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#560444 - 06/02/01 03:03 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Tiger , you have zero credibility ya self becoz your post above brings nothing to the table , negative or positive , about the game / sim TYPHOON , which is what we are all here supposedly discussing !

Your post above is nothing more than a call to a FLAME WAR !


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#560445 - 06/02/01 03:08 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Cnebba

Well written post. And one deserving of serious answers.

>>This environment seems to be getting a little dangerous... How big of a leap is it from chucking folks off the board for breaching the 'dogma' to, say, sending 'round the thought police?...<<

I would hope to avoid that. But this was not a case of anyone's 'dogma' being breached. There were two specific assertions in that post that I found personally insulting. These had nothing to do with Typhoon.

One assertion implied that I might be saying something only to make money. The other implied a certain lack of personal responsibility and self-control. These were out of line...and that's where I draw the line.

SimHQ forum administrators are moderators more than 'owners'. But, every now and then, we step in to keep things going the way we want them to go. We don't put up with flamers, rants, or undue attacks on individuals or other web sites. When this happens, we try to give people fair warning that this will not be tolerated here. I see that as more of an 'advisory' than 'threat'.

>>I think you may have to accept that people want to discuss other aspects of the game.<<

Absolutely...no question about it. That's why this forum is here...to 'discuss' things.

But sometimes this goes beyond my definition of 'discuss'. Here's how I see it. Posts should be made to contribute something positive. They should not be made just to vent. SimHQ has repeatedly said that we do not want that sort of thing on our forums.

Assuming that most of the posters are adults, it should be possible to express dissatisfaction in a manner that invites a positive response. Imagine how Rage people must feel when reading some of this. Do you think they are going to respect extreme language or ignore it? Does the poster think that Rage is going to put in extra work based upon that type of input? I think not.

We are not 'repressing free speech'. When necessary, SimHQ will repress inappropriate, ineffective, abusive, or insulting speech.

My objective is for people like you to come here and post your comments and questions for the purpose of helping others or yourself. Aside from some very obvious exceptions, I hope this forum is doing that.

Andy

#560446 - 06/02/01 03:14 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Tiger

That was a little too adversarial. I know you can find a way to disagree without calling people names.

Andy

#560447 - 06/02/01 03:42 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy

We are not 'repressing free speech'. When necessary, SimHQ will repress inappropriate, ineffective, abusive, or insulting speech.

Please forgive this junior member's foray into this discussion but, I agree wholeheartedly that about the inappropriateness of abusive and insulting 'speech'. I do believe though that the effectiveness of a person's opinion should not be judged so harshly. In my opinion a sense of humour can be identified and can often be tolerated for what it is, an attempt at lighthearted banter. I ask this only because since discovering this board I have spent considerable time here, enjoying educational, communal 'socialising' with people who have a similar interest to mine. I hope I do not have to walk on 'eggshells' each time I post.

#560448 - 06/02/01 03:48 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Andy,
Thanks for the reply... I agree completely that it is much better to frame our expressions of dissatisfaction in a way that invites positive response. So far, I think things have settled into adult debate fairly quickly.

Purely in the interests of learning the 'rules' of an online culture:

1) What is a 'flame war'?
2) What do you mean by 'Rant'... When I use the word, colloqually, I tend to mean an expression of discontent that isn't intended to be structured as a serious argument... But a rant under that definition might very well be full of humour and worth reading for what it is... It certainly shouldn't make personal attacks. I'm unclear if this is the same definition used on BBS's?


Tiger:
You did reply to the wrong person, but, when you state:
Quote:
There goes your credibility!

I would be interested in knowing what you meant. Are you disagreeing with whatever you think my politics are? or are you implying that I haven't seen first hand the more extreme results of our species occaisional repression of free speech?
If it's the former, I don't object, but it would nice to have a properly framed argument to respond to.
If it's the latter, I'm sorry, but I lost childhood friends in the Biafran war, and had to leave the country ... I've done a fair bit of work in this general area since then. Could prove it with photo's/films, but this board isn't really about that. Whatever, but be a little more careful OK? There's a lot more goes off in this world than you have necessarily seen for yourself.

#560449 - 06/02/01 04:30 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by *Hengist*:
We have to step back and think of the service this site gives to people who are undecided as to whether or not to purchase Typhoon... regardless of any associated personal commercial gain that may come from sales.


I make a big effort to give people the benefit of the doubt. You mentioned that you have been drinking, so I hope the implication in your words that anything Andy and I have ever said here has in anyway been guided by financial considerations was unintended! If not, Im sure you can see how we would both be offended.

We are both honourable men, motivated altruistically, with the desire to help others enjoy their gaming as much as we do. We both feel that objective is best achieved by being positive, forward thinking and constructive. We have both worked hard to ensure that the nature of the game was as transparent to potential customers as we could.

Despite the fact that nothing has ever been said to lead anyone to believe that Typhoon would be any different, it seems some folk have managed to foster false expectations, and appear to be extremely vocal and repetitive about their misplaced disappointment.

I firmly believe that most of the posts we are seeing here are born more from the combination of frustration and love of flight sims rather than any genuine hostility, but please people A continuous stream of lament for what might have been is certainly not productive and I know that it has already resulted in some detriment to the Typhoon community.

Typhoon is what it is, the horse is dead already, time to put the whip away!

Lets stop this here!

Now I going to do that S-37 intercept mission again Im having a lot of fun with Typhoon and I wont let these unkind posts stop me

Badboy

#560450 - 06/02/01 04:59 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Badboy i agree with your post almost 100%
the way to end all debate and discussion on Typhoon would be real easy !

If RAGE , i will leave Steve out of this , so again -

if RAGE as a company want TYPHOON to be what it is now , a closed product , with some bugs , then they should publically say so / make a statement to this effect !

Now before everyone jumps down my throat and says it is , its on the shelves etc you paid for it please note this -

i purchased Typhoon based on alot of comments on this board ,and becoz of TAW and the PEDIGREE of the DID & RAGE stable of games !!!!!!!

- part of my disappointment is my own human nature and aspirations , so i am not out to lay blame , or legally sue anyone for maybe my misplaced optimism !!

I have stated my gripes and i have SUGGESTED
possible fixes - see other threads !

I am keeping Typhoon on my HD and the shop copy on my shelf ,in the hope that it gets enhanced ,

BUT frankly if it does not get enhanced i am taking it back for a refund , no threat , just my choice as a customer / gamer and simmer , and NO ,the issue of realism or hardcoreism does not reflect in my game playing psyche .

So in conclusion the way to quell all criticism and debate - is for there to be a definitive and clear cut statement from RAGE - as to TYPHOONS future - bug fixes , game play patches , mission builder , or support community modding
OR NONE OF THE ABOVE ????????

its their call !

I believe these decisions are above Steves head in the echelons of RAGE ,
i feel Steve's commitment to TYPHOON modding etc ,are beyond question , from his posts already on record on this forum !


#560451 - 06/02/01 05:05 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Tiger Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cnebba:
I would be interested in knowing what you meant. Are you disagreeing with whatever you think my politics are? or are you implying that I haven't seen first hand the more extreme results of our species occaisional repression of free speech?


Simple... Anyone who can relate anything in this thread to the activities in "Spanish Inquisition/Belsen/Vietnam and Cambodia/Bosnia" has lost the plot.

I don't give two hoots for your politics. I'm here because I want to talk Typhoon. You would do better to take your bleeding heart somewhere where it's on topic. If I want to discuss that stuff I'll do the same. Meanwhile, in this forum, it is nothing more than blatant flame bait. But I have a feeling that's exactly what you wanted.


Tig


Tiger
#560452 - 06/02/01 05:09 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Tiger Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Tiger

That was a little too adversarial. I know you can find a way to disagree without calling people names.

Andy


Sorry Andy!!

I'm having a great time with Typhoon. It has already given me countless hours of fun and the constant whining really pisses me off sometimes. I'll try to keep it clean.

Tig



[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 06-02-2001).]


Tiger
#560453 - 06/02/01 05:15 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Is EFT going to come out on the ps2?? It sounds perfect for that platform.



[This message has been edited by drew (edited 06-02-2001).]

#560454 - 06/02/01 05:19 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Come on Andy lighten up

Im new to this board, but use aviation boards like pprune & aviators alot, and I have never before seen a moderator get worked up over so little.

Especially Hengist comment about beeing drunk, it was a JOKE
Why get so worked up about it, that you theaten to throw him out , I think thats out of line for a moderator.

About Guru Zeb, he is very provocative initially, but still he tries tbe objective as far as I understand him.

Is it normal to theaten ppl here the first time they get a little too excited ?

Have a nice week-end you guys lets get us some SU-37s and maybe even a goose

#560455 - 06/02/01 05:20 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  
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Tiger Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew:
Is EFT going to come out on the ps2?? It sound perfect for that platform.



Ha, another obvious troll!

Ya need different bait buddy, that's been done to death, you won't get a bite on it.


Tig


Tiger
#560456 - 06/02/01 05:30 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Heh. I guess I'll jump back under the bridge.

Seriously though. I have a ps2 that I bought for programs made "for the masses"



[This message has been edited by drew (edited 06-02-2001).]

#560457 - 06/02/01 05:34 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by 3dfxboy:
So in conclusion the way to quell all criticism and debate - is for there to be a definitive and clear cut statement from RAGE - as to TYPHOONS future - bug fixes , game play patches , mission builder , or support community modding
OR NONE OF THE ABOVE ????????

its their call !

I believe these decisions are above Steves head in the echelons of RAGE ,
i feel Steve's commitment to TYPHOON modding etc ,are beyond question , from his posts already on record on this forum !


Badboy,
I think you have to concede that these are pretty fair and recurrent points.

From what I have read on other threads, it looks as if Steve will open the campaign at the patch level: I, for one, had no idea this was possible before these discussions started. From what I have seen, people started commenting (often initially negatively, but rarely remaining so), and Steve has responded by saying that we will get at least some of what we want... And if it's a patch we won't have to be paying out another 30 for it.

I wouldn't have called that flogging a dead horse.

Some of the threads do start in a fairly repetetive way... Someone new hits on an old 'problem' and puts their comments up... But, when the issues are already addressed, following posts tend to refer people to the right threads, and the discussion moves along. I now have a pretty clear idea of what I want from the next stage of Typhoons development, and I'm interested in hearing the views of others. If the campaign can get opend up with a patch, think of what might get into the add-on? Better if Rage/DiD had a developed set of ideas to work from... And that is what we are beginning to see here.

I think I suggested before (and I'm definately not alone), if the developers start a 'where to go from here' thread, a lot of us would have positive thoughts to add. If it's not going anywhere, fair enough, but we'll shut up quicker if we have a definitive statement to that effect.

#560458 - 06/02/01 05:35 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Tiger , you obviously find it hard to understand the criticisms of the game , like wise i find it incredibly hard to understand how you can blanketly like it so much !

but if you post on forums you have to respect alternative points of views !

put it this way , no one plays a game , or reads a book or watches a movie in isolation -

last week i saw the film mummy returns - i enjoyed it alot , but basically it was a more kick arse , special effects version / rip off of an indiana jones film !

so the people who post their criticiams on here , i can relate to becoz they make their points clearly , and use tangible examples from previous sims , eg TAW etc ,when making their comparisons and arguments etc

No one can really be expected to play TYPHOON in a blinkered environment and not make any criticism of it , i think everything i have read on this forum is generally pretty fair and spot on , and people illustrate their examples well !

Typhoon does not and will not exist in a
vacuum of sims , it shares space with FLANKER 2.5 , FALCON 4 , soon LOMAC & FALCON 5 and many others !

Sims are not dying , they are doing very nicely thankyou , most sims are being modded in some way , usually for the better !

Typhoon , has confused itself in this melee , i would suggest that it should have been a TAW clone , becoz TAW can be both arcade or hard core , the player decides !!

Typhoon is feature lacking , in lots of ways , the virtual world i feel particularly !

Typhoon can still be great , it can still be feature rich , and please both newbie simmers and more experienced players alike, but frankly it needs a lot of work and a sense of direction !

Tiger , if you are really like it as it is , then good for you , no one is trying to convert you , i am pleased you are pleased with its gaming experience ,

please just try to see the alternative point of view , we simmers are passionate and vocal as BADBOY mentions , and we shout out loud and are not afraid to tell it how it is , even if that does upset some people , its nothing personal to anyone , it is what keeps this genre alive and vibrant

all the best to you Tiger , and have fun with Typhoon

#560459 - 06/02/01 05:46 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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What's a 'Troll' anyone?

Sorry Tiger, I don't know what flaming is, so I have no idea if there is a point in there or not? I could get sick of constant personal attacks though.

#560460 - 06/02/01 05:52 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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trolling is like posting to get a response

eg " typhoon suxs - jump on noard with your criticism etc "- that title and me would be considered as a troller & trolling

- above was an example - NOT my view !

A flame war is basically a free for all , where people call each other names , and it gets real nasty !

basically don't troll or flame , best to stay nice to each other and respect each others diverse opinions in a polite arena

hope this helps

#560461 - 06/02/01 06:15 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by 3dfxboy:
hope this helps


It does, many thanks.

So if understand correctly, it's OK to make your points, but we shouldn't be looking for fights. Seems sound... One reason I held off posting on BBS's for so long was concern about that sort of thing.

#560462 - 06/02/01 06:17 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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Quote:


please just try to see the alternative point of view , we simmers are passionate and vocal as BADBOY mentions , and we shout out loud and are not afraid to tell it how it is , even if that does upset some people , its nothing personal to anyone , it is what keeps this genre alive and vibrant

all the best to you Tiger , and have fun with Typhoon [/B]


Im with you on this one, well said.

The bottom line is that this is a commercial environment. It is very rewarding to be able to read what some of the actual developers have to say about constuctive criticism. It may be more rewarding to all concerned to actively encourage lively debate, social interaction and drunken ramblings, if it encourages a community of paying cusotmers.
In my humble drunken opinion of course....hic.

#560463 - 06/02/01 06:34 PM Re: RANT WARNING*** I FEEL SICK !!!!!!  

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This is fact, nothing more or less. I have spent over 200 on flight sims as a direct result of encouragement from Hengist. I have never met hime (or her!). If you included hardware and peripherals to make it all work the amount would be frighteningly more. Please look at Hengists contribution to Mig Ally, which he championed. It is people like H that encourage people like me to part with my hard earned, so please consider this when you have a go at someone who has injected humour whilst admiting to being disinhibited. Hengist, and people like him are for me, good for this genre.

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