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#558667 - 05/13/01 06:03 AM Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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All this talk of Typhoon has got my mouth watering. On the other hand, I'm glad I had the self-control to wait for feedback before buying a new sim (for the first time in years!). I don't have Typhoon yet.

I'll make this simple. To guys who have spent a lot of time with F-15 and F-18, is Typhoon any good? For example, if you would give F-15 a 7/10 and F-18 8/10, what would you give Typhoon?

(What's the point- if I go to the store next week and see the thing on a shelf, I'll be reaching for the credit card!)

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#558668 - 05/13/01 10:45 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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F15 and F18 are more sim than game; Typhoon is more game than sim.


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#558669 - 05/13/01 11:15 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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I have all the sims you name, and more.
For years I've beem seriously into realism in sims.

This doesn't mean however that I can't recognize and appreciate a GAME that tries to do something different.

ET is certainly worth the money .. its a totally different type of experience from the realism sims, but it is equally immersive and challenging and fun. Remember everyone that EF2000 was not exactly a realism sim either... and didn't you all love (Still Love) EF2000? When ET is every bit as good an experience as EF2000... which is really saying something.

BUY BUY BUY

Andre

#558670 - 05/13/01 11:30 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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I have all the sims two typhoon is good but i would like the MFDS in the right place niknaks_131st

#558671 - 05/13/01 11:37 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Casey,

it's too much comparing apples and oranges. If your fun with F-15 and F/A 18 is based on dealing with systems and avionics, then Typhoon is not for you. If you like intense combat experience and can accept some AI flaws, then get Typhoon !

Pollux

#558672 - 05/13/01 01:05 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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I played F-18 and F-15 quite a bit, so heres the big difference, you spend most of your time in Typhoon looking at the world outside the cockpit where as in the Janes games you spend more time working inside the cockpit. Typhoon actually plays more like a WWII style sim with lots of close encounters with the enemy and transparent avionics. Its really good and unlike F-18 it actually runs at a good frame rate (even on my 1.3Ghz Athlon im not happy with the FPS on F-18).

#558673 - 05/13/01 02:16 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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The ground war in EFT is quite excellent!(it is afterall the *first* dynamic one created)

I was flying an escort to a C17 when i noticed 3 T-90'2 -that i had attacked earlier on a previous interdiction and managed to only knockout about 3/4- traveling steadfastly towards my airbase.

When i had completed the escort armed with ALARM's i was on my return when i noticed the T-90's engaged in combat with my airfield defenses! (i could see target box's appear around them and shell's striking them and around them) being unarmed,i landed and was immediately lit up by an IR. Looking up i saw a wave of Russian fighter/bomber's coming in,so i lit her back up into the air and commenced attacking and (failing) valiantly to defend my airbase with gun's only
With radar,airframe and airbrake damaged i had no choice but to make a low level break for it and land at another NATO A/B.
When i was in the mess i saw that my "old" A/B had indeed been captured.

EFT may be a lite sim but the dynamic campaign sure isn't!

That's what make's a huge difference with some of today's so-called hard-core sim's....the campaign are scripted and repetitive. EFT's is *not*

F-15 was "semi scripted" but one of the best games put out. EFT has the simplicity of pick-up-and-play without a 600page re-read every time you put the game down for a week or two


Tracer


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#558674 - 05/13/01 03:00 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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it is afterall the *first* dynamic one created

Certainly not. ApacheHavoc had a real time dynamic campaign, and so did its successor EECH. And unlike the one in ET, in the two former games the campaign adapts even if the user plays "outside of the campaign system" (free quote from S.Hunt), i.e. does free refueling/ rearming etc.

As for the original question: if you liked F-15/F-18 for their technical fidelity and you expect a flight sim to have at least some of that fidelity, then ET is clearly not for you. If however you also enjoy a game of Quake or Unreal (sic!) once in a while, then you might find some fun in ET as well.

#558675 - 05/13/01 04:31 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blaze:
it is afterall the *first* dynamic one created

Certainly not. ApacheHavoc had a real time dynamic campaign, and so did its successor EECH. And unlike the one in ET, in the two former games the campaign adapts even if the user plays "outside of the campaign system" (free quote from S.Hunt), i.e. does free refueling/ rearming etc.


I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim....................hmmmm you *never* give it a break on this forum with your little childish remarks eh?

EFT's ground war is the *first* truly dynamic one created


Tracer

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#558676 - 05/13/01 05:32 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Umm..I love EF:T as well...but..umm..

what about Falcon 4's campaign?
Didn't that have a ground war in there too?


-Gel214th
#558677 - 05/13/01 06:09 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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F4 had a ground war, and it was in fact dynamic. However, I think what everyone is referring to, in the sims they mentioned, is that the "dynamic" ground war in F4, while it is, it isn't. Two ground units fight it out, in real time, and you can see a depiction of the resulting battle, but the ground units really aren't fighting; the computer is playing out several factors and decides who won the battle. A T-72 doesn't really shoot a M1 (although gives you that impression), the computer figures who won. In EEAH & EECH, the two combatants actually fight it out, in real time. If a T-72 shoots a M1 in those games, it shoots a M1.
And Tracer, the campaign in EEAH was dynamic. Although, I admit, in both games, the campaign is initially repetitive; recon, recon, & more recon. However, once all the enemy units are identified, things really pick up.




[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-13-2001).]


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#558678 - 05/13/01 07:15 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Another example from the campaign in Typhoon.

Flew a CAP mission last night. Just past halfway to my patrol point two MiG 29s lifted off a captured base to intercept me. I ordered my wingman to engage and she managed to take out one of the two. I took out the second in a brief furball, then we were back on course.

Before we got back to cruise alt I could see (had radar off) six to eight interceptors heading our way over the patrol area 50nm ahead. Ech. Not good. Decision point.. turn around or do our best...

Ok. I still have five other pilots alive (18:40 hours on Day 1).

I selected the center group and ordered wingman to bracket left. I turned slightly right.

When we had a decent spread I ordered wing to engage and went nose hot. By now we were at 28 miles from the closest group, perhaps 32 miles to the next.

I launched all my Meteors within 60 seconds, by now at 22 miles. My wing wasn't quite that efficient but I ordered her to disengage rather than target another group and order her to engage again. Then I ordered finger formation and did a quick loop around to maintain some distance from the bandits.

By the time we looped to re-engage we were about 16 miles and had knocked down four of about ten.

I ordered wing to engage again and now we were being launched on by various fighters. I quickly found the dangerous ones (Su27s) and tried to engage a pair while my wing took on some others.

I had six ASRAAMs and used FOUR on one Su, while hoping the other wouldn't kill me. Managed to stay clean and killed the other with my last two. At this point my wing was hit and ejected.

Now I have three fighters in the air around me and two about 12 miles to my 9 o'clock who are free now that my wing is down.

I really wanted to survive this fight. My DASS was on max zoom and I could see that two fighters are in a pair about 5 miles at my 3 o'clock. I think they are both MiG 27s. The other fighter is pulling onto my six at 4 miles and I'm not sure what it is.

I rolled and went for the deck, lit the AB when I was low and zoomed between a couple of hills.

The following fighter stayed high at first and launched an IR missile. I killed the burner and twisted hard around another hill when the missile was about one mile behind. Sure enough, missile impacted the hill.

Now all three fighters are after me and there is another launch. The near fighter has come down to the deck and I am pushing the limit about 100 feet off the rolling ground. As I nearly impact on a small rise suddenly the fighter is gone .. he didn't pull up fast enough.

Now I have two more on my tail about six miles. I zoomed out my DASS briefly and spied some green crosses about 12 miles ahead. Thinking back to my EF2000 days I reasoned that those friendly SAMs could be very helpful about now

Another missile launch.. radar missile .. I am out of chaff and flares by now. I did a half loop pulling into a hill and the missile lost me.

The fighters are about four miles off my six now since my looping has cost me some speed and time. About four miles to the SAMs and I notice a launch up ahead!

Sure enough, the fighters behind me are dropping chaff. A few seconds later the AAA guns are targeting them. Suddenly there is only one fighter on my tail.

The remaining MiG 27 is down low with me and now we mix it up. He is turning pretty well with me and I get a couple of snapshots. He tries to nail me with an IR missile but the angles are hopeless.

Now we're both in the AAA and I'm afraid of friendly fire if this continues very long, so I try to drag the fight a bit further away. I watch as the MiG barely dodges another SAM.

Finally I pull him into a nice guns shot.. just as another SAM nails him!

I'm ecstatic. I lost my wing but she bailed safely. Altogether we killed about twelve bandits and I made it to an alternate base. This mission had plenty of challenge and I didn't know from one moment to the next if I'd make it.



[This message has been edited by Leonard Hjalmarson (edited 05-13-2001).]

#558679 - 05/13/01 09:02 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Silverswift, i'm not hot on EECH because i quoted A/H which i have. That is a semi- dynamic campaign not *fully* dynamic.

F4 had a semi-dynamic ground war Silverswift as you said but not a *fully* dynamic like EFT.

Please read pages 48-49 of the manual and you will see what i mean?

This quote from it:
"Typhoon is a truly dynamic campaign within the theater of conflict. Events in other part's of the world will affect the campaign system. It is the first time we have modelled a campaign at so many levels.
Few if any other product's boast such a comprehensive system"


Combat AI
Dynamic

Mission Planning
Dynamic

Resource modelling
Dynamic

Strategic modelling
Dynamic

Extra theater influences
scripted

Tracer


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#558680 - 05/13/01 09:14 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blaze:
it is afterall the *first* dynamic one created

Certainly not. ApacheHavoc had a real time dynamic campaign, and so did its successor EECH. And unlike the one in ET, in the two former games the campaign adapts even if the user plays "outside of the campaign system" (free quote from S.Hunt), i.e. does free refueling/ rearming etc.

As for the original question: if you liked F-15/F-18 for their technical fidelity and you expect a flight sim to have at least some of that fidelity, then ET is clearly not for you. If however you also enjoy a game of Quake or Unreal (sic!) once in a while, then you might find some fun in ET as well.


So Blaze...quick question. Have you actually played Typhoon yet? If not; why don't you reserve judgement until you do.

#558681 - 05/13/01 10:05 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverswift:
F4 had a ground war, and it was in fact dynamic. However, I think what everyone is referring to, in the sims they mentioned, is that the "dynamic" ground war in F4, while it is, it isn't. Two ground units fight it out, in real time, and you can see a depiction of the resulting battle, but the ground units really aren't fighting; the computer is playing out several factors and decides who won the battle. A T-72 doesn't really shoot a M1 (although gives you that impression), the computer figures who won. In EEAH & EECH, the two combatants actually fight it out, in real time. If a T-72 shoots a M1 in those games, it shoots a M1.
And Tracer, the campaign in EEAH was dynamic. Although, I admit, in both games, the campaign is initially repetitive; recon, recon, & more recon. However, once all the enemy units are identified, things really pick up.


[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-13-2001).]



First off:

Great Job RAGE !!

EFT is just what the doctor ordered for the lagging SIM market. Definitely two thumbs up. :-)


On-Topic:

You would need a *SuperComputer* to run F4's ground war in 3d (100% DYNAMIC)...

The Order Of Battle in both sims differs exponentially.

Also ET covers an area 5 times smaller than the default F4 theatre size.

Maybe one day we'll be able to compare apples -to-apples.

As there's an Iceland scenario in dev. for F4 ;-)


FAngs32-444 VFS
RP Group

#558682 - 05/13/01 11:02 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
[QUOTE]
I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim....................hmmmm you *never* give it a break on this forum with your little childish remarks eh?

EFT's ground war is the *first* truly dynamic one created


Tracer



1. EECH predates ET, which means that whether you quote EEAH or not, the fact remains that EECH's dynamic campaign predates ET's.

2. PCZone described B17 as 'repetitive', which I can't help feeling is a comment that applies to your description of AH. If you want repetitive, you're better off arguing over EAW.

3. Helicopters *fly*. Now I don't know how you manage to define flight sim as different from helicopter sim, that one sure beats me. You'll be tempting me to argue jet sims aren't flight sims because you have a computer to do the flying, and WW1 is the only true flight genre

And before you ask, yes, I have Eurofighter Typhoon...


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Fletch

#558683 - 05/14/01 12:00 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Hey Viking,

BVRAAM. Interesting, do you get any kind of midcourse uplink/TVM capability for the Meteor? And how many did your wingman fire?

Seems somewhat fishy that you would get so few hits from such a large launch number at such short range. I also think they are badly underestimating the longpol energy of a constant impulse ramjet weapon.

The only thing which could modify this would be very large formation stack/trail separations outside the ECR mechanical array TWS boundaries and given the 'generic' modelling of the sensors in general, that seems unlikely.

ASRAAM. Do all threats have a MAWS equivalent, 'break on launch', capability regardless of weapon type/firing range and do ASRAAM's lockon at BVR?

I would put it in an 8-10nm seeker, 6-8nm airframe class, FQ-hi, and would like to ask how you specifically engaged threats that you wasted so many rounds (IRCM, launch break, terminal break, beam-extension??)??

Given a longrange launch and a high efficiency (lo drag airframe) midcourse the threat should not react at least until the ASRAAM hit's visual merge by which time any MAKS system should be seeing, at most, a gasgenerator burn.

'MiG-27s', with radar, snicker.

Pilots over Planes. Given that there are nominally a 1.5 and in some case 2 or more to 1 manning ratio, the Wingie's plane was more valuable than she was (did she live, btw?).

That, more than anything was the key to determining the engagement odds. You might consider letting the threat 'declare intent', by mission role, and if they were specifically a DCA sweep out for your hide, seeing if you could draw them over FLOT into your SAM freefire lanes, first. No kill better than a freebe, even if you do have to hand off to the gruntnicks.

Instead, from your description, it sounds like you got close with indecisive BVR attrite, you didn't fully(?) employ your sections LRAAM capabilities and then you got individually fangy and boresighted, losing all control of fight initiative and eventually even expendables=survivability 'hang in there' options.

Relying on deux ex machina to yank your nellies out of the flame after all other choices were gone is NOT a good way to reach the old fighter pilots home...

If you could begin the fight at 50nm and have your wingman another 20-30 behind you, you could time out a dual targeted, fullpol, (40+40 rather than 60 all) shot on all your Meteor and then come off and let her have an equivalent turn, cutting off the corner while they ineffectually chased you back to a common rejoin point.

In all likelihood they will scatter as she starts to take Yorkian turkey shots from behind.

By getting such low LRAAM attrition and then coming back from a predictable extension to take on two separate forces (one completely unattrited?) at radar-merge conditioning, you were automatically guaranteeing that your team would have threats past the 3/9 and thus be azimuth split and reactive rather than proactive to the fight at hand.

'Loop around' be hanged, if ya ain't gunnin', ya'd better be runnin' and doing both, in lead-trail sequence, would have likely got you more timed-out kills and left you with a clearer range=decision point (and sniper geometry) on accepting the subsequent merge combat.

1+1+4+2+1/1= 8:1 exchange.

1+1+2(1)+2(1)+2(1)+2(1)/0= 6:0 exchange.

I know for sure which one I'm picking....


KP

#558684 - 05/14/01 12:57 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Kurt, for the love of God chill out. What motivates you to write this stuff?

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#558685 - 05/14/01 02:25 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Kurt,

but that's the fun of this kind of thing. Since it's a game, one can experiment and if killed, come back to fly another day.

I like the option of single engagement with wingie coming in behind. I'll give it a go. I'm also curious about the drag options for wingman. I think I'll try the mission that way next.

Meteor's do seem to have too low a hit ratio in this one.

I think ASRAAM will lock longer than WEZ, but of course hit ratio isn't good. Surprisingly, hit ratio head on with ASRAAM is nearly 50%, but it does depend on the platform and how aggressively they maneuver and drop flares.

#558686 - 05/14/01 03:00 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Thanks for the awesome response guys.

As I said at the top, I'm a sim addict; I know I'll buy it as soon as it comes to CompUSA no matter what.

But now I can't wait. I had one of those "go in the closet and dig through my old sims" weekends. I wanted to fly something but I just couldn't get into any for more than a few minutes. So I spent Saturday night drinking, cleaning my hard drive, uninstalling things I haven't played in more than a month, defragged and went to bed.

I was very pissed off about Fly!2 being a pile of crap. Typhoon might be just what I need to get back in the cockpit!

Good Hunting.

#558687 - 05/14/01 03:48 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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ASRAAM.

Since the ASRAAM was meant to replace the AIM-9L and AIM-9L, and was eventually dropped by the US in favour of "their ASRAAM" the AIM-9X, one can assume that the ASRAAM does everything the AIM-9X does, only the thing is bigger, and has an off-boresight capability.

The reason the US rejected it was because the missile was too big. (I think)

Gavin

#558688 - 05/14/01 07:53 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gavin Bennett:
ASRAAM.

The reason the US rejected it was because the missile was too big. (I think)


I doubt that; overall the ASRAAM isn't much bigger than the AIM-9L, and I'd remind you that the Americans tend to use the AMRAAM off Sidewinder launch rails, too, and that's definietly bigger than ASRAAM.

More likely the Americans were showing their institutional arrogance when it comes to buying weapons from overseas... [g]

[Dons flameproof suit]



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Please note opinions expressed in my posts are my own and not those of my employer

#558689 - 05/14/01 10:45 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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>More likely the Americans were showing >their institutional arrogance when it comes >to buying weapons from overseas... [g]

>[Dons flameproof suit]

Is it bulletproof too? It better be AIM-9X proof just to be sure!
Just think, if they wanted the best IR missiles, they would be buying from the russians by now.....the theory goes that if the warhead is large enough, it doesn't matter if you miss! BOOM!


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#558690 - 05/14/01 11:54 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Guess who is making they Iceland Theater for F4

this was one of my biggest reason to buy Typhoon right away..lol


Widowmaker aka Metalhead

Quote:
Originally posted by FAngs32:

First off:

As there's an Iceland scenario in dev. for F4 ;-)


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#558691 - 05/14/01 02:28 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ballistic:
3. Helicopters *fly*. Now I don't know how you manage to define flight sim as different from helicopter sim, that one sure beats me. You'll be tempting me to argue jet sims aren't flight sims because you have a computer to do the flying, and WW1 is the only true flight genre

And before you ask, yes, I have Eurofighter Typhoon...




Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Which is what i define a flight sim by.
Your talking about Helo's which is why there is a seperate forum for that subject here. Tactic's are completely different from winged aircraft and trying to blend EFT with A/H EECH is rather like chalk and cheese don't you agree? Since one deal's predominatly with ground war and the other blend's the whole lot nicely!

Tracer



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#558692 - 05/14/01 04:55 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer! I can't believe you're serious!!!

But anyway, maybe you should shell out the tenner you need for EECH these days, spend a little time downloading the various amazing mods some guys have been doing and give it a go?

I know since the mods became available it has become an even better GAME and perhaps a closer simulation. There's nothing like trying to keep at flying-fish heights (and speed!) to get close enough to a carrier to take it out. Oh, I forgot, it's not really flying is it? It's just hanging from that whirly thing above right?

And yes, maybe I DO need to go buy Typhoon before I slag it off. But then, I didn't slag it off, did I?

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-14-2001).]


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#558693 - 05/14/01 05:03 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Which is what i define a flight sim by.
Your talking about Helo's which is why there is a seperate forum for that subject here. Tactic's are completely different from winged aircraft and trying to blend EFT with A/H EECH is rather like chalk and cheese don't you agree? Since one deal's predominatly with ground war and the other blend's the whole lot nicely!

Tracer



Actually, in forward flight helos fly very much like a aeroplanes, they just have other options from stalling!

#558694 - 05/14/01 05:04 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Ah jaysus Len.

You would have to wax lyrical about Typhoon wouldn't you?

I want this goddamn sim!

GRRRRRRRR!

;-)

Gavin

#558695 - 05/14/01 05:30 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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I think Tracer's arguments got covered pretty well already so I come directly to you, Uroboros (just so you don't think I'd ignore you on purpose ).

Have you actually played Typhoon yet? If not; why don't you reserve judgement until you do.

And if yes?
Because I did play it and I probably still would, if it would work with my throttle.

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 05-14-2001).]

#558696 - 05/14/01 06:46 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Well, I don't know why we're talking about helos now, but, Tracer, helicopters do have wings; rotary wings. Now, I don't know what dictionary you were looking at, but lets address this:
Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Helicopters do not fly by use of a cushion of air! They hover when at extremely low altitude (say 20 meters more or less, depending on model) using ground effects (what you referred to as hovering), but they do not fly on a cushion of air (LOL). Helicopters fly much the same way as fixed wing aircraft. They both use Bernoulli's Principle of lift. Because their wings are not movable, hence the name "fixed wing," these fixed wing A/C achieve lift by pushing the entire airframe through the air. While Helos, on the other hand, move the wing (or the "blades" you refer to) in it's entirety, through the air to achieve lift. Both types of craft uses wings and the aforementioned Bernoulli's Principle. A cross section of both types of wings would reveal to you their basic shape to be identical in concept. So, if you do not think of helos as true flight sims, your definition of a flight sim is beyond the basic principles of flight. Which is fine, nothing wrong with it, to each his own. However, do know that helicopters are AIRCRAFT. BTW, not an evil tempered reply at all (and I know I have a bad reputation for those ).

Also, back to EEAH. Tracer, you say it wasn't a dynamic campaign. How do you figure!? The only difference, in the following areas you specified is in EEAH & EECH there is no scripted events. So, how can those Razorworks titles not have a dynamic campaign?

Combat AI
Dynamic

Mission Planning
Dynamic

Resource modelling
Dynamic

Strategic modelling
Dynamic

Extra theater influences
scripted




[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-14-2001).]


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#558697 - 05/14/01 09:41 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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> Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
> They hover,ride on a cushion of air
> created by varying pitch

Heheh, thank you. I've never had so much fun so early on.

FYI, Ground effect (or the hovercraft-like 'cushion of air' as you like to call it) only comes into effect roughly at about a height equal to the diameter of the rotor blades or less.

You only vary the pitch (collective) in a helicopter to vary height and/or velocity, not to maintain a cushion of air.

Only than that, helicopters fly in a pretty similar fashion to airplanes. Next you'll be telling me helicopters fall out the sky when their engines fail

> Your talking about Helo's which is why
> there is a seperate forum for that
> subject here.

Ooh, meow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen an Apache, a Hind, several transport helos and a Lynx in Typhoon...in fact my Eurofighter got downed by Hind debris once. I don't recall anyone in the Enemy Engaged forum throwing a fit when someone was posting suicidal A10 pictures.

> Tactic's are completely different from
> winged aircraft

Suggest you read Robert Shaw's Fighter Combat: Tactics & Maneuvering. Notably the section about combat between high- and low-wing-loaded aircraft. Granted a helicopter is at the extreme end of the scale, but I'd certainly be wary about dogfighting one in a jet.

> Since one deal's predominatly with ground
> war and the other blend's the whole lot
> nicely!

Both deal with a dynamic war where your main threats are fast movers (that's things that 'fly' to you ) and SAM/AAA fire. I don't see a lot of difference except the Hellfires on my helicopter are more accurate...


Fletch

#558698 - 05/15/01 11:05 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt Plummer:

BVRAAM. Interesting, do you get any kind of midcourse uplink/TVM capability for the Meteor?

Nothing of the sort unfortunately. The missile goes active about a mile off the pylon and from then on in it's fire and forget.

Quote:

Seems somewhat fishy that you would get so few hits from such a large launch number at such short range. I also think they are badly underestimating the longpol energy of a constant impulse ramjet weapon.

The missiles in ET seem to have a simple PK. They are also seriously underestimated in terms of effectiveness. I have launched 12 missiles at a blasted cruise missile and have every sodding one miss before now. And yes, the enegy retention potential of the ramjet propulsion is just not modelled. Gameplay over realism and all that sort of thing.

Quote:

The only thing which could modify this would be very large formation stack/trail separations outside the ECR mechanical array TWS boundaries and given the 'generic' modelling of the sensors in general, that seems unlikely.

As I said, this level of modelling is absent.

Quote:

ASRAAM. Do all threats have a MAWS equivalent, 'break on launch', capability regardless of weapon type/firing range and do ASRAAM's lockon at BVR?

Yes. Even the blasted cruoise missiles which are BTW far more effective at dodging missiles. It goes well beyond a break on launch automated reaction though- it's full AI BFM!! As far as I can tel the ASRAMs are lock before launch in nature.

Quote:

'MiG-27s', with radar, snicker.

As does the Su-25.


Quote:

(Snip) seeing if you could draw them over FLOT into your SAM freefire lanes, first. No kill better than a freebe, even if you do have to hand off to the gruntnicks.

This proves to be impossible. The only SAMS featured are extreme short range types. Other than that it's all 50's style large calibre flak guns & ZSU-23-4 or equivalent for low altitude. For some reason though the T-90 as modelled also has a 10K RPM AA gun.

Cheers, Wulf.


------------------

#558699 - 05/15/01 02:23 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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You guy's are a scream!
Mention flight sim and everybody dig's out their "Bible of Flight"

I certainly *know* the principle's of ground effect and that all those "little wings" above your head in a helicopter are infact the same as aeroplane's..........but i'm not into boring the tit's off this subject as you guy's seem to do!

I'm certainly not going all defensive on a very boring and inapropriate subject
This is a forum for Typhoon *not* helo's.

This all started about a quote from the manual about Typhoon's "Totaly Dynamic" theatre. Now if you guy's can't accept that product's will come out and blow the ass off -what was once your little pride and joy-on your PC....then that's your complex problem not mine.

Once again, you got a problem about Dynamic campaign's(namely Ground war) Then bring it up with Steve? since it is their quote which you obviously can't handle............

I didn't write this so challenge Steve and hear it from the horses mouth!

Please read pages 48-49 of the manual

"Typhoon is a truly dynamic campaign within the theater of conflict. Events in other part's of the world will affect the campaign system. It is the first time we have modelled a campaign at so many levels.
Few if any other product's boast such a comprehensive system"


Christ helo's appear in the game........you can't fly them....and we end up with an extremist group!

Next we'll have angler's on the B&W forum because your creature *isn't* catching fish right and it's cruel!.......

What a paranoid bunch we have here?

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558700 - 05/15/01 02:36 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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For f*ck's sake man, take a chill pill! I just wanted to point out that you were having a pop at something different to your precious Typhoon. Not only what you were saying was incorrect but also you hadn't got proper knowledge of the sim/game you were having a go at!!!

I haven't bought Typhoon because someone who knows me and also EECH better than me has pointed out the learning curve is very steep for someone with NO jet sim experience. I would very much like to get into a proper jet sim based on a European product, but I know I would find it very frustrating without someone to explain a helluva lot to me. For that reason, I think my first jet sim will be LOMAC, as I believe the tutorial etc and the learning curve in that game will be enough to get me going.

EECH does have a dynamic campaign (one that permits individuals to rearm and refuel in the middle of a mission) and helos do "fly". So knickers to you!

Until both of us have both games, let's not indulge ourselves in stoopid comments eh? Christ, we both like these things...

Or should the fact that I haven't got this game mean I can't come here to read/enjoy/participate on this board?

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


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#558701 - 05/15/01 02:45 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer
lol
thats got to be one of the best posts i,ve read in a while!
Hey,lets be forum specific here-i dont have much time to read at this and other places and when i come here alls i want to read about is Typhoon.
Wanna post something interesting then tell me how you beat the dogfighting AI.
LOL
bobinski

------------------

#558702 - 05/15/01 02:55 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Bobinski - no, let's not be forum specific. Unless you all want to just sit around and read how great Typhoon is, and everything else (of course) is poop.


Foot down, head down...
#558703 - 05/15/01 03:13 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
I haven't bought Typhoon because someone who knows me and also EECH better than me has pointed out the learning curve is very steep for someone with NO jet sim experience.


Daveyraveygravey,
I would have to completely disagree here. I don't know you, but if you fly EECH at all regularly, this sim is probably one of the best choices available for someone wanting to get into jet sims. You understand dynamic campaigns and are obviously up to speed on modeled complexities.

I used to use USNF for newbies ... went to USAF for folks that wanted to see what jet sioms are all about. Great games that gave a good taste of the environemnt without too much off overwhelming control commands. I will be recommending Typhoon now. Half an hour with a key chart and you are ready to rock.

Typhoon is a fast learning curve ... in 3 or 4 missions you will be quite comfortable and playing in an awesome campaign environment.

Give it a look, I don't think you will have a tough time picking it up at all.

------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html

[This message has been edited by CRASH - SimHQ (edited 05-15-2001).]


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#558704 - 05/15/01 03:23 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Crash

When I saw it was you as the most recent post, I thought my number was up! I thought you were about to lock the thread as getting too inflammatory!

Perhaps I should bite the bullet, although I have to say the A10 has always held a certain fascination for me, and that is making me hang on for Lomac almost as much as the learning side...(oops, more non-Typhoon stuff... )


Foot down, head down...
#558705 - 05/15/01 03:36 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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bobinski Offline
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Daveyraveygravey
now i wasnt suggesting a love fest just posting that reflects the sim its strengths and,of course weaknesses.Dont you think the posts kinda went beyond that?
Now you havnt bought Typhoon and if theres anything you should be doing on this nice sunny day in London Town then its making your way to a store to buy it-Toms right,its a great intro to flying jet sims and damm good fun into the bargain.
Buy it ,play it and then you can join me and another sim newby mate in multiplayer sometime.
cheers
bobinski

#558706 - 05/15/01 03:39 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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bobinski Offline
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whoops!
sorry Crash calling you "tom"
there.
Daveyraveygravey
i would have thought that Typhoon would set you up rather nicely for Lomac.
bobinski

#558707 - 05/15/01 03:49 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Allright, I admit it, I don't like the idea of going to war on my third training mission, which is what happens in Typhoon right?
I am a huge fan of EECH, and there's lots of aids to fly the thing for you and it's very scaleable and you can muck around in free flight and you aren't just limited to 6 pilots before you have to re-start the campaign, and the avionics are quite simple.

Typhoon does sound fun, and the campaign sounds brilliant, I happen to think Tracer was incorrect in his first post in several areas. I've never been sucked into this near-flame fest before!


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#558708 - 05/15/01 04:06 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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One last post and then i am out of here.Tracer was right when he said this was a forum about typhoon..it is and thats the point i wanted to make really.
Mind you, i am kinda thinking i should also get hold of a copy of eech[insert smiley]

#558709 - 05/15/01 04:24 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Come on bobinksi, you need to be more receptive to other ideas...I think I may have tempted Wulfrick (back) into the "200 mph top whack" club...I think you can pick it up on budget.

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


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#558710 - 05/15/01 04:25 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Davey since you don't know me and i don't know you, please don't jump to assumption's and say that my first post was incorrect.

I own TFX,EF2000,TACTCOM,Super EF2000 Evolution,F22ADF,TAW and Wargasm from the DID range and had been very heavily into DID when they were around.

12year's i have been playing flight sim's -namely everything from Longbow1/2,A/H(on the helo front) through to RB1(being the oldest) and nigh on a few 30+ at least other major sim's ending in B-17 and EFT(the newest). The next being IL-2 Sturmovik.

You stated that Jet sim's are out of your depth -hence the attack to me about Helo's(yes i admit i don't like them too much purely because of the slowness of them that and when i lost pilot'/helo's in A/H you just sat about watching a blank screen not knowing when your next flight will/never come along. At least in EFT you can "see" what your pilot's are doing ) If you are *indeed* new to Jet's then EFT is a platform which will have you in the air and enjoying yourself with the simplest of knowledge needed!

The campaign is probably the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself,as when it unfold's you have to think wisely about moving pilot's away from the advancing Russians but also make sure that they will be used. I keep my strike pilot's slightly behind my A/A pilot's as they get scrambled instantly if an airfiled is under threat.

There is ton's more but since i was flying F4 and it's 600page manual and now B-17 with it's engine management it's taking me a while to come down from such an overdose on realism

The worst you could do is buy it from EB and take it back in 10 day's if it'd not your cup of tea eh?

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558711 - 05/15/01 05:18 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer

Just to be clear, it was your second thread I picked up on, the "I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim." in particular.

The EEAH campaign was dynamic (as others on this thread have said) and it was improved in EECH. You rarley sit around waiting for things to happen these days, and you can get round it once you know the game to a degree. EECH is not just EEAH with newer helos, other things were tweaked too. And surely you aren't that happy that you can't re-arm/refuel in Typhoon because the campaign can't handle it?

I also could point out to you that your line "The campaign is the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself" is not going to pour oil on troubled waters, but I won't. I suspect that there is more in common between Typhoon and EECH than you are willing to accept (simplified FM/avionics etc) it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!

I think I can add I may have tempted Wulfrick over to the "200 mph IS fast" club...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


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#558712 - 05/15/01 05:48 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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If the pilot wanted his aircraft rearmed/refueled he would have to wait 20 minutes in the real world......that might be a reason that it isn't modelled in Typhoon, as aircraft are very rarely just put back into a mission within a minute or two of landing. It is probably not a case of the campain being able to handle it or not....but the fact that if you could rearm/refuel in two minutes in the real world......you could beet the pants of the enemy..........it's all logistic crap, and it's just an opinion that is probably all wrong on my part!
Gone are the days of puting some fuel in and feeding the guns.....
Now you need to put in water(for harriers anyway) fuel, and get all those missiles on the pylons....something that takes a crew a good couple of minutes when not under combat conditions.....let alone combat conditions. If refueling and rearming were to be modelled in future games, it would be a good idea to add realistic times.....just to feel like how the pilot does when on the ground looking at a dogfight up above....and a sense of frustration to want to grab the ground crew and shout HURRY UP!!

------------------
If it aint bust, you haven't played with it enough!


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#558713 - 05/15/01 10:50 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Valleyboy,

You quoth truth IMO, but there is a better way.

Namely, have a realistic number of aircraft which can be 'till death do you part' assigned to support unit or frontal area X on a variable sorties lanes total quantity (lose planes in stupid missions and total sorties goes down as well).

Have the player retain three basic options:

1. Immediate unit tasking. This unit is under pressure so as long as they have total sorties available, they will get CAS or BAI support.

2. _Sorties_ tasked to 'exploitation' strategic goals that you think might be important a few steps down the road. Bridges, resupply, 2nd echelon, inter-unit gaps.

3. 'Generic Pool' which simply throws the player in-air to the cockpit of aircraft-X sorties he had given over to computer control when he 'just wanted to blow somethign up' (save himself some mission planning).

To be used based on where the game engine thought he should go for urgency and/or uniqueness (lots of antihelo, rescap, high threat area 'road recce 21' sensor laying and other interesting missions).

THE KEY BEING that you have XX# of total sorties available, per day, and that this is modified by a once a day 'surge' key so that the player can pick a place and stake his reputation if not his life to flying all availableX1.5 tasked sorties on a hotpit basis before the strategic analytical engine determines a 'turn' of frontal advances by his desparation kills etc.

This would adequately, _accurately_ fix what I currently feel are the most laughably inane 'features' of the current game:

1. If you can fly in tanks and planes and all the other assorted tools of war, you can fly in pilots. So that even if 'ICEFOR' was only a 2 or 4 ship detachment from a continental parent unit (as it is today with rotating F-15 units) at 1:1 manning you could quickly bring in replacements to achieve a reasonable 1.5 or greater ratio. Hell, where are all the 'allied' pilots coming from that get shot down every mission?

2. In such a tight operational area, with so few roads and so little builtup or indeed /vegetated/ cover; the game scenario should be more like an Entebbe raid than an Overlord. Because you would win or lose, hitting the primary objectives (which is all you would want to waste time upon) SNAP!, like that. And why assign so many heavy assets, needed so badly elsewhere, to such a high risk, need-it-right-now-to-be-useful, 'long term' goal? In _RSR_ the Russians were flying anti-REFORGER missions within 24hrs of their landing at the docks.

OTOH, even if you wanted to make it more like say Midway or Okinawa, then husbanding your _Total Sorties_ vs. the carrier cycle of an offshore CVBG and repetitive high speed (FAC and CSM) raiding parties looking to kill your C2 and Surveillance advantages as a function of catching you off-compass 'guard' for attritional annihilation, then having a full squadron and a reasonable range (literally) of overwater operations would be critical to defining how you wanted to defend against vs. prosecute actively that threat.

Which is really my biggest bitch. They created a bluewater theatre problem and then refuse to let us have more than a kneejerk reaction to killing the threat well out to sea. No theatre wide assets no long range maritime patrol. No Lacrosse or Keyhole or GHawk. Nothing. In 20xx. Bwuahahahahaahah.

There simply isn't enough force mass and (realistic) airfield optioning in Iceland for the place to be 'conventionally' saveable or worth taking otherwise, IMO.

The simplest longrange mortar or ATGW team could so quickly and readily be dropped in, infiltrate and close down your two primary MOB's if you let them 'surprise you' in getting that close and the Russians would be willing to throw away dozens if not hundreds of such teams. Hell, they might even LAPES down an SPG or three.

Because ultimately SOF capabilities are nothing to a conventional Euro land battle and so can be wasted or exploited with little care or consequence to their loss, elsewhere.

Occupation then becomes a far simpler matter, for them. Because they KNOW you're gonna want it back and they would simply throw out the entire populace into the snow and create an Israeli style 20nm no-habitation, leveled building, exclusion zone that forced your immitation response to come both by land and by sea, through a killing field a 1,000nm across.


KP

#558714 - 05/16/01 02:31 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Webster's dictionary:
flying- moving or capable of moving through the air with or as if with wings <~clouds>

By the way Tracer, Webster's has the definition that you posted as well. Something tells me that while you were telling the truth, you weren't telling the whole truth.

[This message has been edited by letterboy1 (edited 05-16-2001).]


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#558715 - 05/16/01 05:56 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
Tracer

Just to be clear, it was your second thread I picked up on, the "I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim." in particular.

The EEAH campaign was dynamic (as others on this thread have said) and it was improved in EECH. You rarley sit around waiting for things to happen these days, and you can get round it once you know the game to a degree. EECH is not just EEAH with newer helos, other things were tweaked too. And surely you aren't that happy that you can't re-arm/refuel in Typhoon because the campaign can't handle it?

I also could point out to you that your line "The campaign is the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself" is not going to pour oil on troubled waters, but I won't. I suspect that there is more in common between Typhoon and EECH than you are willing to accept (simplified FM/avionics etc) it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!

I think I can add I may have tempted Wulfrick over to the "200 mph IS fast" club...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


Obviously no pleasing you then..............why did i bother? hmmm i make peace and you persist about damn helo's!!!(NOT THE SLIGHT BIT INTERESTED IN MENTIONING ANYTHING I SAID ABOUT GETTING YOU INTERESTED IN EFT.............)
Then i say "buy from EB"(your from the UK so there is million's of EB's about(slight exageration but to the point non the less!)
That *all* offer a 10 day money back guarantee, for whatever reason and you still persist in saying "it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!"........your obviously *not* interested in EFT otherwise you would have gone out and bought it..........{shake's head}

Davey please put up or shutup......because this is getting pointless. What is your whole point then that you are trying to make?? Your obviously plugging the crap out of EECH and basicaly sound like you don't give a monkey's about EFT,instead just turning up here for argument's sake!

Even CRASH politely give's you a "shove" towards EFT! You; It's "not sure this" and "not sure that" if your going to find out anything Davey just go out and bloody buy the thing instead of being seriously nippy!

Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558716 - 05/17/01 11:07 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer - neither of us should be getting het up about this.

I just picked up on your statement that Typhoon had the first dynamic campaign, because it doesn't. It might be the MOST dynamic so far, but then it's only been released 2-3 weeks. EEAH and then EECH both had fully dynamic campaigns, as I and others have pointed out; I don't know enough about the other sims to comment.
How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!

You also then made some half-arsed comments about helicopter flight, which maybe were meant to be funny. How anyone who has any interest in man's efforts at conquering the skies fails to be interested by planes or choppers or missiles or whatever is beyond me. If you decide you don't like a game for whatever reason, that's your call, but you're missing out, not me.

You claim you made peace - how or where did you try to do that? Can you point that out now, because I'm damned if I see any attempts at peace making. You were also condescending to me, as I think I will find the campaign management of the game easier than fighter combat, certainly initially. I could be mistaken however...

It was Crash that gave some well-thought out and considered opinion on the suitability of the game to jet-sim newbies, although I don't think he was trying to pacify anyone.

I am not trying to plug anything, just keep the record straight, and possibly get you to give EECH a shot, as it is way better than EEAH.

Lastly, this whole thread is about other games and what their players may think about Typhoon, so why should we keep it to Typhoon only? This is supposed to be the information age, there's supposed to be a bit of a free-for-all going on. I could indicate who made the first reference to a.n.other game...

I have tried to avoid any negative reference to Typhoon here as I am not trying to piss anyone off. If I have, then I'm sorry. Maybe before you reply to this, you should take 5 mins, and think about what you're saying and how you say it. I will be buying the game (thanks to Crash) and when I've played it a while, no doubt I'll be back here, looking for help and opinions, maybe giving it too. I may be funny, I may be a jerk, I may make a tit of myself. If I am wrong or upset anyone, then I'll apologise...


Foot down, head down...
#558717 - 05/17/01 11:12 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


DRG,

You know that I fly many sims, EECH included. On the subject of EECH's dynamic campaign. It aint very dynamic, in so much as, the ground troops stop advancing after day-1 and just sit around at crossroads.

EFT is completely different and superior in that respect.

------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#558718 - 05/17/01 11:28 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Daveyraveygravey Offline
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Hen

I can quite readily believe it is a better and more dynamic campaign than EECH, hell it ought to be it's at least two years newer.

You always did have static ground troops though. They move about in my campaigns, I'm sure!


Foot down, head down...
#558719 - 05/17/01 01:44 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


DRG,

After Day-1 in EECH, my ground forces advance at approximately 1 metre per day. They move, but not very far

------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#558720 - 05/17/01 07:18 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Mispunt Offline
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Mispunt  Offline
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Yeah, very dynamic indeed, (hey, it's printed in the manual so it must be true)
I find it indeed very dynamic to completely rebuild control towers in a matter of hours after I dropped a mk84 on it. Hell it takes more time to fill up the crater it caused...

But besides that I love this game, worthy follow up on ef2000, great stuff guys!

#558721 - 05/17/01 08:26 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
Tracer - neither of us should be getting het up about this.

I just picked up on your statement that Typhoon had the first dynamic campaign, because it doesn't. It might be the MOST dynamic so far, but then it's only been released 2-3 weeks. EEAH and then EECH both had fully dynamic campaigns, as I and others have pointed out; I don't know enough about the other sims to comment.
How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!

I am not trying to plug anything, just keep the record straight, and possibly get you to give EECH a shot, as it is way better than EEAH.

Lastly, this whole thread is about other games and what their players may think about Typhoon, so why should we keep it to Typhoon only? This is supposed to be the information age, there's supposed to be a bit of a free-for-all going on. I could indicate who made the first reference to a.n.other game...

I have tried to avoid any negative reference to Typhoon here as I am not trying to piss anyone off. If I have, then I'm sorry. Maybe before you reply to this, you should take 5 mins, and think about what you're saying and how you say it. I will be buying the game (thanks to Crash) and when I've played it a while, no doubt I'll be back here, looking for help and opinions, maybe giving it too. I may be funny, I may be a jerk, I may make a tit of myself. If I am wrong or upset anyone, then I'll apologise...


I did not quote anything about Typhoon having *the first dynamic campaign*.....what i did quote was that it had the first fully dynamic GROUND WAR Read before coming out with such a rash statement..........
Since you *do not* have the game,you are digging yourself into one helluva ditch here....Rage quoted the ground war being *very* different from "other" sim's!

"Typhoon is a truly dynamic campaign within the theater of conflict. Events in other part's of the world will affect the campaign system. It is the first time we have modelled a campaign at so many levels.

Few if any other product's boast such a comprehensive system"


Can you not read/see the last part of their quote?

you say "How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!"

Sure i have heard of bull****!, but tell me what exactly would Rage/DID gain by telling a load of lies to it's loyal following?
Their product's have indeed been very,very revolutionary and they boast a BS EN ISO 9001 TickIT accreditation in 1997(currently *only* software company to achieve this) towards military training systems ie TIALD for Jaguar/Tornado Cockpit,night vision and gunnery training system's


A 4 million version of EF2000 was built as a trainer for the RAF around '97

TAW is used as a pilot training system for the USAF.

Indeed the system's that DID built for the armed forces have all been declassified and used to improve the quality and realism of their product's.

Oh but of course i "read that on their web page and manual's and it was announced at E3,so it *must* be propaganda"
as you say....hmmmmm.

I can tell you that the campaign is the best i have encountered! Yes you can see tank's engaged with your forces and see them marching into your airfield's. You also see the SU-25's come in under SU-27 escort! All this happen's at once....but then you do not have the game eh?

I was thoroughly put off by A/H (i explained my reason's earlier) I played the demo -again did not enjoy it.

This forum/thread is about people interested in improving and/or needing help with Typhoon!
*Not* for jumping in like a headless chicken and causing needless grief.(read: making reference's quote's about a game you do not have)

I made my point's about EECH/ A/H *bluntly* because i haven't got the time nor patience to "go on about" something like those above two game's. The mechanic's of helicopter flight i'm very much up on...but i *do not* need to make a "song and dance" about it to prove my knowledge, do i!
As much as i understand your "desire" to influence other player's into EECH....if i was/or other's interested in EECH surely i/they would go over to the Helo forum?????
Does that not make logical sense?

Rather than you canvasing for EECH support on a Eurofighter Typhoon Forum is beyond me.

Sometime's people like to make there own choice's in what games they play..Rather than have someone come along and force feed them what they think you should be playing/is best.

Think about it Davey?

Tracer




------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558722 - 05/18/01 09:49 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Hope you're proud of yourself. We've both misunderstood what each other wrote, and I don't think either of us have covered ourselves in glory have we?

In the interests of everyone's sanity I won't post on this thread anymore, unless it goes off in a new direction and I have something releveant to add. I know I'm right and you're wrong, but you probably feel the same way.

You are way way wrong if you think this board should exclude any other sim. The point of the thread at the start was to seek opinions about Typhoon from people who know other games. And if you think I am just going to go away and ignore you just because you rant and rave...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-18-2001).]


Foot down, head down...
#558723 - 05/18/01 02:34 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Davey your so obtuse, You hit the nail on the head finaly-through your own post(but you clearly miss your own point you make.........)
The original poster; Casey asked whether it would be fun to move on to Typhoon from F-15 or F-18.

I own F-15 so i gave him my opinion ok
You came in charging about EECH campaign(nothing to do with the topic) and totaly misconstrued my *clear* quote about Typhoon's Dynamic ground campaign.....you babble on and try and change the subject,this time talking about helicopter flight(i explain my reason's behind this)
Other poster's that *own* EECH voice their opinion's on how dynamic EECH's ground war *isn't*
You still go on about a game that you do not own *but* instead go on propmoting EECH on a Typhoon forum! You got share's or something??

Casey the original poster had previously owned jet sim's therefor wanted to know how "lite" this was?

You completely changed the subject heading around and turned into a bloody pointless show of arrogance and couldn't back down after making such a fool of yourself

I explained why i made my comment's about helo's in general( they bore me ok) I explained that to you and everyone else that patronised me with their "mechanic's of flight lecture"

Davey If you are clearly interested in Typhoon.......why for the love of god do you KEEP GOING ON ABOUT EECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you should be asking more question's about Typhoon(like Casey)

I'm sick to the back teeth of this "coversation" with someone -IMHO- that isn't interested in the subject matter *you*

This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it...
The idea is to give people help/advice/opinion's on Typhoon Which i clearly did at the beginning before being sucked into this washing machine with you!


Admin sorry

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558724 - 05/18/01 03:03 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Like I said before, take a chill pill. You seem to ignore what people say and make your points regardless.

I haven't said anything about winning anywhere. I haven't particularly enjoyed this, I hope you feel as shit as I do about it. You certainly ought to

I did not bring EECH (or EEAH, whatever) into this thread; I did not "try and change the subject;" I did not bring up the subject of helicopter flight; I am (still) not promoting anything, and I haven't ever been obtuse, arrogant or patronising.

I still have one question - and I quote -"This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it... " Where have I said anything about winning?

See you around...I got shares to count up...

One thing we agree on - sorry admin.


Foot down, head down...
#558725 - 05/19/01 02:31 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:"I still have one question - and I quote -"This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it... " Where have I said anything about winning?"

He say's AFTER editing it out of his last post...................what a sad person....................................................................................

#558726 - 05/21/01 02:16 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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You and me both matey.
Sad that is.


Foot down, head down...
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