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#557771 - 05/07/01 04:02 AM 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Ok , im getting thoroughly sick of all the 3dfx bashing on this forum !

qu - was typhoon actually tested on a 3dfx card , or tested at all ????

The typhoon problem is a lock up bug rather than an easy to dismiss / pontificate upon incompatibility coz the 3dfx card is dead blah blah !

It seems to be HUD / COCKPIT / VIRTUAL COCKPIT related - not external views etc !

I can run - the sim and watch it for hours playing itself without any lock ups , via the smart views - it looks gorgeous running on v3 3dfx at 1024 rez !

Ok i can't fly it myself as the cockpit causes lock ups - but it is a game play FATAL A CRASH BUG for christs sake - which should have been picked up and rectified during development and testing ! ????

I have every confidence - typhoon will be fixed for 3dfx very soon

For all those that seem to get off on bashing
3dfx cards ,how about some hard evidence that we 3dfx owners are suffering ??

Becoz we hard done by 3dfx ers are enjoying and playing our games & sims - no problemos thanks !

I own most games bar none - i have no problemos at all !

BTW last beta drivers released were feb 2001 - dx8 compatible - oh so dead is the card & support & game problems !

oh how we 3dfx card owning gamers do suffer -give me a break !

IF YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT - PLEASE BE QUIET !

do you own a 3dfx card ?
are you talking from recent experience ?

would i dare rubbish a nvidia card or gforce card or its game support - NO - becoz i have never owned one , & have NO experience of gaming on these cards !

All you Nvidia sales maen can go crawl back into your holes - and save up your 600 bucks for a gforce3 - happy saving

Thankyou !

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#557772 - 05/07/01 04:29 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  
Joined: Jan 2001
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OK..let's look at it this way. Let us say that at some point a game comes out that makes a driver call that your old card (and it's driver) does not support. The game crashes.

Is this the game's fault or do we blame the card? It don't matter one bit here whether some 3 year old game (or some game from 6 months ago..or some game from yesterday)works, who do you blame in this case?
Does the programmer limit himself by supporting a card that is not defunct? Or does he go make a version just for that old unsupported card?

I'm not saying that V3 cards suck, just that at some point they will become absolete. Hell all cards become obsolete; otherwise I'd still have my old PCI TNT card in my system.

From what Steve had said the game probably is making some graphic call that the drivers for the V3 card (or the card itself) do not like. If so then I don't blame the game and call it a bug unless it really IS a bug. And I don't blame you for owning a V3 either. And it doesn't make the card rubbish. Heck the Ford Taurus is a good family card, but it would certainly not be up to running the Indy 500.

Having said that I really do hope that Rage can work this out. If it's a game sepcific bug then it will be fixed. If it's something that only happens on V3 cards then maybe Rage will have to make a version just for it without these supported calls.

V3 owners should be allowed to enjoy this game just like the rest of us.


[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited 05-06-2001).]

#557773 - 05/07/01 04:37 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Fair and nicely put post

i feel it is a BUG - but without splicing atoms on the issue with you -

WTF happened to testing - i was a paid tester for an outsource company !

Check the games credits - Rage paid an outside company - what happened - someone somewhere knew of this bug/issue - ignored it , or sat on it ??????

IF it was not picked up , then id recommend RAGE get a testing fee refund frankly !!

I would hope , and i'd like to know the outcome of such an invesigation , as im sure would alot of 3dfx owners , that purchased the product on the first day of release !

#557774 - 05/07/01 06:31 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  
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So, let me get this straight "3dfxboy." You love your Voodoo 3; it's the see all be all of video cards, right? And ahhh, let see....you hate "Eurofighter," Rage & Steve Hunt. I think we all got it now. I was kinda fuzzy for a minute, but after reading your last 50 post, it all became very clear to me. I for one, am certainly glad we got all that bad stuff out in the open. So, let's see here.....I figure now, since it's Monday, you can go return EF-T and enjoy the games you have, and how many was that? Ahhh, right! You said you have in your collection "most games, bar none." Since you added the "bar none," it implies that you have ALL games. Interesting. Do you have "Deer Avenger?" That was a classic indeed. Well, good luck with that technological wonder of a card, the Voodoo 3. If only we had those cards 3 years ago, it would've revolutionized the gaming industry! Oh, wait! We did have those cards 3 years ago. Ahhh, the good ole' days!




[This message has been edited by Silverswift (edited 05-07-2001).]


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#557775 - 05/07/01 09:02 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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3dfxboy,

the truth is, the Voodoo family of cards is no longer fully supported. You said yourself that the DX8 version of the drivers is a beta, and this means it was hardly thoroughly tested.

I used to have a V3 (and a V1 before that), and indeed it was a nice card for its time. I also remember that when Jane's F/A-18 was released, it also didn't work properly with it, and it was a driver issue that was fortunately quickly resolved. Mind you, it was not resolved by the developers of the sim, but by a driver update. There was nothing wrong with Jane's F/A-18's DirectX rendering engine, the bug was solely in the Voodoo 3 drivers.

Unfortuantely, one cannot expect such a solution for a very similar problem with Typhoon. However, since the V3 card is still very popular, I can imagine that plently of developers will go beyond their call of duty and make the games work with the Voodoo by specific workarounds (see Flanker 2.03/2.5, for example), and I think a fix will be out soon for Typhoon as well.

However, since the gaming world is moving forward along with the new versions of DX, more and more incompatibilities will inevitably occur since no properly tested drivers for the Voodoo family will be available. Also, the V3 is becoming a bit feature limited (16 bit, small textures, no T&L), and this is what prompted me to buy a relatively cheap but much more satisfying, both in features and compatibility, GeForce 2 MX. While Typhoon may indeed fix the issues with the Voodoo, the other upcoming games may not, and I strongly advise you to look into a viable replacement (and not only NVidia provides that).

-Gecko

#557776 - 05/07/01 09:29 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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You can sort this out by simple elimination - if the bug was in the Typhoon code, it would fall over on ALL graphics cards. The fact that it only does it on 3DFX cards pins it down instantly to a DX driver compatability problem.

However, seeing as 3DFX have gone bump and are no more, the only approach open (which is the one I'm taking) is to track down the call which causes the driver to hang and then work the way back up the chain to Typhoon and remove the source of the problem at the game level.

From the testing that's been kindly done by those other players, I think it's narrowing down to a number of possibly fixable things - 2d line clipping and double z-buffer.

Rage are well aware that non-DX7 card won't work well, that's why it says on the box that you need a DX7 or better complient card.

Same as if you tried to run it on a 1meg card - it wouln't work (why it says 8meg card or better on the box)

This whole issues is very simple really. Don't think we need to go on any crusades here.

Anyway, thanks to all that are helping me get enough info together for a possible fix.

Cheers,

Steve

#557777 - 05/07/01 09:38 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  
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Right then, it wont work on a Voodoo 3, and it does work on a Voodoo 5. Then what about the hell about me in the middle with a Voodoo 4??!!
I use to own a Voodoo 2 plugged into a Stealth III S540, and there came a time when it just couldn't do what I was asking of it, and the Stealth card was a bit crap at doing stuff at 1024x768, so I went and looked for a new G-card, and I knew what I wanted, Voodoo 4, or Voodoo 5. Problem is that I bought it when it was still expensive....If I had held on another 3 months I would have had the Voodoo 5 for less than what i paid for the V4. Yet the V4 is doing everything that I ask of it, even though it does occaisionaly qit out on me in EECH every now and again.

I say bring back Glide in flight sims.....it KICKS ass, if only eFalcon supported Glide?!

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#557778 - 05/07/01 09:51 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Typhoon does work on VooDoo 5 - don't it?

Cheers,

Steve

#557779 - 05/07/01 10:02 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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3dfxboy,

You testing is much appreciated,

Any chance of you looking at the other thread (Info 3dxf) - Amp has posted a link to a 3dfx tweak site, there maybe something there that'll sort this out.

Get the feeling we're close to sorting this out now.

Cheers,

Steve

#557780 - 05/07/01 10:21 AM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Well Steve I apreciate you are working on it..yet I still feel a bit mislead...and this whole thing explains why we didn't get a flyable demo...yet a smatview demo...dont say it is pure coincidence(I wont believe ya.. )

I own two pc's and one of them is equiped with a voodoo3 2000 (pci)

I would really like it to be able to run it on both pc's in order to be able to play it with friends
and I got great confidence you guys will be able to sort this out...

Still I'm going to buy the game....
and enjoy it on my tnt2 based system

Wishing ou luck with the patching

Widowmaker aka Metalhead

#557781 - 05/07/01 04:39 PM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
3dfxboy,

You testing is much appreciated,

Any chance of you looking at the other thread (Info 3dxf) - Amp has posted a link to a 3dfx tweak site, there maybe something there that'll sort this out.

Get the feeling we're close to sorting this out now.

Cheers,

Steve


Thanks Steve , glad to help ,to help myself &to get this fixed for all concerned !

Just want to say that despite my vocal criticisms i am not anti Rage or anti TYPHOON , or anti you or the other giys on the dev team !

On the contrary i am very pleased at your dedication , and your devotion to fixing it all up for us all - bravo man !

You sound like a nice dedicated guy , so big thankyou to you and all at your end

Im patiently waiting for the fix !
I have been having a great time watching it play itself , its blowing me away , im smiling all the time , can't wait to join in and create the action / fly

So please don't think im anti Typhoon , frankly bring on addons , mission builders , mods , and fly all planes etc etc in future -maybe

===
Back to 3dfx drivers though , i am aware of the groups such as - x3dfx , omega drivers etc - in fact i am running the following drivers on my pc here at moment , see below !

Voodoo3 Windows(r) 9x/ME Driver Kit
-------------------------------------------
Voodoo3(tm) Driver kit: 1.07.00-BETA
This distribution contains Voodoo drivers and control panel for
Windows 9x/ME . The DirectDraw portion of the drivers supports Direct3D
when using DirectX 8.0

Without repeating myself - the freeze problem is related to virtual cockpit stuff , not external viewing / game world , which may i say is cool -
i have some fan constructive crtiticisms - but not wanting to muddy the waters here , will save that for another day in an alternative thread !

To conclude - no 3dfx drivers or dx versions i have tried - cure the freeze ups for me - hence i refer to it as a bug - but im not a coder guy - and i believe and respect your kind and frank explanations of the problems to us all !

Thankyou for sharing , caring and ultimately fixing - rock on the fix , and long live 3dfx gaming & carda, they are certainly not dead , they have alot of milage to give , and alot of fun gaming along the way still !

Lest we all forget , these games , sims , and forums , are all about ultimately giving people fun , enjoyment and immersive experiences

Cheers

#557782 - 05/07/01 08:17 PM Re: 3dfx support - A bug - NOT a daed card  

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Steve, when you're refering to DX7 compliance, do you mean that each of the driver components must be registered (by microsoft) as DirectDraw compliant according to the DXdiag tool?

I ask this because there has been WHQL Voodoo 3 driver support for DX7 for some time. I'm actually a V5 owner, but assuming the same situation applies, even with WHQL drivers, DXdiag still reports driver components as not being certified.

In fact I have been a V1, V2, V3, and now a V5 owner, and for as long as I can remember 1 or more component files in driver distributions for these cards have not been microsoft certified for whatever version of DirectX was current at the time.

Thanks.


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