the campaign has turned my attention back to such games as EECH and Falcon 4.

4. apparantly, because I really like TAW then I must be a heavy sim fan.... I loved Strike commander to death however... so ... hmmmmm not sure on that one.

:-) Ian


[This message has been edited by Vaider-Raider (edited 06-03-2001).]

#560615 - 06/03/01 05:11 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
I totaly agree with what you said Vaider-Raider since *everyone* is entitled to share their good and bad point's of a game.
That way, people take small snippet's off of the opinions of "other's"(good or bad) and build a picture of whether the game would idealy suit them or not.

A magazine review is pointless since it is *one* person's couple-of-hours-fly-about....The big picture is made up of a majority don't you agree?

That way the developer's listen and hopefully improve/learn since they themselves can suffer from "tunnel vision" during a games development cycle due to the BETA testing being generaly behind closed door's.

The full impact is only felt once the game is released and -as in the case of a flight sim- many hours put into it!

Think of it like a film....if the end still captivates you like the beginning, then you'll be on the look-out for the follow-up


OT here: the B17-2 forum is/was full to the brim of "Negative" comment's(MUCH worse than what has been posted here!)which did *nothing* for the community.....but none were ever stopped by Sim staff, why??

I and many other's tried our best to help the few that could be bothered wading through those ridiculous childish comments(most of which were the customary Hasblo {guess what goes here..........} asking for help.
Sure the sim has problem's -especialy the "corrupted" dialogue file..hmmmm i said my piece about that!....but then so does nearly every sim inc Typhoon?

Eventualy i got *sick* of bothering to go into THAT forum every again.
Now it's more or less dead and those member's are on bombs-away...(not the way it should have happened)

I thought it was SimHQ's policy to stop that?
If so what went wrong with the admin on that forum? It just say's SimHQ's staff????

No it's not an argument or flame just a disappointed "too little too late for B-17 2 forum fan"

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#560616 - 06/03/01 05:53 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


My answer to those points would be No to all three as well.

Admittedly, perhaps I was expecting Typhoon to be something it wasn't, but I think the original design of Typhoon is what lets it down.

Personally, I prefer games that are realistic, or at least, realistic from my point of view.

Only a few games have managed to give me this experience, EF2000, H&D, ProjectIGI (but this was let down due to no multiplayer, huge scripting reliance (although it was a FPS admittedly, so a campaign wouldn't have worked)).

These games I play again, and again, and again, even though H&D and Project IGI are just scripted. It's because they try to be as realistic as possible, while STILL being easy to play and use.

The next game I'm eagerly awaiting is Operation Flashpoint. A lot of people originally though Wargasm would have been like this, but that too became simplistic.

As far as I'm concerned, Operation Flashpoint will be one fantastic game, allowing you to control all sorts of vehicles, some aircraft, and troops - set in the latter stages of the cold war with REALISTIC hardware and weapons.



Who could want more...

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 06-03-2001).]

#560617 - 06/03/01 06:28 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Vaider-Raider Offline
Junior Member
Vaider-Raider  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:


A magazine review is pointless since it is *one* person's couple-of-hours-fly-about....The big picture is made up of a majority don't you agree?


I totally agree... the main reason for this poll. I only read the SimHQ review and took no heed of the rating by PC Arena on the Uk box.. I was baseing my enthusiasm to buy soley on the latest DiD title their reputation and the unlimitied enjoyment I've had over the years soaring the sky even with 'litesims' such as TFX.

I could begin to say that Rage used this reputation to their advantage since a lot of events seem to fall into place with this... I wont though... if that were true then I shouldnt have been so stupid in the first place and also... after all the fun I've had.. I just cant believe DiD would do that *G*. I dont believe in mag reviews... but I do read previews for tidbits and eyecandy.

Think of it like a film....if the end still captivates you like the beginning, then you'll be on the look-out for the follow-up

I think you are right... I'm gagging to see the 2nd and third matrix !!!!!!!!!

I dont however believe in paying 30 for another 4 days... has the Microsoft tingle to it.. again IMHO.

OT here: the B17-2 forum is/was full to the brim of "Negative" comment's(MUCH worse than what has been posted here!)which did *nothing* for the community.....

I too bought that game *lol* I played B-17 while the smoke was practically spewing out of my amiga power pack !. B-17 II IMO was seriously flawed from the beginning... I played it about 7 times... and then never bothered at all after that nevermind post in the forum *Sigh*. I really enjoyed jumping about the positions to get good views... but I seem to feel it was a bit like Black & White... all candy limited gameplay.. they really really should have taken the fighter part straight out... its far too frustrating to play and IMHO looks half finished... unable to imply the multiplayer functions or not... its sluggishness on a high end pc nailed the coffin on that box.. and thats why I hope that it doesnt happen here also.

It was only until after I had bought B-17 that I read the review here... and that is one review I think should have started warning bells in my head... Typhoon on the other hand I did read... and it didnt stall my enthusiasm at all.

I'm not a fan of the B-17 II game... that really wasnt my kind of sim and I admit that... I wanted it to be though..

Thats the difference I think.... B-17 wasn't my kind of sim... even how much I wanted to get into it.... I didnt post comments on that board because of that simple reality.

Typhoon is my kind of sim... and I'm still trying to get into it.

#560618 - 06/03/01 06:53 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Vaider,

My answer to the first 3 questions would be as follows...

a) No.
b) Yes... However that's without comparing it to the features you get for 30 quid in other titles.
c) No.

My answers for the other 4 questions are as follows...

1) Yes, I've been playing DiD games for years. I was expecting Typhoon to carry on the tradition of a feature packed title. However saying that, I was shocked when they released Wargasm.

2) I've had Typhoon since the day before it was released in the UK.

3) Yes.

4) On the whole, a heavy sim fan. The reason... Becuase I like 'simulators' as opposed to games, this may be due to my age?


------------------


Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

[This message has been edited by *Hengist* (edited 06-03-2001).]

#560619 - 06/03/01 06:58 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by Manteau:
The next game I'm eagerly awaiting is Operation Flashpoint. A lot of people originally though Wargasm would have been like this, but that too became simplistic.

As far as I'm concerned, Operation Flashpoint will be one fantastic game, allowing you to control all sorts of vehicles, some aircraft, and troops - set in the latter stages of the cold war with REALISTIC hardware and weapons.

Who could want more...

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 06-03-2001).]


OFP is a very simple-to-get-into game and the best interface for controlling men vehicles that i have come across.

Wargasm
EB-Electronic Battlefield as it was first called. Remember that? The ability to download future vehicles etc.... failed me in that i was so taken aback by the ability to command troop's/vehicles etc (from FP) that i went all "tactical" with it Hiding behind rock's and trying to creep up on enemy positions........when of course the enemy had the ability to send in bombers/helo's *without* first sending in spy plane's
This of course meant that you were wiped out as soon as you set your forces on the bloody map! (so much for tactics) The AI attacked you *without* you first being detected by them.............

I got the excellent savegame editor that allowed you to set as many types of troops/vehicles that you wanted before going into battle........i still got wiped out.
If it had had the AI of OFP whereby it waited/detected/hunted for you then it would have been a classic?

Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#560620 - 06/03/01 07:10 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
OFP is a very simple-to-get-into game and the best interface for controlling men vehicles that i have come across.

Wargasm
EB-Electronic Battlefield as it was first called. Remember that? The ability to download future vehicles etc.... failed me in that i was so taken aback by the ability to command troop's/vehicles etc (from FP) that i went all "tactical" with it Hiding behind rock's and trying to creep up on enemy positions........when of course the enemy had the ability to send in bombers/helo's *without* first sending in spy plane's
This of course meant that you were wiped out as soon as you set your forces on the bloody map! (so much for tactics) The AI attacked you *without* you first being detected by them.............

I got the excellent savegame editor that allowed you to set as many types of troops/vehicles that you wanted before going into battle........i still got wiped out.
If it had had the AI of OFP whereby it waited/detected/hunted for you then it would have been a classic?

Tracer



I still play Wargasm, but only at LANs, due to the fact that multiplayer only let you be one unit at once which was rediculous, as in single player, you could control multiple units C&C style (well, almost) from the map screen.

It's physics engine was really good (well, the troopers also had the same vehicle type physics modelling - it was funny watching them skid in the same way as tanks) and the graphics were fantastic.

Some of the latter single player missions were pathetic though, with loads and loads of the same type of vehicle in a small area.

I've actually managed to complete Wargasm without the cheats or without modifying the saved games

Yeah, the AI was dodgy, they'd just go straight for you (sometimes they'd even just stay on one side of a river and not both going across using a bridge) and in the choppers, whenever I popped over a hill, the vehicles were already firing, even though they hadn't seen me yet.

Cheers,
Manteau

#560621 - 06/03/01 07:40 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Vaider-Raider:

how many of you reading this can honestly say that what they bought was:

A: what you thought you paid for

B: worth what they paid for

C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. if so what were you expecting from typhoon?

2: how long have you had typhoon ?

3: have you completed the campaign ?

4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?


A: NO, out of ignorance i expexted something along the lines of SEF2k or TAW

B: YES to a cetain degree, I love the dogfights, but the missions suck they are limeted to CAP, INTERDICTION either take out T90s or destroy Tower at an airfield even if you allready hit that very target 2hrs game time ago, those russians are speedy tower builders, and SUPPLY, and then the scripted missions.

C:NO, without an addon it will be gone in a month, back to EECH.

1: I played TFX, EF2000+TACTCOM, SEF2000, ADF & TAW : My favorites were SEF2000 & TAW still play them.

2: One month.

3: NO, and Im allready bored, I cant stand waiting for missions, then go to briefing for 5 min, then planning for 5 min, then getting into aircraft...............

4: lite or heavy hard to say : I consider flanker 2.5 heavy its too hard to get into, im too lazy I want the best compromize between realism, interactivity and fast paced action with good dogfights.
Im a EECH/TAW/SEF2000 guy I consider them moderate sims they got the right balance.
Typhoon is too light for me, too little interactivity in the planning phase, if it had been up to me thoose ruskies were long gone by now, but I keep getting meaningless missions.

If there was only a way to go directly to dogfights

[This message has been edited by Turbo_tiger (edited 06-03-2001).]

#560622 - 06/04/01 12:03 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
A. Yes, Being on the EF-2000 list and hanging out here; I already knew what Typhoon was going to be about. Yes, I wasn't aware of certain specfic details, but what I got was I expected.

Rage has said from DAY1 that the hardcore crowd might not be happy with Typhoon. I don't think anyone was mislead. If some people bought the game ASSUMING that is was going to be a sequel of sorts to EF-2000..it's unfortunate. But no where does it say on the (in big bold letters)

"The sequel to that great sim EF-2000"

IMHO there was a lot of information regarding the game before it came out. Some people here and elsewhere already had the game and were giving their opinions. No one here now (who could have been here before reading up on the game) could have been going into this purchase blind.

B. Considering I'm actually playing it; yes it was worth it. I can't honestly say that about some other games/sim that I've bought in the past year. To me that's really the only way I can gauge worth.

C. I will play the game for as long as it remains enjoyable. Might be one more time (haven't finished it once yet) or mabye twice. I really do not know. It will be judged like any other game I own.

(as for this TAW following. Well where exactly has this following been. Seems to have been hiding. Then someone mods the resolution to 1024x768 and they all come out of the woodwork. Like suddenly it became OK to like the game. Too bad this all this TAW love didn't happen after the game was actually released. Might have helped it live longer. And yes..I've owned TAW from day one and thought it was great back then)


1. Yes..I've played TAW. I expected from Typhoon exactly what I was told to expect.

2. Since a week after it was released

3. Have not completed the campaign

4. Lite (in some areas) sim fan. I'm more interested in the campaign (and the addition of one in a sim) than the 100% realistic modelling of a plane or it's weapon systems. Give me a hardcore campaign (that works) over anything

The only way anyone was mislead on Typhoon was if they were expecting something (based on previous products) of the game before they bought. Which isn't a way to judge any new product.

The information on what Typhoon was, has been out there for a while. It has been HERE and other sites. The game was never hyped up or sold as something it wasn't.

That's not to say that Typhoon is perfect and that I wasn't dissapointed by certain elements of the game (the wait between flights). But like any sim...thing needs to be tweaked a bit and polished a little.

#560623 - 06/04/01 12:57 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Uroboros:
(as for this TAW following. Well where exactly has this following been. Seems to have been hiding. Then someone mods the resolution to 1024x768 and they all come out of the woodwork. Like suddenly it became OK to like the game. Too bad this all this TAW love didn't happen after the game was actually released. Might have helped it live longer. And yes..I've owned TAW from day one and thought it was great back then)


This following for TAW has been where its always been; On peoples Hard drives. Who says that people didn't 'love' TAW when it was actually released? The people who bought Falcon 4.0?...Probably. It's a pity people listened to them would be a more accurate statement.

As for TAW not living longer. Seems to be quite healthy today from what I've seen recently.

Even if people are just discovering TAW now, does it matter? As long as they're enjoying it now is what matters.

The beauty about TAW is its appeal. You can fly it for fun aka Typhoon, or you can tactically plan your missions and push buttons in the cockpit if you so desire... It appeals to all.

"Wherever possible, throughout the various aspects of the F22 and AWACS aircraft, detailed functionality has been automated to make the task easier for the novice pilot or commander, but without compromising the wishes of the dedicated flight sim fan for ultimate control. Many parts of our product will look after themselves if the user wishes to concentrate on the action. However, when you are ready, the detailed functions are there for you to explore and enjoy."

-DiD statement about TAW.

Uroboros, I'm glad you liked TAW back then, I hope you still like it today... I do


------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#560624 - 06/04/01 02:24 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
I agree with you on TAW..it's a great game. I still have it on my hard drive and played it up to to the time Typhoon came out and will surely go back to it again. Too bad that desire to mod the game (which is a good thing); hadn't happened much earlier in the game's life.

But if Typhoon does turn out to be DID's swan song; then I hope that this love for TAW lives on.

#560625 - 06/04/01 02:38 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Vaider-Raider Offline
Junior Member
Vaider-Raider  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally posted by *Hengist*:
Vaider,

I was expecting Typhoon to carry on the tradition of a feature packed title. However saying that, I was shocked when they released Wargasm.


quick Q... who published Wargasm? DiD & Infograms? DiD & Rage?

would you have been equally as 'shocked' if you hadnt played wargasm before playing Typhoon?

take care
Ian.

#560626 - 06/04/01 03:01 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


i think this pigeon holeing of sims as hardcore and softcore and the users of such , is and always has been so misleading !

i love TAW , and I LOVE age , AND ROCK ON MODDING etc
i have never played TAW properly , by that i mean i have mission dabbled , and i fly it for fun , almost arcade actually !

i get up in the sky and have fun and do some serious damage to the virtual world etc
beauty of taw is that it has different modules that appeal to different users , awacs , campaign x 10 etc

i have said in previous threads my gripes re TYPHOON and MY love of TAW etc , and i have also said , TAW can be light arcade , medium or hard core !

I have flown a number of hardcore sims , dumbed down for arcade fun , FALCON4 , JANES F18 and others - thats there beauty - they are scaleable for all tastes !

and no doubt in the future i will approach LOMAC and FALCON5 , and others in the same play style way !

i am not ashamed to say i even play the namco ace combat series on my playstation 1 , when i want some light simming relief via my big tv !

so my views , and vocalisation over Typhoon can't be taken as some kind of a hard coreist simmers rant , becoz thats not who or what i am !

To me Typhoons flaw is exactly that it is not scalable for the variety of different simmers out there and it has missing essential features , mision editor , too sterile a virtual ground war / units etc , as well as some bugs , usb joystick etc , bad smart cameras etc !

There ssems to be a growing clamour of people who are saying , yep ill play it for a month , or i have shelved it coz , of cutscenes , too much pool playing , too much watching of the bad smart cameras etc etc -

to be brutally frank , i think this is a really sad state of affairs , i want to really love this sim , and to basically be off this board , and be spending hours playing it , not posting - oh i wish x y z !

thats the truth , ideally i would have tonight liked to have been building a mission for typhoon , and then came on here to say , here chaps , heres my kick arse and fun mision i made , give it a fly and have fun !

i really really really hope typhoon gets opened up and enhanced real quick , becoz june 15 is approaching for Flashpoint ,and i am convinced after playing 100 demo missions of that , i am going to have my head shoved into that game for a long time !

I already have OFP mission building ideas on paper , and low and behold it comes with the fully featured mission builder , that the developer used to build the game , sweet !


#560627 - 06/04/01 04:30 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
CRASH - SimHQ Offline
Senior Member
CRASH - SimHQ  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
Antioch, CA
Let me clarify a few things:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vaider-Raider:
Ok...

After reading some posts... I've been thinking about this a little. In the constitution there is the big 'freedom of speech' thing right? Isn't there also something in that same bit of paper about the freedom not to speak?


You may need to do a little research here, but a privately held operation makes their own rules ... basically freedom of speech is what the owner allows. That is a plain and simple rule of business. You can be fired from you job for ranting and raving and cursing just like you can be banned from posting here. No difference. This board is a service - a privilege, not a right, abuse the privilege - you lose it. Those who decry freedom of speech are fooling themselves. Add to that that the constitution does not apply to non-US citizens, using that as a crutch alienates about half of our readers.

We will pretty much allow any post that is intelligently thought out and worded. Toss in slander, derogatory comments, cursing ... you get the idea .... poof, that post is gone and the poster is warned.

Now, that being said, lets clear up a few more issues. The issue is not voicing problems or dis-satisfaction with this, or any other product, on these boards. It is the presentation. People want to come here and intelligently talk about the issues, that is fine. But what is happening here is people having fits that TYPHOON is not FALCON. There were never any mis-representations about this. From the start DiD/Rage made it clear that this would not be a "hard-core" simmers game. People that claim they could not find this information really didn't look very hard in my opinion.

Then we have folks that want to throw childish tantrums about this or that not working. That sort of post is not tolerated anywhere on these forums. All sims have bugs, nature of the beast. You can easily list what you have found as a bug without acting like a child.

So, before one more person decides they are "not allowed" to post a negative comment on this board ... stop ... think ... and make sure you are not acting like a 3 year old or bitching about a feature of the game that was never promised or intended.

Let me answer your poll for you:

A: what you thought you paid for

Yep.

B: worth what they paid for

Yep.

C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.

Not really ... even tho I knew what I was buying, Typhoon does not have many qualities I look for in a sim.

(saying that it will/wont be on you hdisk as long as TAW doesnt count... TAW has amassed a following over the years that only the creme of flight sims usually get...

Which is interesting to me. I was involved in the testing of all of the DiD sims thru TAW ... and I thought the ADF/TAW pair was the worst thing they have put out. Then again, I never even tried WARGASM.

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. if so what were you expecting from typhoon?

See above, something like 2000 hours in the EF2K family. And I expected what DiD said to expect from Typhoon ... a "lite" sim for the masses.

2: how long have you had typhoon ?

In one form or another, since before its release.

3: have you completed the campaign ?

Nope, see above answers.

4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?

How you can say those three sims in the same breath is beyond me. They are three seperate levels ... I tend to lean toward the more complex simulations ... I suppose that would be "hard-core" by your definition.

My personal opinion is that I was misled.. either by A: Rage, B: DiD, C: EB Or D: that magazine...

I think you forgot E: Yourself. You expected more than was promised. No offense to printed mags, but this is why the internet is key to purchasing decisions.


------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#560628 - 06/04/01 06:11 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,238
Zero G Offline
Member
Zero G  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,238
Canada
If you guys are looking for more realism from the hardware in Operation Flashpoint then you get with Typhoon then you should be prepared to be disappointed again.

I wanted to add a few things here as well. I don't want people to get the idea that criticisms are not welcome for any reason. I want to come and see if I would like a game here as much as anyone else and if negative comments were not allowed I don't see how one could get that view. I also don't want to have to come wade through piles of garbage posts that are nothing more then bitching about what a developer should have made or could have made. These same ideas can be expressed through constructive criticism.


This kind of comment isn't what we want to see here:
what the hell kind of a crap game models a plane without having real world weapons systems working as they should. I mean how the hell am I to know what launch parameters in the game are if they do not match real life specs. I am going to toss this game if this isn't fixed.

The same idea can be sent with a better post:
I wonder why, if the weapons capabilities were changed for gameplay sake then why were their in game capabilities not listed in the manual. Has anyone figured out what the in game launch parameters are to have reasonable success with them?

The first post invites fights from people who like the game and stands a very good chance of going down the tubes really fast. The second invites discussion on the topic and maybe even a resolution to the issue. People will still understand that you are not happy with a part of the game and maybe they will be willing to work on a fix.

Just a few things to think about, I don't want people feeling uncomfortable posting when they are looking for fixes to a game that needs them.

As far as things go with other forums, like the B-17 2 forum. We are all still getting used to the growth around here, we are trying to keep all the forums stable but we are learning as we go. Sometimes mistakes are made, feel free to e-mail us if you think we are making one.

------------------
Z
Combat Helo
zerog@simhq.com


Z
#560629 - 06/04/01 01:54 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


re flashpoint , after playing 100 web demo missions i know what to expect thanks , and its sweet !

i am not a hard coreist , im a gamer and a virtual world explorer - hey i like that its catchy

i dislike typhoon in its current form , not becoz it too arcadey or light , but because it is too sterile , with not enough player options , the main one for me - no ability to make my own missions !

am i not the kind of gamer / simmer the sim was made for,- a non hard coreist ??

we can't all be wrong with our feedback on mass , surely ?


#560630 - 06/04/01 02:14 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,238
Zero G Offline
Member
Zero G  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,238
Canada
I know nothiing of EFT, I don't have it. My comments are just based on the way that people are making their points on the boards.

Hey I have the full beta of Op FP, I love it, and the demo is very, very different from the newer builds BTW. Not that this is a bad thing, they just keep making it better. It just sounded like people thought that it was going to be a sim for the hardware part of things, this just isn't the case. It is a great game IMO.

------------------
Z
Combat Helo
zerog@simhq.com


Z
#560631 - 06/04/01 03:57 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


you are a lucky dude ZERO G !

I am camping down at EB on the night before 15th June for my copy for sure

i got my tent / sleeping bag and calor gas burner , and a pack of sausages at the ready , must remember to prick them - don't want any hot fat a flying !

can't wait to play the game , then tinker with the full OFP mission builder !


#560632 - 06/04/01 05:14 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good idea a poll.

how many of you reading this can honestly say that what they bought was:

A: what you thought you paid for

Yes and no.

B: worth what they paid for

Yes

C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.

No. I am quitting, I have 1-2 hours at night to fly, if I am not working, and I just can't spend half of that time waiting for a mission to be generated. The good part is that even if the mission is generated often it does not make sense. Example, I have enemy units few miles from an AB and the generated mission sends me on a CAP patrol over a zone where there is no enemy presence. What is a dynamic campaign worth if the generated missions are so shallow? I prefer a scripted mission designed by a human mind, full of traps and danger. A la J.F/A-18. Look at Matt Wagners Wallahalla campaign, or at the mission designed by "ZAMBO " a fighter pilot, those are really good stuff! Not those "supply ( ??!!) missions where you fly ove dozens of enemy tanks to escort an helicopter ( !! ) deep in enemy territory. Hallo?

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. if so what were you expecting from typhoon?


TFX, EF2000, EF2000 Tactcom, ADF, TAW.

The same immersion, style, realism present in EF 2000, the dynamicity of TAW , the fun of ADF.

2: how long have you had typhoon ?

Since 19 of May

3: have you completed the campaign ?

No, I abandoned one after 2 hours of REAL TIME waiting for a mission to be generated at 22:00 of DAY 3

I am flying another one, I am at DAY 2 20:40 not much going on ( settings are on difficulty 3 )

4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?

Jane's F/A-18 is "the sim" in my opinion. I also love Falcon and Flanker.
EF 2000 was an HC sim back then, still with a very high fun factor.Because you have control!
I do like HC sims, but I enjoyed also USAF for a while.
A sim does not need to be complicated to be a good sim, a fun one to play I mean. The immersion factor is the most important thing, along with the sensation that you are in control of the game, not the other way around ( see Typhoon)
or that at least you have AMAZING graphics, see USAF.

I knew that EFT would have been a lite sim, and that was ok.

I was jus expecting a lot more control, a la TAW for example.

but that's history.

As someone said " EFT is already a dead horse"

I just hope that the add-on will revive it, otherwise...well there are so many good sims around, and so little time !

have fun.

-.-

#560633 - 06/04/01 05:21 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
It is what I thought I paid for,
Its worth what I paid for,
and I plan on playing it for a long time.....for a simple reason, it sort of grabs me and says play me! I dont need 1000 keys to kill something!

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560634 - 06/04/01 06:02 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Vboy

How many other sims do you have?


-.-

#560635 - 06/04/01 06:24 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
Right then? You want all ever owned? or just the resent ones?

on the AMIGA 1200:
F-15 Strike Eagle II
MIG-29
Gunship
M1 Tank Platoon

and a hell of a lot of others I can't remember!

On the PC:
DID Super EF2000
Jane's AH-64D
Jane's Longbow 2
Jane's Fighters Anthology
Jane's F-15
Jane's F/A-18
Jane's USAF
Falcon 4.0 (eFalcon 1.09)
M1 Tank Platoon II
Rowans Battle of Britain
Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator
Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator II
Enemy Engaged Apache Havoc
Enemy Engaged Comanche Hokum
DID Eurofighter Typhoon

Oh, and I like to play on EA Superbike 2001, if you like the sense of speed, this thing WILL give it to you!

Joysticks owned:
Microsoft Precision Pro
Microsoft Force Feedback 2
Suncom F-15 Talon
Suncom SFS Throttle
CH Products CH PRO Pedals

and a headache after changing cables....also currently saving up for TM Cougar

And I DO like playing Typhoon


------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560636 - 06/04/01 07:23 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow ValleyBoy! That's a collection!

Ok your opinion then is a very reliable opinion...in my opinion !

speaking of EFT, the thing that really kills it is the wait bethween one mission an another, and the default loadout.

I just hope Steve is going to fix that, I love the Eurofighter, so I want to keep flying this sim,let's hope for the best!

and since you started it here is my collection:

F19 (Microprose)
Gunship! (MP)
Chuck Yaeger aerial combat
TFX (DID)
EF2000(DID)
EF2000 TACTCOM (DID)
F22 ADF (DID)
Comanche 3
TAW (DID)
Jane's LongBow
Jane's LongBow Flashpoint Korea
Jane's F15
Jane's USAF
Jane's F/A-18
Jane's M1A1
Jane's 6881 H/K
Jane's Fleet Command
Falcon 4 (MP)( all patches and add- ons)
Flanker 2 ( to 2.5) ( SSI)
MiG Alley (Rowan)

And many other games...

Sticks:

Thrustmaster CH
Thrustmaster CH PRO
Logitech Wingman Interceptor

SYS
AMD 1.2@ 266
GeForce 2 DP_ 64Mb
HD IBM 30GB
512MBPC133
WinME/2000

Lock, roll, dive!

-.-

#560637 - 06/04/01 08:31 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 420
Hatch Offline
Member
Hatch  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 420
Orlando, FL USA
how many of you reading this can honestly say that what they bought was:

A: what you thought you paid for
Yes. Andy was pretty clear describing it. Actually, no surprises.
B: worth what they paid for
Yes. I have had more than a few "sweaty palms" moments.
C: plan on playing without addon for the forseeable future.
Probably a few times. I can't play it online due to some PC issues with my DSL/Network. Otherwise, I'm sure that would increase its longevity.

1: Did you play D.i.Ds games before Typhoon.. Yes
if so what were you expecting from typhoon?
Pretty much what it is. Again, I thought Steve and Andy represented what it is pretty well.
2: how long have you had typhoon ?
Since about 1 week from its release.
3: have you completed the campaign ?
Alas, no. My wife and I are expecting our first child and she is laid up with morning sickness. Getting in flight time is difficult.
4: counting TAW/EF2000/Falcon4 and the likes as a 'heavy sim' would you say that you were a litesim fan or a heavy sim fan?
I actually like both types.
I would say that F/A 18 is probably my favorite "heavy" sim.
I do like EECH, though, which many would qualify as a lite-moderate sim. As stated earlier, I really enjoy the campaign aspect of the sims.

As for Op Flash, I played the demo and think it will be a great boost to the first person sim genre. Love the fact that 1 or 2 bullets can end it for you.

#560638 - 06/04/01 11:10 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
My opinion is that your opinion in my opinion is a very good opinion in someone elses opinion
Yep....that waiting is a bummer.....
Talking of Superbike has given me a sudden urge to ride a Ducati.....in a game of course! I think I would die on a real one! The first lampost I come accross would be my last, SPLAT!



------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560639 - 06/04/01 11:25 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey ValleyBoy , you are touching my Italian heart here

go http://www.ducati.com

enjoy the Monster.....ROAR ( an actual wav file!)

I had a blast with Motocross Madness 2, the Demo, and waiting to see the price of the game go down before buying it, hey I can spend 70$ on a jetSim, but not more than 20 on ANY other game

Actually I think that may be the right time for a copy of Colin MC Rae 2 rally too....Hummm

I see a CD sneaking in tonite, another black op against the WSF ( Wife Security Forces )

I know, I know, It's bad. But I am 35 and...I am addicted to sims! And yes! I've done that before !

-.-

Long life to the Sim!

#560640 - 06/04/01 11:36 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
Well, I can dream of owning one..........
I cant actually ride at the moment....or drive for that much! I have been on a back of a Kawasaki ER-5 @ 90 MPH and I thought I was going to die....well we were going round a corner at the time...all I know is that my friend was glad that I could lean into corners properly.....or it would have been SPLAT! and I have only ever driven a 4 tonne truck when at an Army thing for kids...and my brothers car. Though I am going to attempt to do a direct access course over the summer when my parents are away! I already own a motorbike helmet......I may as well get the rest of it!
Hmmmm my ultimate bike IS the Ducati 996....there is just something about that engine note that says "race me! I dare you!"

VVVVVVRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!



------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560641 - 06/04/01 11:46 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


LOL! Valleyboy!


I already own a motorbike helmet......I may as well get the rest of it!


LOL!!


#560642 - 06/05/01 03:40 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I bought the game and I live in USA. If you like to buy it visit the following web site (I buy 99.9% of my games through them)

http://www.compuexpert.com

I have posted my notes, look under 'what I like and dislike about Typhoon'.

See, I played DID games before and my most favorite of theirs was TAW. At those times, the graphics of the TAW's enviorment alone was very hard to beat.

Typhoon follows their legacy in being ahead with such graphical implementations. The game play, honestly, could do some improvements. BUT it is nothing close to what negative others are screaming here.

See, let me tell you another thing. Pick any article, magazine or such and tell me how many sims are in pipeline? You'll be able to count them by fingers on just one hand. By this I do not mean to say that every sim that comes out we should jump on it and grab it. What I am saying is that we need to have more flexibility when judging the very hard to get sims.

I strongly wish that all those cry babies here go and play Counter-Strike or something like that. Hey! IT IS FREE FOR YOU ALL!

I will support the sim community, and will purchase their games if it gets at least couple of positive reviews. Typhoon got more than that. I give Typhoon 4 stars (5 being best)

------------------
The best Pilot is the one that lives to fight another day

[This message has been edited by colt51 (edited 06-04-2001).]

#560643 - 06/05/01 07:10 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by colt51:
I strongly wish that all those cry babies here go and play Counter-Strike or something like that. Hey! IT IS FREE FOR YOU ALL!


Ooh look an insult. However this guy's also being positive about Typhoon.

I wonder if he'll get a warning about this?

I wonder if I'll get a warning for this?

Who knows?



------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#560644 - 06/05/01 11:12 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


hey that insult was like being savaged by a dead sheep !

bahhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!

munch mumch - oh how tasty this fresh green grass is !

lol

i have heard of x men , men in black , but i really really hate YES men !

Bro , everyone here on his forum has paid for a boxed copy of TYPHOON , we are allowed to give feedback , the reason is that alot of it is negative , is becoz of the way the game was made !

No doubt if / when its fixed / patched / opened up , most of us here are decent enough folks , we will no doubt say thanks to Steve and co , and hopefully rave about , how sweet TYPHOON is after fixing -

Jesus , i just want a mission builder and smarter smart view - then im a happy bunny - im easily pleased !

as for your we must buy all sims becoz only 5 in the works - i say poppy cock !

let me think whats coming , F5 , IL2 , LOMAC , FS2002 , mmmm a few more no doubt - but i have no doubt they will all probably have merits ,

but each product is judged upon its own merits , and NO we don't all have to buy and support them ,if they turn out to be sub standard !

#560645 - 06/05/01 12:14 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Online biggrin
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Online Biggrin
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
you forgot a point...
counterstrike sucks, TFC is for real man

#560646 - 06/05/01 02:08 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 583
Sitting Duck Offline
Member
Sitting Duck  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 583
Bergen, Norway
Boy! Lot's of passion om this forum...

I do not own Typhoon, and based on what I've read here I will not buy it either. (Loved Super EF2000...).

Forums here at SimHQ are great, as you can get the feel for a game beforehand, and judge weather it's good or bad. Based on this I'll pass on B17 2, even if WW2 propsims are my favorite.

Now to my main point: is it not dangerous to make "posting rules" that say that either your posting is positive in spirit, or forget about it...? This may be misunderstood by "fans" of the game, in that any negative posting is against the "rules" of the forum, and that the offendor therefore is a prime candidate for live bait...

In my opinion moderators should remain ABSOLUTLY neutral. If someone uses colorful language showing dissatisfaction over a game that seems to be flawed (and has just used hard earned money to buy it), so be it.

What should NOT be allowed is obscene (no spell check, sorry!) language, or personal attacks, by anyone, regardless of point of veiw.

I admit though, that the line between "coloful language", and generaly unnacceptable behavior (hidden insults, sarcasm, etc.) is a thin one.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll put my helmet on and take cover...

[This message has been edited by Sitting Duck (edited 06-05-2001).]

#560647 - 06/05/01 03:09 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


In my opinion moderators should remain ABSOLUTLY neutral.

What should NOT be allowed is obscene (no spell check, sorry!) language, or personal attacks, by anyone, regardless of point of view.


Yes, I think what we should be aiming for here is 'constructive criticism'.

Remember, the folks at DID have a put a lot of effort into this project. All the developers I've ever met are passionate about their work and put in hundreds of extra hours to get their products shipped.

Software development, like most endeavours, is a resource and time-constrained pursuit. Many people bitch about why X or Y game is late, and then moan when it's not perfect. The folks at DID, and every software house, are human. They have lives, this is their job, and they work damned hard at it.

I would say, go ahead and post what you like BUT be polite and constructive :-) Even when I tear apart a game in a review, I provide solid reasoning and suggested remedies.

So let's support them by continuing to provide useful feedback, which I believe the folks on this forum are doing in abundance :-) And that does not mean saying 'yes' to everything ;-) I certainly do not trust anyone who agrees with me the whole time, you never know when they're lying!!!

Thanks for listening :-)
Kenji

[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 06-05-2001).]

#560648 - 06/05/01 03:27 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


A magazine review is pointless since it is *one* person's couple-of-hours-fly-about....The big picture is made up of a majority don't you agree?

I have to disagree with you there - I have to defend my profession, right!!!

I DO agree that there are some magazines that take that stand. However, I've never agreed to work on one like that. I spend a minimum of 50-100 hours for every game I review. I've spent a lot more than that playing Typhoon since I received the Beta last Autumn. And I've loved every minute of it. Well apart from waiting between missions ;-)

Reviews are one person's view of a product. Sure. But I, like many others, take this job seriously. A review should give you enough to make an informed choice for purchasing a game. What an experienced reviewer can give you is perspective. I've reviewed many, many flight sims. Bad ones as well as good ones. 'Lite' and 'hardcore' ones. Therefore I can bring that experience to bear when considering the latest sim. It puts me in a better possition to assess a game, and its suitability to different audiences. Ultimately, the reader wants to know if they should buy the game. The worst reviews in the world are ones that do not give an opinion, but sit on the fence. 'This game will suit fans of the genre' is about the most uninformative conclusion you can give to a review.

Everyone is different, reviewers included. My suggestion is to check the Byline of reviews you read. Find out whose opinions you share, and who you do not agree with. Then you will know who to trust. I do my best to be objective, but I know what I like, and that might not be what you like. But diversity is a wonderful thing :-)

Cheers folks,
Kenji
http://www.gamespot.co.uk and
http://www.pcpilot.net

#560649 - 06/05/01 04:32 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Valleyboy,

First of all, I'm dismayed to see your extensive library doesn't include F22TAW

Secondly, why can't you ride a bike yet? Is it about age? If it is, a have a couple of bikes that are probably older than you are! I have a 1981 Honda CB900F2 (this used to be my 'everyday' bike) and a 1980 Ducati 500Desmo (this was my 'baby' that I loved pampered). Both are now in need of a good overhaul, and even though they are hardly ever used I will never sell them - too many memories.

I have the EA Superbike Demo (one track, one bike ) and it's great - I specialy like the 'P' button

One last thing; how the hell do you remember how to fly that many sims? I only use 3, and even that gets confusing.

Die Hard

#560650 - 06/05/01 04:49 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
CRASH - SimHQ Offline
Senior Member
CRASH - SimHQ  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
Antioch, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Sitting Duck:
Now to my main point: is it not dangerous to make "posting rules" that say that either your posting is positive in spirit, or forget about it...? This may be misunderstood by "fans" of the game, in that any negative posting is against the "rules" of the forum, and that the offendor therefore is a prime candidate for live bait...


Please reread my post. I specifically addressed this type of comment. The danger lies in mis-interpretation. My post should have clarified any previous posts that may have misled you.

There is no rule in effect that says negative posts are against the rules. There is no rule like that ANYWHERE on these boards. It just happens that many of the "negative" posts were so poorly written and ilconcieved in their delivery that they breached, or nearly breached, other rules of this board. Frequently posts were written, apparently, specifically to incite "flame wars". It is quite possible to voice your opinion without insulting someone else's opinion.

As far as moderators remaining neutral, my staff here pretty much is when it comes to posts. We all agree and understand that everyone has the right to voice their opinions as long as they do so withint the guidelines of our forums. When we moderate, it is not to make sure you agree with us, but to make sure the poster is following the boards rules. We fully expect our readers to have differing opinions. But to expect a staff member not to voice their own opinion, my god - that is what we do here - review and give our opinions, in support or to debate against a poster is unrealistic.

------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html

[This message has been edited by CRASH - SimHQ (edited 06-05-2001).]


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#560651 - 06/05/01 04:50 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
Well, Back in the days of F-22 and TAW, the PC in my house was a P-133 with a voodoo 2, and when looking at minimum specs.....I decided not to risk it, so bought Longbow 2........but when I got my Pentium III 500 MHz, TAW was not to be found no more I have asked and asked people at Game and EB if they can get it but the same old answer....nope!
The reason I dont ride yet isn't because of age(Im 21)......it's parents......they have said that if I get a bike then I shall have to move out......so I am going to do a direct access in the summer.....get a proper job....and move out and get a BIG(ish) bike!
and probably hit the first lampost outside the shop! But atleast I shall be a happy man in those very few seconds before hitting the thing!
At the moment I have ten of them games on my HDD, use to be 11 until this morning....F/A-18 has gone ga ga on me, won't uninstall, wont install....so it's just there taking up space

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!

[This message has been edited by valleyboy (edited 06-05-2001).]


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560652 - 06/05/01 05:40 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
Vaider-Raider Offline
Junior Member
Vaider-Raider  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
I strongly wish that all those cry babies here go and play Counter-Strike or something like that. Hey! IT IS FREE FOR YOU ALL!

Colt... I never asked for your tears little one.. just a humble request to post your overall opinion.. not the reasons that make up that opinion.

This was a poll once *G*

I'll say no more *gglz*

take care
Ian

[This message has been edited by Vaider-Raider (edited 06-05-2001).]

#560653 - 06/05/01 06:27 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


sorry bro , but the poll was too long winded - i kinda got bored and lost in the middle

keep it simple -

like

qu- do you want fries with that ??

now that i can handle , the answer is always yes , and i will have a McFlurry for my pudding thanks for asking !


#560654 - 06/05/01 06:34 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
valleyboy Offline
Member
valleyboy  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,900
Aberdare, Wales, UK
Mines a Steak and Kidney pie and chips....with several helpings of strongbow, vodka & red bull, reef, and smirnoff ice!
followed by an entire day of feeling ill!


------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#560655 - 06/05/01 06:50 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by ktakeda:
A magazine review is pointless since it is *one* person's couple-of-hours-fly-about....The big picture is made up of a majority don't you agree?

I have to disagree with you there - I have to defend my profession, right!!!

I DO agree that there are some magazines that take that stand. However, I've never agreed to work on one like that. I spend a minimum of 50-100 hours for every game I review. I've spent a lot more than that playing Typhoon since I received the Beta last Autumn. And I've loved every minute of it. Well apart from waiting between missions ;-)

Reviews are one person's view of a product. Sure. But I, like many others, take this job seriously. A review should give you enough to make an informed choice for purchasing a game. What an experienced reviewer can give you is perspective. I've reviewed many, many flight sims. Bad ones as well as good ones. 'Lite' and 'hardcore' ones. Therefore I can bring that experience to bear when considering the latest sim. It puts me in a better possition to assess a game, and its suitability to different audiences. Ultimately, the reader wants to know if they should buy the game. The worst reviews in the world are ones that do not give an opinion, but sit on the fence. 'This game will suit fans of the genre' is about the most uninformative conclusion you can give to a review.

Everyone is different, reviewers included. My suggestion is to check the Byline of reviews you read. Find out whose opinions you share, and who you do not agree with. Then you will know who to trust. I do my best to be objective, but I know what I like, and that might not be what you like. But diversity is a wonderful thing :-)

Cheers folks,
Kenji
http://www.gamespot.co.uk and
http://www.pcpilot.net


Oh hell....so what if i say "one *magazine's* opinion...??? That's got you eh

By the way, i'm a PCZone subscriber! lol,lol
Why..?
Because it's cheaper than the rest(2.66 per issue delivered) and at that price i eventualy get a review of the most popular fsims released(well it's better than paying 5 per mag!) +2 CD's.....beat that!?

Oh and they gave Typhoon 85% and recommended it to both hard and lite simmers.

I still state that reading these boards that people post *true* opinions of the game (they bought it and are right to have a say about it!) is still the best way of finding out if the sim is for you or not.

There is no way i would buy 5 mags(or 1) to get an overall percentage or opinion of Typhoon on =25 or there about's

Would you believe everything a car salesman told you at the first garage...........? Thought not

Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#560656 - 06/05/01 07:45 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Excellent post Tracer, well summed up... You hit the nail on the head with that one

------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#560657 - 06/05/01 08:03 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Vaider-Raider:

This was a poll once *G*


lol Vaider,

And there was me thinking it was the wild west with rules for 'some'



------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#560658 - 06/05/01 10:14 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Badboy Offline
Junior Member
Badboy  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
UK
Ok two main points


Firstly, I think there is a big distinction to be made here. There are the main stream printed gaming magazines, for whom flight sims are an occasional burden, their reviews are unfortunately all to often written by people who obviously have no affinity for the genre. Id be very surprised if most of the experienced flight sim pilots here havent long since given up trying to see through the strained wit and clich laden banter you read in them. Of course, most of the people who buy those magazines to learn about flight sims dont know any better, if they did they wouldnt waste their time or money. Of course thats a gross generalisation, and there are some notable exceptions. For example, there was a time when PCGamer in the US had an editor like Denny Atkin who produced excellent flight sim related material, while the UK PCGamer often appeared to have their flight sim reviews written by Unreal Tournament players Admittedly, a contrast that serves to muddy the water.

Fortunately for everyone, there are reviewers who are dedicated to flight sims! Reviewers with wide experience and knowledge who treat their work as a serious responsibility to their readers. It seems that many of them also publish their work here on the Internet and people like Kenji, Denny and our own Dan Crenshaw are just a few of many writers who are actually worth buying a print magazine to read, even though you dont have to. More importantly, unlike car salesman, most reviewers are not motivated by the desire to close a deal and are guided by an unwritten code of ethics that their credibility depends upon. They can always be trusted for an unbiased and scrupulously honest opinion.

In contrast to that, reading these boards is not the best way to judge the quality of a flight sim because many of the posters have an axe to grind. The messages are generally biased one way or another, either due some extreme of disappointment or pleasure in the simulation. Or as we often see, posts may be driven by a desire for patches or perhaps to lobby for additional features. Either way, those arent the best motives on which to base an opinion of a flight sim. This board in particular is a case in point.

Secondly, there are indeed a lot of passionate feelings on these boards, good and bad, rants from both extremes and a good deal more repetition. Of course it could be that the majority of folk here could well have no other motive beyond persistent whining for its own sake, and even though it looks that way, I dont believe it. Despite all the negativity I believe that most of the people here are, or have, enjoyed Typhoon very much. Anyone who didnt probably wouldnt stick around. We all love flight sims and it appears to me that most of the negative messages are little more than cries for change or enhancement. I believe that most folk here are well meaning. However, by posting in a strongly negative manner it is possible that some new users wont see such things for what they really are. There is a risk that the fact you are enjoying a game so much that you are compelled to complain about it, in the hope that it will be changed more to your liking, will be missed.

For those who have a genuine desire for change or enhancement, their objectives are unlikely to be achieved by persuading new users that the game is bad, because a drop in sales is the worst possible incentive for a developer considering further work on a product, so in effect the negative approach becomes self-defeating.

Good things are far more likely to happen when the developer is receiving feedback and suggestions for additional work on their product in a positive and constructive manner. I hope that is what we all really want here?

Badboy


[This message has been edited by Badboy (edited 06-06-2001).]

#560659 - 06/06/01 10:23 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tracer wrote
Would you believe everything a car salesman told you at the first garage...........? Thought not

Hey Tracer, you're dead right, it's like baseball, never swing at the first pitch :-)

If you like PC Zone then great, you've found a magazine that you like, stick with it!

That's my point, try them all, fathom out who shares your opinions and then stick with them. You WILL find that people move around in the magazine industry though, so keep tabs on who your fave reviewers are and follow them. What can happen is if an editor moves they take their favourite staff with them. Be warned! Whoever is at PC Zone now may be at PC Gamer tomorrow!

Definitely don't spend 25 quid on magazines to try to gather all of the opinions. Spend it on the game and make your OWN opinion - and then post it on here :-) If you do it often enough why not try becoming a contributing reviewer on a web site (or mag) somewhere! They're aren't enough dedicated flight sim journalists around :-)

Cheers,
Kenji

#560660 - 06/06/01 12:30 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Gel214th Offline
Junior Member
Gel214th  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Poll Answers:
A: Yes it was what I thought I paid for.
B: Yes it was worth what I paid for.

C: No.
If they do not create an add-on that addresses specific issues and improves the game, then it's life on my hard disk will be very short. Such is the result of not making the sim extensible or including a full featured mission editor.

Part Two:
1: Yes
I expected it to be a light, fun sim.
However, I expected a sort of Roleplaying system with the pilots where perhaps you had points to assign to them.
I did not expect the long waits between missions. I was hoping for a mission editor.
2: About a few days after Hengist
3: No.
Hence the reason I don't feel I can write a review on it. My Suncom F15 Talon trigger button no longer responds. Need a new one.
4: I'm a game fan.And I like flying games.
Hardcore/Softcore is all bull. They're all games. And there are hardcore players of all types of games.


-Gel214th
#560661 - 06/06/01 12:30 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


[i]Badboy wrote...]/i]
. It seems that many of them also publish their work here on the Internet and people like Kenji, Denny and our own Dan Crenshaw are just a few of many writers who are actually worth buying a print magazine to read, even though you dont have to.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Badboy :-) Another guy to watch is Bruce Geryk at Gamespot US. He's a top reviewer who loves his sims.

most reviewers are not motivated by the desire to close a deal and are guided by an unwritten code of ethics that their credibility depends upon. They can always be trusted for an unbiased and scrupulously honest opinion.

In an ideal world this is true. Unfortunately some magazines are less scrupulous. The problem comes with advertising contracts and 'exclusive' deals. For example, exclusive previews, reviews, cover artwork and demos. Games and magazine publishers and their marketing machines are very competitive. Magazine publisher X may strike a BIG deal with games publisher Y, say an advertising schedule for several months across several titles. And not just PC mags, but Playstation, Dreamcast, etc, titles too. The editor of a given mag is then under some pressure to make sure that Y does not get annoyed. If a reviewer submits a particularly poor score to a high profile game from publisher Y then steps may be taken to 'spruce up' the review. This DOES happen and can sometimes explain why there is some discrepancy between reviews in different magazines. Not always, but sometimes. Luckily I have always worked with great editors who have not buckled under the pressure from above.

For example. At PC Gaming World we gave Jedi Knight 3*s, and with good reason. LucasArts were none too pleased as this was a BIG title for them and complained to the magazine. More than that, they withdrew sending us any preview or review material. That put the magazine at a competitive disadvantage, we could not 'feature' LucasArts titles as other mags, who were in favour with LucasArts, could. We had to go the the shops to buy games for review (they're normally sent to us). Our editor, David Kelly, made readers aware of the situation in his following Editorial. We received wholehearted support from our readership, and us reviewers were very happy to see our editor backing us to the hilt.

Our editor has been in the business a longtime (he edited Sinclair User!) and had enough strength to not buckle under commercial pressures. There are lots of good editors like him, but a few who may not be so upstanding.

Another story, at EMAP an angry software marketing man started F***ing and Blinding at another editor, threatening to withdraw all advertising from all magazines because of a bad review. We had security march the guy out the building .

So just be aware that in the cut-throat world of magazines all may not be as it seems. Stay skeptical and remember to re-read reviews after you've had time to assess a game for yourself to see if you agree or not :-) And post on the web to let others know. But remember, coherent arguments carry far more weight than heated, emotional, and rude postings.

They can always be trusted for an unbiased and scrupulously honest opinion.

Okay, so it may seem like I'm shooting myself in the foot with the above comments. On the contrary, many reviews are unbiased and scrupuluously honest. I certainly try to be, as far as is humanely possible. Just be aware that there is a LOT ($billions of dollars$) at stake in the games industry, and not everyone plays by the rules.

Cheers,
Kenji

[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 06-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 06-06-2001).]

#560662 - 06/06/01 07:17 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by tacked:
Tracer wrote
Would you believe everything a car salesman told you at the first garage...........? Thought not

Hey Tracer, you're dead right, it's like baseball, never swing at the first pitch :-)

If you like PC Zone then great, you've found a magazine that you like, stick with it!

That's my point, try them all, fathom out who shares your opinions and then stick with them. You WILL find that people move around in the magazine industry though, so keep tabs on who your fave reviewers are and follow them. What can happen is if an editor moves they take their favourite staff with them. Be warned! Whoever is at PC Zone now may be at PC Gamer tomorrow!

Definitely don't spend 25 quid on magazines to try to gather all of the opinions. Spend it on the game and make your OWN opinion - and then post it on here :-) If you do it often enough why not try becoming a contributing reviewer on a web site (or mag) somewhere! They're aren't enough dedicated flight sim journalists around :-)

Cheers,
Kenji


Nice one mate!

*shock* a sensible reply

Seriously though, when i've had confab's with Journalists etc it normaly end's up with a bit of S*** flinging!

So i stereotypically got my piece in first.......

Your cool mate

Cheers
Tracer

OT: Badboy that's a bit unfair to a lot of simmer's who have paid for this game and are entitled to an opinion about it?
Remember there is a helluva lot of people out there that *do not* get refund's...unlike people like ktakeda
/yourselves who play Beta code or preview it and ultimately have the satisfaction of (literally) throwing it to one side if it's crap!
Magazines can say "Typhoon is utter bollocks...49%" Is that any different from someone paying for a game on the basis of another mags review and being conned into thinking it was great(in his eye's?)
But instead posting his opinion here?

I personally think it's better to come to an unbiased forum and read many posts good/bad to build an overall picture as ktakeda say's.

Quote: "An axe to grind" is pretty unfair comment if they paid for it.
Whereas if it is a review(magazine etc), it can be taken with a pinch of salt! After all magazine's very rarely reply to people whom post an annoyance(say constructive criticism) to them and basically laugh at the poor mug whom bought their mag *and* bought the developer's game!
Many a review i have read and bought the game then thought "what the hell game was he playing/reviewing.. because this certainly wasn't it!"

When it comes to S*** chucking then that's a no-no.
Constructive criticism is a boon!

No game smell's of roses......no matter how hard a developer want's it to But in amongst *poorly* worded criticism there are many improvements that a developer should listen too and take on board?(just cut out the bad bit's

Isn't it funny when you look at it
Amazon.co/com rests it's sales on millions of ordinary people that buy from it doing reviews on *ALL* it's product's?
These are totally unbiased reviews of games everything! Yet they make a profit because people review something and post it up as they see it.....we make our minds by reading it *as* it is.........?


Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

[This message has been edited by Tracer[formerly of CS] (edited 06-06-2001).]

#560663 - 06/06/01 08:49 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Badboy Offline
Junior Member
Badboy  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
UK
Quote:
Originally posted by ktakeda:
Magazine publisher X may strike a BIG deal with games publisher Y, say an advertising schedule for several months across several titles. And not just PC mags, but Playstation, Dreamcast, etc, titles too. The editor of a given mag is then under some pressure to make sure that Y does not get annoyed.



Im very well aware of the many stories of what goes on between publishers and print magazines, even though Ive only written for two, PC Gamer as freelance and Enemy Lock On as their Air Combat Editor. I have always been paid for my work and have been very conscious of the ethics involved. But Ive never experienced any conflict of interest first hand, or been aware of any among the writers Ive worked with However, for anyone interested in finding out a little more about the sort of thing being referred to, take a look at these three articles, it may be an eye opener Or not


http://www.sfweekly.com/extra/plaything/playpen/082797.html

http://www.sfweekly.com/extra/plaything/playpen/090597.html

http://www.sfweekly.com/extra/plaything/playpen/091297.html

For balance, this by way of rebuttal:

http://www.wired.com/news/topstories/0,1287,6785,00.html


There was also an informative, albeit somewhat heated, series of threads generated by this on usenet, that sucked in large numbers of writers at the time, made for interesting bedtime reading Dejavu may have them archived.


Quote:
Okay, so it may seem like I'm shooting myself in the foot with the above comments. On the contrary, many reviews are unbiased and scrupuluously honest.


Which was my point.

However, in my view, print magazines are the wrong place to look for good flight sim reviews. Sadly the good ones are too few and far between and finding that out is likely to cost more than your last few flight sims. My advice to anyone looking for the skinny on their latest sim' desire would be to check out the reviews on the popular sim related web sites, there may be almost as many pitfalls, but in my opinion the media and authors are more transparent, and it doesnt cost you as much to find out who the good ones are

Badboy




[This message has been edited by Badboy (edited 06-06-2001).]

#560664 - 06/07/01 04:23 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by Badboy:
Im very well aware of the many stories of what goes on between publishers and print magazines, even though Ive only written for two, PC Gamer as freelance and Enemy Lock On as their Air Combat Editor. I have always been paid for my work and have been very conscious of the ethics involved.


Nice to hear it Leon....ELO burned me big time!
I waited(as did *many* other's) for an issue ## to appear....a year went past "we're changing printer/publisher" was the excuses! In the end the tossers went t*t's up and kept my subscription money for about 6months worth of mags!!
so here's *one* punter that supported his hobby only for s*** to happen!
Did i get an apologetic letter.........?

You wonder why i don't trust magazine/online reviews?!

Someone get's paid to do it(by the developer)
Whilst the wage payer(games player) get's burned!

Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

[This message has been edited by Tracer[formerly of CS] (edited 06-07-2001).]

#560665 - 06/07/01 08:43 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Badboy Offline
Junior Member
Badboy  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
Nice to hear it Leon....ELO burned me big time!
I waited(as did *many* other's) for an issue ## to appear....a year went past "we're changing printer/publisher" was the excuses! In the end the tossers went t*t's up and kept my subscription money for about 6months worth of mags!!
so here's *one* punter that supported his hobby only for s*** to happen!
Did i get an apologetic letter.........?

You wonder why i don't trust magazine/online reviews?!

Someone get's paid to do it(by the developer)
Whilst the wage payer(games player) get's burned!

Tracer




Tracer,

Sorry to hear you got burned on that one, Im sure you are one of many. I know it will be little consolation, but you have probably read on these boards that when that particular publisher folded, the readers werent the only folk to lose, and Im talking about a great deal more than a 6-month subscription. I know exactly how you feel though I lost a twelve-month subscription twice! Once on PC Ace and again on Debrief when they folded, one in 1996 and the other in 1998. All I can say regarding ELO is that some very good people did their utmost to make the magazine successful. I know that the writers were all good people!

However, the fact that Ive lost money on previous magazines wont make me bitter, or find me calling the owners Tossers. It is almost always a personal disaster for the owner of a business/magazine when it folds and when Debfrief failed Im sure Tom Basham, suffered much greater loss than I did. Id even go as far as to say that if another combat flight sim specific print magazine appears, Ill be among the first to throw a 12 month subscription at it, in the hope it will succeed.

Any way, I hope you have better luck in the future!

Best wishes

Badboy

#560666 - 06/08/01 11:58 AM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Id even go as far as to say that if another combat flight sim specific print magazine appears, Ill be among the first to throw a 12 month subscription at it, in the hope it will succeed.

Gratuitous plug warning

Okay, so who didn't see this coming, but....

Since I've been part of PC Pilot magazine from the start I can tell you that we are trying to offer flight simmers the knowledgeable, in-depth reviews and features that the community deserves.

Since we started over a year ago we've been slowly growing. On the combat side, myself and Len "Viking1" Hjalmarson cover most things. The issue out next week has my more in-depth Eurofighter Review, including a short interview with Don Whiteford at DID (Steve's Boss?!?).

We're already working on the following issue, and I'm waiting for WWII Online and Op Flashpoint to drop through my mailbox. I'll be looking at these from a flight simmers point of view, and not pulling any punches!!!

While we cover a lot of civil flight sims, we try to cover most military ones too. What I like about the mag is that I can write LONG articles. Makes a change from the 1/2 page reviews I've been restricted to on other mainstream games mags

Anyway, http://www.pcpilot.net is where it's at. Money back guarantee and all. The number of dissatsified readers is in single figures still, and that's after 1.5 years We've just started selling in WH Smiths and Forbuoys in the UK too.

Okay, plug over with, sorry about that but maybe you'll like it Stranger things have happened!!! If not, let me know @ kenji@pcpilot.net, and tell me why. We're always looking for feedback as we try to make every issue better than the last.

Advert over with , you can change back channels now.

Whoa, I can feel the flames coming already

Cheers,
Kenji



[This message has been edited by ktakeda (edited 06-08-2001).]

#560667 - 06/08/01 01:32 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Gel214th:
Poll Answers:
A: Yes it was what I thought I paid for.
B: Yes it was worth what I paid for.



lol Gel,

You sure about those first 2 answers??? (I wont go into specifics, but how much did you exactly pay? ).




------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#560668 - 06/08/01 08:39 PM Re: Not a rant (for once..) atleast I'll try really hard *G*  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by Badboy:

Tracer,

Sorry to hear you got burned on that one, Im sure you are one of many. I know it will be little consolation, but you have probably read on these boards that when that particular publisher folded, the readers werent the only folk to lose, and Im talking about a great deal more than a 6-month subscription. I know exactly how you feel though I lost a twelve-month subscription twice! Once on PC Ace and again on Debrief when they folded, one in 1996 and the other in 1998. All I can say regarding ELO is that some very good people did their utmost to make the magazine successful. I know that the writers were all good people!

However, the fact that Ive lost money on previous magazines wont make me bitter, or find me calling the owners Tossers. It is almost always a personal disaster for the owner of a business/magazine when it folds and when Debfrief failed Im sure Tom Basham, suffered much greater loss than I did. Id even go as far as to say that if another combat flight sim specific print magazine appears, Ill be among the first to throw a 12 month subscription at it, in the hope it will succeed.

Any way, I hope you have better luck in the future!

Best wishes

Badboy



Sorry Badboy........hmmm "Tosser's"
I admit i was angry at the time i wrote it

The thing i forgot to quote, was ELO asked those that were due refunds on their subcription to contact them personaly and they would be refunded....well i was one of them....so it rubbed salt in my wounds you see? GRRRRRR! is putting it mildly

That and i was unemployed at the time (money was tight) the wife went beserk when we never got refunded....lesson learned.

Cheers
Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Pride Of Jenni race win
by NoFlyBoy. 04/15/24 12:22 AM
It's Friday: grown up humor for the weekend.
by NoFlyBoy. 04/12/24 01:41 PM
OJ Simpson Dead at 76
by bones. 04/11/24 03:02 PM
They wokefied tomb raider !!
by Blade_RJ. 04/10/24 03:09 PM
Good F-35 Podcast
by RossUK. 04/08/24 09:02 AM
Gleda Estes
by Tarnsman. 04/06/24 06:22 PM
Food Safety and Bad Roommates
by KRT_Bong. 04/04/24 02:16 AM
Incredible historical ironies
by PanzerMeyer. 04/03/24 01:56 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0