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#558926 - 05/15/01 09:41 PM D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I figured this might as well be a little more organized.

Anyone who would like to see a D3D or OpenGL update for EF2000 Ver 2.0 (US) or SuperEF2000 Graphics+ (Europe), please voice your approval below!

Steve Hunt, any input would be welcome! I believe this would be very beneficial for the marketing of Typhoon. Perhaps you guys could insert an opening screen or banner into EF2000 advertising Typhoon as "the next generation of EF2000" or something like that!

It sounds like a win-win situation!! Heck, the graphics compatibility update is all you need to do for this brilliant sim to move it into the next century! And we all saw how quickly you guys accomplished this with the 3dfx fix for Typhoon!!

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#558927 - 05/15/01 09:48 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Ehmm..no..doesn't make much sense dude.


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#558928 - 05/15/01 09:51 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
It sounds like a win-win situation!! Heck, the graphics compatibility update is all you need to do for this brilliant sim to move it into the next century! And we all saw how quickly you guys accomplished this with the 3dfx fix for Typhoon!!


I would like to see an updated EF2000 too, but I don't think it would a simple job to just re-write the graphics engine - it would probably be easier to start from scratch - things have changed a lot from 1995/6.

Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does, I'd pay for it.

Cheers,
Manteau

#558929 - 05/15/01 10:00 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Fishbed,

I know it sounds innocent enough as a request but this would be akin to admitting that Typhoon was insufficient for the hardcore elite or at least 'lacking something' (space, campaign control, individual missions, training, accurate systems modelling= sim everything:``(, overall.

Such is Slit-Your-Wrists-With-A-Rusty-
Butterknife _marketing suicide_ on such a new game, IMO.

You might have better luck asking Steve if it would be possible to speed up the expansion set options by incorporating elements (theatre maps etc.) of the old game into the new one.

If not, then make not simply an 'organized' plea but a logical one to the TSH or F4 hacker teams. Backed up by petitioners and
'this feature, that feature, the other feature' absence from not simply the new game but also whatever else they might be working on.

If the old game can be brought up to current graphical engine standards as was F4, as quickly as you say, then it may well be something worth doing for folks without a personal business interest in pushing the newer version.

But if you dump on Typhoon, for whatever good reason, don't expect SH to come in and explain to you why it's not fair to expect him to take a step back as a means of going forwards...

He won't do it and his disgust or fear may keep him from posting in future at all.


KP

#558930 - 05/15/01 10:02 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Actually, Gel 214th, it makes a lot of sense. This is exactly what Graphic Simulations is doing with Hornet: Korea Gold. They took a sim of similar vintage to EF2000 and updated it for D3D. SSI took an even larger leap with the free 2.5 add-on for Flanker 2.

Gel 214th, with this in mind, would you mind editing out your earlier post. I would love for this effort to get off on a positive note!

#558931 - 05/15/01 10:03 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Kurt

Good post.

Andy

#558932 - 05/15/01 10:08 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
I figured this might as well be a little more organized.

Anyone who would like to see a D3D or OpenGL update for EF2000 Ver 2.0 (US) or SuperEF2000 Graphics+ (Europe), please voice your approval below!

Steve Hunt, any input would be welcome! I believe this would be very beneficial for the marketing of Typhoon. Perhaps you guys could insert an opening screen or banner into EF2000 advertising Typhoon as "the next generation of EF2000" or something like that!

It sounds like a win-win situation!! Heck, the graphics compatibility update is all you need to do for this brilliant sim to move it into the next century! And we all saw how quickly you guys accomplished this with the 3dfx fix for Typhoon!!


As cool as this might be..I don't see this happening. Why would Rage release a graphics patch for EF-2000 that would basically make people then ignore Typhoon. No company is going to improve an old product just to effect sales of their current project.

Now I this would only be a problem if we're talking about FREE patch here. If Rage were to charge for this and perhaps repackage it)..I'd see no problem. And people WOULD pay for that.

(Of course we'd then get the bitch fest with people condeming Rage for not doing this in the first place rather then releasing Typhoon. Accusing them of just trying to milk the sim public..etc..etc..etc. They don't need that)

But I get the feeling that this is not doable for one reason or another. If is was just all just a simple matter of updating the graphics, Rage/DID would have done this already. Repackage it as a GOLD edition and you'd get instant sales.

Actually I got to wonder if Rage could even do this as they were not the publisher of EF-2000. Maybe they don't even have rights to the code.

Sorry to be so negative Fishbed77. I do think that it's a GREAT idea, but it might it not be feasable unfortunately.

[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-15-2001).]

#558933 - 05/15/01 10:16 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I don't think the rights or the source code would be available either - Steve mentioned about 6 months ago that he didn't think they'd be able to update TAW, so I highly doubt they'd be able to do that to EF2000.

In princible, as a possible future product, I wouldn't mind seeing such a product, but in the mean time, I just want to enjoy Typhoon, and I would really like some more theatres.

Cheers,
Manteau

#558934 - 05/15/01 10:18 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Ofcause it would be a simple rewrite... a D3D call here... a D3D call there... and EF2000 should be W2K ready...

My sister is a real looker, and I have several times offered her in return for even a small snippet of EF2000 code..
Noone at the former DiD ever returned my phonecalls.... does this mean they are all homosexuals ??

I certainly think so !!

Bimo

#558935 - 05/15/01 10:19 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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For once a Kurt Plummer post that not only doesn't contain any acronyms but one that I also agree with

It would take far more effort to upgrade an out of date engine than to take the current Typhoon and build upon that. Plus if they did upgrade the old EF2000 no one would want to go out and buy Typhoon. You should look to building on our present not our past.

But hey, if DID/rage were to provide an upgrade patch for EF2000 I'd buy it.

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#558936 - 05/15/01 10:24 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Lars Birkemose:
Ofcause it would be a simple rewrite... a D3D call here... a D3D call there... and EF2000 should be W2K ready...


Super EF2000 was designed for 3DFx cards - the Glide API *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT* - it's not simply a case of D3D call here - you have to design the game from the ground up.

Cheers,
Manteau

#558937 - 05/15/01 10:31 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Super EF2000 with glide???? I thought it was DOS EF2000 with TATCOM that was 3Dfx enabled......or have I been playing super EF2000 without knowing that it supports glide???? THIS IS A CONFUSING WORLD!
On a different note;
Manteau your tweek has enabled me to play multiplayer by playing in a window I can actualy connect to someone without it dying on me I would buy you a drink....but by the time it would reach you it would be warm..........so I shall have a drink for you!

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#558938 - 05/15/01 10:34 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by valleyboy:
Super EF2000 with glide???? I thought it was DOS EF2000 with TATCOM that was 3Dfx enabled......or have I been playing super EF2000 without knowing that it supports glide???? THIS IS A CONFUSING WORLD!
On a different note;
Manteau your tweek has enabled me to play multiplayer by playing in a window I can actualy connect to someone without it dying on me I would buy you a drink....but by the time it would reach you it would be warm..........so I shall have a drink for you!



I thought it was one of the first 3D Accelerated games for the Voodoo1...

Perhaps I'm wrong - it was 5 years ago...

LOL - no problem

When using Windowed mode, can you move the mouse outside the Typhoon window? - I can't seem to, so it seems pointless to have this... - Perhaps it's just my drivers...

Cheers,
Manteau

#558939 - 05/15/01 10:48 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Manteau:
Super EF2000 was designed for 3DFx cards - the Glide API *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT* - it's not simply a case of D3D call here - you have to design the game from the ground up.

Cheers,
Manteau


Arghh.... is that a fact !!!
Then my life must end...
(taking out _real_ big knife and stabbing away on own torso)
Ydrkk... arghh... sigh... ahhsg..

Bimo
(it all ends here)

#558940 - 05/15/01 11:48 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Okay, ill pay 50 US $ for an upgrade.
i just have bought Typhoon, it s a good game,that s for sure. But i still love the atmosphere of the old Ef2000 GFX+. Maybe they can use the graphics engine of typhoon and upgrade the "Hardcore" elements, we re missing so hardly? Like sensitive settings for our sticks,mission editors, UR-Gear Support, etc.....
Also it could include a better manual. The german one was horrible boring. TAW manual was much better here.

#558941 - 05/16/01 02:22 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Actually, Gel 214th, it makes a lot of sense. This is exactly what Graphic Simulations is doing with Hornet: Korea Gold. They took a sim of similar vintage to EF2000 and updated it for D3D. SSI took an even larger leap with the free 2.5 add-on for Flanker 2.

Gel 214th, with this in mind, would you mind editing out your earlier post. I would love for this effort to get off on a positive note!


No I won't edit my post..because I still don't think it's a good idea.

You're analogy with Graphic Simulations does not apply, since they did not release a new title after Korea that was radically different from Korea, that they were trying to sell and market.

If you stop to logically consider the matter it would be marketing suicide to even mention a revamped EF2000 for Typhoon. People who are vacillating over buying or not buying would most probably hold off and wait.

The analogy with Flanker 2 and Flanker 2.5 is also flawed, as this was an Add-On which used the same graphics engine, same physics model etc. just tweaked it all a bit and added a new aircraft for us to fly.

Do you think after SSI releases LO:MAC..that it would make sense for them to go back and re-release Flanker 2 with a TnL graphics engine with full vertex shading etc. etc. ?

So I'll reiterate..
it doesn't make sense.

This is what everyone else in the thread has been telling you so far,just probably not so bluntly.

Wait for LO:MAC for your next Study - Sim, since this seems to be what you are looking for.



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#558942 - 05/16/01 02:59 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I think we'd be better served with a new Typhoon expansion disk.

Typhoon graphics engine, sounds, AI, fm, aircraft, blah, blah + Norway = happy me, at the very least. Happy others too.

But one thing that might be very cool is if DID could use the same sounds for Comms and so on. (The thick norwegian accents, and so forth) That would ease EF2000 fans into the new Typhoon based iteration nicely.

Oh yeah, optional taxing would be nice ;-)

Gavin

#558943 - 05/16/01 03:33 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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This is what should happen in my opinion rather then Rage upgrading EF-2000

1. Rage release patch that fixes the most nagging of "bugs" and and quirks that Typhoon might have. If they can throw in an improvement or two with that first patch..then great.

2. There was mention that Rage was thinking about opening the campaign.and hopefully this will happen. The whole point of this would be too allow us to chose the opening factors of the campaign and what deciding would lead to a victory. etc.

3. What this also leads t of course of that possibility of 3rd party utilities perhaps. With TAW there was a third party utility that allowed one to create your own missions. Hopefully will see something like this either from Rage or they'll actively support interested third parties.

4. The supposed expansion for Typhoon would also be a welcome addition. Don't know how big an expansion this will be; but this would be the right time to improve some of the features of Typhoon.

Personally I don't think Rage has to do stray too far from the original concept of Typhoon to improve upon it. They don't have to feel like they have to turn the thing into a HARDCORE sim; they just have to improve and refine what's already there. IMHO.

5. Finally the my ultimate wish would be a Typhoon v.2. It would improve upon the campaign in the game we have know..but also add the same theater that was in the original EF2000. By then we'll all know what works in Typhoon and what needs improvement; and those things can be incorporated into version 2.

I think Typhoon is pretty good now and can be made great without being EF-2000.

And that folks has been my "I have a dream speech". With apologies to MLK.



[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-15-2001).]

#558944 - 05/16/01 04:19 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I don't want Typhoon to be EF2000.

;-)

I want it to be Typhoon with a few more bells and whistles. :-)

It's kinda like comparing uhm, lemons and limes, maybe, but I think if Typhoon were to get some features from EF2000 (cockpit, taxiing, Norway :-), drag modelling) then Typhoon would be a much more attractive thing, for me at least. It would mean that there would be more stuff to learn and enjoy within the realm of the established sim.

(I haven't talked to my dad, but i think I do currently own Typhoon!)

I want Typhoon to grow and grow, damnit!

;-)

Gavin

#558945 - 05/16/01 08:06 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I agree with Gavin. We should look forwards, not back. Typhoon is a great base to build on, and if we can add things (and make changes) to typhoon to make it good, as in have the good qualities of its predecesors (spelling?), then isn't that what we want?

Think about it.

#558946 - 05/16/01 08:34 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Hi,

Just to say that the EF-2000 thing will never happen. Just too many complications - as mentioned elsewhere, I don't think we even own it anymore. That's not me being -ve, it's just the way it is.

But I'm posting from another reason - the discussion so far has been mostly code related. One of the biggest jobs on a sim is the art work - just look at the differences in poly counts, animations and effects between a plane in EF2000 and a plane in Typhoon. If you did bang 3dream into EF2000 you find that it looks exactly the same!

Anyway - back to the add-on.....

Cheers,

Steve

#558947 - 05/16/01 09:06 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lars Birkemose:
Arghh.... is that a fact !!!
Then my life must end...
(taking out _real_ big knife and stabbing away on own torso)
Ydrkk... arghh... sigh... ahhsg..

Bimo
(it all ends here)


hehehe,

take it easy, Bimo, they obviously don't know you

#558948 - 05/16/01 10:29 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Manteau,
I can move the mouse, and use some programmes while Typhoon is running...It's quite usefull in a window...exept I lost the window first time.....it hid in the corner and defied all atempts to drag it into the middle of the screen I was then clicking around like a demented little man, when it went back to where it should be!

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If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#558949 - 05/16/01 11:18 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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It should be very beautiful.
Ef2000 was a very beautiful simulation i should have preferred a ef2000 with Typhoon graphic that is very beautiful and fluid.

Typhoon is a funny game but itisn't a simulation and many of us here loves hardcore simulations as Falcon4 or the old ef2000 so we can ask Rage a parallel Typhoon Simulation for simmers or a game with more options as Falcon4 that can be very simple with no-realism options but very difficult and real with all the options turned on.
Definitively is very difficult that our requests will be accepted but we can hope f and we can also ask for that to be accomplished.


------------------
Vincent "Virus" Di Micco


Vincent "Virus" DThe

#558950 - 05/16/01 11:19 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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It should be very beautiful.
Ef2000 was a very beautiful simulation i should have preferred a ef2000 with Typhoon graphic that is very beautiful and fluid.

Typhoon is a funny game but itisn't a simulation and many of us here loves hardcore simulations as Falcon4 or the old ef2000 so we can ask Rage a parallel Typhoon Simulation for simmers or a game with more options as Falcon4 that can be very simple with no-realism options but very difficult and real with all the options turned on.
Definitively is very difficult that our requests will be accepted but we can hope f and we can also ask for that to be accomplished.

Hope to fly in a real Typhoon over iceland (or Scandinavian) skies.

------------------
Vincent "Virus" Di Micco


Vincent "Virus" DThe

#558951 - 05/16/01 01:25 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
Hi,

Just to say that the EF-2000 thing will never happen. Just too many complications - as mentioned elsewhere, I don't think we even own it anymore. That's not me being -ve, it's just the way it is.

But I'm posting from another reason - the discussion so far has been mostly code related. One of the biggest jobs on a sim is the art work - just look at the differences in poly counts, animations and effects between a plane in EF2000 and a plane in Typhoon. If you did bang 3dream into EF2000 you find that it looks exactly the same!

Anyway - back to the add-on.....

Cheers,

Steve



Steve,

I agree with your comments, and have no doubt whatsoever that Typhoon will be enhanced with future add-ons, and Im sure it will be a success !!!

Read the Breaking News !!!!....

- BREAKING NEWS: G2Interactive has signed an agreement with Infogrames for
the licensing rights for none other than FALCON! Read their press release and find out what the future holds for one of the most influential simulations in history.

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/news/docs/g2interactive.shtml

I wonder, if Rage/ DID will take note , now that 'Falcon V' is now being worked on ???

This new sim is being geared up for beginners AND advanced simmers !!!! , and will no doubt they will work alongside rhe eFalcon team / 3rd party teams who have kept the Falcon series flight sims going since Falcon 4.0 was dropped by Hasbro !!!

Now, how about Typhoon 2.0 ???/ with realism upgrade / expansion pack, so that this new excellent Typhhon sim will be up there with the best , instead of JUST being a sim 'lite' which it is now....

Typhoon is the future, and has the potential , to be up there with the best......

But it needs more options for realism / harcore , so that you can grow with the sim....

Watch out for Falcon 5 !!!! and Typhoon 2 !!!

#558952 - 05/16/01 01:29 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 05-16-2001).]

#558953 - 05/16/01 01:37 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Wahoooo Andy,!!!!!!!!!

youre listening..... !!!

get those enhancements on the way !!!

#558954 - 05/16/01 02:19 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Personally I don't really want Typhoon to get totally "hardcore"; I guess we'll have Falcon5 for that. (actually I don't want Rage to think they should be under pressure to do that, when there are other things that they could focus there attentions on)

What I really think it's focus should be is in the campaign and how it interfaces with the player. And how the player interfaces with it.

I think Rage has already gone in the right direction with the first part by incorporating the scripted events into the dynamic campaign to throw some chaos into the mix. And also in forcing you to view your pilots more than just expendable cannon fodder. To me what's going on out there is just as important as what I'm doing in the cockpit..if not more. Give me a campaign that works and does a good job of pulling me in.

Next step though...more control over the campaign in the hands of the player.

And speaking of Falcon V..what is it going to be like; a year or more before that comes out? Especically if you're truly planning on making something you wish to call Falcon V (and according to the interview, they have high big plans for the sim). Maybe they'll be a Falcon 4 GOLD first to hold people over.



[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-16-2001).]

#558955 - 05/16/01 02:38 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Interestingly enough, everyone seems to forget that Jane's F-15 was released as a Glide-only sim, but with the 1.17 patch integrated D3D support.

Gel214, I am sorry for you. You simply don't have a clue. It is obvious that Typhoon (which I own and enjoy very much) does not compete with sims like EF2000. Steve Hunt made this very clear from the beginning. Hard-Core simmers would not buy Typhoon anyway. It will sell regardless of hard-core sims on the market, because it is aimed at a different audience altogether. If Rage were to offer a neo-EF2000, it would represent very little effort (investment) and would result in a considerable profit. At the same time, it would not hinder sales of Typhoon, a different genre of game released in a different time-frame.

Next time think about it before mouthing off.

#558956 - 05/16/01 02:41 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:





Stealthy Typhoons with slanted tails - nice.

I was under the impression those were in the game as it is (it was in the intro screen), but perhaps I'm wrong.

One of ICEFOR's reinforcements, perhaps ?

Cheers,
Manteau

#558957 - 05/16/01 03:38 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Since I'm a yank and I'm still waiting to get my copy in the mail...

What is THAT thing?

A Typhoon with slanted tail? Didn't one of the EAP designs have twin fins?

Do you get to fly it?

The plot thickens...


"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
-Dwight D Eisenhower
#558958 - 05/16/01 04:03 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by tn_prvteye:
A Typhoon with slanted tail? Didn't one of the EAP designs have twin fins?


The P.110 did have:



As did the ACA:



But the EAP didn't:



I think in the game it's an upgraded Typhoon, possibly with better weapons and stealthy (it's got a funny camo design).

Perhaps this is the "secret weapon" we can get?

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 05-16-2001).]

#558959 - 05/16/01 04:12 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Where can I fing more info about the P.110 or ACA? I have never heard of these planes before. Did they actually fly, or were they just mock-ups? Were they part of the Eurofighter program? I have heard of the EAP before, but never these two.

#558960 - 05/16/01 04:16 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Where can I fing more info about the P.110 or ACA? I have never heard of these planes before. Did they actually fly, or were they just mock-ups? Were they part of the Eurofighter program? I have heard of the EAP before, but never these two.


The P.110 was a British advanced fighter developement prototype - The ACA was a European initiative by Panavia (Tornado).

Both flew a couple of times in the 80s.

http://www.eurofighter.pso-online.com/Eurofighter/history_ie.html

Cheers,
Manteau

#558961 - 05/16/01 04:19 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Uroboros:
Personally I don't really want Typhoon to get totally "hardcore"; I guess we'll have Falcon5 for that. (actually I don't want Rage to think they should be under pressure to do that, when there are other things that they could focus there attentions on)


[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-16-2001).]



Uroboros,

I dont want Typhoon to be totally 'hardcore' either , but what a lot of people want is the ability to 'switch on' some realism options......and bung in some of the features that were in the original EF2000.
Eg detailed 2D cockpit with clickable options,Real Taxi-ing / Parking , More flexible smart-cam, Advanced HUD modes, etc...

Its a kind of hybrid , that I think is needed - a sim that not just accomodates new-comers ,but also the main-stream AND mainstream to Hardcore class. - Basically something is needed to increase in depth / realism to appeal 'a bit more' to the hardcore crowd .
I think thats what will make this sim a 90% + in the reviews , rather than the 65 % its already received.....

Look at the replayability in F4...and the Beginner / Rookie / Vereran / Ace modes which you can fly in.

F4 is VERY customisable,especially for more experienced players.... and thats whats missing from Typhoon....

You dont have to go completely Hardcore !!!

Take the best aspects from both Typhoon AND EF2000, combine them with some innovations... and make it even better, and hey...why not call it Typhoon 2 !!!

#558962 - 05/16/01 04:25 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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If I recall corectly.......we (Britain) could have had the EFA up and running about 8 years ago.....but they decided to keep the other countries around.....and look at what they did! delayed the programme by a few years, moan about costs, and then decide oops better shut up! The EAP flew at mach 2 and was more advanced than any other aircraft out there at the time....Britain could have had an advanced fighter ages ago......

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


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#558963 - 05/16/01 04:26 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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I knew that somewhere along the line there was a twin-fin a/c out there. I've got an old (well mid-80's old) recognition book that has the twin tailed ACA pictured...
Nice lookin' airframes...

So, Mr. Hunt, what IS this new Typhoon? HMMMMM?????


"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
-Dwight D Eisenhower
#558964 - 05/16/01 04:32 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by valleyboy:
If I recall corectly.......we (Britain) could have had the EFA up and running about 8 years ago.....but they decided to keep the other countries around.....and look at what they did! delayed the programme by a few years, moan about costs, and then decide oops better shut up! The EAP flew at mach 2 and was more advanced than any other aircraft out there at the time....Britain could have had an advanced fighter ages ago......



Yeah, I agree.

Germany and Spain held up the project from 93-95 because of cost worries - although we can't talk now as the RAF aren't going to be putting cannons in the aircraft.

On the other hand, it's got some pretty sweet systems that are the result of consortiums, Euroject, the DASS system, the radar, etc.

Cheers,
Manteau

#558965 - 05/16/01 04:35 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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That information is 'need to know' only - sorry!

Steve

#558966 - 05/16/01 04:38 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
That information is 'need to know' only - sorry!


It's in the intro movie though

*cries*

Or do we just have to play the game and see

Cheers,
Manteau

#558967 - 05/16/01 04:38 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Yeah, but I need to know!
Aw come on, I'll sign the Official Secrets Act...

[This message has been edited by tn_prvteye (edited 05-16-2001).]


"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
-Dwight D Eisenhower
#558968 - 05/16/01 04:53 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Manteau,
half of the coutries wont have some of the systems.....though the RAF isn't putting the BK-27 in the production run....whats stopping them taking the cannons out of the then decomissioned GR1's and F-3's, and putting them in then? Or they might do like the Harrier has, on sepparate pods on the underneath???Anyway the RAF's Typhoons will be the most advanced of them...CAPTOR radar, DASS, full ECM suite, IRST. I read somewhere that eventhough the other countries are participating in the projects...I think Germany are going to throw a AGP-65 in theirs? no towed decoys..minimum DASS, and only a small number of IRST sets. So in theory the RAF's Typhoons shouldn't need cannons if the ASRAAM does what it is meant to......but just as the Americans found out in Vietnam......I think the RAF will eventually put cannon on theirs..

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


"The engines are overheating, and so am I!!, we either make a move, or blow up!, So which is it to be?!"
----------------------------------
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
#558969 - 05/16/01 05:00 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by valleyboy:
Manteau,
half of the coutries wont have some of the systems.....though the RAF isn't putting the BK-27 in the production run....whats stopping them taking the cannons out of the then decomissioned GR1's and F-3's, and putting them in then? Or they might do like the Harrier has, on sepparate pods on the underneath???Anyway the RAF's Typhoons will be the most advanced of them...CAPTOR radar, DASS, full ECM suite, IRST. I read somewhere that eventhough the other countries are participating in the projects...I think Germany are going to throw a AGP-65 in theirs? no towed decoys..minimum DASS, and only a small number of IRST sets. So in theory the RAF's Typhoons shouldn't need cannons if the ASRAAM does what it is meant to......but just as the Americans found out in Vietnam......I think the RAF will eventually put cannon on theirs..



Yeah - good points - I remember hearing about the AGP-65 being used in the German's Typhoon...

heh - I wonder if these *deficiencies* are modelled in Typhoon - as in the German language version of the game...

Cheers,
Manteau

#558970 - 05/16/01 05:19 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I would imagine by 2010, the Germans will have said "to hell with it" and shoved in the ECR-90 radar. The AGP-65 - the Hornet radar- is pretty weak. I would also imagine that someone in Gordon Brown's civil service might be made see the light (they cut about 20 million off the RN's fuel budget recently, leaving a bunch of RN ships sitting in port... grrrrr!) about the guns.

Guns should be there as one final safety feature. When all comes to all, and the interceptor is still on your tail, the gun might just make the difference between living and dying, and getting a multi million pound aircraft back.

Gavin

#558971 - 05/16/01 05:20 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
When all comes to all, and the interceptor is still on your tail, the gun might just make the difference between living and dying, and getting a multi million pound aircraft back.
[/B]


Not to mention the pilot, who's training would have costed a couple of million.

Cheers,
Manteau

#558972 - 05/16/01 08:18 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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It'd be nice to see some features...like a working cockpit, for example...

But, as the British would say, "not bloody likely."

Such is life.

I've managed to wangle a copy of EFT through Dan's link. $42 bucks, two day FedEx delivery. This should be...interesting...to review for WG. The fact that women were included in got me interested enough to ante up, despite the avionics simplifications. WG got included out of the press distribution, and I didn't have any success with the development team in getting a press contact.

Miao, Cat

------------------
Resident Hardcore Flight Simmer
WomenGamers.Com
http://www.WomenGamers.Com
*Because Women DO Play*


Miao, Cat
#558973 - 05/16/01 11:04 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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WE (italy) won't have the air to ground Typhoon (probalbly) becouse they will serve in the interceptors squadrons as air dominance fighters but in 10-15 years we'll have to buy others bombers and we'll catch or the Jsf or the Typhoon Air to Ground version.


------------------
Vincent "Virus" Di Micco


Vincent "Virus" DThe

#558974 - 05/16/01 11:22 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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The Typhoon does both Air to ground and air to air......all you need to do is stick the weapon on the pylon! Why does everyone want the JSF, but can't be bothered to be in the development programme? That is probably the most ugliest plane EVER built (boeing version), they had a mock up on display at Farnborough last year......it resembled a beeched whale.....with a pilot

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#558975 - 05/16/01 11:38 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by valleyboy:
The Typhoon does both Air to ground and air to air......all you need to do is stick the weapon on the pylon!


LOL! If only, if only, if only... Trust me on this, it's nowhere near as simple as saying "It does air-to-ground - just stick it on the pylon."

Quote:

That is probably the most ugliest plane EVER built (boeing version), they had a mock up on display at Farnborough last year......it resembled a beeched whale.....with a pilot


Ah, yes, already christened "the Man scoop".


Mike Rovardi
Eurofighter Stores Release
BAE SYSTEMS Warton

#558976 - 05/17/01 02:54 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Personally,

I think RAGE will have blown great big bloody chunks if they:

1. Stick with 'only' the Euroflubber.
DID's multiple evolutions of bug-fixer EF-2000 editions meant diddly all to the very limited release, very poorly marketed, very 'low viz' (blah) U.S. sales. Cult Classic is a death knell. ADF/TAW was it's own failure for being (gads) an 'Out of Africa' sim but it at least brought attention to them as the best of multiple F-22 sims released.

2. Go back to Norway, again.
Damn, I realize it's 'moody' but you people summer holiday in Bermuda to get AWAY from the gloom and the grey.

Don'tcha?

To a blue-sky Ami it's not 'impressively atmospheric' so much as a bad attempt to cover up missing detail (just look at Andy's new camo covering up a basic soapblock airframe, the canopy reflections being the 'highest detail' area on the jet!).

I dunno, I mean maybe Euro's like this kind of crap and I'm not realizing I'm in an all-Euro discussion forum. If so I apologize.

But if you want SERIOUS GLOBAL SALES.

You need to do at least three things:

1. More Types, More Modern, More Operationally _Useful_ in their Diversity.

To me, this just has to be STOVL JSF. Even if it is in RN 'colours' operating off a CV-F. It has never been done. It is stealth and supercruise capable. It has a very unique landing mode. It carries much more restrictive ordnance and yet is sufficiently stealthed as to 'get close' so that you can see targets you blow up. It has some very unique ordnance options coming.

_It is American_. At least partly. And as an X-35=F-24 version is also fairly pretty.

I would also support Tornado and even Gripen (as a BAe sponsored product, why not?) or Mirage 2000-05 for some of the possible theatre options (see next).

But to give another example, Flanker was a loser that tried to sell us on 'advanced' Soviet hardware powered by 1950's avionics, clumsy cockpit controls and capable only of fighting other Russian aircraft in a pissant theatre nobody cared who won or lost in. F2 was the same with slightly less crayola backgrounds and 3rd person victims in the form of the odd Western jet/ship/tank.

_LOMAC_ is set to become a real seller, if only because it gives aircraft types with reasonably accurate modelling that no U.S. company has thought 'worthy' for over a decade. F-14/15/16/A-10.

More international flare. More diversity in operational modes.

If the recent sim-market crash has proven anything it is that _$$$$ count_. And the wider you spread your net in terms of popular interest, the more profit fish you can drag into the company boat.

2. Pick REAL theatres.
Australia vs. China in the SW Pacific shipping lanes.

Reunitied Korea vs. China. It will happen, and the Chinese may become jealous, especially if they continue to get rebuffed over Taiwan. Why refight 1950?

Saudi/UAE vs. an Iran that gotten the 'last word' in the millennia old conflict with Iraq and is now looking to become the sole Fundamentalist Shiia (nuclear) power in the PG.

Greece vs. Turk-Israeli alliance in the Aegean Sea. Crete, the offshore islands, or just plain Biggest Kids On Block.

Even a 'CentFront, Ukraine' as NATO goes nuts in Serbia and the Russians object on behalf of their 'Slavic Brothers' and start to wage cruise missile warfare from over the Black Sea.

All places where you could expect to see the Typhoon as well as quite an array of 'other', _Western_, high performance, airframes.

Places that have meaning today and will become /critical/ tomorrow.

Not some two decade's dead vision of a war theatre that would have been fought with Tornados, F-111's, F-4's and F-15/16's if it had ever happened at all. And it didn't.

3. Give us Campaign/Mission Controls!
I can't believe some of the mission descriptions I read. You DON'T fight that way. No modern AF on earth would fight that way. Part of this is the inability to know a given (fixed) theatre win/loss parameter and set the order of battle around it. Part is an inability to pick truly complimentary instead of seemingly 'random' participant aircraft and use them in a doctrinally wise fashion.

Another element of this is simple space. If you include Blue Water threats, you have to include the ability to fix them and overlap-kill them, at range. Developing the battle is a large part of controlling the battlespace and sanitizing the -empty- from the threat-full. In a timely sequenced manner.


Kurt Plummer


P.S. From the spine, that Typhoon looks like the multirole version of the 2-seater 'without the ejection seat'. IIRR, the first Flubber tranche is all 'air defense' basic with minimal EW/AG systems integration and likely nothing more than bombs and rockets delivery.

The second tranche will be 'rapid deployable' in the manner of the various Jag and Tornado quick mods. Basic EW integration and a few more (ALARM and LGB) delivery options. It may have AMSAR and for the Brits at least could also include overwing CFT and new EJ-230 engines so it doesn't pig out completely.

The third tranche, if bought in direct competition with FOAS, will be the 'multirole' (aka F-15E) version with separately integrated large-glass cockpits, full Storm Shadow long and JDAM shortrange PTOD munitions integration and possible UCAV control modes. Big Wing may offset heavyweight A/G loadings and help internalize the CFT fuel. AMSAR is assured and unlike the game, Meteor will just about be ready for operational deployment.

If this last is the 'secret weapon' they are talking about then it should be online in the timeframe 2009-11, earliest, and would again make a superb 'weasel plus standoff CAP' door kicker for close up JSF penetrators to get in with hammer weapons.

It is itself in NO WAY 'stealthy' in the truest sense however.

#558977 - 05/17/01 03:09 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I think Kurt's theater choices are right on the money.

#558978 - 05/17/01 05:22 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I agree with that last post. And with Kurt's choice of theatre.

Australia/USA v China would be a feasible campaign. It could be fought around the South China Sea from Darwin or Butterworth in Malaysia, or from Guam. Plenty of opportunity for refueling midair and long hauls in the cockpit. Also plenty of carrier action.

ALternatively, a Taiwan scenario would be good.



------------------
Neptune

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#558979 - 05/17/01 05:24 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I agree with that last post. And with Kurt's choice of theatre.

Australia/USA v China would be a feasible campaign. It could be fought around the South China Sea from Darwin or Butterworth in Malaysia, or from Guam. Plenty of opportunity for refueling midair and long hauls in the cockpit. Also plenty of carrier action.

ALternatively, a Taiwan scenario would be good.



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#558980 - 05/17/01 11:07 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Please someone make an ef2000 hardcore simulation.
Why we can't create a communtity capable to completely modifiy the game?
Watch what have done the community with Falcon4
1)New Theatres 2)Incredible reality OPTIONS(can both play newers and hardcore gamers modifing the options)
3)New graphic engine(it was glide and now is d3d and OpenGl).
We have to options
1)modify EF2000
2)modify Typhoon

Some one of you could say me go to play Falcon4 but i anwer that me and not only me but many other people here wish have a Typhoon simulation.
Please someone help us!

------------------
Vincent "Virus" Di Micco


Vincent "Virus" DThe

#558981 - 05/17/01 01:19 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Vince-

That'd be soooo nice. I always wished they'd done TAW with the Eurofighter rather than the F-22. At least as a second flyable. Now that'd have been cool. I do like the West Africa theater. It's topical-Urgent Shield is like a refought Ethiopia-Eritrea civil war, with us playing peacekeeper and the Chinese selling weapons to the other side.

I've always said that if you added parachutes to the Mk-82R bombs, gave us in-bay carriage of LGBs (if we'd had GBU-16 instead of GBU-24 that'd have been solved), and allowed us to independently retarget JDAMs I'd be satisfied with TAW, even though the sim totally had zero accessibility to women....

Modding TAW or EF2k ain't gonna go, though, my brother. Not unless Rage decides to do an all-new sim with hardcore features, and that's about got the chance of an ice cube surviving on a sidewalk in downtown Hades at high noon. Remember what happened with the third party mods to TAW. DiD et al went bananas and threatened to sue. These guys will go bananas if anyone tries to eRazor Typhoon. So the gurus will say "why even bother? We've got F4 out there...and Falcon V on the horizon...."

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#558982 - 05/17/01 02:04 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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"I'd be satisfied with TAW, even though the sim totally had zero accessibility to women...."

Uh, um... it was just as easy for women to play as it was for men.

The controls weren't different or anything...

#558983 - 05/17/01 02:06 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
"I'd be satisfied with TAW, even though the sim totally had zero accessibility to women...."

Uh, um... it was just as easy for women to play as it was for men.

The controls weren't different or anything...


I think she means that all the pilot voices in the game were male, rather than having a choice between male and female when you set up your pilot...

Cheers,
Manteau

#558984 - 05/17/01 03:43 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manteau:
I think she means that all the pilot voices in the game were male, rather than having a choice between male and female when you set up your pilot...

Cheers,
Manteau


Thank you, Manteau. You get it.

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#558985 - 05/17/01 06:33 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I get it too. Your wording was just funny. The sim is equally ACCESSABLE, but maybe not equally APPEALING. Still a great sim regardless.

The symantic police is out in full force.

#558986 - 05/17/01 06:45 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
The symantic police is out in full force.


Are they now? Would they be a branch of the SEMANTIC police?

#558987 - 05/17/01 06:46 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Oops. Double post. That'll teach me for being a smart arse.



[This message has been edited by Howz (edited 05-17-2001).]

#558988 - 05/17/01 07:22 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:

Gel214, I am sorry for you. You simply don't have a clue.

Next time think about it before mouthing off.

hmm..I posted a response to this..but I later decided it wasn't worth it, and would probably devolve into a flame war.

Could someone please delete this post by me?



[This message has been edited by Gel214th (edited 05-17-2001).]


-Gel214th
#558989 - 05/17/01 08:45 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Howz, good catch!! I'm glad to see the Discrepency Police are still making their rounds too!!!

#558990 - 05/17/01 11:53 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Howz, good catch!! I'm glad to see the Discrepency Police are still making their rounds too!!!


Stop it. You're doing it on purpose now, right?

#558991 - 05/18/01 02:04 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Oh no, not the Harmless Fun Police!!

#558992 - 05/19/01 01:33 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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I saw EF2000 v2.0 on sale recently with EAW, Falcon 4.0 and F22ADF. All for about US $ 25.

Is this sim a good version of this game? I mean there are many versions of EF2000. Is this the most up to date? Or should I look out for another version?

How will it compare to say, TAW?

Your comments please



------------------
Neptune

Neptune - Strike! Your Signal is Divert! Acknowlege!

#558993 - 05/19/01 01:24 PM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Yes, EF2000 ver. 2.0 is the final version of that classic sim. It is a great game, but don't expect accerated graphics unless you are using an ancieant Voodoo 1 card.

#558994 - 05/20/01 12:52 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Gel214th Offline
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Gel214th  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Yes, EF2000 ver. 2.0 is the final version of that classic sim. It is a great game, but don't expect accerated graphics unless you are using an ancieant Voodoo 1 card.



Uhh..wasn't there a game called Super EF2000 that was accelerated under Windows?


-Gel214th
#558995 - 05/20/01 01:27 AM Re: D3D/OpenGL update/patch for EF2000 ver.2/EF2000 graphics+ PETITION  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gel214th:

Uhh..wasn't there a game called Super EF2000 that was accelerated under Windows?


Don't think hardware acceleration worked with 3D cards later than the Voodo1. But I think I've seen mention of a way to fix this that involved editing files. I think the details were posted on the old EF2000 mail list before it died.

Prune

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