Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#555322 - 01/08/01 04:09 PM Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi guys,

I've been asked to drop by and help Andy and Badboy answer your more in-depth Typhoon questions....

Should be fun!

Steve

Rage Warrington

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#555323 - 01/08/01 04:36 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi there!

Q1 - Release date.
Q2 - How will the cockpit/instruments work with the MFDs gone?
Q3 - What is that Gripen doing on iceland? (found in a screen shot).
Q4 - (passing id at blazing speed...) How advanced is the pilot managment bit? Ie what do I have to do.
Q5 - Do the pilots have personal traits and how much will you be able to controll thier actions?
Q6 - Will pilots gain skill?

Will be back with more

------------------
J "jema" Malm
Contributing Editor SimHQ.com
jema@SimHQ.com

[This message has been edited by jema (edited January 08, 2001).]

#555324 - 01/08/01 05:02 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Hi Steve

Welcome to SimHQ! Thanks very much for helping out here.

Hope to be talking to you soon!

Andy
alfakilo@doitnow.com

#555325 - 01/08/01 05:30 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve: "I've been asked to drop by and help Andy and Badboy answer your more in-depth Typhoon questions....

Should be fun!"

jema: "...Will be back with more".

There is a lot of interest in this sim...be prepared for a deluge Steve.

#555326 - 01/08/01 07:56 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I`ve got a few questions for Steve

1. Are there any naval strike missions in Typhoon i.e attacking / defending carrier battle groups.

2. What enemy and friendly aircraft are featured in the game, the ones i`ve seen in shots are.

Typhoon ,Rafaele, Harrier, Tornado, SR71 for Allies.

MIG 29, MIG 1-42, SU27M, S37 Berkut, Six Engined Antonov Cargo plane, Three engined stealth bomber, KA50 for Russians.

Are there any other notable additions to the list (like any american jets or older Russian jets like MIG 23/27 or SU24).

3.How realistic is the missile performance modelling. Personally this is more important than the stuff thats been left out like A2A refueling, ATC, clickable cockpit and stuff. If the planes and missiles behave something like their real life counterparts (or what we have been told they behave like) It`ll go much further towards the feeling of "Being there" than a clickable cockpit anyday.

5.Is damage to the campaign world persistent, if you blast an enem SAM site will it still be blasted next time you fly that way. Persistent damage like this really makes you feel like your actions have an affect on the game world.

4. Does it support Hardware T&L for us GeForce owners out there.

#555327 - 01/09/01 01:47 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 420
Hatch Offline
Member
Hatch  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 420
Orlando, FL USA
Steve,
Looks like it's going to be a fun one. Like everyone else, I want to know when.

#555328 - 01/10/01 12:25 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great to see you here also Steven Hunt - I have been reading your posts on the EF2000 mailing list also.

Questions:

1 - Is there going to be a demo for Typhoon
2 - If there is going to be a demo for Typhoon then when? - before the release or after?
3 - How open are you going to make Typhoon? - im thinking of the posibility of community made addons.
4 - Will you make a seperate website for Typhoon when its launched other than the one you have on http://www.rage.com?
5 - I know there will be a strategy manual for Typhoon - will that come with Typhoon or will it be bought aside like the one for TAW.
6 - Im not sure if this is answered before but what sound systems does Typhoon support? - EAX?
7 - Has there been added or fixed anything to Typhoon after Infogrames ran away?

Thanks for answering in advance - Im looking forward to getting this simulation.

amp

#555329 - 01/10/01 06:51 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Unless there have been major changes since our conversations last spring, the campaign is an advanced version of WARGEN and should be beyond even that seen in Total Air War.

Here is a chart I made for the interview at the time..


#555330 - 01/10/01 06:56 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Those dying for the detail on the real McCoy should visit http://www.eurofighter.com



#555331 - 01/10/01 08:36 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 108
Lastchance Offline
Member
Lastchance  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 108
Reseda,Calif,USA
This looks like fun!!!

------------------
Don't eat lunch pack a
chute!!


Don't eat lunch pack a
chute!!
#555332 - 01/10/01 09:32 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im back

Since there is constant benchmarking in the world of computing could you put in a "time demo" in Thypoon? Would be nice to have one for sims.

#555333 - 01/10/01 10:39 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, here we go....

Jema,

Q1 - Release date: Hopefully end of Q1
Q2 - MFDs: Some of the cockpit instruments work, e.g. status lights, horizon ball. But the 3D MFDs are static - this is due to the expense of dynamic texture etc... If you look down you can see the pilots hands moving the stick and throttle though.
Q3 - Gripen on Iceland: It's there because we like it - we've taken some liberties with the plot!
Q4 - Pilot management: Mainly you have to keep them alive. You will be able to edit the missions and fly whichever pilot you want (or non if you want). You can transfer the pilots to different bases which has various different effects on the length, type and risk levels of the missions assigned to them.
Q5 - Pilot traits: Yes, each pilot has different skill levels, each pilot has a bias as to the sort of missions that will be assign to them. They also have different survival skill etc - these come in to play when they are waiting for rescue, or being interrogated etc...
Q6 - pilots gain skill: No, the pilots stats are not effect by time.

Joelhume,

1 - There will be naval missions, both offensive and defensive - there are will be no carriers in release version (but maybe something will come after - ho ho)
2 - There's loads of different types of planes in the game, most of the standard ones on your list. But there are quite a few extra aircraft not normally seen in flight sims that come in later on. Most are real aircraft with a few experimental ones - but I won't give the game away!
3 - Missile modeling is very similar to TAW and ADF. We've changed the types and updated the data for them.
4 - T&L is supported
5 - Damage to structures is slowly repaired over time, for example a hanger may take 5 hours to go from dead to operational. We did intended to have damage permanent, but the problem is that the campaign uses the damage to the buildings at each site to determine its level of operation, if things aren't repaired slowly the game could grind to a halt. The main thing is though that this takes place over a number of hours, you won't find a hanger intact when you only bombed it 10 minutes ago. Mobile SAMs move in the slowly replenish dead ones on both sides, but again in hours rather than minutes - same here also, of you don't replenish them (which is realistic anyway), all the SAMs are gone within the first few hours and things get boring.

Amp,

Q1 - I think we'll do a demo for Typhoon - not 100% on this though, and I'm not sure if it'll be a rolling one or not...
Q2 - If we do a demo it'll be around Feb.
Q3 - We are thinking of opening up the campaign so uses can define their our scenarios etc... not sure when this will happen yet.
Q4 - Yep, a Typhoon web site is under development.
Q5 - Yes, but no!
Q6 - Will have to ask the sound guy this one.
Q7 - Not really, except bug fixing


Hope this all helps,

Steve

#555334 - 01/10/01 11:06 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
GrahamD Offline
Member
GrahamD  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Loughton, Essex, UK
Steve, if you're still around, can you tell us what the terrain resolution is (i.e., metres per pixel) and how this compares with TAW. Do you use "noise" textures to give a greater sense of detail and speed at low altitudes? (probably not necessary if the resolution is high enough in the first place).

#555335 - 01/10/01 12:10 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not sure I like the plot...

#555336 - 01/10/01 04:23 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks steve sounds really good. i`m still really looking forward to this one, hope to see more info soon.

#555337 - 01/10/01 04:31 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 181
Datajack Offline
Member
Datajack  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 181
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Steve,

Q1. What are the chances of seeing coop campaign multiplay in the future? This feature is a MUST.

Q2. How many planes are flyable in the game?

Thanks,
Datajack

#555338 - 01/10/01 07:41 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Steve, it's great to have you here!

2 more questions:

1) In TAW I loved the possibility to fly AWACS missions, and using the little trick of setting up missions, take off and then exit the game I was able to launch user created multiple missions ( up to 7) and then once in the AWACS fly them (The whole process was invented by PARADOX and was called "The Paradox tactic"). Is it going to be possible then to set up and launch different flights from different airbases in Typhoon?


2) Are you planning to add an AWACS multiplayer option? Where a player can choose to fly the AWACS in the campaign?

I started my simulation experience with TFX (well actually with F117A Stealth Fighter, Microprose 1991) So I am really looking forward for TYPHOON.

Dot_25th

#555339 - 01/10/01 09:08 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Steve,

Q1: Is any form of ground war between the two forces simulated ?

Q2: How much of the "world" is present or is it just Iceland ?

Q3: Does the game work with DirectX 7.0a ?

Thanks,
Sean.

#555340 - 01/10/01 10:13 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
I think I can answer some of those questions.

-Dot-

I believe you can only modify the mission that your 6 pilots are flying; if and when they are flying at the time. With no AWACS in the game the Paradox technique is not possible. Thankfully Steve has mentioned on the EF-2000 list that the campaign engine is not as daft as the one in TAW was. It will do a much better job of setting missions this time around.

Sean Tudor

Yes there is a ground war this time around. The front line will change throughout the campaign and tanks will capture bases by destroying any defending ground units. hardware at the base will be destroyed by the enemy and therefore effect the resources
of the campaign. This according to Steve's comments on the EF-2000 list.

I don't know if bases can be recaptured though; but it seems possible if the front line changes. Steve will have to give us more info on that one.

#555341 - 01/11/01 12:16 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, here's another begging letter for coop campaign...

Even if it's implemented the same way as the original EF2000 game where the client machines are just slaved to the server and all campaign functions are handled by the server with the clients in a "Waiting for Server" screen when not flying. Hell, even if you only allow one client - your wingman. Anything!

I really am not bothered by the lack of headcore elements, even the MFD's - though I would have prefered them to be active. But the ability to play in a team (even a team of 2) in campaign mode is one of the things that really sets (some) sims apart from and above a lot of other games of all types.

Please remember that it was the coop campaign that set EF2000 apart from the rest back in 96(?), it would be a shame to loost that descriminating factor today...

I also remember that the coop campaign functionality was added in the version 2 patches (2.01, 2.02 and 2.04 if I remember correctly), and wasn't in the original retail release in the UK, so I'm hoping!

Beg, beg, beg....

Mike.

#555342 - 01/11/01 09:35 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just a quick question, but hopefully a long answer; how is the physics of flight handled in the sim?

-Gecko

#555343 - 01/11/01 10:08 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all,

GrahamD,

The terrain res is pretty high, we don't add extra detail as you get lower (we do mip map to the horizon though, but that's different). We do have very high res textures around the target areas as well, so when you land at an airbase the runway etc has a lot of detail.

Datajack,

1 - Coop campaign won't be in the game. It's a shame, I'd love to put it in but it just takes too long - Not many people realise that the EF coop campaign took a year to develop - it's just not cost effective to do that at the moment.

2 - How many flyable planes: Only one, the Typhoon - but then again, maybe something slipped though! - hummm not sure!

-Dot-

1 - Uroboros is correct. Typhoon has a completely different focus than ADF and TAW.

2 - There isn't an AWACS in Typhoon. Again the focus is different - we've shifted from the big strategic picture down to the experience of being a pilot. We can't cover all bases so somethings have been dropped in favor of new ideas and features.

Sean Tudor,

1 - Yep, there is a full real-time dynamic ground war in Typhoon. It has proper resource management, strategic, and tactical logic, with territory capture (and re-capture) functionality. (In other words, the Russiks are coming and they really want your airbases!)

2 - The world is just Iceland, with a large amount of water around it. But the plot of Typhoon is set in a European war, which is reference by video news reports.

3 - Yep, Typhoon is DirectX 7

SaneMax

Nope, sorry. No coop campaign. Again, it took 1 year to get that feature working in EF, and as much as I'd love to do it - we'd run out of cash and be all out of a job if we did... shame really, but that's business.

Cheers,

Steve

#555344 - 01/11/01 10:16 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Shame about the co op. I for one have never flown coop on line- dial up modems and distance (I live in Japan) put pay to that idea. So, personally, I feel that it would be a VERY welcome addition... however... that's all it would be... an addition. Provided the sim is good in and of itself, I'm looking forward to it!

Unfortunately I fear that there's not many people here who feel the same way... this has all the hallmarks of a flamefest about to happen (sigh)

#555345 - 01/11/01 10:45 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Steve,

I have one burning question:

Will Typhoon running smooth on a pII450, 196mb, 16mbTNT video card. Whit all details on maximum?

#555346 - 01/11/01 10:59 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
GrahamD Offline
Member
GrahamD  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Loughton, Essex, UK
I'm certainly looking forward to this sim. I don't think it will have everything I ever wanted from a sim, because budget and technology won't allow it and not everyone wants what I want. If the emphasis is on simulating the experience of flight and combat, that's fine with me. I only hope that Rage Warrington can prove with this one that jet sims still sell.

#555347 - 01/11/01 11:17 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Gecko,

Short question, short answer.... and that is that the flight model has been done properly. The guy who wrote it is a qualifier aeronautical engineer and a pilot. He's now left and gone to MathEngine, but I can assure you he really knew his stuff.

Blueleader,

Typhoon will run sweet as a nut on a PII450, in fact that's not far off the spec of my own development machine...

Cheers,

Steve

#555348 - 01/11/01 12:24 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve,

thanks for the reply! You've just secured yourself a customer .

I do believe that Typhoon is a sim in the proper direction, because I've become seriously bored with the avionics focused type sims. Falcon 4.0 was great as it was lots of fun to learn it, but Jane's F/A-18 was a bit of a deja vu, no matter how great a sim it is (and it really is!), so I've played it less than I thought I would.

I've enjoyed USAF much more, as, while perhaps not the most accurate sim, it felt like flying and was still demanding in that respect. It focused on the visceral feel of flying, not the intellectual button pushing, and as such had great immersion.

From all I've read so far I believe that this visceral feel is what Typhoon is striving to perfect, and a flight model with natural responses, which only the application of real world physics can deliver, even if it's not completely up to specs is in my opinion an important part of doing so. I have a suspicion Typhoon will be just what the doctor ordered!

-Gecko

#555349 - 01/11/01 12:34 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve,

I'm really sorry to hear about the situation regarding coop campaign play, though I can't fault the reasoning...

One other question:

Would Rage/DiD consider releasing the source code of EF2000 v2 under an OpenSource licence in a similar manner to iD's release of the souce to Quake? Is there anybody I could contact at Rage to make it a formal request?

Mike.

#555350 - 01/12/01 05:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Steve, just as a suggestion, maybe you could include carriers, realtime cockpit MFDs, and (maybe) a coop campaign in a patch or addon.

How about an extention to the war, and add in more territory? I really like what the game has to offer, and I do appreciate the amount of time it takes to develop a coop campaign, but please do try, because I do believe it will be popular if it materiallises.

#555351 - 01/12/01 01:34 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
GrahamD Offline
Member
GrahamD  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Loughton, Essex, UK
Steve, are there seasonal changes in the terrain or is it only a short campaign played at a fixed season? Will there be any really foul weather?

#555352 - 01/12/01 11:05 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 181
Datajack Offline
Member
Datajack  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 181
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Steve,

Real bummer about the coop campaign. If the game sells and you get enough support, is it a possibility we will see coop campaigns in the future?

Also, how much flexibility will we have as far as changing aircraft skins and other art in the game (like vehicle skins, sky palette, afterburner art, etc...)?

Thanks,
Datajack

#555353 - 01/13/01 12:55 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Cat Offline
Egyptian Mau
Cat  Offline
Egyptian Mau
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Somewhere....over the Rainbow
Considering the question aboout the EF2k source, I'd wonder the same about the TAW code. That game only needs three technical things-parachutes on Mk82R bombs, carriage of LGBs in the bay, and retargetable JDAMs-to be near-perfect as far as I'm concerned.

1024 resolution and a black and white LANTIRN display-or even that green they use in the recon views-would pretty much ice it for me. And if I could somehow edit the radio chatter to give the lead pilot a female voice as well, I'd never fly anything else. You know, I'd pay 50 bucks for a patch that addressed these issues. Heck, I'd pay $100 for that patch. I might even pay $150. If it was REALLY possible, darn, I'd pay $200. Yep. I'd pay $200 for all those features.

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#555354 - 01/13/01 04:11 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Flabbergasted. On a certain other unnamed board this would have brough howls of protest and flames aplenty. This place is so....civilized!. I like it!. Thanks SimHQ.

#555355 - 01/13/01 03:30 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yo Rage
any chance of a copy of TYPHOON - a little down the road , so i can put up a massive
TYPHOON screenshot gallery at my web site .

A gold master candidate would be nice , any chance please ??

oh pretty please ????

Troff :-)

Troffmeister's Simulation Zone
http://www.daviesr.freeserve.co.uk

Roger " Troffmeister " Davies
Roger@Daviesr.freeserve.co.uk
Icq 58124596

#555356 - 01/13/01 03:40 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Cat Offline
Egyptian Mau
Cat  Offline
Egyptian Mau
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Somewhere....over the Rainbow
Sorry, Rog-

(giggle)

I tried forever to get an eval copy for a first-look for our readers, and couldn't even get answers to my emails. Only a very few are anointed (cue the album "Chant II" and genuflect in the direction of Warrington)...



Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#555357 - 01/15/01 11:03 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
GrahamD Offline
Member
GrahamD  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Loughton, Essex, UK
I'd like to second Troffmeister's request for a copy of Typhoon. It looks like he puts a lot of time and effort into creating his screenshot galleries and I am sure we would all like to see this.

#555358 - 01/15/01 12:50 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,013
clansman1 Offline
Member
clansman1  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,013
Scotland
S! all

"Q2 - MFDs: Some of the cockpit instruments work, e.g. status lights, horizon ball. But the 3D MFDs are static - this is due to the expense of dynamic texture etc... If you look down you can see the pilots hands moving the stick and throttle though."

Hmmm, very indistinct alarm bells have gone off in my head. Don't dumb it down too much Rage.


KONA and the Seven Stanes. No better combination
#555359 - 01/15/01 05:39 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Clansman

It's not a matter of 'dumbing' anything down. The MFDs work as they are supposed to...the only thing that has changed is their location...instead of beig imbedded in the instrument panel, they are presented along with the HUD. To operate them, you use keystrokes, not a mouse click. I don't see the issue with that...keystroke or mouse click, either one represents the RL physical action needed to cange a MFD function.

Andy

#555360 - 01/15/01 07:36 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


To Graham D - thanks for the kind words and support - you are right i do put alot of effort in to the site , and will continue to do so , thanks man :-)

To Rage - its a win win situation if you can provide me with a finalish copy to make some of my special Troff galleries . I am / was a big D.I.D - TAW / F22ADF / WARGASM / EF2000 fan !
I also intend to cover INCOMING FORCES & HOSTILE WATERS - when are they due out ??

Troff :-)

Troffmeister's Simulation Zone
http://www.daviesr.freeserve.co.uk

Roger " Troffmeister " Davies
Roger@Daviesr.freeserve.co.uk
Icq 58124596

#555361 - 01/16/01 09:36 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all,

SaneMax,
I'll ask about the source code. Not sure if it'll be a go'er though.

GrahamD
There are no seasonal changes in Typhoon but the weather changes as the campaign progresses, also, because the sim is a 24 non-stop campaign day and night pass without any jumps in lighting - which is nice.

Datajack
I doubt very much if coop campaign would come later on, again it would still take a major amount of work and I doubt enough people would want to pay for it to make it worth while. As for skin etc, there will be no support in the initial version. But support later on is not entirely out of the question.

Cat,
I don't know if TAW source will ever be release (about 800,000 lines you know!), the other problem is the data set (about 80mg and 20,000 files) and all the associated tools. It would be a difficult task to change anything meaningful (I think I'd have a job going back, and I wrote a lot of it!). In those days we didn't use 3rd party tools like MAX, so just changing one shape would not be trivial.

Troffmeister,
Doubt you'll be able to get a Gold Master - Might be a Rolling and playable demo soon though - that would give you a start.

Cheers,

Steve

#555362 - 01/16/01 09:09 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
The MFDs work as they are supposed to...the only thing that has changed is their location...instead of beig imbedded in the instrument panel, they are presented along with the HUD.


They worked in both places in TAW, but how many of us flew from the virtual cockpit view? I flew from that view less than half the time. Ideally it would be great to have both or toggle the preference, but doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

#555363 - 01/16/01 10:24 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve- Does the "no jumps in lightning" mean no day and night cycle? All missions are daytime, right/wrong?

#555364 - 01/16/01 10:44 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Cat Offline
Egyptian Mau
Cat  Offline
Egyptian Mau
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Somewhere....over the Rainbow
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
Cat,
I don't know if TAW source will ever be release (about 800,000 lines you know!), the other problem is the data set (about 80mg and 20,000 files) and all the associated tools. It would be a difficult task to change anything meaningful (I think I'd have a job going back, and I wrote a lot of it!). In those days we didn't use 3rd party tools like MAX, so just changing one shape would not be trivial.



Hi Steve-

Frankly, I'd be satisfied with a hack to put GBU-24s in the weps bay and/or to allow independent retargeting of JDAMs. Would that be terribly difficult?

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#555365 - 01/17/01 01:36 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Badboy Offline
Junior Member
Badboy  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
UK
Quote:
Originally posted by jema:
Steve- Does the "no jumps in lightning" mean no day and night cycle? All missions are daytime, right/wrong?


It means that the change from daytime to night doesn't happen suddenly. The passage of time is continuous and the lighting changes smoothly right along with it.

Leon "Badboy" Smith

#555366 - 01/17/01 05:17 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve,

1) Would the war theatre be the same as in EF2000 (i.e. Sweden)? Or there will be a couple of different theatres for us to choose from?

2) Would it be a clickable cockpit?

3) Any new armaments added apart from those we have had in EF2000?

4) What about aircrafts from the other side, would it include China's latest J-10 which looks extremely similar to the EF2000?

5) Last but not least, would it be available in Hong Kong *i.e. Asia?

Tons of thanks!



------------------
Best regards
Peter Tsang

#555367 - 01/18/01 10:10 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve Hunt,
On the question of source code for EF2000 and TAW.
1. Would it be possible to release the code publicly, or even for compensation, if there is a license agreement that stated any modifications and improvements would belong to Rage, and could be used by rage in a future release of a EF2000/TAW product.

2.Even though TAW is a long and complex code, you are probably underestimating the resources of the serious flight sim community. Case in point, Falcon4. If Microprose had such an agreement Falcon5 would be on the store shelf with next to nothing development cost by now.

3. Rage could set up a server/website to store and catalog all mods such as artwork, Realism Patches, etc... This would help rage monitor and even help to administer/support the development efforts.

4. Would the flight sim community care if Rage makes a profit from the work. I personally would not, nor do I think the vast majority would. Face it, Rage produces sims for a profit. We are not licensed to be altering sims any way. As it is, because of the cost to have a paid staff develop TAW V2.0, or the matter Falcon5, its not likely to happen, but under such an agreement it would be very likely that there would be a TAW V2.0 that would reset the military flight sim standards.

Any other thoughts from anyone?

#555368 - 01/18/01 10:58 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Badboy:
It means that the change from daytime to night doesn't happen suddenly. The passage of time is continuous and the lighting changes smoothly right along with it.

Leon "Badboy" Smith



Wonderful!

Had myself worried a while there

[This message has been edited by jema (edited January 18, 2001).]

#555369 - 01/20/01 03:14 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Peter

There is only one theater...Iceland.

The cockpit is not clickable. The MFDs are controlled by the keyboard.

Here are the EF2000 weapons and their Typhoon counterparts:

1. AIM-9M - ASRAAM
2. ASRAAM - same
3. AIM-120 AMRAAM - Meteor
4. S-225 LRAAM - Meteor
5. CRV-7 - same
6. Mk-82/83 - same
7. BL-755 - same
8. GBU-12/16 - same
9. Durandal - not modeled
10. Sea Eagle antiship missile - Penguin
11. Maverick antiarmor missile - Brimstone
12. ALARM antiradar missile - same

No Chinese aircraft!

I expect the sim to be marketed world-wide.

Andy

#555370 - 01/22/01 11:57 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cat,

#555371 - 01/22/01 12:04 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


(That'll be the tab button then!)

Cat,

Just getting the code to build and run would be difficult....

Junglegeorge,
I'll get back to you on this....

Cheers,

Steve

#555372 - 01/22/01 03:50 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Andy.

Despite the MFD has to be controlled by the keyboard, I still accept it.



------------------
Best regards
Peter Tsang

#555373 - 01/22/01 04:05 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Andy, no Chinese aircraft?? In ICELAND?!?! What's wrong with these people, don't they know how important China is in the Icelandic defense plans???
The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#555374 - 01/22/01 06:20 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great place for answers to this Typhoon sim. Thanks for the answers to Andy and Steven.

Steven i have one more question for you:

What kind of manual are we going to get? - I mean how big / detailed is it. Will it have plane/unit information in the back like TAW had? Will the manual be digital aswell?

Thanks in advance...

amp

#555375 - 01/23/01 08:39 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Andy, don't forget the cannon!

By the way, is there any other new weapons we haven't see or heard of before. There are actually less weapons in Typhoon than it's predecesor. Now that can't be right?!

Steve, do we get to choose between sub and supersonic tanks in the weapons page? Are there raking systems for multiple weapons per hard point?

These are just technical questions, I do like the game, and am a fan of the aircraft itself, so I'm definately looking forwards to the release.

#555376 - 01/24/01 11:56 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 614
bobinski Offline
Member
bobinski  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 614
sunny south london
Steve
newspaper reports today suggest Rage is canning 4-5 titles.Now this news has left me a little anxious!
Can you confirm that Typhoon is still on scedule for release subject to distribution?
On an unrelated note i would really like to get hold of the promo mpeg,s and adverts for EF2K-Some of them were pretty special .
regards
bobinski

#555377 - 01/25/01 09:51 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amp,

The manual is about 100 pages (short for a sim!), It tells you all you need to know about the game etc, without over doing it. For more real in-depth info you will be able to turn to the strat guide - I'm sure Andy and Badboy would give you some idea of what'll be in it...

There will be an electronic version on the CD (I think)

EF2000 crazy,

We have diferent centre and wing tanks, but no sup and super ones.

Depending on the weapon, you can have more than one per hard point....

bobinski,
No Typhoon hasn't been canned (it's finished!)... As far as i'm aware, these were all products in their very early stages.
Typhoon should be out around April.

Not sure where you could be the EF2K stuff though.

Cheers,

Steve

#555378 - 01/25/01 10:16 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 51
KuttaPoint Offline
Junior Member
KuttaPoint  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 51
preston lancs UK
will we get a decent quality/size keyboard overlay. the one included in FA/18E Super Hornet was tripe!!

#555379 - 01/25/01 12:53 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
Amp,

The manual is about 100 pages (short for a sim!), It tells you all you need to know about the game etc, without over doing it. For more real in-depth info you will be able to turn to the strat guide - I'm sure Andy and Badboy would give you some idea of what'll be in it...

There will be an electronic version on the CD (I think)



100 pages? As long as it's 100 very GOOD pages

At least there will be a strategy guide. If it's anything like the one's that were out for EF-2000 and ADF/TAW; I'll be the first in line to get one.

Victor

#555380 - 01/29/01 04:22 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Gel214th Offline
Junior Member
Gel214th  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Steve,

Will there be a comprehensive Single/Multiplayer mission editor for creating online/offline missions that can be shared with friends, and used by Internet Squadrons to create their own 'campaigns' of sorts?

This is currently done in Flanker 2, Janes F18,Falcon 4 etc. etc.

It has also been proven to greatly extend the life of a SImulation..or of any game for that matter.

So if not..why not?


-Gel
http://www.214th.com/f22adf


-Gel214th
#555381 - 01/29/01 09:34 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
tony draper Offline
Hotshot
tony draper  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
newcastle/united kingdom
Will there be a cigar lighter in the cockpit?, i had one in my triumph spitfire.

#555382 - 01/31/01 12:46 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Boy, Steve dropping by, this is cool.
My personal sim history:
1. DID's EF2000 V2.0
2. F-22 adf,TAW, F-15
3. Falcon 4 and F/A-18
You never forget your roots, how you got started, where you came from.
I'm buying anything Steve makes

The dynamic ground campaign has alot of
appeal for us air-to-mud drivers. I guess my question would be, do you envision additional theaters for the Typhoon down the road?


[This message has been edited by brewsky (edited January 30, 2001).]

#555383 - 01/31/01 06:17 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well guys, after an evening playing Super EF2000 and dragging my sorry, shot up a$$ back to home plate on six occassions this evening, I have to say: Typhoon has a hard act to follow.

Mr. Hunt. Thanks for your presence here, and please, please, if Typhoon does well, please consider making an add-on, bringing us back to the Scandinavian theatre.

I am literally shaking from the tension of those Super EF2000 missions. Nothing in my sim library really comes close to that visceral nastiness of the SEK2k campaign.

Gavin

#555384 - 02/01/01 10:01 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


ctbridge,

There will be a keyboard layout (not one that goes over it though).

Gel214th,

There is no support at the moment for custom missions.. we may add this as a patch later though...

why not? - cos there's only so much 4 programmers can do with two hands!

Tony,

The cigar lighter is there - and it's voice activated....

Brewsky,

Thanks...

There are no plans at this time to create different theatres for Typhoon - I suppose it depends on how well Typhoon sells.

Gavin,

That's probably the case - if Typhoon does well there maybe some extra goodies done...

Cheers,

Steve

#555385 - 02/01/01 05:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Gel214th Offline
Junior Member
Gel214th  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
ctbridge,

Gel214th,

There is no support at the moment for custom missions.. we may add this as a patch later though...

why not? - cos there's only so much 4 programmers can do with two hands!


Whyyyyyyy whyyyyyyy..
Ooooh the HORROR!!
*palpitates*
The hoooorrrooooorrrrr...
-----------------

Well..think about it..maybe if there would be an editor included..it would sell even better!
*solemn,pithy look*
Not including a mission editor..and then having Typhoon not do too well..might be a self fulfilling prophecy.
*clasps hands*
*nods slowly*
So says Dai Lama-Gel.



-Gel
http://www.carigamer.com


[This message has been edited by Gel214th (edited February 01, 2001).]


-Gel214th
#555386 - 02/02/01 12:40 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh jesus guys , if you don't allow mission editing creation , and new theatres , then this sim will suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth !!!! :-0

Sorry to say this guys but,when will you developers ever learn ????

TAW is a pretty dead sim because of lack of modding , what keps it alive for me is the AGE214 - enthusiast / net made mission editor , which DID wanted to ban etc !

Sorry to say this but in todays day and age to say , maybe these features only if it sells well truely doth suck !!

If you don't include these features , then at least please put on the game cd , some development tools to allow the net community to either make their own external mission builder , and or terrain tiling tools etc !

I am not saying this to be nasty or bitchy to you all , as i really want Typhoon to play now , and to do well, sales wise, but please please please wake up and smell the coffee , and give this much anticipated title a real chance of game play longevity , by either including or supporting these much wanted features !!!!!

Troff :-0

Troffmeister's Simulation Zone
http://www.daviesr.freeserve.co.uk

Roger " Troffmeister " Davies
Roger@Daviesr.freeserve.co.uk
Icq 58124596

#555387 - 02/02/01 02:08 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
tony draper Offline
Hotshot
tony draper  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
newcastle/united kingdom
Prefer my cigar lighter to be operated by foot pedal, only americans possess mouths big enough to talk around large cigar, so voice operated cigar lighter a problem for us limeys.and though i am reluctant to point this out this is a sim based on a limey fighter. he he he...tony d

#555388 - 02/02/01 02:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
tony draper Offline
Hotshot
tony draper  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
newcastle/united kingdom
oops doubler, sorry hit post once ,then again with large cigar,
seriously, i am longing for this sim, all these ww2 people with big mustaches and leather helmets have been spoiled this last year, its our time now.

[This message has been edited by tony draper (edited February 01, 2001).]

#555389 - 02/02/01 09:11 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Troff- Have anyone told you that if you don't like something you don't have to buy it? In any case that is how it works.

Tony D- I'd go with the foot switch, makes much more sense. Wonder how the ashtray will work.

#555390 - 02/02/01 11:36 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
GrahamD Offline
Member
GrahamD  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Loughton, Essex, UK
Take a look at the collection of dead flight sims in the bargain bin and you'll soon realise that its not a lack of mission editors that causes poor sales. It is lack of appeal and accessability to the majority. I don't think we need to preach to former DiD staff how to make a great flight sim. If they throw in a mission editor at a later date it will be an act of charity to a small minority and one which if anything hinders rather than helps sales by constantly spouting about the failings of flight sims which don't meet their exacting demands.

A mission editor would certainly give the game a longer life on the hard drive, so maybe we should just try saying please! What will also go a long way to prolonging the life of the game would be for Rage to release the occasional new "surprise" which would twist the campaign in a new direction. I would be very surprised if this is not already in the pipeline.

#555391 - 02/02/01 12:05 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 116
Shodan Offline
Member
Shodan  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally posted by GrahamD:
...
I don't think we need to preach to former DiD staff how to make a great flight sim.
...


I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.

After all, DiD hasn't exactly a "proven track record" in terms of sales since the good old EF-2000.
Can you say F-22 ADF, F-22 TAW and Wargasm?

If you look at existing flight sims, "open" sims like Falcon-4, Flanker 2.0, EECH/AH where the development team has provided information about how to modify and improve the game are still alive and followed by a number of people. People means interests, money and possibility to buy a support another product.

On the opposite side, just think to F-22 TAW whose data have been encrypted (the same dataset were not encrypted in F-22 ADF) to prevent people to do something even remotely useful.

In the case of F-22 TAW, you may wonder if there is any web site, newsgroup, mailing list of else that follows that simulator...

Only sales result will tell if Typhoon is a "great sim" or not.
Personally I will wait for the demo, try it and then decide: IMHO it is a step backward compared to EF-2000, but perhaps I am wrong.

Cheers,
Shodan

#555392 - 02/02/01 12:26 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
Oh jesus guys , if you don't allow mission editing creation , and new theatres , then this sim will suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth !!!! :-0

Sorry to say this guys but,when will you developers ever learn ????

TAW is a pretty dead sim because of lack of modding , what keps it alive for me is the AGE214 - enthusiast / net made mission editor , which DID wanted to ban etc !

Sorry to say this but in todays day and age to say , maybe these features only if it sells well truely doth suck !!

If you don't include these features , then at least please put on the game cd , some development tools to allow the net community to either make their own external mission builder , and or terrain tiling tools etc !



I don't agree that if a sim lacks mission creation or is not open to modding that it is necessarily going to "suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth".

If a sim is not lacking in features and stands up well on it's own; then those things you mention are just icing on the cake. The lack of these things don't break a good sim..but they do prop up a mediocre one. I think Typhoon will probably stand up well on it's own as it's not lacking much. The inclusion of the deep campaign balances out the lack of a mission editor IMHO On the other hand if Typhoon consisted of only 20 or so canned missions; a mission editor would become more important.

Of course that's not to say I wouldn't like to see some of the possible additions to Typhoon that Steve has hinted at here and on the EF-2000 list. If the sim is good and successful; we'll hopefully see those enhancements.

And BTW..TAW is not a dead sim in the least at my house. I still have a long way to finally complete those 10 campaigns that came with the game

#555393 - 02/02/01 02:57 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Shodan:
I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.


If you pay for the delevopement of the title yes, other than that absolute no. Why? You are not a customer yeat. And if you don't like the finished product you don't have to buy it. At the end of the day though Rage has to pay for it.

Sure you can send in "I wish this sim would..." lists to various developers and they may even ask your opinion on what you would like to see in a specific product. But that doesn't warrant you to flame the product or the developer if they choose to dissregar your suggestions.

[This message has been edited by jema - SimHQ (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555394 - 02/02/01 03:17 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Tracer[formerly of CS] Offline
Senior Member
Tracer[formerly of CS]  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by Shodan:
I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.

Cheers,
Shodan



Think of it like a car.....if you are after safety features for eg (in Typhoon terms-open architechture)if one vehicle has Airbags/ABS etc and it's not available as an option on another. Then you will naturaly buy the vehicle *with* safety features.
Because that's the features you want?

If on the other hand you are not bothered by those features then you are free to pick either....(which would be the person buying Typhoon as a game not bothered about the option of open architechture)which is exactly what implies here.
No one if forcing you to buy Typhoon or any other game,it's your choice

What is poison to one customer is food for the other.
Sadly games will *never* satisfy everyone's whims.

Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#555395 - 02/02/01 06:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve Hunt
Any news on the questions of source code and development ideals for EF2000 and TAW posted on January 18?
gwarren1@airmail.net
http://www.fightersim.com
REF:
Quote:
Originally posted by Junglegeorge:
Steve Hunt,
On the question of source code for EF2000 and TAW.
1. Would it be possible to release the code publicly, or even for compensation, if there is a license agreement that stated any modifications and improvements would belong to Rage, and could be used by rage in a future release of a EF2000/TAW product.

2.Even though TAW is a long and complex code, you are probably underestimating the resources of the serious flight sim community. Case in point, Falcon4. If Microprose had such an agreement Falcon5 would be on the store shelf with next to nothing development cost by now.

3. Rage could set up a server/website to store and catalog all mods such as artwork, Realism Patches, etc... This would help rage monitor and even help to administer/support the development efforts.

4. Would the flight sim community care if Rage makes a profit from the work. I personally would not, nor do I think the vast majority would. Face it, Rage produces sims for a profit. We are not licensed to be altering sims any way. As it is, because of the cost to have a paid staff develop TAW V2.0, or the matter Falcon5, its not likely to happen, but under such an agreement it would be very likely that there would be a TAW V2.0 that would reset the military flight sim standards.


[This message has been edited by Junglegeorge (edited February 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Junglegeorge (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555396 - 02/02/01 07:58 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's a difficult balance for Steve. On the one hand, the hardcore simmers want to re-live the glory days of DID's EF-2000, on the other is a need for a commercial product that appeals to the masses. BTW, my brother loves TAW, which i left on my old computer, and F4 is to complex for him.
I think Gavin and Shodan made some good points. I would lean towards mid- core/hardcore. If you provide the only high fidelity Typhoon sim on the planet, you'll have 100% market share. Steel beasts is a good example of the current trend,it's hardcore, mid-core graphics, and has 100% market share. They are the only game in town if you want a hardcore tank sim. Sales might only be 50,000, and not 5 million, but you'll make some money. I'm sure Steve will make Typhoon the best sim he possibily can, because there probably is noone out there who know's that aircraft better than him, and can program too

[This message has been edited by brewsky (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555397 - 02/02/01 09:16 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


just wanted to say that the mission campaign mode in TAW didn't fill 10% of what i got from the mission editors of games like Fighters Anthology. Too general, too broad.

of course, custom missions by players is annoying to get, download, extract, and then play. if only we had a much easier way.

#555398 - 02/02/01 11:09 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry to say this , it may sound harsh but this thread / discussion is not titled lets all kiss the arse of the developers of the sim we all want to fly !

I don't understand Jema's points at all , if you are trying to be devils advocate or what !

Of course , as customers we all have the right to choose our purchases of sims , and based on the games industry news which has been broadcast on uk national tv news today things are not looking good at all in the industry , but i will come to that in a minute !

Firstly without regurgitating my previous post , which was not a flame or disrespectful - i merely called it as i saw and how i feel , i stated that and suggested constructive alternative suggestions , eg dev tools , net community to mod etc !!

Frankly if DID had helped the net community sims like wargasm , f22adf , taw etc - would still be flourishing in my view with new levels , features etc - personally that is what i like about sims and the www - the ability that sims get modded by clever talented people , and we all get to download stuff , and keep playing great games .

Please note i think all DID games were / are great !
Please also note i am not a hardcore flight model simmer , see my thread on the flight simulation section of this board , so this has no bearing on my views .

Please note i was one of the very few that voiced my interest in , and would like to see further add ons and life granted to TAW , so i am no enemy of RAGE or TYPHOON , or the coder guys working away hard there !

I have merely stated my heart felt democratic opinion , on what i see as a very poorly made decision to omit these features at release as so far stated - if this means i am not falling into line with the brown tongue brigade then tough !

Today news was released on national tv here in uk that codemasters had laid off a load of staff , also a high street games chain was closing all its branches - gameplay , and that its shares were worth only 10% of their value from that of 1 year ago - this games chain is also part owned and backed by Rupert Murdock / Sky Tv too i believe , so this is not good news , games sales are low too coz peps are awaiting new super consoles - i spose x box !!

Rage have recently axed some games - 5 i believe , i don't see what is wrong in us / me as customers in questioning Rage's plans for the future of Typhoon - personally i would push for all features up front , as i don't trust the bean counters and suits at rage to pull the financial plug out from under Typhoon add ons or patches , once the game hits the shops - does this sound familiar people !!

To be frank , you can't trust the suits they are financial peeps not game play simming enthusiasts , so their promises cannot be banked , i feel !

I think that before all us simmers go to purchase Typhoon , once its ready - it would be nice to have a public declaration from Rage / the development team stating their intentions re commercial add ons , or support for modding / open architecture ,

Then going back to Jema's points / declarations , we can all make our purchasing decisions in a fully briefed environment - i.e is this sim a one off open and shut product or does it have a guaranteed future / life - even if this just means support to a www based modding community ??

So thats my challenge , can the team level with us and give us this info / reassurances please ??

Troff :-0

#555399 - 02/03/01 12:32 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
I don't understand Jema's points at all
Somehow that doesn't surprise me at all.

if you are trying to be devils advocate or what !
Hell is no longer a client of mine since they on several occations neglected to meet their bill. When confronted with the question of how to address the issue their representative was commonly heard to, and I quote, say "Too hell with it!".

Then going back to Jema's points / declarations , we can all make our purchasing decisions in a fully briefed environment - i.e is this sim a one off open and shut product or does it have a guaranteed future / life - even if this just means support to a www based modding community ??
How more fully briefed can you get than "Not supported"? An open structure does not guarantee the developer anything.

I have merely stated my heart felt democratic opinion
And now for the $10 000 question, "What have jema done?"

- if this means i am not falling into line with the brown tongue brigade then tough !
I do see you falling in line with a bridage, but it is far more than their tounges that are brown...


Brewsky- 100% of a very small market share doesn't bring in all that much money. I'm sure the "Steel beasts" team can verify this.

[This message has been edited by jema - SimHQ (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555400 - 02/03/01 01:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jema , to me your retorts are coming across as you being some kind of a wooden spoon wielding wind up merchant !

Sorry but i cannot hold a rational conversation with some one of your mind set , so i will not bother further !

I have made my points clear , if Rage care to clarify thats up to them , if this product turns out to be no more than a Pc version of
Playstations - Namco's Ace Combat 69 - then i will decline to purchase - enough said !

Troff

#555401 - 02/03/01 03:38 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all.

Two points.

One: Source code? Ef2000 and TAW? Aww man... talk about mana from heaven! That would be a GOOD Thing. A very good thing.

Secondly:

TAW and SEF2k are still valid, playable sims. You can have as much fun (what is this crap? You don't play sims for fun, you play sims to get the bejaysus scared out of you) with SEF2k and TAW. TAW would have been improved by a lack of enemy aircraft spawning. SEF2k would have been greatly improved by a ground war. Both would have been improved by inter-operability. (Typhoons and F-22s in the same war? wow)

Thirdly:

I think Typhoon is on the right track. It will probably rock. However, do not, Rage, I urge you, let Typhoon die.

I had an idea a few months back that i posted on the message boards on Combatsim, way back when. The gist of it was:

Three theatres:
Iceland, GIUK and Scandinavia. Iceland is as it will be in Typhoon. The Giuk scenario would be a TAW style, AWACS driven air war. You, as RAF commander, uses your Typhoons and Tornadoes to ward off Bear attacks, and probes by enemy fighters. And thirdly, pretty much the same deal as the old EF2000, with a ground war.

As the game develops, perhaps things that people have complained about like MFDs and cockpits could be changed.

Gavin

#555402 - 02/03/01 04:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 116
tango29er Offline
Member
tango29er  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 116
Australia
Steve,

what will the max resolution we will be able to set it at? And does it play on your machine smoothly at that max res?

Regarding the mission editor no included, this was disappointing at first but looking back on the size of EF2000 campaign and it's
addon's like TACTCOM etc, if Typhoon is around the same size as in number of missions
and then it might not be so bad.
As Steve said their 4 programmers can only fit so much in to one product given time/money etc.
EF2000 was my first sim and only played a few missions so I'm not familiar with the size of the campaign.
If Steve could let us know in terms of size
of the campaign (sorry if disccused earlier)
and would the surprise factor be there if played again and again?
Lastly will you be releasing it worldwide simultaneously?
Thanks for your time.
Paul Haken.

#555403 - 02/03/01 04:55 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


To Gavin Bennett , hell i play sims for fun ,not to practice being a pilot !!

No one is suggesting any previous DID product is defunct / obselete even now - i still play ef2000 3dfx , taw , wargasm etc they are all on my 30 gb hd right now as i type this :-)

The point i am making is , if DID or Rage , or any over developer , support the WWW community , then a sim will have a longer life and following hopefully !

Whatever others feel , thats my opinion ,

why can't sim developers allow their sims to be modded ??
just think would the FPS genre be what it is today , if the Dooms & Quakes & Half Lifes etc of this world had not been user / enthusiast modable eg new 3d levels etc ???

By not having a mission editor / builder for me this is very very bad , just for my own selfish fun reasons if no other :-0

Again i would say , will we end up with say a web mission editor being made by an enthusiast , with Rage then moving to ban such a product , in the same way DID got upset with the AGE214 taw editor ??

If we get an in game editor , end of story great , alternatively if the 4 coders have their hands full , again i would respectfully ask /request , that some help of info or liasion be given to a www enthusiast typhoon coding group , to enable them to develop a free , gratis mission editor with Rage's blessing .

And please Jema don't keep on saying its not in the developers interest !
Because development and purchase is surely a two way street , obviously the Typhoon coders want to deliver a top notch product that is fun and playabe with good features , and conversely we want to buy fly and enjoy such a product !

More importantly said product needs to do well and sell , so that the Rage suits stay happy and maybe will then further finance the Typh team to do patches , and commercial addons etc - just because i type my thoughts on forums from a simming enthusiast point of view , i do live in the real world , and understand commercial viability & finance .
Typhoon is only being produced ultimately to make money - i do kapish that !! :-)

For some lack of an editor though will be too hard to swallow , and i am sure it will put some off purchasing !

People keep banging on ,on forums and sims sites about buying and supporting the remaining developers sims,for fear of the genre dying etc

yet Typhoon won't have an editor , i really can't remember a sim off the top of my head that does not have one in built - even thinking back to the EA range of Janes Atf / Us Navy Fighters etc !!! and they came out before voodoo 1 cards , they don't even have 3dfx support - but they do have wickedly fun in built mission editors !

To me this is just another example of simming in game features going backwards and not progressing forwards , and it has nothing to do with fun , or flight model or how hard core a simmer you are etc , its like going to the shop and buying a can of coke , pulling off the ring pull , ok u have the coke can packaging but no drink inside , from a marketing / perception point of view it is a backwards step / regression - in MY opinion because you are flying in the face of what people expect as standard on a simming product !

Troff

#555404 - 02/03/01 06:46 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Troff.

I play to have fun, but the boundrary between sheer terror and fun is a little blurred when the SAMs start launching.

I wasn't suggesting that TAW or EF2k are obsolete, nor was I correcting anyone. The point, which I forgot to make is that these sims, all these years later, still hold their own against such luminaries as F/A-18 and Falcon 4.0. Now, if only they had been developed. TAW used an updated EF2000 graphics engine, and DirectX. Imagine if you could fly EF2k as-is, with TAW graphics and DirectX support for all your kewl new hardware? ie, Imagine if DID kept supporting the sims, bringing out the occassional updates, or new editions. They probably would have made money.

Gavin

#555405 - 02/03/01 06:51 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


And you and me both re: Fighters Anthology. That's where I cut my simulation teeth, and I still hold a strange little affection for the game. FA was a lousy sim, but it created a wonderful, loyal, paying fan base. ATF and FA were big sellers for EA.

(Don't you just love sims, we talk in acronyms!)

If Ef2000 had been designed to include a built in mission editor (TAW was meant to have one) then it would have spawned a community who would have a: supported them sim, and b: purchased any upgrades and add-ons as time went on. (Which is what happened with USNF, then US MF, then USNF Gold, then ATF, then NATO Fighters, then USNF 97, then ATF Gold, then FA - seven or eight products based on one lousy graphics engine!)

Gavin

#555406 - 02/03/01 10:00 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
Jema , to me your retorts are coming across as you being some kind of a wooden spoon wielding wind up merchant !
Sorry dude we quit the wood spoons back in 1523, it's all metal now. I told them we shouldn't go into all that new fancy stuff because steel isn't real and you can't carve your own name in it or anything. But here we are and they are working quite good.


Sorry but i cannot hold a rational conversation with some one of your mind set , so i will not bother further !

I must confess that I can not meet your standards conversation. This must be a real problem for you. Finding people who can keep pace with your rational ways. How you must suffer.

then i will decline to purchase
No matter what it turns out to be you can still do that.



[This message has been edited by jema - SimHQ (edited February 03, 2001).]

#555407 - 02/03/01 10:19 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
why can't sim developers allow their sims to be modded ??
Intellectual property??

And please Jema don't keep on saying its not in the developers interest !
That comes down to the intended marked group, the development goals and what the publisher has in mind for the product. May I suggest some reading up on basic buisness and market conduct?


Personally I'll take Andys and Leons word for it, it's great. Mission editing or not.

#555408 - 02/03/01 12:21 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by jema - SimHQ:
Personally I'll take Andys and Leons word for it, it's great. Mission editing or not.


My sentiments exactly! So far we've only heard good things from those who have the sim; and that's ALL that matters at this point. As great as it would be if Typhoon was at some point open to third party modifications; I really don't have a problem with the lack of a mission editor. The game has a fully dymanic campaign which which should keep most people busy for a while.

But I don't subscribe to the notion that a sim has got to suck just because it's missing this or that feature. Especially these 2 features in the case of Typhoon. When did a built mission editor and modding capabilities become more important that the sim itself?

#555409 - 02/03/01 05:41 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 116
Shodan Offline
Member
Shodan  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally posted by jema - SimHQ:

... And if you don't like the finished product you don't have to buy it. At the end of the day though Rage has to pay for it.
...


Mr. Jema,
I do not know what you do apart from being SimHQ administrator but ... There are a couple of things that you seem to ignore or at least misunderstand. Please keep in mind the following:

1) The money Rage uses to fund the development of Typhoon (or any other software) does not come from "outer space", or from ONU, FAO or WWF. It is simply coming from sales of previous products, in other words, from previous customers (how odd, like me for example :-).

2) Now, would my opinion by more "important" had I pre-ordered/pre-paid Typhoon? I am afraid not. On the contrary, it would be *less* important. If I have already purchased Typhoon, Rage has already cashed my share. I do not represent anymore a potential revenue (at least for Typhoon).

3) What I am thinking to buy Typhoon and I have not yet done it? *Then* I am important! I have money that Rage may appreciate. If I do not find Typhoon appealing, I will not buy it and Rage will not be happy! At this point, they have already invested in the development of Typhoon, paid the programmers, packed the CDs.

Having said that, I hope that it will dawn on you that if I make questions, remarks or whatever, pointing out that I have already purchased F-22 TAW/ADF and EF-2000, it is because I am trying to find good reasons to buy Typhoon.

Why do you think there is a Rage programmer answering our boring questions and trying to handle one way or another our complains? Perhaps because he has time to waste? That guy, which I think is doing an excellent job, is trying as much as possible to generate interest and convince people that Typhoon will be a good game.

The last thing he/Rage needs, is someone that explains (as if it was really needed :-): "If you don't like Typhoon, don't buy it."

I am sure that any Rage competitor is now rolling on floor and laughing, having read a line like that in a "Typhoon" forum.

Have a nice day,
Shodan

#555410 - 02/03/01 06:11 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Gavin , thanks for your reply , i was not bashing you re DID sims , i was just stating my position re love of them etc :-)

It seems that you understand my points and rational re modding and my feeling re the DID sims which is great , i have the full range of the EA / JANES sims , FA - fighters anthology is on my hd now , remember downloading all those modded libs for these sims , cool :-)

To Jema , i read your profile , to try to understand where you are coming from , i find your posting style annoying and offensive to be frank !

If we were having a face to face conversation and you made that remark about me not understanding finace - i would have smacked you on the nose , i make a point of trying to post rationally and in an understandable and conversive way , it seems you prefer not too !

Have you graduated from the Derek Smart school of forum posting by any chance ?

Regardless i will try one last time in plain simple english to put across a point to you , please try your very hardest to engage brain and try to see the other side of a conversation for a change here goes !

Right direct question to you -

Re intellectual property right - of course DID hold these rights for their titles , EF2000 , WARGASM , TAW etc - ok each product was sealed and released to a buying public - each product to date has never been further supported , no commercial add ons etc .

Infogrames own the rights now to these products - what good are these rights if the product is dead , by this i mean each game is on the budget shelves now !

So what harm would there be in helping a www modding community to mod / enhance these titles on a free download basis ????

I would argue that the fact these titles are on the budget price shelf , the publishers are trying to reap and ring as much money out of these old products as possible , so if modding of these products was allowed / supported eg dev tools etc , then customer interest would be revived / rekindled and further sales of the original products would take place - a win win financial situation for the publisher and the player !!

please consider this direct question carefully and let me have your thoughts , thankyou

Troff

#555411 - 02/03/01 08:53 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Shodan:
There are a couple of things that you seem to ignore or at least misunderstand.
Likewise.

1) The money Rage uses to fund the development of Typhoon (or any other software) does not come from "outer space", or from ONU, FAO or WWF. It is simply coming from sales of previous products, in other words, from previous customers (how odd, like me for example :-).
If DiD made so much money on their previous products why have they then been bought by and merged with another company? I would say it's the other way around. You lend money during development and then hope to make it back when the product is finished.

2) Now, would my opinion by more "important" had I pre-ordered/pre-paid Typhoon? I am afraid not. On the contrary, it would be *less* important. If I have already purchased Typhoon, Rage has already cashed my share. I do not represent anymore a potential revenue (at least for Typhoon).
A fitting interpetation as we are on the topic of misunderstandings. If you give someone money to do something you can set demands and criteria. If you are moving on a open market of ready-made products your only option is to choose. Do you really think that developers can do what ever they want once the publisher have given them the advance money?

At this point, they have already invested in the development of Typhoon, paid the programmers, packed the CDs.
And they are now on the phone calling the programmers back to work and unpacking the boxes to give you a mission editor?

Having said that, I hope that it will dawn on you that if I make questions, remarks or whatever, pointing out that I have already purchased F-22 TAW/ADF and EF-2000, it is because I am trying to find good reasons to buy Typhoon.
And in reflection of you previous purshases the proven track record is not reason enough for you?

The last thing he/Rage needs, is someone that explains (as if it was really needed :-): "If you don't like Typhoon, don't buy it."

Some people seemed in need to have it explained.

I am sure that any Rage competitor is now rolling on floor and laughing, having read a line like that in a "Typhoon" forum.
Would that be the "If you don't like it..." line? In any case I'm convinced that there are plenty of lines in this thread that will cause more amusement than that one.

Have a nice day,
Likewise

#555412 - 02/03/01 09:01 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all.

Part of this debate boils down to what Flight Sims as a genre, as a game, and as a thing we buy. What are they?

I have not, ever, completed a Flight Sim. I gave up playing Strike Commander. I think I have finished about 2 or 3 of the Fighters Anthology campaigns. I finished two TAW campaigns. I think I completed EF2000 once, at the 7 difficulty. I completed some of the F-22ADF campaigns, but i was spreading my simming time between FA, ADF and F-15. I had my ass handed to me in F/A-18 last week, and I am still playing the F-15 campaign. Oh i completed the Iran campaign in Longbow2, but not the training campaign.

What does that mean? Well it means, you don't buy sims the way you buy something like oh, say, Tomb Raider. You don't see a rating in a magazine saying: "40 hours of gameplay" describing a flight sim. (If you buy it in England, that would be a quid an hour)

Software publishers like nice pigeon holed games, that you buy, you complete, and you wait for the next one, with bigger hooters. Sims, you buy, you play, and maybe 10 years later, people are still playing it, and complaining that they can't get it to run under Win2k (think, Tornado).

In other words, if you get into the simming game, you need to create a new market model.

One suggestion I had for Falcon 4.0s development, back in the day, when MPS were developing, was to do the following.
1: Finish the patching process.
2: Release a 4.5/Gold edition, with, say, a Block 40 F-16, and a new theatre, say Israel.
3: Release a series of "plane only" add-ons, downloadable off the net (akin to what the F4Alliance are doing now, only for money). An excellent choice would have been an AV-8B.

Why? It meant while MPS were making their next "full" F4 themed product (eg, MiG-29 or F-15E), things were still happening, money was still coming in, feedback was still happening, and the game would be "alive." Gilman made some hints in this direction. i think the idea would have worked. Whats more, net penetration has increased a lot - to the extent that in Canada, the federal government is considering declaring Hi-Speed ADSL internet to be a citizen's right, an essential service akin to nation TV. In that environment, it would be more pratical to sell a game that goes and looks at its makers website about once a week, and gets new software patches and updates without confusing people.

The relevance to this thread?

DID/Rage were once the leaders of the genre, with EF2000. Its time they led the genre out of its rut with Typhoon. We need to support them, if they take this risk.

They need to keep Typhoon alive. They need to support it with new theatres, new features, better cockpits... and we will pay for these things. We will do it gladly. TAW was not a good business model, because TAW came out nearly a year (well, 11 months: ADF came out in November, TAW the following October) after ADF; and it was promised in Spring. People felt ripped off, and while the dynamic campaign was worth every penny of buying TAW (despite the endless supply of enemy aircraft, and lack of a multiplayer campaign), almost every review lead with the line: this is great, but, its just a dynamic campaign tacked onto ADF, which you already have, or words to that effect).

A living sim has a following. A following buys sequels and add-ons. Sims live via mission editors, skin editors, and campaign builders (observer Jane's F/A-18).

Gavin

Gavin

#555413 - 02/03/01 10:51 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
CRASH - SimHQ Offline
Senior Member
CRASH - SimHQ  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
Antioch, CA
Everyone take a big step back ... look at your own posts and posting style before you start attacking someone else's ... take a real deep breath ... and knock this off NOW!

We will not tolerate these types of posts directed at, or directed from, anyone. Period. This is a shame since this thread had some merit and did ellicit some excellent responses. If anyone feels the need to continue on the downward spiral, I will lock the thread.

That was plain and simple English ... I hope everyone understood it.



------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#555414 - 02/03/01 11:33 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


sorry to say this Crash but if you want to close the thread go ahead !

I have been trying to have an integrated and rational conversation , so has Gavin and many others , we have been talking intelligently and fron the heart re DID sims / Rage Typhoon lack of features , mission editor etc , i see nothing wrong in that .

The only person on this forum who is antagonising matters is your forum administrator , who seems to get off on a lets beat down the posters attitude !

Sorry to say that , but i see that as being fact .
I want / wanted an adult conversation on this topic with multiple points of view , i believe most posts convey this , sorry you fel this has degenerated , what was wrong with Gavins last highly valid response ??

Troff :-0

#555415 - 02/04/01 01:03 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


On a positive post with respect to all.
I would like to repost my previous question to Steve Hunt:
Any news about the questions and ideals on source code and/or development of EF2000 / TAW.

Steve,
I'm certainly not a business person (A & P Avionics Mechanic). I don't see how a new serious military aviation sim ("Hardcore", but scaleable for new people) could ever be produced under the current accepted business models of developers do all. I think that the below listed ideals might be or lead to an answer to this situation.

Some examples of current efforts by the flight sim community are:
http://www.17hours.com This looks very promising. Just think if they had one paid full time administrator/programer!
Another one is http://www.users.qwest.net/~boddman/csp it seems like it may be successfully.
And of course, by now Falcon4 is really more like Falcon5.
Plus there are more such efforts that may or may not go anywhere.

I am very much interested in your/Rage's opinions as I really believe that DiDs EF2000/TAW concept is a extremely good candidate for such a project.

gwarren1@airmail.net

Quote:
Originally posted by Junglegeorge:
Steve Hunt,
On the question of source code for EF2000 and TAW.
1. Would it be possible to release the code publicly, or even for compensation, if there is a license agreement that stated any modifications and improvements would belong to Rage, and could be used by rage in a future release of a EF2000/TAW product.

2.Even though TAW is a long and complex code, you are probably underestimating the resources of the serious flight sim community. Case in point, Falcon4. If Microprose had such an agreement Falcon5 would be on the store shelf with next to nothing development cost by now.

3. Rage could set up a server/website to store and catalog all mods such as artwork, Realism Patches, etc... This would help rage monitor and even help to administer/support the development efforts.

4. Would the flight sim community care if Rage makes a profit from the work. I personally would not, nor do I think the vast majority would. Face it, Rage produces sims for a profit. We are not licensed to be altering sims any way. As it is, because of the cost to have a paid staff develop TAW V2.0, or the matter Falcon5, its not likely to happen, but under such an agreement it would be very likely that there would be a TAW V2.0 that would reset the military flight sim standards.

Any other thoughts from anyone?



[This message has been edited by Junglegeorge (edited February 03, 2001).]

#555416 - 02/04/01 01:20 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Gavin you make some interesting points re F4 , I don't know if you are aware of the number of downloads of the Erazor f4 patch , 17,000 people i believe proving F4 is still very strong !

You may also be aware of a patch in the works for Flanker 2 , which will upgrade it to version 2.5 with lotsa great new features .

There has been quite a bit of argumentive behaviour over at the flanker 2 official site forum , between developer and fans re promised and missing features on F2 , a developer statement was made this week to calm tempers etc !

I will come to the point on this issue though , me personally i have never put my credit cards details into the web or purchased simming stuff off the web , preferring high street shop purchases !

If for example the 2.5 FLANKER 2 patch was say only downloadable off the net , requiring say a credit card purchase of say 2 uk gbp or equivalent dollars etc via a secure credit card facility before the file was downloadable , i would be prepared to pay for an enhancement patch !

I would not though pay for a generic bug fix patch , the 2.5 patch i am referring to will be a bit special because it will transform F2 and add new features !

Now imagine as you suggested if such a scenario had existed via Hasbro re F4 , new add on patches giving features and new aircraft etc - i believe the 17,000 that downloaded the Erazor F4 patch , would have been the same people paying via credit card a few dollars to Hasbro .

If this scenario had happened we would now be in a different era , and simming reality re F4 etc .

I believe this credit card avenue is a model that maybe Rage and others should consider , in making patches and add ons for sims eg Typhoon etc .

I would not pay up front for a promised patch , but at least the suits at the developers would know that potentially 17,000 people will pay by credit card for a patch once its completed , and besides no credit card purchase - no patch download !

There must be a better way in this simming genre to balance and grant the wishes of the end user and enthusiast , with the development costs incurred , and ultimately to keep the talented coder guys & development teams in jobs , to turn out the sims we all want to play and enjoy :-)

Troff

#555417 - 02/04/01 02:34 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
CRASH - SimHQ Offline
Senior Member
CRASH - SimHQ  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,336
Antioch, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troffmeister:
sorry to say this Crash but if you want to close the thread go ahead !

Thank you so much for your permission.

The only person on this forum who is antagonising matters is your forum administrator , who seems to get off on a lets beat down the posters attitude !

I disagree with your assessment. There is not a single person to blame here. You are as much into this as anyone else. Everyone needs to face up to their portion of this issue and not try to pass of the blame on someone else. The fact that you are placing blame does not help your case in the least.

what was wrong with Gavins last highly valid response ??

Nothing, ... my post was directed at you and my staff.

Junglegeorge,
Thanks for reminding us why we are here. I appreciate it.

------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
President, SimHQ.com
crash@SimHQ.com
Author of "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky"
http://www.flightsimcentral.com/fsc/howtolivandd.html

[This message has been edited by CRASH - SimHQ (edited February 03, 2001).]


Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#555418 - 02/04/01 04:13 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all.

I am very aware of the amazing work being done on both Falcon 4.0 and F/A-18, and I am awaiting the 2.5 add-on patch for Typhoon.

However, my thoughts were aimed squarely at Rage, who are in a unique position to become a market leader in a particular genre. A situation with cut-throat competition between the F2 series and a Typhoon based series would rock ;-)

Your suggestion re: enhancement patches is a very valid one. Again, I would be willing to pay for small enhancement patches to Typhoon. (And a Gr. Mk. 9 Harrier add-on is as valid an idea for Typhoon as it was for Falcon 4.0 *cough* *cough* *hint* *hint*). But the situation needs to exist where it looks like such will make money. The developers need to be able to point to a plethora of webpages and community areas and say: here is our market. These suckers will buy our stuff. (An exaggeration, but i am a true flight sim sucker!)

One other thing: if there have been 20k downloads for eFalcon, why the have the other 100K buyers not downloaded the damn thing. Someone needs to get the print media by the throat and bring eFalcon 1.09 to their phillistine souls).

Gavin

#555419 - 02/04/01 04:24 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Crash, if you want to take issue with me , feel free to email me , my address-

Roger@Daviesr.freeserve.co.uk
Icq 58124596

Frankly i am very angry ,and more than happy to communicate with you off thread by mail or icq !

I was hoping the thread was going to evolve into something more constructive naturally , you will note i was trying to engage your member of staff in a more rational conversation , suggesting to be more open minded and see both sides of a conversation , and i asked for his feedback on a direct,specific scenario question .

Your comment regarding my permission - whoa !!! where does that come from - your site your forum , your decision if you lock a thread ,that was my point , if you took it to mean something else your interpretation , NOT my intended meaning .
Most people in democratic societies don't like to be being gagged or censored.

Regarding this threads discussion matter , you will see i have attempted to move this discussion along constructively in my prior response to Gavin , and by thus doing so , am attempting to bury the unpleastness on both sides from previous posts .

Look forward to hearing from you

Troff

#555420 - 02/04/01 07:38 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ooops, I meant 2.5 for Flanker... ooops.

A lot of people bought F4. Not as many as we would have liked, but a lot of people bought it. So these people have got to be informed that "we" ( the Falcon 4 community) have fixed it and made it better.

Su-27 1.5 has a large following. They have to be nurtured across to F2.

And Ef2000 was the best selling sim ever, and ever single buyer of that game who has an up to the minute PC has to be convinced to want Typhoon. If it sounds cynical, it is. It's for their own good!

;-)

Gavin

#555421 - 02/04/01 03:13 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
NipponDSM Offline
Member
NipponDSM  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
VA
In the August magazine of "Combat Aircraft," there's a blurb stating that the RAF version of Eurofighter will be cannonless...as a cost-saving measure...

What version will we see in the game? Cannon or no? I'm assuming cannon (cannonless would be stupid, IMO), but thought I would ask.

Looks like Typhoon will be a winner...looking forward to it!



------------------
Ron aka NipponDSM http://members.tripod.com/~WIGGLIT/EECH.html


Currently playing:
  • Arma 2 & 3
  • IL2 Sturmovik (BoK, BoB, & BoS)

Videos/Broadcasts
#555422 - 02/04/01 03:34 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
NipponDSM Offline
Member
NipponDSM  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
VA
One more note:

Maybe in the future, if the sim becomes extremely popular, maybe, how about modeling a plane that hasn't been modeled all too much...as an add-on.

Maybe another Euro-jet (JAS39 Gripen or Dassault Rafale)...





------------------
Ron aka NipponDSM http://members.tripod.com/~WIGGLIT/EECH.html


Currently playing:
  • Arma 2 & 3
  • IL2 Sturmovik (BoK, BoB, & BoS)

Videos/Broadcasts
#555423 - 02/05/01 02:25 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Allright!! Enough of this! We started this Typhoon forum as a way to pass along info on the existing game...not to provide an outlet for arguments on features not included in the game!

As for the question on resolution...the game includes a utility that allows you to select up to a 1024X768X32 capability. I run a P3 866, 256 PC-133 RAM, and a V5 5500 with everything maxed out and it looks and runs great.

These discussions about mission editors are missing the point. You DON'T select missions to fly in this game! You fly a war! What you (and your six pilots) do, determines what happens next. Are there scripted missions? Yes...in a sense. They exist because the AI has to have something to oppose your decisions with. You employ your pilots in a given manner, and the AI has a selection of responese to oppose that move...these can be thought of as missions, I suppose.

Think of a chess game. There are a multitude of individual moves, but these only make any sense when seen with respect to the opponent's moves. So it is with Typhoon. Yes, there are strike missions and CAP missions. There are also Wild Weasel and intercept missions...but these all arise depending on how the war is playing out...and you must use your forces in the best possible way depending on the changing battlefield.

I say again...this is not EF-2000v3...it is not F4...or JF-18. It is a whole new approach to air combat simulation. You must be able to fly a high tech aircraft against some very high tech bad guys...AND...you must plan and employ your limited forces to beat back a numerically superior invading enemy.

Those of you who choose to spend your money on this game had better also plan on spending a few brain cells in the bargain. It's not going to be easy to beat the Rooskies...but if you do, I think you're going to be grinning from now to Sunday.

Andy

#555424 - 02/05/01 02:46 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
tony draper Offline
Hotshot
tony draper  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
newcastle/united kingdom
Right on Andy, put your foot down with a firm hand, i'm just looking forward to a new jet sim, i don't care if it comes with a meter i gota feed coins into, pity about the specs i was hoping for a excuse to upgrade again.
Reminds me of the first moon shot, the engineers kept sticking new wigets and gizzmo's into the command module, all the drawings and specs had to be constantly updated, one of the astronauts had to say stop! freeze the bugger right now or we'll never get to the moon.

#555425 - 02/05/01 06:25 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
Agreed. Thanx Andy for your input. You have the game, so I trust your judgement..and opinion.

Now if only I could get my hands on the game.

[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited February 05, 2001).]

#555426 - 02/05/01 11:53 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Andy, the voice of reason, as usually, and this is meant without any sarcasm!

I want to ask the following question: for those of you who have them all, be honest with yourselves: was buying Jane's F/A-18 as exhilarating as it was buying, say Longbow 2 or Falcon 4.0? Even though it's arguably the best of its kind, the concept it stuck to was done so often already that even the hardest of die hards might not be as enthusiastic about it as they wish they would be. I think I am not wrong when I say that JF/A-18 got less flight hours with an average hardcore sim player than, say, JF-15, even though it's a vastly superior product.

Making Typhoon conform to the artificial norms the simming community set on itself would mean getting yet another resource draining sim that will perhaps polish a few things here and there but lack some features (all sims do) for which it would be criticized hard an long. Distancing itself from this approach and perhaps alienating a, let's face it, small, although vocal part of community is probably it's best chance of success and actually providing us with a new and exciting way of enjoying the by now rather stale simming genre.

-Gecko

[This message has been edited by Gecko (edited February 05, 2001).]

#555427 - 02/05/01 03:49 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Gecko

Excellent point. I had exactly that response to JF-18...and Flanker2 before it. Both are outstanding sims...but are much like 'peas in a pod' after F4 established the benchmark for 'hardcore' sims. I don't mean this as a critical remark...only as a way of saying that the very remarkable hardcore sims of the last couple of years have boxed themselves into a very tight package (as they come out of the box...add-ons can change this, of course!).

Rage feels that there are players out there that will value sim play that goes outside the 'hardcore' boundaries. Typhoon offers this in spades. Will it be successful? I hope so...'fun' should extend to all players, not just the interests of one segment of the hobby.

Andy

#555428 - 02/05/01 04:52 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


In regards to the idea of "thousands of people will pay for a patch":

Suppose all 17,000 of those people agreed to pay $10 for a patch. At today's rates that'll pay a year's salary for two, maybe three programmers, tops, leaving no money for facilities, equipment, managers, PR, or profit.

Now factor in the fact that in reality you'll have a significant fraction of that 17,000 that will say "I shouldn't have to pay for something that adds something that was missing in the original game."

This is worse than a shoestring budget, it's a sewing thread budget, and I doubt it's going to go anywhere.

Oh, and in re: talking all about eFalcon to the print media: I doubt that'll make simmers look too good in general, hmm? "Fans create great flight sim - using stolen source code as a base."

#555429 - 02/05/01 06:59 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hiya Erich.

Yes, you could say that fans create eFalcon using stolen source code, but no one officially claims that eFalcon is based on the source code. And the second thing is the impetus for the hacking effort came from the iBeta mods...which did not use the sourcecode.

Indeed, if any PC Gamer writer took the time, he would have a fascinating article to write about the strange evolution to the current sim I have on my hard drive. And I seriously doubt that the magazine reading public will be quite so judgemental.

The fact remains that eFalcon plays pretty much as F4 should have played, out of the box... 2 years after F4.0 came out.

Where did you get the figure of 17,000 from? EF2000 sold waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than that. F-15 sold waaaaaaaaaay more than that. As did F4. It sold in the region of 125K copies.

If the gods are just, Typhoon should sell lots.

Gavin

#555430 - 02/06/01 03:23 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I got the 17,000 figure from Troffmeister's statements that that many people had downloaded the eRazor patch and his "think if all those people paid a few dollars to Hasbro when they got it" statement.

I realized after my post that I left out the overhead costs for programmers (health benefits, taxes, etc.), which makes it unlikely that that amount of money would pay for any more than one programmer for a year.

#555431 - 02/06/01 04:21 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Typhoon will sell good when it ports over to the ps2. lol..

I hate consoles.

#555432 - 02/06/01 08:47 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's 17k people downloading a patch which is not supported by the original publisher, and is known about only by the flight sim community itself.

125k copies of F4 were sold. If there was proper marketing of the existence of the eFalcon patch, then a significant number of those 125 thousand Falcon 4 owners would download the patch. And if they were willing to pay a small amount for that patch, then the revenue would be somewhat higher.

Gavin

#555433 - 02/06/01 09:26 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi guys,

First of all Andy is correct in what he says...

He's is my take on the matter......

Typhoon is designed to be a sim which you play NOT a flight sim constuction kit. I could understand people wanting to mod Typhoon after they have finished it, but not before they've even see it!

I'm not going to get bogged down in the arguments about sim editing or your perceptions (which are mostly wrong) about Rage's product and maketing strategy. The main point is that you will have to judge Typhoon for what it is (and I have been very honest with you about that) not for what you want it to be. If it doesn't meet your requirments as a product or you don't consider it value for money then that is unfortunate - but you can't blame Rage for not making you your own personal sim.

-------------

Anyway, on to the TAW code base. The code won't be released. F4 is out there somewhere, so if you really want to have a pop at some sim dev, then I'd start there.

Cheers,

Steve

#555434 - 02/06/01 01:22 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve,

Does the same apply to the EF2000 codebase?

Mike.

#555435 - 02/06/01 09:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 116
tango29er Offline
Member
tango29er  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 116
Australia
Thanks Andy,

I'll be upgrading soon after release of Typhoon so no prob whith what I hope to get.

Steve or Andy , any chance of pic at high res
in 32bit? We've seen so few from this sim.
The one's I have seen though with the external's showing the cockpit,hmmm real almost. If you can some one's with terrain
and combat.
Many thanks.
Paul.

#555436 - 02/06/01 09:55 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Having read all of the above posts , taken in and disgested the info , i have only one final question before departing this thread -

To Steve Hunt direction question please ,
assuming later in the year once Typhoon is out and a few players will have finished beating the war engine , if an approach is made to you guys at Rage by a web based modding group , wanting to add new items / features or terrain areas into the Typhoon game engine , what will be the attitude to such a request please ?

Will you stamp on such an idea , or will you guys be flattered and offer info / help or maybe some helpful modding tools to facilitate such an effort ?

This has been my point all along , i think alot of us want Typhoon to be great out of the box , and also we would like the product to have a long life via free WWW moding if possible in the future !

If you can answer this point for me , i will be more than happy to let this subject rest , and leave this forum , until such time as the product is actual released to us all to buy and fly .

Thankyou

Troff

#555437 - 02/07/01 12:54 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Gel214th Offline
Junior Member
Gel214th  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
I think the final thing is this:
If Typhoon sells well, and has a strong following..then Rage will produce Add-On campaigns for it which they will sell.

And if this is their strategy, then it would be undermined by providing a tool allowing you to create campaigns of the same style and quality, no?

As for AGE etc. I believe GTT was making money by SELLING the editor..they weren't providing it for free like most "enthusiasts" do..they were attempting to make a profit off it, possibly violating several copyrights/the EULA in the process.

That said..I still believe it would increase the life of the sim, or at least be useful from the perspective of an Internet Squadron, to allow single/multiplayer missions to be created.




------------------
-Gel214th
CO 214th Annihilators

http://www.214th.com/flanker2


-Gel214th
#555438 - 02/07/01 06:38 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


No.

That wasn't the problem with AGE. The problem with AGE is that it conflicted with the release of the Red Sea Missions mission set, which although the missions were of a decent quality, and the pack was worth buying, I think DID were worried that AGE would steal sales away from Red Sea Missions - or so the assumption went.

GTT didn't get involved until much later.

Gavin

#555439 - 02/10/01 01:09 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Put some of the above comments on the box as sort of reviewer quotes and watch the game fly from the shelves!

I know that guns were rushed back in when everyone realised what a turkey the AIM-7 was but hasn't the slammer and new sidewinders more than made up for it?

Save the weight for more AIM-120s!

#555440 - 02/10/01 06:09 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am still waiting patiently for an answer to my previous question , i will continue to wait further for a statement before drawing any conclusions !

Troff

#555441 - 02/11/01 12:49 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I put my foot into this debate with some trepidation (for obvious reasons...) Maybe I am rehashing old ground aswell.
IMHO there are two issues
1. will I buy it?
2. Will I enjoy it/will it stay on the HD?
To most simmers the answer to 1 will of course be yes,for no other reason than its a flight sim (How many copies of underplayed games are there on your shelf? Lots I suspect...)
2. Is amore complex issue,but i suspect that the "mid-core" realism approach will be a turn off for most of the existing sim community
There`s no call for an "unrealism" patch for F4 nor will Flanker 2.5 by simplifying the FM etcetc...
Putting gameplay over realistic avionics,real world force levels etcetc will only pay off if they are able to attract a significant number of "non-simmers" to purchase the game,which they obviously feel they can.
Fair play to them,Software publishers exist to make money and the current state of the Hardcore Sim Market (particularly complex Jet Simms indicates how difficult that currently is.
However by targeting that segment of the market they are assuming that a significant portion of existing simmers-that`s us by the way :-) will purchase it anyway regardless,which to me smacks a little of arrogance...
Sales figures will show in the long run whether it was a succesful approach,but in terms of poularity you only haveto look at the number of posts on the forum for different sims:- Wheres USAF of FA compared to Flanker/F4/JF18?
Being english,when I first heard about Typhoon i was excited,hoping for an RAF plane in an F4 type package mixed with the hi-tech weaponry of JF18 & more...
The truth is dissapointing,will I buy? Yes even if only to read the manual,will it become a "legend" like F4 I doubt it but then only one of thos puts bread on the table for the developers....
Ho-hum

#555442 - 02/11/01 01:08 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I'm a real F4 freak
I love the way it can be improved by the mod-makers
and I love the level of realism
and I myself am a bit envolved in terrainmaking for F4.

Nevertheless i will take Typhoon for what it is and I'll buy it as soon as it hits the shelves.
I trust DID to make good game
and I was totally hooked on EF2000 and ADF/TAW till Falcon4 came around
I still play those two titles ones in a while
for there good quality gameplay

I know Typhoon will not be an EF2000 succesor
in the real sense of the world
Yet considering the guys who made it (DID/Rage) I am 100% confident that it will be a good (if not the best) adition on my HD besides Falcon4

And for all I know from DID quality games, they dont need additions.........
although I would welcome any if released.

(I only have one wish...don't forget to put they DID label on the box......LOL)

Widowmaker aka Metalhead

[This message has been edited by Metalhead (edited February 11, 2001).]

#555443 - 02/11/01 04:32 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Uroboros Offline
Member
Uroboros  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 604
Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by 186 Airbag:
I put my foot into this debate with some trepidation (for obvious reasons...) Maybe I am rehashing old ground aswell.
IMHO there are two issues
1. will I buy it?
2. Will I enjoy it/will it stay on the HD?
To most simmers the answer to 1 will of course be yes,for no other reason than its a flight sim (How many copies of underplayed games are there on your shelf? Lots I suspect...)
2. Is amore complex issue,but i suspect that the "mid-core" realism approach will be a turn off for most of the existing sim community
There`s no call for an "unrealism" patch for F4 nor will Flanker 2.5 by simplifying the FM etcetc...
Putting gameplay over realistic avionics,real world force levels etcetc will only pay off if they are able to attract a significant number of "non-simmers" to purchase the game,which they obviously feel they can.
Fair play to them,Software publishers exist to make money and the current state of the Hardcore Sim Market (particularly complex Jet Simms indicates how difficult that currently is.
However by targeting that segment of the market they are assuming that a significant portion of existing simmers-that`s us by the way :-) will purchase it anyway regardless,which to me smacks a little of arrogance...
Sales figures will show in the long run whether it was a succesful approach,but in terms of poularity you only haveto look at the number of posts on the forum for different sims:- Wheres USAF of FA compared to Flanker/F4/JF18?
Being english,when I first heard about Typhoon i was excited,hoping for an RAF plane in an F4 type package mixed with the hi-tech weaponry of JF18 & more...
The truth is dissapointing,will I buy? Yes even if only to read the manual,will it become a "legend" like F4 I doubt it but then only one of thos puts bread on the table for the developers....
Ho-hum


In the end the game will be judged on it's OWN merits. Will exsisting simmers buy it? Of course they will..if it's a good game. I don't think it's arrogrant of DID/Rage to believe that. So far the opinion of those who have it has been positive. Personally I think it can be a good game and a good sim WITHOUT being Falcon4, JF18, or Flanker2.0.

BTW..has Falcon 4 really obtained legend status? When did this happen? I must have missed the memo



[This message has been edited by Uroboros (edited February 11, 2001).]

#555444 - 02/12/01 09:46 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Troff,

Your questions have already been answered in one of my previous posts.
Further development of Typhoon will depend on sales (which is only sensible)... it's far to early at this point to decide what we will do. (We got plenty of ideas though)

Simple....

Cheers,

Steve

#555445 - 02/12/01 03:02 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Question, will I buy. Well like every thing in life, depends. If I could, I would purchase most all of the flights sims available, but my financial resources don't allow such. I have a priority list that is revised from time to time. I like the old prop sims. So, right now the top of the list is IL-Stormvick. I would guess this on on your list also!
Second is x-plane because I'm a avionics mechanic for an major airline, it's entertaining and educational (note the training department uses a more expensive version of this software at work, very real-life). Plus I like playing with all the bells and whistles
As far as typhoon is concerned it's 4 or maybe 5 on my list because of the above reasons.

But, IF YOU ARE NEW to flight sim, or are not into learning somewhat about real aircraft avionics/systems (high learning curve), as long as this products ships clean (few bugs) then I believe Typhoon will be a good entertainment purchase.

And Steve,
if it's passable, through in the Source Code of EF2000, or a recompiled version of EF2000 Graphics + that will run on a VooDoo5 and I'll definitely move Tyhoon up to no.2 spot (bribe ) on my list.
Sorry, about no.2 spot, I'm a WWII prop fan . As far as X-Plane, it could wait.
Have a good day and hope to see some good reviews on your work!

#555446 - 02/12/01 07:42 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Junglegeorge:
Question, will I buy. Well like every As

But, IF YOU ARE NEW to flight sim, or are not into learning somewhat about real aircraft avionics/systems (high learning curve), as long as this products ships clean (few bugs) then I believe Typhoon will be a good entertainment purchase.

[b]And Steve,

if it's passable, through in the Source Code of EF2000, or a recompiled version of EF2000 Graphics + that will run on a VooDoo5 and I'll definitely move Tyhoon up to no.2 spot (bribe ) on my list.
B]


a. Well DID considering there wont be many bugs and I'll be the first to buy it and to warn other people if it is on all forum
and for more I'm really into realism, hence Falcon4 is my top Sim.
Yet I just want too say Typhoon is number one on my wishlist because I have high anticipation for it's flightmodel and feel.
not for the MFD's and so on.

b. I myself would really welcome an upgraded
Ef2000
Idea make terrain smooth as with 3dfx
for direct 3d
incorparate the new flightmodel and releas it again (or better on the Typhoon disc)
STEVE HUNT really consider this......

Yet we are talking typhoon here.......
and I wish you good luck

#555447 - 02/12/01 09:00 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


I must say that I'm looking foreward to Typhoon, but I do have some reservations:

1) The campaign dynamic- one thing that really annoyed be about TAW was that my side was absolutely piss poor without my constant intervention. The best feling from Falcon 4 is that you are a small but significant part of a larger war machine, rather than some superhero pilot. I hope that Rage have not overly emphasised the role of the player in what would after all be a large and extremely complex military campaign.

0) A release date. Wy have we herd absolutely nothing with respect to adverts, a web site etc? This does not bode well.

1) The focus on the "pilot experience". If I have to spend time instructing my squadron members when to eat, sleep, take a pee etc. I shall not be at all amused.

2) The weapons were not exactly top notch realistic in TAW. Can we please have HARM with a proper range, instead of 15nm?

3) Hopefully there will be variation of weapons effective range with altitude.

4) The lack of AWACS worries me slightly. What am I supposeed to do- fly slowly towards the enemy S-300 site at 30K feet lit up like an Christmas tree (electronically of course).

5) I feel that the way MFDs were done in TAW was perfect. Why do we need these sticky popup MFD things? If it works, fixing it mainly leads to more problems.

6) The Euofighter is an European aircraft, so this time can we not have USAF roundels on them?

Anyway, thre's my $0.02 worth. Hopefully Typhoon will be sufficiently realistic to be interesting, but will be fun to play as well. If it manages to blend the right aspects of F2, F4 and JFA-18 then it will surely be a wnner and will revitalise the jet sim market!

Cheers, Wulf.

[This message has been edited by Wulfrick (edited February 12, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Wulfrick (edited February 12, 2001).]

#555448 - 02/13/01 08:31 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


That always annoyed me too. Why did EF2000 V 2.0 have US insignia on the plane? That was just stupid. V 1.0 had British insignia; why change it? I still have V 2.0 on my hard drive, so if anyone knows of a hack to fix the emblems, I'd still love to hear it. That was my only gripe with EF2000 (well, that and the fact that it won't run accelerated on my Voodoo 3).

#555449 - 02/13/01 08:55 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
RAF roundels...no USAF insignia.

Andy

#555450 - 02/13/01 11:31 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hiya.

I think the reason the V2 version had US roundels went as follows. The Germany EF2000 release had Iron Crosses on it. The French release, had, for some reason, French roundels. So, it followed that V2, the US release, should have US roundels.

No snickering in the cheap seats.

Of course i have seen complaints on this board at the poor American market having to settle for a "British" version of the game...
Gavin

#555451 - 02/14/01 08:03 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well that was still just plain stupid.

#555452 - 02/15/01 07:33 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
NipponDSM Offline
Member
NipponDSM  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 340
VA
Well, I hadn't noticed until it was mentioned here. I bought the game when it first came out (v 2.0). It's currently on the hard drive and I've played it as recently as 3 days ago.

I don't see how this can hurt someone's game. It certainly didn't affect my gameplay once I found out.

Seems more of a nitpick!



------------------
Ron aka NipponDSM http://members.tripod.com/~WIGGLIT/EECH.html


Currently playing:
  • Arma 2 & 3
  • IL2 Sturmovik (BoK, BoB, & BoS)

Videos/Broadcasts
#555453 - 02/15/01 08:41 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Maaaan, it drove me insane. No kidding, it irritated so much. It was just...WRONG!
I'm a geek, yeah i know.

Gavin

#555454 - 02/15/01 03:07 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
Andy Bush Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator
Andy Bush  Offline
Site Emeritus
Air Combat Forum Moderator

Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Gavin

Put away your pills and straight-jacket!! Typhoon's Eurofighter is RAF.

Andy

#555455 - 02/15/01 09:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


;-)

Still, it was such an irritant that I went back to the original Tactcom. I still play SEF2k, a lot.

Love it.

Love them proper RAF roundels too.

Gavin

#555456 - 02/15/01 09:59 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
tony draper Offline
Hotshot
tony draper  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,105
newcastle/united kingdom
Well when the war in Iceland is half over perhaps we will see aircraft with American insignia come in to the conflict, he he he.


oh boy!your in trouble now draper.

[This message has been edited by tony draper (edited February 15, 2001).]

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
It's Friday: grown up humor for the weekend.
by NoFlyBoy. 04/12/24 01:41 PM
OJ Simpson Dead at 76
by bones. 04/11/24 03:02 PM
They wokefied tomb raider !!
by Blade_RJ. 04/10/24 03:09 PM
Good F-35 Podcast
by RossUK. 04/08/24 09:02 AM
Gleda Estes
by Tarnsman. 04/06/24 06:22 PM
Food Safety and Bad Roommates
by KRT_Bong. 04/04/24 02:16 AM
Incredible historical ironies
by PanzerMeyer. 04/03/24 01:56 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0