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#558687 - 05/14/01 03:48 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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ASRAAM.

Since the ASRAAM was meant to replace the AIM-9L and AIM-9L, and was eventually dropped by the US in favour of "their ASRAAM" the AIM-9X, one can assume that the ASRAAM does everything the AIM-9X does, only the thing is bigger, and has an off-boresight capability.

The reason the US rejected it was because the missile was too big. (I think)

Gavin

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#558688 - 05/14/01 07:53 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gavin Bennett:
ASRAAM.

The reason the US rejected it was because the missile was too big. (I think)


I doubt that; overall the ASRAAM isn't much bigger than the AIM-9L, and I'd remind you that the Americans tend to use the AMRAAM off Sidewinder launch rails, too, and that's definietly bigger than ASRAAM.

More likely the Americans were showing their institutional arrogance when it comes to buying weapons from overseas... [g]

[Dons flameproof suit]



------------------
Mike Rovardi
BAE Systems Warton
Please note opinions expressed in my posts are my own and not those of my employer

#558689 - 05/14/01 10:45 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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>More likely the Americans were showing >their institutional arrogance when it comes >to buying weapons from overseas... [g]

>[Dons flameproof suit]

Is it bulletproof too? It better be AIM-9X proof just to be sure!
Just think, if they wanted the best IR missiles, they would be buying from the russians by now.....the theory goes that if the warhead is large enough, it doesn't matter if you miss! BOOM!


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#558690 - 05/14/01 11:54 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Guess who is making they Iceland Theater for F4

this was one of my biggest reason to buy Typhoon right away..lol


Widowmaker aka Metalhead

Quote:
Originally posted by FAngs32:

First off:

As there's an Iceland scenario in dev. for F4 ;-)


FAngs32-444 VFS
RP Group


#558691 - 05/14/01 02:28 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ballistic:
3. Helicopters *fly*. Now I don't know how you manage to define flight sim as different from helicopter sim, that one sure beats me. You'll be tempting me to argue jet sims aren't flight sims because you have a computer to do the flying, and WW1 is the only true flight genre

And before you ask, yes, I have Eurofighter Typhoon...




Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Which is what i define a flight sim by.
Your talking about Helo's which is why there is a seperate forum for that subject here. Tactic's are completely different from winged aircraft and trying to blend EFT with A/H EECH is rather like chalk and cheese don't you agree? Since one deal's predominatly with ground war and the other blend's the whole lot nicely!

Tracer



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#558692 - 05/14/01 04:55 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer! I can't believe you're serious!!!

But anyway, maybe you should shell out the tenner you need for EECH these days, spend a little time downloading the various amazing mods some guys have been doing and give it a go?

I know since the mods became available it has become an even better GAME and perhaps a closer simulation. There's nothing like trying to keep at flying-fish heights (and speed!) to get close enough to a carrier to take it out. Oh, I forgot, it's not really flying is it? It's just hanging from that whirly thing above right?

And yes, maybe I DO need to go buy Typhoon before I slag it off. But then, I didn't slag it off, did I?

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-14-2001).]


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#558693 - 05/14/01 05:03 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer[formerly of CS]:
Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Which is what i define a flight sim by.
Your talking about Helo's which is why there is a seperate forum for that subject here. Tactic's are completely different from winged aircraft and trying to blend EFT with A/H EECH is rather like chalk and cheese don't you agree? Since one deal's predominatly with ground war and the other blend's the whole lot nicely!

Tracer



Actually, in forward flight helos fly very much like a aeroplanes, they just have other options from stalling!

#558694 - 05/14/01 05:04 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Ah jaysus Len.

You would have to wax lyrical about Typhoon wouldn't you?

I want this goddamn sim!

GRRRRRRRR!

;-)

Gavin

#558695 - 05/14/01 05:30 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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I think Tracer's arguments got covered pretty well already so I come directly to you, Uroboros (just so you don't think I'd ignore you on purpose ).

Have you actually played Typhoon yet? If not; why don't you reserve judgement until you do.

And if yes?
Because I did play it and I probably still would, if it would work with my throttle.

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 05-14-2001).]

#558696 - 05/14/01 06:46 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Well, I don't know why we're talking about helos now, but, Tracer, helicopters do have wings; rotary wings. Now, I don't know what dictionary you were looking at, but lets address this:
Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
Fly:Move through the air,esp on wings or in an aircraft source: Oxford English Dictionary.
Their lift is created and maintained by the rotating blades. They hover,ride on a cushion of air created by varying pitch etc but by no means have *wing's* which provide lift and maintain it in a forward motion.Hardpoint's *are* not wing's

Helicopters do not fly by use of a cushion of air! They hover when at extremely low altitude (say 20 meters more or less, depending on model) using ground effects (what you referred to as hovering), but they do not fly on a cushion of air (LOL). Helicopters fly much the same way as fixed wing aircraft. They both use Bernoulli's Principle of lift. Because their wings are not movable, hence the name "fixed wing," these fixed wing A/C achieve lift by pushing the entire airframe through the air. While Helos, on the other hand, move the wing (or the "blades" you refer to) in it's entirety, through the air to achieve lift. Both types of craft uses wings and the aforementioned Bernoulli's Principle. A cross section of both types of wings would reveal to you their basic shape to be identical in concept. So, if you do not think of helos as true flight sims, your definition of a flight sim is beyond the basic principles of flight. Which is fine, nothing wrong with it, to each his own. However, do know that helicopters are AIRCRAFT. BTW, not an evil tempered reply at all (and I know I have a bad reputation for those ).

Also, back to EEAH. Tracer, you say it wasn't a dynamic campaign. How do you figure!? The only difference, in the following areas you specified is in EEAH & EECH there is no scripted events. So, how can those Razorworks titles not have a dynamic campaign?

Combat AI
Dynamic

Mission Planning
Dynamic

Resource modelling
Dynamic

Strategic modelling
Dynamic

Extra theater influences
scripted




[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-14-2001).]


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#558697 - 05/14/01 09:41 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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> Helicopter's do not fly in the true sense.
> They hover,ride on a cushion of air
> created by varying pitch

Heheh, thank you. I've never had so much fun so early on.

FYI, Ground effect (or the hovercraft-like 'cushion of air' as you like to call it) only comes into effect roughly at about a height equal to the diameter of the rotor blades or less.

You only vary the pitch (collective) in a helicopter to vary height and/or velocity, not to maintain a cushion of air.

Only than that, helicopters fly in a pretty similar fashion to airplanes. Next you'll be telling me helicopters fall out the sky when their engines fail

> Your talking about Helo's which is why
> there is a seperate forum for that
> subject here.

Ooh, meow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen an Apache, a Hind, several transport helos and a Lynx in Typhoon...in fact my Eurofighter got downed by Hind debris once. I don't recall anyone in the Enemy Engaged forum throwing a fit when someone was posting suicidal A10 pictures.

> Tactic's are completely different from
> winged aircraft

Suggest you read Robert Shaw's Fighter Combat: Tactics & Maneuvering. Notably the section about combat between high- and low-wing-loaded aircraft. Granted a helicopter is at the extreme end of the scale, but I'd certainly be wary about dogfighting one in a jet.

> Since one deal's predominatly with ground
> war and the other blend's the whole lot
> nicely!

Both deal with a dynamic war where your main threats are fast movers (that's things that 'fly' to you ) and SAM/AAA fire. I don't see a lot of difference except the Hellfires on my helicopter are more accurate...


Fletch

#558698 - 05/15/01 11:05 AM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt Plummer:

BVRAAM. Interesting, do you get any kind of midcourse uplink/TVM capability for the Meteor?

Nothing of the sort unfortunately. The missile goes active about a mile off the pylon and from then on in it's fire and forget.

Quote:

Seems somewhat fishy that you would get so few hits from such a large launch number at such short range. I also think they are badly underestimating the longpol energy of a constant impulse ramjet weapon.

The missiles in ET seem to have a simple PK. They are also seriously underestimated in terms of effectiveness. I have launched 12 missiles at a blasted cruise missile and have every sodding one miss before now. And yes, the enegy retention potential of the ramjet propulsion is just not modelled. Gameplay over realism and all that sort of thing.

Quote:

The only thing which could modify this would be very large formation stack/trail separations outside the ECR mechanical array TWS boundaries and given the 'generic' modelling of the sensors in general, that seems unlikely.

As I said, this level of modelling is absent.

Quote:

ASRAAM. Do all threats have a MAWS equivalent, 'break on launch', capability regardless of weapon type/firing range and do ASRAAM's lockon at BVR?

Yes. Even the blasted cruoise missiles which are BTW far more effective at dodging missiles. It goes well beyond a break on launch automated reaction though- it's full AI BFM!! As far as I can tel the ASRAMs are lock before launch in nature.

Quote:

'MiG-27s', with radar, snicker.

As does the Su-25.


Quote:

(Snip) seeing if you could draw them over FLOT into your SAM freefire lanes, first. No kill better than a freebe, even if you do have to hand off to the gruntnicks.

This proves to be impossible. The only SAMS featured are extreme short range types. Other than that it's all 50's style large calibre flak guns & ZSU-23-4 or equivalent for low altitude. For some reason though the T-90 as modelled also has a 10K RPM AA gun.

Cheers, Wulf.


------------------

#558699 - 05/15/01 02:23 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
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You guy's are a scream!
Mention flight sim and everybody dig's out their "Bible of Flight"

I certainly *know* the principle's of ground effect and that all those "little wings" above your head in a helicopter are infact the same as aeroplane's..........but i'm not into boring the tit's off this subject as you guy's seem to do!

I'm certainly not going all defensive on a very boring and inapropriate subject
This is a forum for Typhoon *not* helo's.

This all started about a quote from the manual about Typhoon's "Totaly Dynamic" theatre. Now if you guy's can't accept that product's will come out and blow the ass off -what was once your little pride and joy-on your PC....then that's your complex problem not mine.

Once again, you got a problem about Dynamic campaign's(namely Ground war) Then bring it up with Steve? since it is their quote which you obviously can't handle............

I didn't write this so challenge Steve and hear it from the horses mouth!

Please read pages 48-49 of the manual

"Typhoon is a truly dynamic campaign within the theater of conflict. Events in other part's of the world will affect the campaign system. It is the first time we have modelled a campaign at so many levels.
Few if any other product's boast such a comprehensive system"


Christ helo's appear in the game........you can't fly them....and we end up with an extremist group!

Next we'll have angler's on the B&W forum because your creature *isn't* catching fish right and it's cruel!.......

What a paranoid bunch we have here?

Tracer


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"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#558700 - 05/15/01 02:36 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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For f*ck's sake man, take a chill pill! I just wanted to point out that you were having a pop at something different to your precious Typhoon. Not only what you were saying was incorrect but also you hadn't got proper knowledge of the sim/game you were having a go at!!!

I haven't bought Typhoon because someone who knows me and also EECH better than me has pointed out the learning curve is very steep for someone with NO jet sim experience. I would very much like to get into a proper jet sim based on a European product, but I know I would find it very frustrating without someone to explain a helluva lot to me. For that reason, I think my first jet sim will be LOMAC, as I believe the tutorial etc and the learning curve in that game will be enough to get me going.

EECH does have a dynamic campaign (one that permits individuals to rearm and refuel in the middle of a mission) and helos do "fly". So knickers to you!

Until both of us have both games, let's not indulge ourselves in stoopid comments eh? Christ, we both like these things...

Or should the fact that I haven't got this game mean I can't come here to read/enjoy/participate on this board?

[This message has been edited by Daveyraveygravey (edited 05-15-2001).]


Foot down, head down...
#558701 - 05/15/01 02:45 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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bobinski Offline
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Tracer
lol
thats got to be one of the best posts i,ve read in a while!
Hey,lets be forum specific here-i dont have much time to read at this and other places and when i come here alls i want to read about is Typhoon.
Wanna post something interesting then tell me how you beat the dogfighting AI.
LOL
bobinski

------------------

#558702 - 05/15/01 02:55 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Bobinski - no, let's not be forum specific. Unless you all want to just sit around and read how great Typhoon is, and everything else (of course) is poop.


Foot down, head down...
#558703 - 05/15/01 03:13 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyraveygravey:
I haven't bought Typhoon because someone who knows me and also EECH better than me has pointed out the learning curve is very steep for someone with NO jet sim experience.


Daveyraveygravey,
I would have to completely disagree here. I don't know you, but if you fly EECH at all regularly, this sim is probably one of the best choices available for someone wanting to get into jet sims. You understand dynamic campaigns and are obviously up to speed on modeled complexities.

I used to use USNF for newbies ... went to USAF for folks that wanted to see what jet sioms are all about. Great games that gave a good taste of the environemnt without too much off overwhelming control commands. I will be recommending Typhoon now. Half an hour with a key chart and you are ready to rock.

Typhoon is a fast learning curve ... in 3 or 4 missions you will be quite comfortable and playing in an awesome campaign environment.

Give it a look, I don't think you will have a tough time picking it up at all.

------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html

[This message has been edited by CRASH - SimHQ (edited 05-15-2001).]


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
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"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#558704 - 05/15/01 03:23 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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Crash

When I saw it was you as the most recent post, I thought my number was up! I thought you were about to lock the thread as getting too inflammatory!

Perhaps I should bite the bullet, although I have to say the A10 has always held a certain fascination for me, and that is making me hang on for Lomac almost as much as the learning side...(oops, more non-Typhoon stuff... )


Foot down, head down...
#558705 - 05/15/01 03:36 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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bobinski Offline
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Daveyraveygravey
now i wasnt suggesting a love fest just posting that reflects the sim its strengths and,of course weaknesses.Dont you think the posts kinda went beyond that?
Now you havnt bought Typhoon and if theres anything you should be doing on this nice sunny day in London Town then its making your way to a store to buy it-Toms right,its a great intro to flying jet sims and damm good fun into the bargain.
Buy it ,play it and then you can join me and another sim newby mate in multiplayer sometime.
cheers
bobinski

#558706 - 05/15/01 03:39 PM Re: Typhoon: to F-15 and F-18 Jocks?  
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bobinski Offline
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whoops!
sorry Crash calling you "tom"
there.
Daveyraveygravey
i would have thought that Typhoon would set you up rather nicely for Lomac.
bobinski

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