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#559123 - 05/17/01 04:17 PM Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Just a quick question to Steve on the apparent "inaccuracy" of some of the weapons in the game.

For example, I have yet to get a Brimstone to hit a target at over 4 nm - they just either hit the ground or drop into the sea - regardless of the height they're launched at.

I believe in real life (like the hellfire missile) they have a range of around 9 nm.

The same goes for the Penguins and the Meteors - the long range missiles will be BVRAAM - and the specs I've seen on websites and through tech info indicate that the long range missile will have a range in excess of 60 nm - I haven't managed to hit anything with them over 27 nm.

If I'm doing something wrong targeting or launch-wise, please tell me, but otherwise, I think that the weapons should be relatively realistic.

Cheers,
Manteau

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#559124 - 05/17/01 04:55 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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Hi Manteau,
I've got this exact problem as well. I have purposely flown within 2miles over an airfield about 6,oooft and pointed the nose down and launched 6 brimstone's at 6 AAA.
Guess what.................yep, None hit!

They all had a clear path to the target's
but none hit.
All impacted about 40ft infront of the AAA.

I had to try and knock-out an advancing column of T-90's about 6 using Brim's and out of six launches i hit 1.........

So i tried another sortie with ALARM's and it happened again 4 launches.........*zero* hit's(all launches were about half-way along the range bar)

"The same goes for the Penguins and the Meteors - the long range missiles will be BVRAAM - and the specs I've seen on websites and through tech info indicate that the long range missile will have a range in excess of 60 nm - I haven't managed to hit anything with them over 27 nm."

Yep i haven't hit much with the Long Medium /Range Meteor's ,they are spoofed probably on average 8 times out of 10 launches. Regardless of what range you launch at and also regardless of angle of attack.
I have attacked at high altitude above the target,nose on,rear on, you name it i have tried it!
The only weapon that bring's much success is the ASRAAM-espec launched about 2 miles from target.

My personal opinion is that the weapon's have been "dumbned down" otherwise you would wipe out the Russian invader's far too easily and quickly?

If you watch the F9 "SmartView", you will also see various attack's from Harrier's etc using CRV-7's/Brim's and ALARM's and the impact of these weapon's is *alway's* over the target or infront of it!-i have yet to see ground attack weapon's on smartcam *actualy* hitting anything

That's after playing into day2 and watching countless hour's of F9 footage.

*OR* is it deliberate to keep us on our toe's? and make it harder??

still, i would like to have some success with weapon's...... Please Steve...

Tracer


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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"



[This message has been edited by Tracer[formerly of CS] (edited 05-17-2001).]

#559125 - 05/17/01 04:59 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Yeah - I've had to fly *directly* over tanks and sams in order to kill them with brimstones. I might as well use cluster bombs.

Even when I do get a direct hit, often nothing happens - the AAA keep firing or something.

I recon they've dumbed (sp?) down the weapons as well.

Cheers,
Manteau

#559126 - 05/17/01 05:56 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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I agree completely.
If I have one gripe (as opposed to minor irritation) with Typhoon it is this. I too have found that the only weapon that hits with any regularity is the ASRAAM. I've started taking 6 of them out all the time. If I had a choice I'd ideally like to hang back and Meteor their backsides before deciding whether to commit to a dogfight.
I fully understand that stuff misses but this is a bit excessive I reckon.

Cheers

#559127 - 05/17/01 06:37 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Silverswift Offline
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Whooo, 9 miles!? Try 5 miles, for the current Hellfire. And that 5 miles is range only. The Pk at that range is probably right next to zero. I could see the current Hellfire going a little longer given the altitude advantage of a fixed wing bird, but 9 miles is stretching it, me thinks. Still, with any missle, at it's extreme range, the Pk goes down to almost 0% on a moving target. Look at the AIM-54. It has a range of 126 miles. What do you think it can hit at that range? A drone of course, flying straigt, slow, and level. The real range for the Phoenix is probably closer to 40 miles (with about a 75%pk on a fighter), maybe 75-90 for a TU-160 (with about a 50% Pk) or something like that. Still pretty good. A 50 caliber round will go about 4 miles. Effective up to about 2 miles (the accuaracy at that range is the bitch though) At 3.99 miles, you can catch it with a baseball glove.

[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-17-2001).]


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#559128 - 05/17/01 07:17 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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Silverswift, i'm *within* 2 mile's of the target(visual in the game and it's still missing.........short of flying the bird into the target(s)! it's quite depressing watching them all miss

Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#559129 - 05/17/01 08:15 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverswift:
Whooo, 9 miles!? Try 5 miles, for the current Hellfire. And that 5 miles is range only. The Pk at that range is probably right next to zero


http://eurosatory.janes.com/day2_brimstone.shtml

According to Janes, the hellfire has a range of 8 nm, and the Brimstone should have a range of 10 nm.

Cheers,
Manteau

#559130 - 05/17/01 09:34 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Silverswift Offline
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Cheers! I got Jane's saying 8000m for the AGM-114 A-C variants, the Lasers. 'bout 5 miles. But I read the link, just as in EF-T, the radar ones probably got an edge. (Still me thinks 10 miles for the current versions is stretching it. They just don't have enough fuel. But you can't argue with Jane's). However, I can see being dissappointed about a 2 miles range off a fixed wing from altitude.

[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-17-2001).]


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#559131 - 05/17/01 09:45 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverswift:
Cheers! I got Jane's saying 8000m for the AGM-114 A-C variants, the Lasers. 'bout 5 miles. But I read the link, just as in EF-T, the radar ones probably got an edge. (Still me thinks 10 miles for the current versions is stretching it. They just don't have enough fuel. But you can't argue with Jane's). However, I can see being dissappointed about a 2 miles range off a fixed wing from altitude.


precisely - I don't really care either way - 5 miles would be good in Typhoon, as it's currently less than 2 miles.

Cheers,
Manteau

#559132 - 05/18/01 01:24 AM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Andy Bush Offline
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keep working at it! The Brimstone is a good weapon...just don't fire it out of parameters.

Andy

#559133 - 05/18/01 08:09 AM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
keep working at it! The Brimstone is a good weapon...just don't fire it out of parameters.

Andy


Well what are the parameters?

I'm at around 6,000 feet behind the hovercrafts around 5 nm away, and they ALL fall into the sea - the same from wingmen...

Cheers,
Manteau

#559134 - 05/18/01 08:47 AM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Uroboros Offline
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Yeah..I'd like to know that too. It sux having to get THIS close to tanks (with Brimstones) that will open fire on on in a blink of an eye.

I fire a bunch of them at 3 tanks and destroy one if I'm lucky. This of course means I have to turn around for another shot and risk getting shredded to bits.

[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-18-2001).]

#559135 - 05/18/01 01:31 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Andy Bush Offline
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hehehe...

Sorry, on this I've said about all that I'm going to at this point! The Strategy Guide will cover this and will include approach tactics. If Leon and I told all now, what good would the Guide do?

We can't give away for free something that Rage is paying us for! In any case, my objective was to blunt some of the criticism that I thought was not quite fair.

For certain, the game AI is not going to make weapons delivery like 'shooting fish in a barrel'. This isn't the way it is in RL, and Typhoon should be no different.

Andy

#559136 - 05/18/01 01:38 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Uroboros Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
hehehe...

Sorry, on this I've said about all that I'm going to at this point! The Strategy Guide will cover this and will include approach tactics. If Leon and I told all now, what good would the Guide do?

We can't give away for free something that Rage is paying us for! In any case, my objective was to blunt some of the criticism that I thought was not quite fair.

For certain, the game AI is not going to make weapons delivery like 'shooting fish in a barrel'. This isn't the way it is in RL, and Typhoon should be no different.

Andy


Then bring that damn guide on; will you?!!!

But seriously..if you can give us useful vital info..I'll pay for it.

#559137 - 05/18/01 01:48 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
hehehe...

Sorry, on this I've said about all that I'm going to at this point! The Strategy Guide will cover this and will include approach tactics. If Leon and I told all now, what good would the Guide do?

We can't give away for free something that Rage is paying us for! In any case, my objective was to blunt some of the criticism that I thought was not quite fair.

For certain, the game AI is not going to make weapons delivery like 'shooting fish in a barrel'. This isn't the way it is in RL, and Typhoon should be no different.

Andy


I've no problem with that - but I have got a problem with the range bar in Typhoon being completely inaccurate, and the manual giving no details on how to fire the weapons.

The original EF2000 manual was amazing - it gave you all the info you needed. The Typhoon manaul just gives you vague info on each weapon - the only range given is for the ASRAAM.

I also don't think we should have to purchase a Strategy Guide just to know how to use the weapons - Rage are making a big point of how easy and accessible Typhoon is - I'm not saying that every weapon fired should hit its target, but the current situation is rediculous.

Cheers,
Manteau

#559138 - 05/18/01 01:54 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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Andy, the tank's/AAA are *opening fire on me* i'm that close!

The Brim's/ALARM's are *still* thunking into the scenery!

Your telling me they would send a xxx million pound plane down the barrel of a couple of a hundred thousand pound AAA within 2 miles and it would still miss..........BUT the AAA doesn't............hmmmmm

Yout talking bull Andy -sorry but your quote "For certain, the game AI is not going to make weapons delivery like 'shooting fish in a barrel'. This isn't the way it is in RL, and Typhoon should be no different." doesn't wash when i *can't* hit a NON-MOVING target within 2miles clear visibility at altitude.......................this needs fixed!
It's meant to be a lite sim where the player has fun? This is seriously dampening the game play and take's the crap out of the Typhoon as a weapon's platform...if we go along the RL road???

Just because Iceland is *smaller* and therefore can't hold a large amount of ground/air unit's the AI has certainly been dumbed down so that the (more astute) player doesn't wipe out the threat's before it materialises.

I fly alway's with a "mix" of weapon's for that reason. *IF* those weapon's that i had fired hit home i would have captured back territory that i had lost and also stopped a helluva lot of advancing unit's that had captured my bases.....but as it is well over 90% of my ordnance has missed. Is that RL Andy? Where 8 out of 10 Long Range Meteor Launche's miss??

Tweak it at least a small amount Rage?

Tracer

------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#559139 - 05/18/01 01:57 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Well, I don't want to sound snotty, but we should not have to pay extra to know how to shoot the friggen weapons.

#559140 - 05/18/01 02:02 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Well, I don't want to sound snotty, but we should not have to pay extra to know how to shoot the friggen weapons.


Yeah - my points exactly - Sorry Andy, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to get hold of all the info I can in terms of tips on Typhoon (I won't use other sources) and make them available for FREE.

You want us to purchase guides that *might* tell us we have to get within 2 nm of a target with a Brimstone in order to kill it when it is *blatently* obvious that Brimstones in real life have a range of at least 7 nm.

Nice one.

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 05-18-2001).]

#559141 - 05/18/01 02:04 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  
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Andy Bush Offline
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>>I also don't think we should have to purchase a Strategy Guide just to know how to use the weapons - Rage are making a big point of how easy and accessible Typhoon is - I'm not saying that every weapon fired should hit its target, but the current situation is rediculous.<<

I know it can be frustrating to not hit a target...it was in RL too! In Typhoon, you are not going to get a 100% Pk on every shot. On the other hand, you are not going to miss every time, either. I agree. Some targets are tough. Some weapons are much less effective than others. It may well be that this is a gaming input intended to drive up the element of unpredictability and, thereby, increase the challenge.

I don't recall that we ever said the game would be easy to win with...I think all Leon and I ever said was that the game would be easier to get into. Once engaged, we said over and over again that you were going to have to work for your kills. Reduced avionics, automated systems..these don't necessarily mean no-brainer game play!

Keep at it. Some ways are better than others. Check your difficulty level. Don't get caught trying to force a square object into a round hole! And above all...have fun!

Andy

#559142 - 05/18/01 02:10 PM Re: Question on fixing the weapon problems...  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
[BKeep at it. Some ways are better than others. Check your difficulty level. Don't get caught trying to force a square object into a round hole! And above all...have fun!
[/B]


I've tried flying at 30,000 feet 3 miles from target, directly pointing at the target, and I get misses.

I've tried coming in low at 500 feet 2 miles from target - misses, but admittedly I have had a hit once or twice - but this is suicide coming in so close and low to kill a target.

I've tried from 5,000 feet 5 nm from target - misses.

I've tried launching directly DOWN on the target - misses.

These are with T-90 tanks FFS.

The only time I can remember hitting anything from over 3 nm away was the ekranoplanes at 4 nm from behind - and this was 30% PK - and they're running along at 375 knots.

Cheers,
Manteau

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