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#558707 - 05/15/01 03:49 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Allright, I admit it, I don't like the idea of going to war on my third training mission, which is what happens in Typhoon right?
I am a huge fan of EECH, and there's lots of aids to fly the thing for you and it's very scaleable and you can muck around in free flight and you aren't just limited to 6 pilots before you have to re-start the campaign, and the avionics are quite simple.

Typhoon does sound fun, and the campaign sounds brilliant, I happen to think Tracer was incorrect in his first post in several areas. I've never been sucked into this near-flame fest before!


Foot down, head down...
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#558708 - 05/15/01 04:06 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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One last post and then i am out of here.Tracer was right when he said this was a forum about typhoon..it is and thats the point i wanted to make really.
Mind you, i am kinda thinking i should also get hold of a copy of eech[insert smiley]

#558709 - 05/15/01 04:24 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Come on bobinksi, you need to be more receptive to other ideas...I think I may have tempted Wulfrick (back) into the "200 mph top whack" club...I think you can pick it up on budget.

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


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#558710 - 05/15/01 04:25 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Davey since you don't know me and i don't know you, please don't jump to assumption's and say that my first post was incorrect.

I own TFX,EF2000,TACTCOM,Super EF2000 Evolution,F22ADF,TAW and Wargasm from the DID range and had been very heavily into DID when they were around.

12year's i have been playing flight sim's -namely everything from Longbow1/2,A/H(on the helo front) through to RB1(being the oldest) and nigh on a few 30+ at least other major sim's ending in B-17 and EFT(the newest). The next being IL-2 Sturmovik.

You stated that Jet sim's are out of your depth -hence the attack to me about Helo's(yes i admit i don't like them too much purely because of the slowness of them that and when i lost pilot'/helo's in A/H you just sat about watching a blank screen not knowing when your next flight will/never come along. At least in EFT you can "see" what your pilot's are doing ) If you are *indeed* new to Jet's then EFT is a platform which will have you in the air and enjoying yourself with the simplest of knowledge needed!

The campaign is probably the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself,as when it unfold's you have to think wisely about moving pilot's away from the advancing Russians but also make sure that they will be used. I keep my strike pilot's slightly behind my A/A pilot's as they get scrambled instantly if an airfiled is under threat.

There is ton's more but since i was flying F4 and it's 600page manual and now B-17 with it's engine management it's taking me a while to come down from such an overdose on realism

The worst you could do is buy it from EB and take it back in 10 day's if it'd not your cup of tea eh?

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558711 - 05/15/01 05:18 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer

Just to be clear, it was your second thread I picked up on, the "I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim." in particular.

The EEAH campaign was dynamic (as others on this thread have said) and it was improved in EECH. You rarley sit around waiting for things to happen these days, and you can get round it once you know the game to a degree. EECH is not just EEAH with newer helos, other things were tweaked too. And surely you aren't that happy that you can't re-arm/refuel in Typhoon because the campaign can't handle it?

I also could point out to you that your line "The campaign is the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself" is not going to pour oil on troubled waters, but I won't. I suspect that there is more in common between Typhoon and EECH than you are willing to accept (simplified FM/avionics etc) it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!

I think I can add I may have tempted Wulfrick over to the "200 mph IS fast" club...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


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#558712 - 05/15/01 05:48 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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If the pilot wanted his aircraft rearmed/refueled he would have to wait 20 minutes in the real world......that might be a reason that it isn't modelled in Typhoon, as aircraft are very rarely just put back into a mission within a minute or two of landing. It is probably not a case of the campain being able to handle it or not....but the fact that if you could rearm/refuel in two minutes in the real world......you could beet the pants of the enemy..........it's all logistic crap, and it's just an opinion that is probably all wrong on my part!
Gone are the days of puting some fuel in and feeding the guns.....
Now you need to put in water(for harriers anyway) fuel, and get all those missiles on the pylons....something that takes a crew a good couple of minutes when not under combat conditions.....let alone combat conditions. If refueling and rearming were to be modelled in future games, it would be a good idea to add realistic times.....just to feel like how the pilot does when on the ground looking at a dogfight up above....and a sense of frustration to want to grab the ground crew and shout HURRY UP!!

------------------
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#558713 - 05/15/01 10:50 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Valleyboy,

You quoth truth IMO, but there is a better way.

Namely, have a realistic number of aircraft which can be 'till death do you part' assigned to support unit or frontal area X on a variable sorties lanes total quantity (lose planes in stupid missions and total sorties goes down as well).

Have the player retain three basic options:

1. Immediate unit tasking. This unit is under pressure so as long as they have total sorties available, they will get CAS or BAI support.

2. _Sorties_ tasked to 'exploitation' strategic goals that you think might be important a few steps down the road. Bridges, resupply, 2nd echelon, inter-unit gaps.

3. 'Generic Pool' which simply throws the player in-air to the cockpit of aircraft-X sorties he had given over to computer control when he 'just wanted to blow somethign up' (save himself some mission planning).

To be used based on where the game engine thought he should go for urgency and/or uniqueness (lots of antihelo, rescap, high threat area 'road recce 21' sensor laying and other interesting missions).

THE KEY BEING that you have XX# of total sorties available, per day, and that this is modified by a once a day 'surge' key so that the player can pick a place and stake his reputation if not his life to flying all availableX1.5 tasked sorties on a hotpit basis before the strategic analytical engine determines a 'turn' of frontal advances by his desparation kills etc.

This would adequately, _accurately_ fix what I currently feel are the most laughably inane 'features' of the current game:

1. If you can fly in tanks and planes and all the other assorted tools of war, you can fly in pilots. So that even if 'ICEFOR' was only a 2 or 4 ship detachment from a continental parent unit (as it is today with rotating F-15 units) at 1:1 manning you could quickly bring in replacements to achieve a reasonable 1.5 or greater ratio. Hell, where are all the 'allied' pilots coming from that get shot down every mission?

2. In such a tight operational area, with so few roads and so little builtup or indeed /vegetated/ cover; the game scenario should be more like an Entebbe raid than an Overlord. Because you would win or lose, hitting the primary objectives (which is all you would want to waste time upon) SNAP!, like that. And why assign so many heavy assets, needed so badly elsewhere, to such a high risk, need-it-right-now-to-be-useful, 'long term' goal? In _RSR_ the Russians were flying anti-REFORGER missions within 24hrs of their landing at the docks.

OTOH, even if you wanted to make it more like say Midway or Okinawa, then husbanding your _Total Sorties_ vs. the carrier cycle of an offshore CVBG and repetitive high speed (FAC and CSM) raiding parties looking to kill your C2 and Surveillance advantages as a function of catching you off-compass 'guard' for attritional annihilation, then having a full squadron and a reasonable range (literally) of overwater operations would be critical to defining how you wanted to defend against vs. prosecute actively that threat.

Which is really my biggest bitch. They created a bluewater theatre problem and then refuse to let us have more than a kneejerk reaction to killing the threat well out to sea. No theatre wide assets no long range maritime patrol. No Lacrosse or Keyhole or GHawk. Nothing. In 20xx. Bwuahahahahaahah.

There simply isn't enough force mass and (realistic) airfield optioning in Iceland for the place to be 'conventionally' saveable or worth taking otherwise, IMO.

The simplest longrange mortar or ATGW team could so quickly and readily be dropped in, infiltrate and close down your two primary MOB's if you let them 'surprise you' in getting that close and the Russians would be willing to throw away dozens if not hundreds of such teams. Hell, they might even LAPES down an SPG or three.

Because ultimately SOF capabilities are nothing to a conventional Euro land battle and so can be wasted or exploited with little care or consequence to their loss, elsewhere.

Occupation then becomes a far simpler matter, for them. Because they KNOW you're gonna want it back and they would simply throw out the entire populace into the snow and create an Israeli style 20nm no-habitation, leveled building, exclusion zone that forced your immitation response to come both by land and by sea, through a killing field a 1,000nm across.


KP

#558714 - 05/16/01 02:31 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Webster's dictionary:
flying- moving or capable of moving through the air with or as if with wings <~clouds>

By the way Tracer, Webster's has the definition that you posted as well. Something tells me that while you were telling the truth, you weren't telling the whole truth.

[This message has been edited by letterboy1 (edited 05-16-2001).]


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#558715 - 05/16/01 05:56 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
Tracer

Just to be clear, it was your second thread I picked up on, the "I quoted Ground War.............sigh........AND the campaign in A/H was *heavily* scripted and repetitive AND it's a helicopter sim......nothing to do with a FLIGHT sim." in particular.

The EEAH campaign was dynamic (as others on this thread have said) and it was improved in EECH. You rarley sit around waiting for things to happen these days, and you can get round it once you know the game to a degree. EECH is not just EEAH with newer helos, other things were tweaked too. And surely you aren't that happy that you can't re-arm/refuel in Typhoon because the campaign can't handle it?

I also could point out to you that your line "The campaign is the hardest thing to manage for someone like yourself" is not going to pour oil on troubled waters, but I won't. I suspect that there is more in common between Typhoon and EECH than you are willing to accept (simplified FM/avionics etc) it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!

I think I can add I may have tempted Wulfrick over to the "200 mph IS fast" club...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


Obviously no pleasing you then..............why did i bother? hmmm i make peace and you persist about damn helo's!!!(NOT THE SLIGHT BIT INTERESTED IN MENTIONING ANYTHING I SAID ABOUT GETTING YOU INTERESTED IN EFT.............)
Then i say "buy from EB"(your from the UK so there is million's of EB's about(slight exageration but to the point non the less!)
That *all* offer a 10 day money back guarantee, for whatever reason and you still persist in saying "it's just it will only cost you a tenner to find out and me three times that much!"........your obviously *not* interested in EFT otherwise you would have gone out and bought it..........{shake's head}

Davey please put up or shutup......because this is getting pointless. What is your whole point then that you are trying to make?? Your obviously plugging the crap out of EECH and basicaly sound like you don't give a monkey's about EFT,instead just turning up here for argument's sake!

Even CRASH politely give's you a "shove" towards EFT! You; It's "not sure this" and "not sure that" if your going to find out anything Davey just go out and bloody buy the thing instead of being seriously nippy!

Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558716 - 05/17/01 11:07 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer - neither of us should be getting het up about this.

I just picked up on your statement that Typhoon had the first dynamic campaign, because it doesn't. It might be the MOST dynamic so far, but then it's only been released 2-3 weeks. EEAH and then EECH both had fully dynamic campaigns, as I and others have pointed out; I don't know enough about the other sims to comment.
How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!

You also then made some half-arsed comments about helicopter flight, which maybe were meant to be funny. How anyone who has any interest in man's efforts at conquering the skies fails to be interested by planes or choppers or missiles or whatever is beyond me. If you decide you don't like a game for whatever reason, that's your call, but you're missing out, not me.

You claim you made peace - how or where did you try to do that? Can you point that out now, because I'm damned if I see any attempts at peace making. You were also condescending to me, as I think I will find the campaign management of the game easier than fighter combat, certainly initially. I could be mistaken however...

It was Crash that gave some well-thought out and considered opinion on the suitability of the game to jet-sim newbies, although I don't think he was trying to pacify anyone.

I am not trying to plug anything, just keep the record straight, and possibly get you to give EECH a shot, as it is way better than EEAH.

Lastly, this whole thread is about other games and what their players may think about Typhoon, so why should we keep it to Typhoon only? This is supposed to be the information age, there's supposed to be a bit of a free-for-all going on. I could indicate who made the first reference to a.n.other game...

I have tried to avoid any negative reference to Typhoon here as I am not trying to piss anyone off. If I have, then I'm sorry. Maybe before you reply to this, you should take 5 mins, and think about what you're saying and how you say it. I will be buying the game (thanks to Crash) and when I've played it a while, no doubt I'll be back here, looking for help and opinions, maybe giving it too. I may be funny, I may be a jerk, I may make a tit of myself. If I am wrong or upset anyone, then I'll apologise...


Foot down, head down...
#558717 - 05/17/01 11:12 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

**DONOTDELETE**
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DRG,

You know that I fly many sims, EECH included. On the subject of EECH's dynamic campaign. It aint very dynamic, in so much as, the ground troops stop advancing after day-1 and just sit around at crossroads.

EFT is completely different and superior in that respect.

------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#558718 - 05/17/01 11:28 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Hen

I can quite readily believe it is a better and more dynamic campaign than EECH, hell it ought to be it's at least two years newer.

You always did have static ground troops though. They move about in my campaigns, I'm sure!


Foot down, head down...
#558719 - 05/17/01 01:44 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

**DONOTDELETE**
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DRG,

After Day-1 in EECH, my ground forces advance at approximately 1 metre per day. They move, but not very far

------------------
\:\)

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site.
http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley

#558720 - 05/17/01 07:18 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Yeah, very dynamic indeed, (hey, it's printed in the manual so it must be true)
I find it indeed very dynamic to completely rebuild control towers in a matter of hours after I dropped a mk84 on it. Hell it takes more time to fill up the crater it caused...

But besides that I love this game, worthy follow up on ef2000, great stuff guys!

#558721 - 05/17/01 08:26 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
Tracer - neither of us should be getting het up about this.

I just picked up on your statement that Typhoon had the first dynamic campaign, because it doesn't. It might be the MOST dynamic so far, but then it's only been released 2-3 weeks. EEAH and then EECH both had fully dynamic campaigns, as I and others have pointed out; I don't know enough about the other sims to comment.
How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!

I am not trying to plug anything, just keep the record straight, and possibly get you to give EECH a shot, as it is way better than EEAH.

Lastly, this whole thread is about other games and what their players may think about Typhoon, so why should we keep it to Typhoon only? This is supposed to be the information age, there's supposed to be a bit of a free-for-all going on. I could indicate who made the first reference to a.n.other game...

I have tried to avoid any negative reference to Typhoon here as I am not trying to piss anyone off. If I have, then I'm sorry. Maybe before you reply to this, you should take 5 mins, and think about what you're saying and how you say it. I will be buying the game (thanks to Crash) and when I've played it a while, no doubt I'll be back here, looking for help and opinions, maybe giving it too. I may be funny, I may be a jerk, I may make a tit of myself. If I am wrong or upset anyone, then I'll apologise...


I did not quote anything about Typhoon having *the first dynamic campaign*.....what i did quote was that it had the first fully dynamic GROUND WAR Read before coming out with such a rash statement..........
Since you *do not* have the game,you are digging yourself into one helluva ditch here....Rage quoted the ground war being *very* different from "other" sim's!

"Typhoon is a truly dynamic campaign within the theater of conflict. Events in other part's of the world will affect the campaign system. It is the first time we have modelled a campaign at so many levels.

Few if any other product's boast such a comprehensive system"


Can you not read/see the last part of their quote?

you say "How you can quote the Typhoon manual to back you up is beyond me. Ever heard of marketing or propaganda?!"

Sure i have heard of bull****!, but tell me what exactly would Rage/DID gain by telling a load of lies to it's loyal following?
Their product's have indeed been very,very revolutionary and they boast a BS EN ISO 9001 TickIT accreditation in 1997(currently *only* software company to achieve this) towards military training systems ie TIALD for Jaguar/Tornado Cockpit,night vision and gunnery training system's


A 4 million version of EF2000 was built as a trainer for the RAF around '97

TAW is used as a pilot training system for the USAF.

Indeed the system's that DID built for the armed forces have all been declassified and used to improve the quality and realism of their product's.

Oh but of course i "read that on their web page and manual's and it was announced at E3,so it *must* be propaganda"
as you say....hmmmmm.

I can tell you that the campaign is the best i have encountered! Yes you can see tank's engaged with your forces and see them marching into your airfield's. You also see the SU-25's come in under SU-27 escort! All this happen's at once....but then you do not have the game eh?

I was thoroughly put off by A/H (i explained my reason's earlier) I played the demo -again did not enjoy it.

This forum/thread is about people interested in improving and/or needing help with Typhoon!
*Not* for jumping in like a headless chicken and causing needless grief.(read: making reference's quote's about a game you do not have)

I made my point's about EECH/ A/H *bluntly* because i haven't got the time nor patience to "go on about" something like those above two game's. The mechanic's of helicopter flight i'm very much up on...but i *do not* need to make a "song and dance" about it to prove my knowledge, do i!
As much as i understand your "desire" to influence other player's into EECH....if i was/or other's interested in EECH surely i/they would go over to the Helo forum?????
Does that not make logical sense?

Rather than you canvasing for EECH support on a Eurofighter Typhoon Forum is beyond me.

Sometime's people like to make there own choice's in what games they play..Rather than have someone come along and force feed them what they think you should be playing/is best.

Think about it Davey?

Tracer




------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558722 - 05/18/01 09:49 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Hope you're proud of yourself. We've both misunderstood what each other wrote, and I don't think either of us have covered ourselves in glory have we?

In the interests of everyone's sanity I won't post on this thread anymore, unless it goes off in a new direction and I have something releveant to add. I know I'm right and you're wrong, but you probably feel the same way.

You are way way wrong if you think this board should exclude any other sim. The point of the thread at the start was to seek opinions about Typhoon from people who know other games. And if you think I am just going to go away and ignore you just because you rant and rave...

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-18-2001).]


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#558723 - 05/18/01 02:34 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Davey your so obtuse, You hit the nail on the head finaly-through your own post(but you clearly miss your own point you make.........)
The original poster; Casey asked whether it would be fun to move on to Typhoon from F-15 or F-18.

I own F-15 so i gave him my opinion ok
You came in charging about EECH campaign(nothing to do with the topic) and totaly misconstrued my *clear* quote about Typhoon's Dynamic ground campaign.....you babble on and try and change the subject,this time talking about helicopter flight(i explain my reason's behind this)
Other poster's that *own* EECH voice their opinion's on how dynamic EECH's ground war *isn't*
You still go on about a game that you do not own *but* instead go on propmoting EECH on a Typhoon forum! You got share's or something??

Casey the original poster had previously owned jet sim's therefor wanted to know how "lite" this was?

You completely changed the subject heading around and turned into a bloody pointless show of arrogance and couldn't back down after making such a fool of yourself

I explained why i made my comment's about helo's in general( they bore me ok) I explained that to you and everyone else that patronised me with their "mechanic's of flight lecture"

Davey If you are clearly interested in Typhoon.......why for the love of god do you KEEP GOING ON ABOUT EECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you should be asking more question's about Typhoon(like Casey)

I'm sick to the back teeth of this "coversation" with someone -IMHO- that isn't interested in the subject matter *you*

This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it...
The idea is to give people help/advice/opinion's on Typhoon Which i clearly did at the beginning before being sucked into this washing machine with you!


Admin sorry

Tracer


------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558724 - 05/18/01 03:03 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Like I said before, take a chill pill. You seem to ignore what people say and make your points regardless.

I haven't said anything about winning anywhere. I haven't particularly enjoyed this, I hope you feel as shit as I do about it. You certainly ought to

I did not bring EECH (or EEAH, whatever) into this thread; I did not "try and change the subject;" I did not bring up the subject of helicopter flight; I am (still) not promoting anything, and I haven't ever been obtuse, arrogant or patronising.

I still have one question - and I quote -"This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it... " Where have I said anything about winning?

See you around...I got shares to count up...

One thing we agree on - sorry admin.


Foot down, head down...
#558725 - 05/19/01 02:31 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:"I still have one question - and I quote -"This is nothing to do with "winning" as you so egotisticaly put it... " Where have I said anything about winning?"

He say's AFTER editing it out of his last post...................what a sad person....................................................................................

#558726 - 05/21/01 02:16 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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You and me both matey.
Sad that is.


Foot down, head down...
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by NoFlyBoy. 04/12/24 01:41 PM
OJ Simpson Dead at 76
by bones. 04/11/24 03:02 PM
They wokefied tomb raider !!
by Blade_RJ. 04/10/24 03:09 PM
Good F-35 Podcast
by RossUK. 04/08/24 09:02 AM
Gleda Estes
by Tarnsman. 04/06/24 06:22 PM
Food Safety and Bad Roommates
by KRT_Bong. 04/04/24 02:16 AM
Incredible historical ironies
by PanzerMeyer. 04/03/24 01:56 PM
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