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#555382 - 01/31/01 12:46 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Boy, Steve dropping by, this is cool.
My personal sim history:
1. DID's EF2000 V2.0
2. F-22 adf,TAW, F-15
3. Falcon 4 and F/A-18
You never forget your roots, how you got started, where you came from.
I'm buying anything Steve makes

The dynamic ground campaign has alot of
appeal for us air-to-mud drivers. I guess my question would be, do you envision additional theaters for the Typhoon down the road?


[This message has been edited by brewsky (edited January 30, 2001).]

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#555383 - 01/31/01 06:17 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Well guys, after an evening playing Super EF2000 and dragging my sorry, shot up a$$ back to home plate on six occassions this evening, I have to say: Typhoon has a hard act to follow.

Mr. Hunt. Thanks for your presence here, and please, please, if Typhoon does well, please consider making an add-on, bringing us back to the Scandinavian theatre.

I am literally shaking from the tension of those Super EF2000 missions. Nothing in my sim library really comes close to that visceral nastiness of the SEK2k campaign.

Gavin

#555384 - 02/01/01 10:01 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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ctbridge,

There will be a keyboard layout (not one that goes over it though).

Gel214th,

There is no support at the moment for custom missions.. we may add this as a patch later though...

why not? - cos there's only so much 4 programmers can do with two hands!

Tony,

The cigar lighter is there - and it's voice activated....

Brewsky,

Thanks...

There are no plans at this time to create different theatres for Typhoon - I suppose it depends on how well Typhoon sells.

Gavin,

That's probably the case - if Typhoon does well there maybe some extra goodies done...

Cheers,

Steve

#555385 - 02/01/01 05:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hunt:
ctbridge,

Gel214th,

There is no support at the moment for custom missions.. we may add this as a patch later though...

why not? - cos there's only so much 4 programmers can do with two hands!


Whyyyyyyy whyyyyyyy..
Ooooh the HORROR!!
*palpitates*
The hoooorrrooooorrrrr...
-----------------

Well..think about it..maybe if there would be an editor included..it would sell even better!
*solemn,pithy look*
Not including a mission editor..and then having Typhoon not do too well..might be a self fulfilling prophecy.
*clasps hands*
*nods slowly*
So says Dai Lama-Gel.



-Gel
http://www.carigamer.com


[This message has been edited by Gel214th (edited February 01, 2001).]


-Gel214th
#555386 - 02/02/01 12:40 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Oh jesus guys , if you don't allow mission editing creation , and new theatres , then this sim will suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth !!!! :-0

Sorry to say this guys but,when will you developers ever learn ????

TAW is a pretty dead sim because of lack of modding , what keps it alive for me is the AGE214 - enthusiast / net made mission editor , which DID wanted to ban etc !

Sorry to say this but in todays day and age to say , maybe these features only if it sells well truely doth suck !!

If you don't include these features , then at least please put on the game cd , some development tools to allow the net community to either make their own external mission builder , and or terrain tiling tools etc !

I am not saying this to be nasty or bitchy to you all , as i really want Typhoon to play now , and to do well, sales wise, but please please please wake up and smell the coffee , and give this much anticipated title a real chance of game play longevity , by either including or supporting these much wanted features !!!!!

Troff :-0

Troffmeister's Simulation Zone
http://www.daviesr.freeserve.co.uk

Roger " Troffmeister " Davies
Roger@Daviesr.freeserve.co.uk
Icq 58124596

#555387 - 02/02/01 02:08 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Oct 1999
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Prefer my cigar lighter to be operated by foot pedal, only americans possess mouths big enough to talk around large cigar, so voice operated cigar lighter a problem for us limeys.and though i am reluctant to point this out this is a sim based on a limey fighter. he he he...tony d

#555388 - 02/02/01 02:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
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oops doubler, sorry hit post once ,then again with large cigar,
seriously, i am longing for this sim, all these ww2 people with big mustaches and leather helmets have been spoiled this last year, its our time now.

[This message has been edited by tony draper (edited February 01, 2001).]

#555389 - 02/02/01 09:11 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Troff- Have anyone told you that if you don't like something you don't have to buy it? In any case that is how it works.

Tony D- I'd go with the foot switch, makes much more sense. Wonder how the ashtray will work.

#555390 - 02/02/01 11:36 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
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Take a look at the collection of dead flight sims in the bargain bin and you'll soon realise that its not a lack of mission editors that causes poor sales. It is lack of appeal and accessability to the majority. I don't think we need to preach to former DiD staff how to make a great flight sim. If they throw in a mission editor at a later date it will be an act of charity to a small minority and one which if anything hinders rather than helps sales by constantly spouting about the failings of flight sims which don't meet their exacting demands.

A mission editor would certainly give the game a longer life on the hard drive, so maybe we should just try saying please! What will also go a long way to prolonging the life of the game would be for Rage to release the occasional new "surprise" which would twist the campaign in a new direction. I would be very surprised if this is not already in the pipeline.

#555391 - 02/02/01 12:05 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
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Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally posted by GrahamD:
...
I don't think we need to preach to former DiD staff how to make a great flight sim.
...


I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.

After all, DiD hasn't exactly a "proven track record" in terms of sales since the good old EF-2000.
Can you say F-22 ADF, F-22 TAW and Wargasm?

If you look at existing flight sims, "open" sims like Falcon-4, Flanker 2.0, EECH/AH where the development team has provided information about how to modify and improve the game are still alive and followed by a number of people. People means interests, money and possibility to buy a support another product.

On the opposite side, just think to F-22 TAW whose data have been encrypted (the same dataset were not encrypted in F-22 ADF) to prevent people to do something even remotely useful.

In the case of F-22 TAW, you may wonder if there is any web site, newsgroup, mailing list of else that follows that simulator...

Only sales result will tell if Typhoon is a "great sim" or not.
Personally I will wait for the demo, try it and then decide: IMHO it is a step backward compared to EF-2000, but perhaps I am wrong.

Cheers,
Shodan

#555392 - 02/02/01 12:26 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
Oh jesus guys , if you don't allow mission editing creation , and new theatres , then this sim will suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth !!!! :-0

Sorry to say this guys but,when will you developers ever learn ????

TAW is a pretty dead sim because of lack of modding , what keps it alive for me is the AGE214 - enthusiast / net made mission editor , which DID wanted to ban etc !

Sorry to say this but in todays day and age to say , maybe these features only if it sells well truely doth suck !!

If you don't include these features , then at least please put on the game cd , some development tools to allow the net community to either make their own external mission builder , and or terrain tiling tools etc !



I don't agree that if a sim lacks mission creation or is not open to modding that it is necessarily going to "suck worse than a florida old age pensioner with false teeth".

If a sim is not lacking in features and stands up well on it's own; then those things you mention are just icing on the cake. The lack of these things don't break a good sim..but they do prop up a mediocre one. I think Typhoon will probably stand up well on it's own as it's not lacking much. The inclusion of the deep campaign balances out the lack of a mission editor IMHO On the other hand if Typhoon consisted of only 20 or so canned missions; a mission editor would become more important.

Of course that's not to say I wouldn't like to see some of the possible additions to Typhoon that Steve has hinted at here and on the EF-2000 list. If the sim is good and successful; we'll hopefully see those enhancements.

And BTW..TAW is not a dead sim in the least at my house. I still have a long way to finally complete those 10 campaigns that came with the game

#555393 - 02/02/01 02:57 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Shodan:
I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.


If you pay for the delevopement of the title yes, other than that absolute no. Why? You are not a customer yeat. And if you don't like the finished product you don't have to buy it. At the end of the day though Rage has to pay for it.

Sure you can send in "I wish this sim would..." lists to various developers and they may even ask your opinion on what you would like to see in a specific product. But that doesn't warrant you to flame the product or the developer if they choose to dissregar your suggestions.

[This message has been edited by jema - SimHQ (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555394 - 02/02/01 03:17 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally posted by Shodan:
I humbly think that as paying customers we have at least the right to ask for certain features and complain if those features are missing.

Cheers,
Shodan



Think of it like a car.....if you are after safety features for eg (in Typhoon terms-open architechture)if one vehicle has Airbags/ABS etc and it's not available as an option on another. Then you will naturaly buy the vehicle *with* safety features.
Because that's the features you want?

If on the other hand you are not bothered by those features then you are free to pick either....(which would be the person buying Typhoon as a game not bothered about the option of open architechture)which is exactly what implies here.
No one if forcing you to buy Typhoon or any other game,it's your choice

What is poison to one customer is food for the other.
Sadly games will *never* satisfy everyone's whims.

Tracer



------------------
"Flying is the second hardest thing known to man.........the first is landing!"

#555395 - 02/02/01 06:14 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Steve Hunt
Any news on the questions of source code and development ideals for EF2000 and TAW posted on January 18?
gwarren1@airmail.net
http://www.fightersim.com
REF:
Quote:
Originally posted by Junglegeorge:
Steve Hunt,
On the question of source code for EF2000 and TAW.
1. Would it be possible to release the code publicly, or even for compensation, if there is a license agreement that stated any modifications and improvements would belong to Rage, and could be used by rage in a future release of a EF2000/TAW product.

2.Even though TAW is a long and complex code, you are probably underestimating the resources of the serious flight sim community. Case in point, Falcon4. If Microprose had such an agreement Falcon5 would be on the store shelf with next to nothing development cost by now.

3. Rage could set up a server/website to store and catalog all mods such as artwork, Realism Patches, etc... This would help rage monitor and even help to administer/support the development efforts.

4. Would the flight sim community care if Rage makes a profit from the work. I personally would not, nor do I think the vast majority would. Face it, Rage produces sims for a profit. We are not licensed to be altering sims any way. As it is, because of the cost to have a paid staff develop TAW V2.0, or the matter Falcon5, its not likely to happen, but under such an agreement it would be very likely that there would be a TAW V2.0 that would reset the military flight sim standards.


[This message has been edited by Junglegeorge (edited February 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Junglegeorge (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555396 - 02/02/01 07:58 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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It's a difficult balance for Steve. On the one hand, the hardcore simmers want to re-live the glory days of DID's EF-2000, on the other is a need for a commercial product that appeals to the masses. BTW, my brother loves TAW, which i left on my old computer, and F4 is to complex for him.
I think Gavin and Shodan made some good points. I would lean towards mid- core/hardcore. If you provide the only high fidelity Typhoon sim on the planet, you'll have 100% market share. Steel beasts is a good example of the current trend,it's hardcore, mid-core graphics, and has 100% market share. They are the only game in town if you want a hardcore tank sim. Sales might only be 50,000, and not 5 million, but you'll make some money. I'm sure Steve will make Typhoon the best sim he possibily can, because there probably is noone out there who know's that aircraft better than him, and can program too

[This message has been edited by brewsky (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555397 - 02/02/01 09:16 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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just wanted to say that the mission campaign mode in TAW didn't fill 10% of what i got from the mission editors of games like Fighters Anthology. Too general, too broad.

of course, custom missions by players is annoying to get, download, extract, and then play. if only we had a much easier way.

#555398 - 02/02/01 11:09 PM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Sorry to say this , it may sound harsh but this thread / discussion is not titled lets all kiss the arse of the developers of the sim we all want to fly !

I don't understand Jema's points at all , if you are trying to be devils advocate or what !

Of course , as customers we all have the right to choose our purchases of sims , and based on the games industry news which has been broadcast on uk national tv news today things are not looking good at all in the industry , but i will come to that in a minute !

Firstly without regurgitating my previous post , which was not a flame or disrespectful - i merely called it as i saw and how i feel , i stated that and suggested constructive alternative suggestions , eg dev tools , net community to mod etc !!

Frankly if DID had helped the net community sims like wargasm , f22adf , taw etc - would still be flourishing in my view with new levels , features etc - personally that is what i like about sims and the www - the ability that sims get modded by clever talented people , and we all get to download stuff , and keep playing great games .

Please note i think all DID games were / are great !
Please also note i am not a hardcore flight model simmer , see my thread on the flight simulation section of this board , so this has no bearing on my views .

Please note i was one of the very few that voiced my interest in , and would like to see further add ons and life granted to TAW , so i am no enemy of RAGE or TYPHOON , or the coder guys working away hard there !

I have merely stated my heart felt democratic opinion , on what i see as a very poorly made decision to omit these features at release as so far stated - if this means i am not falling into line with the brown tongue brigade then tough !

Today news was released on national tv here in uk that codemasters had laid off a load of staff , also a high street games chain was closing all its branches - gameplay , and that its shares were worth only 10% of their value from that of 1 year ago - this games chain is also part owned and backed by Rupert Murdock / Sky Tv too i believe , so this is not good news , games sales are low too coz peps are awaiting new super consoles - i spose x box !!

Rage have recently axed some games - 5 i believe , i don't see what is wrong in us / me as customers in questioning Rage's plans for the future of Typhoon - personally i would push for all features up front , as i don't trust the bean counters and suits at rage to pull the financial plug out from under Typhoon add ons or patches , once the game hits the shops - does this sound familiar people !!

To be frank , you can't trust the suits they are financial peeps not game play simming enthusiasts , so their promises cannot be banked , i feel !

I think that before all us simmers go to purchase Typhoon , once its ready - it would be nice to have a public declaration from Rage / the development team stating their intentions re commercial add ons , or support for modding / open architecture ,

Then going back to Jema's points / declarations , we can all make our purchasing decisions in a fully briefed environment - i.e is this sim a one off open and shut product or does it have a guaranteed future / life - even if this just means support to a www based modding community ??

So thats my challenge , can the team level with us and give us this info / reassurances please ??

Troff :-0

#555399 - 02/03/01 12:32 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
I don't understand Jema's points at all
Somehow that doesn't surprise me at all.

if you are trying to be devils advocate or what !
Hell is no longer a client of mine since they on several occations neglected to meet their bill. When confronted with the question of how to address the issue their representative was commonly heard to, and I quote, say "Too hell with it!".

Then going back to Jema's points / declarations , we can all make our purchasing decisions in a fully briefed environment - i.e is this sim a one off open and shut product or does it have a guaranteed future / life - even if this just means support to a www based modding community ??
How more fully briefed can you get than "Not supported"? An open structure does not guarantee the developer anything.

I have merely stated my heart felt democratic opinion
And now for the $10 000 question, "What have jema done?"

- if this means i am not falling into line with the brown tongue brigade then tough !
I do see you falling in line with a bridage, but it is far more than their tounges that are brown...


Brewsky- 100% of a very small market share doesn't bring in all that much money. I'm sure the "Steel beasts" team can verify this.

[This message has been edited by jema - SimHQ (edited February 02, 2001).]

#555400 - 02/03/01 01:09 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Jema , to me your retorts are coming across as you being some kind of a wooden spoon wielding wind up merchant !

Sorry but i cannot hold a rational conversation with some one of your mind set , so i will not bother further !

I have made my points clear , if Rage care to clarify thats up to them , if this product turns out to be no more than a Pc version of
Playstations - Namco's Ace Combat 69 - then i will decline to purchase - enough said !

Troff

#555401 - 02/03/01 03:38 AM Re: Hello from Rage.....  

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Hi all.

Two points.

One: Source code? Ef2000 and TAW? Aww man... talk about mana from heaven! That would be a GOOD Thing. A very good thing.

Secondly:

TAW and SEF2k are still valid, playable sims. You can have as much fun (what is this crap? You don't play sims for fun, you play sims to get the bejaysus scared out of you) with SEF2k and TAW. TAW would have been improved by a lack of enemy aircraft spawning. SEF2k would have been greatly improved by a ground war. Both would have been improved by inter-operability. (Typhoons and F-22s in the same war? wow)

Thirdly:

I think Typhoon is on the right track. It will probably rock. However, do not, Rage, I urge you, let Typhoon die.

I had an idea a few months back that i posted on the message boards on Combatsim, way back when. The gist of it was:

Three theatres:
Iceland, GIUK and Scandinavia. Iceland is as it will be in Typhoon. The Giuk scenario would be a TAW style, AWACS driven air war. You, as RAF commander, uses your Typhoons and Tornadoes to ward off Bear attacks, and probes by enemy fighters. And thirdly, pretty much the same deal as the old EF2000, with a ground war.

As the game develops, perhaps things that people have complained about like MFDs and cockpits could be changed.

Gavin

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