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#556303 - 04/07/01 01:04 PM Demo comments - Realism  

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I've just downloaded and run the demo of Typhoon, and initially, I was impressed.

However, running it a few more times, and a few things have come to my attention:

1. The Canards do *NOT* move on the EFA (when the trailing EFA pulls back into the vertical and it goes to side view, you can see the Canards are still just straight along the aircraft plane).

2. On the close-in shots of the MiG29 and the Tornado, the ailerons and elevators do not work. (In fact, I could not actually distinguish them from the wing).

3. The other aircraft do not seem to be that well modelled (MiG29 in particular - it only has about 12 polygons for it's cockpit canopy (although it is transparent admittedly))

4. The explosions seem to be over too quickly, and theres barely any smoke at all. Okay you may want to save frame rates, but this imo is pushing it.

5. Why did the Gripen pilot have a British accent?

6. The sounds seem to be taken straight from TAW. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I've compared the two, and the F-22 flyby sound in TAW is the same as the EFA flyby sound in the demo.

7. The clouds are no different from TAW. Just flat thin layers you fly through. I hope there are patches of mist, etc in the real game.

Okay, most of these are being picky, but as far as I'm concerned, they will detract from Gaming experience and realism.

On the positive side, I'm glad to see that flares now actually look like flares (with trails, etc) rather than just round balls.

Regards,
Manteau

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#556304 - 04/07/01 11:18 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Yeah..you're being picky. None of those things will matter to you once you're into the game. If they do...remind yourself that it is a game.

But really though, from some of the comments that Andy has made, I do believe that the EFA's control surfaces do work in the game..perhaps they just don't function in the Smart Views. But Andy can test this out for us.

As fhr the other plane's control surfaces not moving; how many sims actually model the control surfaces of ALL the plane's in the game? Does F4 do this? Either way..as cool as this might have been, I don't see this as a big deal. If in the heat of battle you're worried about moving control surfaces, you're not playing the game...you're watching it

As for the clouds, if they are just like those in TAW then there most likely will be patches of mist. Personally I like the clouds; I think they fit the enviroment of the game. I'm not saying there aren't better clouds out there; but more often than not they slwo things down forcing you to turn then off. Typhoon won't have that problem.

Yes, the Typhoon seems to be the most detailed model in the game. As it should be.The canopy problem you mentioned (and I saw this too), I think has more to do with shading than the lack of polygons. It looks like in that canopy they used flat shading as opposed to gourad shading

#556305 - 04/08/01 12:16 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Manteau

The flight control surfaces all function in the game...including the rudder even tho the pilot has no rudder input. As for whether or not the target flight control surfaces actually move...probably not...but name me one sim in which they do.

As for the layers of clouds...well, that's how some clouds are! I find the effect in Typhoon pretty realistic for a stratus type of cloud layers. Does the game simulate cumulous buildups very well? No...perhaps that type of cloud formation is untypical of Iceland. I don't know.

This demo is just that...a demo of what you can expect to see. It is not the game.

Andy

#556306 - 04/08/01 09:46 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Uroboros:
Yeah..you're being picky. None of those things will matter to you once you're into the game. If they do...remind yourself that it is a game.


Maybe, maybe not. In the original, in the main cockpit view, the canards were always moving around. It would be a shame if a similar thing didn't happen in this version.

Quote:
But really though, from some of the comments that Andy has made, I do believe that the EFA's control surfaces do work in the game..perhaps they just don't function in the Smart Views. But Andy can test this out for us.


Okay, fair point - he's said above they do, and he's got the full game, so I believe him.

Quote:
As fhr the other plane's control surfaces not moving; how many sims actually model the control surfaces of ALL the plane's in the game? Does F4 do this? Either way..as cool as this might have been, I don't see this as a big deal. If in the heat of battle you're worried about moving control surfaces, you're not playing the game...you're watching it


LOL - that's one problem with the demo - you can only watch it.

Cheers,
Manteau

#556307 - 04/08/01 10:14 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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does F4 does this....ggggeeeeeezzzz...ofcoarse it does.

not on all plames though yet on the f16 it does move all the surfaces

Metalhead

#556308 - 04/08/01 01:09 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Just to clarify the question of flight control surfaces...in Typhoon, the canard, elevons, and ailerons respond to your stick input. The rudder does not...but it does respond to AI input.

None of the other aircraft have movable control surfaces.

Can anyone think of a sim in which the non-flyable aircraft flight control surfaces move?

Andy

#556309 - 04/08/01 01:17 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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I'm not complaining on the issue, but ... Flanker 2.0.

-Gecko

#556310 - 04/08/01 07:57 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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IL-2. I just watched a maniac in a Bf-109F2 plow into a factory courtyard a couple days ago while frantically trying to pull out of a power dive. I literally harassed the poor Jerry to death-I couldn't shoot jack.

By the way, Andy-how do you control the Typhoon in slow-speed maneuvers, like in landing, if the AI has the Y axis all to itself?

Miao, Cat

[This message has been edited by Cat (edited 04-08-2001).]


Miao, Cat
#556311 - 04/09/01 01:25 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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With typical aileron and pitch inputs...the AI will put in rudder as necessary to coordinate the roll.

Does this mean that maneuvers such as a Hammerhead are not possible? Yes, in the sense that the player will not be able to manually add extra rudder over and above what the AI thinks is needed for coordinated flight. Not my choice of how things should be...but that's life!

The aircraft flys sluggishly in the landing configuration. Care must be taken to not get into high sink conditions...very much like a RL jet. Line up is done with aileron only.

The hardest part of flying the landing pattern is in airspeed control. The Eurofighter is overpowered, and it is easy to overcontrol the throttle on final. With a little practice, things work out OK.

Andy

#556312 - 04/09/01 03:09 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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I presume the no rudder "issue" has something to do with it not being needed that much because you don't have to taxi the aircraft?

I'm confused - Are you saying you can't user rudder controls at all and the rudder isn't even moddeled in the fligh model, or does the autopilot do it for you (if this is the case, how does it know what you want to do?).

I don't know about other people, but I use the rudder quite a bit (I probably overuse it in fact), especially when landing, and when flying NOE and banking.

Regards,
Manteau

#556313 - 04/09/01 03:39 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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I don't understand how we are supposed to keep the aircraft straight when making our takeoff runs or lining up on final approach and landing. Presumably, if we used the stick to move right or left down the runway, we would roll the wingtips into the pavement.

#556314 - 04/09/01 03:47 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
I don't understand how we are supposed to keep the aircraft straight when making our takeoff runs or lining up on final approach and landing. Presumably, if we used the stick to move right or left down the runway, we would roll the wingtips into the pavement.


That's precisely what I'm worried about. I think they may have "simplified" the game a bit too much here.

On take off, I have yet to see a game (this includes TAW, F4, Mig Alley) that has you lined up exactly on the centre line. In TAW, it doesn't matter, as it's not that bad, but in F4 I always have to re-align myself.

As for landing, if we have to bank the aircraft to line up accurately, I think I'm going to have to cross the line and say this is sounding more and more like an "arcade" simulation.

Cheers,
Manteau

[This message has been edited by Manteau (edited 04-09-2001).]

#556315 - 04/09/01 03:53 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Manteau

The game AI handles the rudder. The player has no control over the rudder. For ground steering, the player uses the flight stick (right/left movement).

The AI only uses rudder in slow speed/high AOA situations. The AI looks at the existing aerodynamic position...if it needs to roll, it will add rudder to the aileron input only when needed.

Personally, I'd rather the rudder was manual...but it isn't, and that's that!

Fishbed

Steering is easy using the stick when taking off. Line up straight and you should be OK.

For landing, fly normally. Crosswinds are not significant in the game, and so rudder input in the landing approach is not a factor.

Andy

#556316 - 04/09/01 05:23 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Hmmmm... this must be a relic of Typhoon's Playstation2 origins. It would definitly be nice if they would fix this before the release, as Typhoon is no longer slated to be released on that platform.

#556317 - 04/09/01 07:49 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishbed77:
Hmmmm... this must be a relic of Typhoon's Playstation2 origins. It would definitly be nice if they would fix this before the release, as Typhoon is no longer slated to be released on that platform.


If it doesn't effect gameplay then I guess it's OK. But you are right, it probably is a relic of the fact that they were thinking of porting this game to the Playstation. (limited number of keys available) Not the other way around. I don't think this game was intended first for the Playstation.

Anyhow it would be nice to have the option to control the rudder.

#556318 - 04/09/01 07:51 PM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Since it was originally a DID product, I am sure it was first intended for the PC. The Playsation2 notion probably came about when Rage (or Ubisoft or whoever sat on the sim for so long) picked it up.

#556319 - 04/10/01 12:45 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Just like to point out my opinion on what I've seen in the demo:

The good:
New aircraft (not American!)
Good atmosphere and mood
Like the music
Like the sound
Like the detail on the Eurofighter
Like the weapons available*
Like the sky and clouds

The bad:
The terrain could be better done
Don't like the rivers at all
The mountains could be better
The hangers and HAS look like chocolate sponge cakes, boring!

The ugly:
The flames go out way too soon
Things blow up under the ground!

Well, just hope there's going to be a playable demo, otherwise I can't really judge the game at all.

#556320 - 04/10/01 06:52 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Andy.....if you wanna know what combatsim that has all it's AI a/c shows moving control surfaces well that is Flanker 2.X from SSI/Eagle Dynamics.

#556321 - 04/10/01 08:01 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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I think it's been said before, but if you really worry about control-movement on AI planes whilst in the sim then you've got too much time on your hands. Personally, I'm hoping I'll be too busy dogfighting to have time to look at the enemies control surfaces.

Out of interest, does anyone believe that they would have time to study the movements of another planes control surface in real life anyway? I think that it's interesting that people don't like this feature when it's only really visible using a far-from-realistic camera system. (Smart View.)

I like smartview myself, but I'm not sure it has a real-life counterpart.

As an afterthought, how much would it increase the CPU requirements of this game if it were to model every control? I have a 1.1GHz athlon, but I know plenty of people with measly K6-2's, and I'm sure some of them wouldn't mind a chance to play what is still a nice looking game.

SanC

#556322 - 04/10/01 08:03 AM Re: Demo comments - Realism  

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Umm, no offense to the K6-2.

SanC

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