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#4638276 - 11/10/23 07:02 PM Another sign that I’m getting old.  
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When I first started flying we didn’t have GPS aids. Then the first GPS nav aid, which was an orange line with small breaks and twin vertical lines that showed if you were left or right of your straight line course, came out. Then the first Garmin 430 with moving map, course line, airfields, airspace, etc came out. Now here I am 16 years later and finding out that Garmin considers the 430 and 530 old tech and is going to stop servicing them. Mine needed a refurbishment so I sent it off since they will no longer ensure that they will have the parts to refurbish or repair them after Jan 1. Mine lasted for 16 years and so this refurbishment should last until I give up flying. The alternative is to spend $16,000 on a newer system. Then there would be the time and cost of integrating it into my systems and autopilot.

Makes you feel old when you are beyond the life of equipment.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4638277 - 11/10/23 07:08 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I imagine you used LORAN or TACAN prior?

Edit: No, TACAN is military so I guess I mean VOR/DME which is civilian right?

Yeah, anyone who used these is old. Guilty myself.

At least I never used Oboe biggrin

Not that old.

Last edited by DBond; 11/10/23 09:19 PM.

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#4638279 - 11/10/23 07:57 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Back during my brief mid 1980's flying the only nav aide I can recall is VOR's. Are those still active / used?


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4638281 - 11/10/23 09:38 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Back during my brief mid 1980's flying the only nav aide I can recall is VOR's. Are those still active / used?


There are fewer of them, but yes.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638282 - 11/10/23 09:47 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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VOR`s are still active.
Some NDB`s as well.

If GPS or Glonass or other satelite systems are switched off there will be chaos.
Russia is jamming satelite nav in Northern Norway from time to time .
The owners of the systems will shut them down if they deem it necessary.
So there must be some sort of back-up.

VOR info is feeded in the boxes and may be used to make fixes using trigometry.
Been a while since my last flight now so I am not updated on the latest.

I remember we started to use GPS after the war in Iraq in 1991.
On that time we used Trimble. Probably what oldgrognard is reffering to.

The first time I saw a GPS was when our owner had a Trimble box with a connected battery and antenna and we were running over the tarmac looking at the speed and track it indicated in awe.
People that watched us must have fallen apart in laughter. biggrin

Before GPS we used VOR/DME/NDB.
We also had VLF/Omega , but they often lost signal and were pretty unreliable.
Most of the intercontinental trafic used VLF/Omega. In those times separation requirements was very different than today.

Edit: I forgot Doppler.


Last edited by Wigean; 11/10/23 10:16 PM.

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#4638283 - 11/10/23 10:22 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean
VOR`s are still active.
Some NDB`s as well.

If GPS or Glonass or other satelite systems are switched off there will be chaos.
Russia is jamming satelite nav in Northern Norway from time to time .
The owners of the systems will shut them down if they deem it necessary.
So there must be some sort of back-up.

VOR info is feeded in the boxes and may be used to make fixes using trigometry.
Been a while since my last flight now so I am not updated on the latest.

I remember we started to use GPS after the war in Iraq in 1991.
On that time we used Trimble. Probably what oldgrognard is reffering to.

The first time I saw a GPS was when our owner had a Trimble box with a connected battery and antenna and we were running over the tarmac looking at the speed and track it indicated in awe.
People that watched us must have fallen apart in laughter. biggrin

Before GPS we used VOR/DME/NDB.
We also had VLF/Omega , but they often lost signal and were pretty unreliable.
Most of the intercontinental trafic used VLF/Omega. In those times separation requirements was very different than today.

Edit: I forgot Doppler.



The FMS boxes still use VORs and DMEs for trigonometric position fixes, DME/DME being the most accurate.

Russia is happily jamming GPS signals in the north. Every time you fly to Kirkenes you lose the GPS, making RNAV approaches up there pretty useless.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638318 - 11/11/23 06:01 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I also felt old recently when I noticed that my local classic rock station was playing stuff from post-2000 bands like Blink 182 and Three Doors Down. "Classic Rock" for me is 60's and 70's!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4638319 - 11/11/23 06:52 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I also felt old recently when I noticed that my local classic rock station was playing stuff from post-2000 bands like Blink 182 and Three Doors Down. "Classic Rock" for me is 60's and 70's!


Yeah, the 70s are still 20-30 years ago, right? Right?!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638320 - 11/11/23 08:00 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I also felt old recently when I noticed that my local classic rock station was playing stuff from post-2000 bands like Blink 182 and Three Doors Down. "Classic Rock" for me is 60's and 70's!


Yeah, the 70s are still 20-30 years ago, right? Right?!


At most... wink


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4638324 - 11/11/23 11:25 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I imagine you used LORAN or TACAN prior?

Edit: No, TACAN is military so I guess I mean VOR/DME which is civilian right?

Yeah, anyone who used these is old. Guilty myself.

At least I never used Oboe biggrin

Not that old.



Flew VOR and DME.

Few years ago there was talk about doing away with about 60% of the VORs and not fixing DME as they failed. Seems they have reconsidered about the VOR, but DME is being allowed to phase-out as it fails. I have two VOR in my plane. Had DME but it went bad about 6 years ago and I pulled it and didn’t replace it. Just didn’t make sense since I used it so seldom plus the issue of letting DME phase-out.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4638411 - 11/14/23 03:17 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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OG,

Really random post as I don't fly. What do you think of flight simulator's right now? I assume you use them, maybe not. Do you use them to practice flights? It may have been covered before but I would like to hear your current thoughts. I am loving Flight Sim 2020 right now. Ignore if boring, just a random thought came into my head about it and you seemed the right person to ask.

#4638515 - 11/16/23 05:46 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I also felt old recently when I noticed that my local classic rock station was playing stuff from post-2000 bands like Blink 182 and Three Doors Down. "Classic Rock" for me is 60's and 70's!


Definitely feeling old when 90's rock bands are now featured on Kool 108, Oldies for Everyone... seems to me they were playing Perry Como just last year...


Wally
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#4638525 - 11/17/23 02:15 AM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I used LORAN in sport fishing for some years. Strange system

First time I used a Furono GPS I was amazed, When I finally had a boat with a chart plotter integrated with GPS I thought I was the Captain of the Enterprise...the trek one.


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#4638578 - 11/19/23 01:55 AM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: RossUK]  
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Originally Posted by RossUK
OG,

Really random post as I don't fly. What do you think of flight simulator's right now? I assume you use them, maybe not. Do you use them to practice flights? It may have been covered before but I would like to hear your current thoughts. I am loving Flight Sim 2020 right now. Ignore if boring, just a random thought came into my head about it and you seemed the right person to ask.



It was a mixed bag for me. Flight sim helped understanding flight and how flight controls worked. Helped with being able to visualize navigation. But it worked against me about rudders when taxiing and coordinated turns. I had a twist stick rather than pedals. Screwed-up my ingrained responses when taxiing and flying an actual airplane. Flight simms do a poor job at simulating landing. Doesn’t have the right feel of the changing flight feelings for all the factors of changing flight dynamics as you adjust speed and angle of attack and adjusting for every little bit of wind change. And of course there isn’t the actual seat of the pants feelings. Flight sim gauges don’t have impression of being alive like real aircraft gauges.

So they help, but not as much as you might think.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4638760 - 11/23/23 12:29 AM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Got my refurbished Garmin 430W back from Garmin. What a nice job they did. Exterior looks brand new. Reinstalled it, but had problem that it did not pair with everything. So I figured that I should pull it and install again. Did this twice without solving all the glitches. One of the glitches was that I could receive but not transmit. Called the avionics shop on my iPhone and they said bring the plane up. Called the tower on my iPhone and got clearance to taxi with inability to transmit. Got it to the shop and avionics chief came to look at it. He tried all the hints I had tried. Then he pulled it and looked at all the connectors and pins. Everything looked good. He reinstalled and still had the glitches. So he went into its menus and made a couple changes and Ta-Da !, it all worked. So Friday I will take the plane up and verify everything is good. A big worry is if the auto-pilot will work and execute the GPS course and altitude input.

One thing that really impressed me was how perfect the screen was. Over the years it had become less bright and clear. Multiple cleanings had removed the coating on the screen. Since it slowly degraded over the years I hadn’t noticed how much it had changed. But now it is back to new and very good. The selector buttons were perfect now; no more pushing them more than once to get the selection.

So everyone send me positive vibes on Friday morning.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4638762 - 11/23/23 02:12 AM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
One thing that really impressed me was how perfect the screen was. Over the years it had become less bright and clear. Multiple cleanings had removed the coating on the screen. Since it slowly degraded over the years I hadn’t noticed how much it had changed. But now it is back to new and very good.


Are you certain that the screen wasn't actually replaced with new?

On the other hand there are many various, very interesting, technical restoration methods for all sorts of things that I have run across in various YouTube videos... there may be one that applies to such screens.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4638770 - 11/23/23 09:38 AM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I didn’t make it clear, but yes it was a new replacement screen.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4638776 - 11/23/23 12:45 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I didn’t make it clear, but yes it was a new replacement screen.



Ah. Makes perfect sense. Still I would not have been surprised if there were some technique for restoration of old to new again.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4638841 - 11/24/23 05:14 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Weather forecast wasn’t correct. No flight today. So going to try tomorrow. Send those positive waves.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4638843 - 11/24/23 06:29 PM Re: Another sign that I’m getting old. [Re: oldgrognard]  
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You'll be alright, have an enjoyable flight and everything works. I sacrificed a chicken to make it so wink

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