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#556343 - 04/28/01 11:06 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Seawolf, Fishbed-

Bravo. What you SAID.

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#556344 - 04/28/01 11:47 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Ummm really? It's named Typhoon, The primary goal of the GAME is being a Typhoon pilot, and you do nothing else in the game but fly the plane. Am I to understand that you control the whole war from your cockpit?
I think you need to look up the definition of Flight Simulator.
I will say this for the 3RD TIME!!
I am not judging Typhoon, I haven't seen it yet. period! If it's to "Dumbed down" for me then I'll return it, simple as that.

oh, and my feeling on why they (Rage) doesn't want to use the word simulator is because the game would be held to higher standards, this way they can play it safe and say "We never said it was a sim" alla Gunship, remember that one.
just my opinion, so before you start screaming I'm wrong, how can an opinion be wrong? Facts and Opinions are 2 different things.


Quote:
Originally posted by wolfkiller:
To Fishbed and Seawolf primarily.
The point seems to have been lost that Typhoon is NOT a flight sim. It's a war/battle game with flight sim elements.
It's about managing a war campaign not an aircraft.
It's also about appealing to a larger game buying public than the TOO FEW gathered here.

Quote: I know the locale of Iceland was selected so these things (JTIDS, J-Stars, AWACS, and in-flight refuelling)could be left out in some justifiable way. But we all know Typhoon would be qualitatively better if they were included.
/Quote

Leaving those things out improves the game immeasurably. Maybe not knowing where every plane and SAM is from the outset makes you a better Typhoon pilot.

I'll tell you in a week's time.

regards

W

#556345 - 04/29/01 12:34 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
As it stands right now, none of you know the full scope of this game. And I won't say anymore now other than to say that I think you are going to be very happy campers.
Andy



Andy,

Do you mean that there are plans in the pipeline for an add-on/Typhoon-2 with these realistic features we want to see?

Only hoping... err joking



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#556346 - 04/29/01 12:45 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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{quote]Can anyone think of a sim in which the non-flyable aircraft flight control surfaces move?[/quote]

IL-2

#556347 - 04/29/01 01:36 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Hengist

To quote 'Shultzie'..."I know nussing!!"

Len

Regards the flight control surfaces moving on planes other than the players in Il-2 (or any other sim, for that matter)...why is this important? Do you think pilots in the real world see this? Even in close formation flying, do wingmen see the leader's control surfaces moving? This issue has got to be way up the pissant ladder.

Seawolf

In this hobby, the term 'simulator' is bandied about freely...mostly by folks that have never seen an actual aircraft simulator, let alone a fighter simulator. That's OK...as far as it goes.

For my money, Typhoon is a game, not a sim. And, before everyone goes screaming out into the night, let me say that I think this is good. Why? Because so many more folks can find something in the game to like. Button-pushing is fun for some, but not for others...and right now it seems those 'others' are in the majority. Rage is selling a commercial product that promises to deliver fun to those folks. If we lose some folks in the process, I regret that. If you return Typhoon, that will be a choice for you alone.

For you folks that are not turned off by simplification, I'll say this one more time. This game is fun. Winning is hard. Dogfights are spectacular, but you better have your wits about you if you hope to survive. The threat is massive in numbers and lethality. You will have your hands full keeping ahead of this game.

And best of all...well, I won't go into that...Rage would probably hit me over the head with the NDA I signed!!

Andy

#556348 - 04/29/01 02:00 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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In a magazine interview here in the UK, [PC Format, May edition] Steve Hunt mentions a 'carrier action' expansion to Typhoon. All dependent on sales, naturally.

Don't all rush at once....

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[This message has been edited by Platinum Rogue (edited 04-28-2001).]


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#556349 - 04/29/01 02:48 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Uroborus,
I take offense to your notion that my argument is pointless. I realize that Typhoon is done (and has been for many months now). I am one of the ones who have pre-ordered it (on http://www.softwarefirst.com - a great price too - 22.99 pounds) and I am looking forward to it arriving on my doorstep in the next week or two! However, I believe that, with a little more ambition, it could have achieved far greater sales than I fear it will get. I could be wrong (and I hope that I am). My ideas, however, can not apply to Typhoon, as it has gone gold already, but I hope Rage and other publishers would take them into account in the future.


I did NOT say your points were not valid at all, but just in the case of Typhoon. And only because the game is done. To argue over what Typhoon might have been seems pointless to me. But yes..I agree that your points are ones that flight sim makers should consider.

But you know; Typhoon will do just well if it's a good game...period. Hardcore or not.

#556350 - 04/29/01 03:15 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Andy

Bravo. To what YOU said. You having actually PLAYED the game that is.

#556351 - 04/29/01 06:13 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Andy,

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't arguing that it was particularly important that IL2 models moving control surfaces for all aircraft. I don't believe it's necessary. Hell, if we get picky, the recent appearance in flight sims of clouds isn't really necessary. But who would want to go back?

Ok.. heh.. I am pushing the point. Clouds add more than moving fllight surfaces on enemies.

Then again.. let's take your other point ..

Quote:
For my money, Typhoon is a game, not a sim. And, before everyone goes screaming out into the night, let me say that I think this is good. Why? Because so many more folks can find something in the game to like.


So many folks will find more to love in IL-2 because of attention to detail like moving control surfaces on enemy aircraft. Andy, when you save an encounter to track file in IL2 and go back and watch it later, you will think you are watching color footage from a ww2 encounter. And even if you watch it from the perspective of the bandit, realism is preserved because even the damn control surfaces move!

In the end, some people are gonna buy this one just to watch it.. it's that good.

#556352 - 04/29/01 01:19 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Len

I think I see where you are going with this.

Here's my take on the issue of realism. Immersion is very important...probably number one in any game. What gets folks there is their perceived notion of realism.

I use the term 'notion' since most here have no experience in real world fighters and so their idea of 'realism' becomes very subjective.

Not to worry! It's this perception of 'reality' that sells games. The process of selling can be helped or hindered by statements in reviews that refer to this perception.

My feeling is that what we see in these games is just that...a perception. Any scenes that approach 'real' reality are pretty rare.

That being the case, and considering the weight that review comments carry, my request would be that reviewers use phrases such as "It feels pretty 'realistic/unrealistic' to me when I do...", rather than make blanket assertions such as "The ___is unrealistic".

Get the drift?

Otherwise folks like me might be quick to point out that the reviewer wouldn't know reality if it hit him in the butt.



Andy

#556353 - 04/29/01 04:06 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Well sure!

But even reviewers have to try to maintain a sense of immersion. And none of us here have flown the real Eurofighter

But things like a lack of closure indicator I find terribly irksome; and I won't believe it isn't in the real aircraft until the test pilots tell me so.

#556354 - 04/29/01 06:46 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Went looking for the Typhoon game this afternoon it wasn't in stores around here so I downloaded the rolling demo instead.

Liked the graphics. They might not be to detailed when you look closely at the targets (eerm other aircraft) but at a typical engagement distance they look good. My PIII 500 had no problems with providing a smooth framerate. No hicups at all nice smoke trails and explosions.

Liked the aircraft types that are in the demo. Finally I see Tornado's, Viggens, Grippens instead of the standard US types always present in every sim.

Judging from the comments here I think Rage tried to keep this game focused. I looks like they concentrated on a few key aspects that would make this game fun. Keeping out the advanced hardcore stuff gives you more time to build a stable game and its easier to playbalance the final product.

The 2nd thing they appear to do is go for the largest target audience. Moddest hardware requirments and keeping things simple might get them the avarage gamer crowd. They wil probably lose the ultra hardcore sim junkie but that's not were the money is in this business.

Nostradamus predicts i will buy this game as soon as it is out. And if those dogfights are half as fun as they look I will like it a lot!

#556355 - 04/29/01 06:53 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Extra, Extra, read all about it.

Sim fan in "wanting to have fun" shocker!

#556356 - 04/30/01 06:15 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leonard Hjalmarson:
Well sure!

But even reviewers have to try to maintain a sense of immersion. And none of us here have flown the real Eurofighter


Hey, speak for yourself!! I have friends in British places!!
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#556357 - 05/01/01 03:18 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Button-pushing is fun for some, but not for others...and right now it seems those 'others' are in the majority. Rage is selling a commercial product that promises to deliver fun to those folks. If we lose some folks in the process, I regret that. If you return Typhoon, that will be a choice for you alone.


I just can't understand this argument being put forward??? I suspect that it really boils down to shorter, cash saving develoment times, i.e. Shall we? Nah sod it, it'll take to long and cost to much. Lets just stick it on the shelves as it is now, at least we'll get some kind of return.

Even the most Hardcore sims around allow you to turn off the amount of button pushing needed to fly the thing. Power to the people is what I say, i.e. If you don't wanna push buttons, then set it to FUN level. If you want the buttons, then set it to REALISTIC level... Seems a simple enuf equation for me.

At least Hardcore sims give you the option, instead of assuming that this is what people want.



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#556358 - 05/01/01 08:50 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Heres a simple counter argument, no other game genre does what you propose. When you play International Superstar soccer or FIFA (or John Madden for you Yanks) do you have a "simple" mode where you only have pass and shoot, no you play the game the way the designers envisioned (but with variable difficultly levels). Options are nice but if the designers are forced to spend huge amounts of time concetrating on tweaking the game to everyiones taste then they will invariably have less time to polish the actual content of the game. Want an example, Falcon 4, tons of options only the game is essentialy broken and only now FIVE years after development started and TWO YEARS after it came out is it approaching some kind of playable state for those who dont like their computers to crash every 2 missions and who cant put up with massive realism issues (like AA-1 Alkalis that behave like AA-11 Archers, as in pre RP4.1).

#556359 - 05/01/01 08:50 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Double post, sorry.

[This message has been edited by joelhume (edited 05-01-2001).]

#556360 - 05/01/01 11:34 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Here's a simple counter counter argument. I don't play games (unless they have a picture of a plane on the box), I play Simulations.

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#556361 - 05/02/01 12:09 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Exactly, how many people play games LOTS, how many play only simulations NOT MANY (or not enough to justify the development costs).

#556362 - 05/03/01 11:03 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Hmmm, makes you wonder why the majority of sims have these options that Typhoon hasn't.

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