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#4638216 - 11/09/23 04:27 PM Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air  
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https://youtu.be/2RWohylGm3c?si=ktybsa_tL1rxEMJH

Is it just me, or does CGI make everything look too clean? Band of Brothers, The Pacific and Saving Private Ryan all looked very realistic and gritty, with their subdued colour palettes. This looks a bit too clean. That said, I did get goose bumps watching this, it’s been in the works for so long that it was nice to see something other than just a «coming soon.»


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
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#4638217 - 11/09/23 04:47 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I am a fan of clean looks in a war movie. The sky doesn't care if men are killing one another, it can be beautiful and sunny with puffy white clouds above brilliant green grass while carnage ensues. The dichotomy is striking. It's realistic. It's not done enough.

IMO


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#4638218 - 11/09/23 04:57 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I can agree on that. However, for me at least, CGI can be very very good, but if it is used too much it looks almost, but not quite, realistic. Case in point is The Hobbit movies vs LOTR. The former was like watching a video game, while the practical effects, costumes and subdued CGI in LOTR looked really good!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638220 - 11/09/23 05:14 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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As soon as I heard ''Lets rack em up and knock em down'' I lost the will to live...

#4638221 - 11/09/23 05:37 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I will keep an open mind and give it a shot but that trailer didn't give me the warm fuzzies.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4638222 - 11/09/23 06:02 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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This is exciting. It's like Christmas again in January (26th).

#4638236 - 11/09/23 11:46 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I was skeptical of Greyhound, but I really liked it.
The Pacific was better than its reviews, IMHO.
For Masters of the Air, I will be there.

#4638239 - 11/10/23 02:52 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I am often surprised at how CGI looks from film to film. Many films, including this one from what I saw in the trailer, look like video games. There's just something about the textures, colors, and reflectiveness that just doesn't look quite right.

The Star Wars prequels had that look, but Jurassic Park dinosaurs looked much more realistic, and it was released many years earlier. I'm sure there's a cost component, and the Star Wars prequels had a lot more CGI so I guess they couldn't spend as much time on every shot, but you'd think the technology would have improved over that time to give it a better look. The J. J. Abrams Star Trek movie came out only 4 years after the last Star Wars prequel, and it looked much better.

I thought Top Gun: Maverick's CGI looked great, and the movement was good because they basically rotoscoped the CGI planes over real planes, so the physics looked right. I am surprised that they can't get closer to that with this series.


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#4638241 - 11/10/23 04:19 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I assume it has to do with budget. Top Gun Maverick likely had the best in the world working on it, and the budget was likely a lot higher.

Maverick also used a lot more real planes but seldom had more than two or three on screen at once. It would be impossible to create the scenes in the trailers with real planes because there are so few of them left. I'm sure for a couple of fly bys they can get a few real planes but otherwise it all has to be CGI.

#4638243 - 11/10/23 05:32 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I'm sure it's budget, but you'd think they could get 5, or maybe even 10 shots of some relatively large airplane, doing a few different passes, and then superimpose the CGI B-17 on top of that and duplicate it, with slight variations, to show a large flight. And again, the texture that seems off too, and I'm guessing that probably has to do with render time.


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#4638246 - 11/10/23 08:19 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Tarnsman]  
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Originally Posted by Tarnsman
I was skeptical of Greyhound, but I really liked it.
The Pacific was better than its reviews, IMHO.
For Masters of the Air, I will be there.


IMO, The Pacific suffered from constantly being compared to BoB. If you read the books, Ambrose focused a lot on the bond between the men, so it is only natural that that was the core of the series. The two books by Sledge and Leckie that were the basis of The Pacific focused a lot on the gruelling nature of the warfare on the Pacific islands, the way the climate also was an enemy, and the horrific conditions they existed under. The Pacific is right up there with BoB, IMO. I really, really hope that Masters is of the same calibre.

As for CGI, look at the trailer of Masters compared to the takeoff scene from Memphis Belle. They gathered all five airworthy B-17s at the time, and combined them with large-scale RC models for the airfield scenes. The result was brilliant, one of the best movies of all time when it comes to flying scenes.

https://youtu.be/1gIDvaxBxZc?si=2S6QXJ9JVrLwsiQc


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638248 - 11/10/23 09:41 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Will definitely watch. Has a great pedigree (BoB + Pacific) and centres on my favourite aircraft, the B-17. Trailer is a little cheesy, but I hope that's not representative smile


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4638250 - 11/10/23 09:58 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
Will definitely watch. Has a great pedigree (BoB + Pacific) and centres on my favourite aircraft, the B-17. Trailer is a little cheesy, but I hope that's not representative smile


Yep, I really hope that's not representative of the overall tone of the series, but rather lots of action scenes packed together in a few minutes' worth of trailer.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638251 - 11/10/23 10:29 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I was watching Friends, 2004 episode

How is she , here 28 years old

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

the same actress, 34 years old, in The Pacific 2010 episode, I don't think they look alike

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
#4638259 - 11/10/23 02:41 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4638263 - 11/10/23 04:50 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I watched the trailer a second time and I have a slightly better impression of what the series will be like. I have to keep in mind that the purpose of the trailer is to SELL the series or movie in a couple of minutes so often times the trailer will be full of action scenes and one-liners.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4638284 - 11/10/23 10:23 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I watched the trailer a second time and I have a slightly better impression of what the series will be like. I have to keep in mind that the purpose of the trailer is to SELL the series or movie in a couple of minutes so often times the trailer will be full of action scenes and one-liners.


I am cautiously optimistic smile


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638286 - 11/10/23 10:53 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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The final shot made me wonder, was if ever acounted public how many blue on blue happened due to the box formation of bombers ?

#4638299 - 11/11/23 07:32 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
The final shot made me wonder, was if ever acounted public how many blue on blue happened due to the box formation of bombers ?


Do you mean the gunners on the B-17s accidentally firing on other B-17s?

Sadly in the confusion and chaos of battling attacking Luftwaffe fighters, I am sure it has happened once the bullets leave the barrels of the 10-13 guns of each B-17.

This shot?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

#4638419 - 11/14/23 07:57 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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There’s just something about CGI that looks plain artificial. For my part, I think the planes don’t move around in the air like I think they should move; ud and down, slightly closer to or further away from other aircraft. To me it looks like a computer distributed the planes in those formations with a computer’s regularity; - same distance to other plans and no variations.

Here’s an interesting video from very observant individual who’s gone through the trailer checking for historical accuracy. While I’m looking forward to MotA and love BoB and tP, I’m worried because of the general tendency of redacting historical events to suit modern sensibilities and personally and subjectively, I don’t like anything Apple TV has come up with so far.

Anyways, here’s the video:
[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/Kv5yt215jIg?si=KDZXJYPvoUjBTSxY[/video]

Last edited by McGonigle; 11/14/23 07:58 PM.

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#4638428 - 11/15/23 12:13 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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In the YouTube analyize video posted by McGonigle, Thank you McGonigle, the video creator also mention the Red Tails not belonging because like I said before, they flew out of Italy and won't be escorting bombers of the 8th Air Force..

I knew the Red Tails don't belong in this series and I mention that in December 2022,

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4616609/

just an excuse to be inclusive and to have a Black lady direct 2 episodes

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4616609/re-masters-of-the-air-apple-series#Post4616609

Here I posted info why Tuskegee Airmen shouldn't be in the series

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4616668/re-masters-of-the-air-apple-series#Post4616668

#4638438 - 11/15/23 11:42 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Here's some more woke craziness for you NFB.

https://deadline.com/2023/11/denzel...queror-movie-casting-netflix-1235598402/


There is ZERO historical evidence that Hannibal was black. In fact, Carthage was settled by descendants of the Phoenicians who were from the Eastern Mediterranean area.


Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 11/15/23 11:43 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4638465 - 11/15/23 09:00 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Isn’t there a scene in the trailer of the one pilot looking out over the desert? The 8th performed some shuttle missions to North Africa, so if we see any red tails I hope that is the reason.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4638481 - 11/16/23 07:55 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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@ Panzer, Re Hannibal. It's Antoine Fuqua. He likes to rock the boat.

#4638485 - 11/16/23 11:36 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
@ Panzer, Re Hannibal. It's Antoine Fuqua. He likes to rock the boat.



He's also an overrated director with an over-inflated view of himself.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4638917 - 11/26/23 10:45 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Here's some more woke craziness for you NFB.

https://deadline.com/2023/11/denzel...queror-movie-casting-netflix-1235598402/


There is ZERO historical evidence that Hannibal was black. In fact, Carthage was settled by descendants of the Phoenicians who were from the Eastern Mediterranean area.


It's well established that modern Lebanese people's DNA is mostly (something like 90%) Phoenician. Lebanese are lighter skinned than most Arab people.
This is how they look:
[Linked Image]



Attached Files tmp.jpg
Last edited by D13th_Korn; 11/26/23 10:45 AM.
#4639442 - 12/08/23 03:34 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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New trailer out. Still looking forward to this, although I my spider-senses are giving me an ever so slight sense of unease about this. I hope I am wrong.

https://youtu.be/lA-1JCRguZ0?si=kTBb1RCAxRkfsqw3


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4639443 - 12/08/23 03:54 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
New trailer out. Still looking forward to this, although I my spider-senses are giving me an ever so slight sense of unease about this. I hope I am wrong.

https://youtu.be/lA-1JCRguZ0?si=kTBb1RCAxRkfsqw3


Thanks for posting this. Overall I am quite looking forward to watching this series and I'm fairly certain I won't be disappointed. Having said that, there are two things I noticed in this trailer that bug me a bit:

1. The same old tired Hollywood cliche that all Germans during WWII were monsters who ate babies for breakfast seems to be at play in this series.

2. I really hope the romantic relationship aspect isn't overly-done (ie too syrupy and sentimental).


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4639445 - 12/08/23 05:16 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Again, I really want to see how they will sneak the Tuskegee Airmen in. I have respect for the Tuskegee Airmen and all they accomplish and contribute to the Allied Air War effort and victory but unless there is some real intelligent script without any devices and cliches, they don't belong in the history of the USAAF 8th Air Force.

#4639446 - 12/08/23 05:30 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Again, I really want to see how they will sneak the Tuskegee Airmen in. I have respect for the Tuskegee Airmen and all they accomplish and contribute to the Allied Air War effort and victory but unless there is some real intelligent script without any devices and cliches, they don't belong in the history of the USAAF 8th Air Force.



Agree 100% This is right up there with the silliness of casting a black actor to play Hannibal.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4639447 - 12/08/23 07:30 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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It looks like it will be as I thought, that they feature a shuttle mission to North Africa, and thus shoehorn the Tuskeegee in. If they suddenly feature Tuskeegee airmen in the UK, I’m out.

Agree on the romance. Band of Brothers and Master and Commander are the top two examples of movies (or series) that work because they leave all that stuff out. A story about B-17 crewmen doesn’t need any romance at all.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4639450 - 12/08/23 08:19 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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The Pacific had romance.

Robert Leckie with the Australian gal in Sydney.

John Basilone meeting and marrying Lena.

Robert Leckie coming home and romance his neighbor Vera who he ended up marrying til his death.

In another forum I posted the trailer I made the same comment about the Tuskegee Airmen and people called me negative, said I don't know anything about World War 2 accuracy, that the makers had military advice from people who did serve in WW2 so what do I know, and even said I was prejudice.

Band of Brothers had romance too. Everyone in the 506 loved Captain Sobel.

#4641216 - 01/17/24 06:03 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Opening



Last week's LA premiere


#4641219 - 01/17/24 08:44 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Looks like a video game (and not a sim!). Some of the scenes from the ground look like a Call of Duty game.. No instant chills like the BoB intro. I remain firmly in the middle of the road so far from what I’ve seen, hoping my skepticism will prove misplaced.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4641222 - 01/17/24 08:51 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Yep, same. I like war movies, but my eye was rejecting some of what I saw there. Still, there ain't much coming otherwise. I hope it doesn't suck.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641227 - 01/17/24 10:25 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Looks good for the most part but some of the CGI looked a little fake and most of the action scenes are overdone, IE a headon pass by a German fighter is terrifying so TEN German fighters making a head on pass must be even more so!


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4641233 - 01/17/24 11:39 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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And I thought I was the only one who thought that head-on attack looked wrong.

In the second link the actor talking about the 100th Bombardment Group just sounded stupid for someone involved in the movie. What he said was inaccurate and poorly stated.


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#4641239 - 01/18/24 02:13 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

Band of Brothers had romance too. Everyone in the 506 loved Captain Sobel.

Now that made me crack a smile. biggrin


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#4641257 - 01/18/24 11:39 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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To this day, David Schwimmer as Captain Sobel remains to me one of the most bizarre casting choices that actually worked out well!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641262 - 01/18/24 01:23 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
To this day, David Schwimmer as Captain Sobel remains to me one of the most bizarre casting choices that actually worked out well!


Look up pictures of both, from a physical appearance perspective it was perfect casting. And Schwimmers performance was excellent as well.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4641385 - 01/20/24 09:24 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Clip & Inside Look




#4641386 - 01/20/24 10:35 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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It could be good. I guess we will find out.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4641397 - 01/21/24 07:45 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
To this day, David Schwimmer as Captain Sobel remains to me one of the most bizarre casting choices that actually worked out well!

Unfortunately I have Captain Sobel's complete lack of direction finding capability. If I need to go left I tend to go right and if I try to out think the errors by doing the opposite I still end up heading off in the wrong direction. I do get where I am going but it is always an adventure when I don't use a map or some sort of digital assistance to get there. hahaha


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#4641416 - 01/21/24 02:42 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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100th Bomb Group veterans at premier of "Masters of The Air" in Los Angeles

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Attached Files FB_IMG_1705597382143.jpg

"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4641418 - 01/21/24 04:10 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I’m glad some of them are still alive to see this. I hope they are happy with what they see.

If I made a TV series about WWII, I would be nervous as heck to show it to the veterans. I would have had them along as quality controllers, I couldn’t bear to make anything they wouldn’t be happy with.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4641422 - 01/21/24 05:58 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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That’s quite an inspiring photo you posted F4U. It’s also a reminder of just how few are left of the “Greatest Generation ”.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641578 - 01/24/24 04:56 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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#4641633 - 01/25/24 04:12 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Not long to wait. On Apple TV+ it says tomorrow 1/26.

But from past Apple TV+ shows, like Servant that was listed as airing Fridays, it even dropped on Thursday nights.

#4641646 - 01/26/24 01:56 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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While waiting for it to drop, I'm rewatching this.

I don't mind the foreign subtitles. It's free. Can't be finicky.


#4641648 - 01/26/24 02:45 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Episode 1 and 2 just dropped!!

#4641653 - 01/26/24 04:27 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Screens for Part One and Part Two (possible spoilers)



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#4641654 - 01/26/24 06:00 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I have finish episode 1.

Will watch episode 2 tomorrow.

My judgement so far is no woke stuff (I HOPE NONE EVER) but script needs a bit of polishing and more character development.

On the first mission, B-17s are getting shot down and they are calling out things like Jones ship is down, Smith ship is in flame, no chutes.

Who is Jones? Who is Smith? Don't remember seeing a Smith and a Jones in the previous 20 minutes.

In Band of Brothers and in The Pacific, right from the first half of the first episodes you are already remembering names and faces:

Winters, Nixon, Meehan, Malarkey or Leckie, Basilone, Sledge.

Here in episode 1 everyone of those flight crews from CO to each B-17 captain to crew members, they all LOOK SIMILAR.

I had to rewind during the bombing mission to get an second look on the flight crews . There maybe 6 squadrons totaling 78 B-17s but looking at those crew, for all intention and purposes, I'm thinking I'm looking at the interior of only one B-17.

I think the lack of character development is no training shown in the episode. It starts right away in 1943 and the air crews are headed to England.

Unlike Band of Brothers and The Pacific where you show them going through the hardship of boot camp and you the viewer sort of form a bond with the characters on screen.

Both Band of Brothers and The Pacific had 10 episodes each. This only has 9 episodes. Unless they show the air crews training later on which I doubt they will, I think there should also had 10 episodes instead of 9 and dedicate at least the first episode to introduce the characters starting at their flight crew training.

The series is reported to have a budget of 200-250 million dollars, so far I can't see where that money went. Couldn't be all for the CGI and to build full size mock B-17 models .



#4641660 - 01/26/24 11:30 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

The series is reported to have a budget of 200-250 million dollars, so far I can't see where that money went. Couldn't be all for the CGI and to build full size mock B-17 models .
[/spoiler]




Inflation + Spielberg and Hanks aren't cheap to say the least. Remember they are the executive producers of the series.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641674 - 01/26/24 09:36 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Visuals: 9/10
Screenplay: 3/10 (narration meh, cheesy dialogue)
Plot: so far awol - what plot?
Actors: 9/10 doing a lot with no help

BoB and Pacific had the momentum of tide of war to pull you along w the characters as the battle waxed and waned. So far we have no real momentum or purpose to the actions of these character beyond their own survival. For me that's not enough yet because the foreshadowing is so heavy handed - "we're going to make it arent we buck/y?" No surprises in store there just a question of how many episodes it takes until buck/y buys it.

Memphis Belle still rules...


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#4641676 - 01/26/24 10:24 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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With a quarter of a billion dollars to play with, I expected good CGI. This is just….bad. Flight sims from 20 years ago had better visual representations of flight.

The actors are doing well with a script that so far is fairly plain, but the cheesy lines are fortunately few and far between. I like it so far, but it hasn’t blown me away yet.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4641677 - 01/26/24 10:54 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
With a quarter of a billion dollars to play with, I expected good CGI. This is just….bad. Flight sims from 20 years ago had better visual representations of flight.

The actors are doing well with a script that so far is fairly plain, but the cheesy lines are fortunately few and far between. I like it so far, but it hasn’t blown me away yet.

What I saw in the Trailers gave me the same impression.


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#4641680 - 01/26/24 11:15 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I just watched episode 2. I'm not impressed.

Also this series is specifically about the 100th bombardment group.

Looking at WIKI I'm still trying to figure out how the Red Tails fit into the series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100th_Air_Refueling_Wing


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#4641682 - 01/26/24 11:42 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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By the way, I did not know the JU-88 was also used as a fighter

Learned that from episode 2:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_88

#4641684 - 01/27/24 01:56 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Semmern, is the sound out of sync on your box?

I stream through the latest Apple TV and the sound is way off.


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#4641689 - 01/27/24 09:28 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean
Semmern, is the sound out of sync on your box?

I stream through the latest Apple TV and the sound is way off.



I use the app on my Sony TV, and I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4641710 - 01/27/24 11:10 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I've not seen it yet but here's a contrary, it seems, opinion... I suspect the author is NOT a pilot:


Masters Of The Air has set a new standard for the depiction of aviation and air combat in Hollywood.

Quote
This is not your standard review. It focuses on a type of action that Hollywood gets wrong far more than it gets right — aviation sequences, and especially those having to do with air combat.

After two episodes of Masters Of The Air, which follows the 100th Bomb Group during World War II and is based on a book by the same name, I walked away stunned at how well it portrayed flight sequences. In fact, I can confidently proclaim that this show should be what Hollywood looks to as the gold standard for aviation action. This is especially true as it pertains to air combat and the visual effects that can ruin a show or make it truly visceral and immersive.

A lot of care was put into balancing accurate portrayal of technical details and making the viewer feel like they are flying along with the bomber crews. The scenes where the B-17s fly into flak or are attacked by Luftwaffe fighters are absolutely terrifying. The only way I can put it is they feel 'kinetic,' like the concussive blasts, shrapnel, and machine gun rounds can actually fly out of the screen and hurt you. This remarkable feat is achieved, at least in part, through incredible sound editing, extremely high-quality visual effects, meticulous planning, as well as some great acting by the cast. The fact that they pulled this off on the small screen is even a bigger triumph.

About those visual effects, they are the best I have ever seen. In fact, it is very hard to know what is real and what isn't, even in scenes on the ground. There really wasn't a single moment that took me out of the drama because something looked way off factually or cartoonish. Once again, I really couldn't tell what was physical and what wasn't at times, but in the air, outside of the planes, it's all rendered, but it sure doesn't feel that way. The effects also look more polished than they did in the trailers.




Again, I've not seen any of the series yet but I will say that there are 2 totally separate aspects to "aviation visuals" in a series like this:

First is the "static" appearance of the aircraft and environment.
Second is the "dynamic" appearance of the movement of aircraft through the air.

Almost anyone can be a decent judge of the first but only a pilot or someone with some knowledge of aviation can judge the second. A scene can look 100% realistic in static appearance and fail if they have an aircraft performing maneuvers that are simply not believable.

And in my experience (outside of this particular series) many movies get the static appearance right but miss the dynamic appearance by a mile. I suspect many directors have seen an acrobatic aircraft perform at an airshow and they either assume any aircraft can do those things or they just don't care because having a B-17 etc do Pitt's maneuvers looks "cool". I remember seeing a commercial for "Red Tails" when it hit theaters showing P-51's doing some sort of practically stop in mid air, pirouette and head off in the opposite direction type maneuver and it turned me off so much that I have to this day never watched that movie.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4641716 - 01/27/24 11:34 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Red Tails is a steaming pile of cow dung. If it had a decent story, screenplay and script, that could have excused the War Thunder CGI, but it didn’t, so it doesn’t.

Also, that reviewer has no clue. «New Hollywood standard for aviation scenes.» Holy mackerel, how wrong he is!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4641727 - 01/28/24 01:55 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Some excellent posts in this thread and I think the bottom line here is that SimHQ members are NOT representative of the mainstream audience so we just KNOW when there is an unrealistic depiction of aircraft combat maneuvers in a movie or tv series.

The general mainstream audience really couldn't care less or they are unaware that the aircraft are performing unrealistic maneuvers.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641773 - 01/29/24 02:50 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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At :35 in the opening titles there is a Red Tail Mustang carrying rockets, which on an escort mission would not be possible because they would be using Drop tanks. I guess we will have to see in what context this scene appears but it is probably incorrect in any case.


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#4641776 - 01/29/24 03:03 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Originally Posted by KRT_Bong
At :35 in the opening titles there is a Red Tail Mustang carrying rockets, which on an escort mission would not be possible because they would be using Drop tanks.



Excellent example right here. Only aviation geeks like us on SimHQ and other similar PC fight sim sites would notice this inaccuracy or even care about it.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641778 - 01/29/24 03:39 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Still an inaccuracy!

Was teaching daughter some martial arts basics over the weekend: She wasn't squaring her punches, and instead crossing the centerline, extending her arm and shoulders. She had the hip movement down okay(still room for improvement), but I kept telling her to stop breaching the square and she was like, "But that's how they punch in the movies!"

My reply: "Well they don't have their shoulders dislocated, arms locked, get thrown, or elbows snapped because of their stupidity."

#4641780 - 01/29/24 03:50 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Still an inaccuracy!

."


Yes, it's still an inaccuracy but my point is that the film-makers are making the assumption (and quite rightly unfortunately) that the great majority of people watching their movie or show won't notice the inaccuracy or won't care even if they do notice it.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 01/29/24 03:50 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641781 - 01/29/24 03:53 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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True. I wish, however, that the "CGI artists" would actually spend some time training with their source material when handling historical military subjects, same as Keanu painstakingly trains with firearms for his films. At least he doesn't come across as an ignoramus when the hammers and firing pins start clacking.

#4641782 - 01/29/24 03:54 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by KRT_Bong
At :35 in the opening titles there is a Red Tail Mustang carrying rockets, which on an escort mission would not be possible because they would be using Drop tanks.



Excellent example right here. Only aviation geeks like us on SimHQ and other similar PC fight sim sites would notice this inaccuracy or even care about it.

And they are the wrong rockets anyway (I could be wrong) because the 5 inch Rockets were P-51-D-25's Late war and Korea. Up until then they only carried the 4.5 inch bazooka tube type in three tube bundles which were jettisoned after use. There may have been Field Mods but operationally it seems unlikely that you would go up for escort carrying rocket tubes to hit ground targets on the way back.


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#4641783 - 01/29/24 04:16 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Originally Posted by KRT_Bong
There may have been Field Mods but operationally it seems unlikely that you would go up for escort carrying rocket tubes to hit ground targets on the way back.



Agreed. It seems pretty obvious to me that the producers of the series put the rockets on the P-51 in the opening title sequence because it "looks cool".


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641784 - 01/29/24 05:09 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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another opinion- and Wody's channel is always worth a watch wink

Gonna be waiting till the series is available elsewhere, in the meantime I ride past quite a few of the 8th AF bases regularly- can't spit without hitting a WWII airfield in Norfolk biggrin


"There are two things that are infinite: The Universe and Human Stupidity. And I'm not even sure about the Universe." - Einstein
#4641799 - 01/30/24 10:31 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Naunton Beauchamp Worcestershi...
Waiting with gritted teeth to see British stereotypes portrayed in this series oft seen in such U.S. productions.
Ah, there we are, here's one; a supercilious upper-class RAF twerp, ending up with a bloody nose outside the boozer.
Now waiting for the 'gor lummy charlie guv'nor .....yore a toff an' no mistake" chirpy Cockney.



#4641804 - 01/30/24 11:33 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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LOL!! Your posts often bring a smile to my face BD-123. smile


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#4641805 - 01/30/24 05:55 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Well, if it's Spielberg and Hanks there will probably be more digs at the British...

#4641808 - 01/30/24 07:34 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
Well, if it's Spielberg and Hanks there will probably be more digs at the British...


Quite like to see your justification for that. Examples?

I don't mind what I've seen so far. No it's not accurate as we'd like but I'd rather watch it than the total crap that fills most of the programming such as celebrity survivor etc. If it was totally faithful to history it probably wouldn't get funded. The channels that show it are for entertainment not total historic accuracy.

Some people are never happy. If you don't like it watch the History channel.

#4641809 - 01/30/24 07:38 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: RossUK]  
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Originally Posted by RossUK


Some people are never happy. If you don't like it watch the History channel.


That statement would carry weight if the History Channel actually showed serious and accurate historical programs! biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641810 - 01/30/24 07:45 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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So what do you watch PM that you trust cos you seem to watch a lot of TV/Movies?!

My point was that artistic licence is obvious for Apple TV etc. My god if they did a realistic show about my job it would consist mainly of 90 percent paperwork and 5 percent of wandering around trying to find addresses and 5 percent of actual police work!

I get accuracy counts but at some point as long as not disrespectful it's still a TV show that you can choose to watch/subscribe to.

#4641811 - 01/30/24 07:50 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: RossUK]  
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Originally Posted by RossUK


My point was that artistic licence is obvious for Apple TV etc. My god if they did a realistic show about my job it would consist mainly of 90 percent paperwork and 5 percent of wandering around trying to find addresses and 5 percent of actual police work!

I get accuracy counts but at some point as long as not disrespectful it's still a TV show that you can choose to watch/subscribe to.



I agree that movies and tv shows should be allowed some artistic license. It would not be reasonable to expect a documentary level of accuracy. It's all a matter of degree. Just how much historical inaccuracy is ok? That will of course vary from person to person.

Take for example the recent "Napoleon" film from Ridley Scott. For me I really didn't fret over the scene where Napoleon was present at the execution of Marie Antoinette when in reality he was not there. I understood why it was done for the purpose of the story and that was good enough for me.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 01/30/24 07:54 PM.

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#4641854 - 01/31/24 03:36 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: RossUK]  
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Originally Posted by RossUK
Originally Posted by Trooper117
Well, if it's Spielberg and Hanks there will probably be more digs at the British...


Quite like to see your justification for that. Examples?



Off the top of my baldy-bonce;
'Band of Brothers' (cheery Cockney AA gunners, and 'upper-class twerp' Commando officer.)
'Patton' (Monty, puffed-up buffoon)
'Red Tails' (oafish troops and slapper women)



#4641856 - 01/31/24 03:51 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Monty WAS a puffed up buffoon. wink


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4641858 - 01/31/24 03:53 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123
Originally Posted by RossUK
Originally Posted by Trooper117
Well, if it's Spielberg and Hanks there will probably be more digs at the British...


Quite like to see your justification for that. Examples?



Off the top of my baldy-bonce;
'Band of Brothers' (cheery Cockney AA gunners, and 'upper-class twerp' Commando officer.)
'Patton' (Monty, puffed-up buffoon)
'Red Tails' (oafish troops and slapper women)




Spielberg and Hanks had zero involvement with Patton and Red Tails but I see your point though. It''s not just Spielberg and Hanks specifically but it's Hollywood in general that overuses stereotypes.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641859 - 01/31/24 03:55 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Monty WAS a puffed up buffoon. wink



Indeed he was as corroborated by statements made from other senior British officers during the war. And in the interests of being objective, Patton was indeed every bit of a prima donna as Monty was.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 01/31/24 03:56 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641866 - 01/31/24 06:09 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Monty WAS a puffed up buffoon. wink



Indeed he was as corroborated by statements made from other senior British officers during the war. And in the interests of being objective, Patton was indeed every bit of a prima donna as Monty was.

Not as much as Clark though eh?

Monty; puffed up, arrogant, spiky and difficult to deal with yes. Buffoon, I can't agree with. In many ways he was a good leader of men and concerned for their welfare.

Later opinions and observations have concluded that he was on the autistic spectrum.



#4641868 - 01/31/24 06:23 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123

Not as much as Clark though eh?

.



Mark Clark suffered the double-whammy of having an even larger ego than Patton but without the battlefield leadership talent that Patton had!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641944 - 02/02/24 12:56 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Waiting for the 3rd episode to drop.

#4641947 - 02/02/24 02:46 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Episode 3 just dropped. WEEEE!

I hope it's better than last week's!!

#4641973 - 02/02/24 04:24 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I haven't watch E3. Will tonight.

#4641976 - 02/02/24 05:16 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Just watched it, It was good. A lot of action. Probably way too many shots of 17's going into flat spins but overall It was very riveting.


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#4641979 - 02/02/24 05:58 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I will watch it tonight but I still have issue with episodes 1-2.

ME109s make one pass at the formation of B-17.

The ME109s are only able to fire their guns for a few seconds during that high speed pass and boom, you are seeing B-17s dropping out of formation with all 4 engines on fire.

That's not possible.

Real footage doesn't show those kind of Hollywood results




#4641981 - 02/02/24 06:12 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Real footage doesn't show those kind of Hollywood results



That's your answer.


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#4641983 - 02/02/24 06:18 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Chucky]  
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Originally Posted by Chucky


That's your answer.


thumbsup


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4641986 - 02/02/24 06:30 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I have bought the Band Of Brothers and The Pacific DVD sets and rewatched each one from beginning to end maybe 3-4 times.

I don't think I will be buying the DVD for Masters of the Air.

#4641994 - 02/02/24 10:04 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I tried to rewatch the first episode but the introduction to Buck and Bucky just leaves me disinterested.

While individual gun camera footage can only show the result of the attack of that specific fighter on that specific bomber, perhaps the depictions in MotA focus more of the results of coordinated fighter attacks? I can’t recall if I ever encountered a description of the fighter strategy. Did they attack as pairs or in a coordinated fashion to target specific aircraft? If so, bombers with several engines hit might be the result of attacks from more than one enemy fighter in a fighter pair.

I think the head-on attacks which were a much used and effective tactic are quite convicing in terms of high closing speeds but attacks from the rear should resemble more closely the gun camera footage relating to speed differential between fighter and bomber.

I just had a thought regarding the shots we think of as unconvincing CGI. Might some of them, especially in scenes showing bombers in flight en route from the viewpoint of another bomber, actually be real ww2 footage, colorized and digitally enhanced? Only some of it though.


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#4641995 - 02/02/24 10:42 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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To the best of my recollection (it's been a while since I read any 8th AF books) head on attacks conducted by the Luftwaffe against heavy bombers were usually 1 v 1 affairs. Each 109/190 would generally pick an individual bomber. Perhaps 2 fighters in trail, 4-5-- yards apart, might hit one bomber but I cannot recall (again, its been a while) ever reading of 2-3 German fighters lined up line abreast attacking one B-17 head on. Especially when doing so would leave other B-17's unharassed.

But hey, it looks cool so lets do that! wink


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4642002 - 02/03/24 01:51 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Watching episode 3.

Now it's known as a total failure.
Back in 1943 the brass mislabeled it as a success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweinfurt%E2%80%93Regensburg_mission

#4642008 - 02/03/24 03:12 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Finish E3. Still not feeling the love, ya know?

#4642022 - 02/03/24 11:22 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Finish E3. Still not feeling the love, ya know?


Indeed, I feel no empathy or connection as yet to the characters as one did with 'Band of Brothers' (to my mind, the best wartime drama series ever made) and the later 'Pacific'.

The 'Bloody 100th' lost nearly half it's force that terrible day, and although the factory was almost obliterated, surplus production elsewhere made up the shortfall until production was restored there.

True to Hollywood, as NFB pointed out, in this episode bomber structures failed catastrophically after seemingly a short burst from a high-speed pass, and kraut kites the same in return.

Perhaps the makers used the claimed figures of 288 for reference instead of the actual loss of 27 Luftwaffe fighters

Another thing that rankles, the presence of civvies, especially children with the base perimeter, and even on the pans. Surely this is fictitious?
I recall my Father telling me that he was greeted with suspicion and closely interrogated when riding to RAF bases in England in 1940, even though he was uniformed, with I.D. and mounted on a WD issued motorcycle. On the other hand, however, it was known when he was in North Africa post-'Torch' that US security was somewhat lax, and many luxuries (to Brits) and superior equipment (such as HD WLA bikes, much better suited to harsh conditions than the constantly failing GB Army issue BSA and Matchless) were easily 'found' or 'acquired' by crafty Tommies.

But I must keep telling myself (or my wife does with much rolling of eyes) that it is a drama not a documentary, aimed at an audience of which those with some knowledge of the period are in the minority, and of course it does perpetuate the memory and knowledge of what these very young men endured time and time again.
But is got combat aircraft in it, so I will continue to watch of course!

Also, 'Greatest ever air armada assembled?' (in the briefing) I think not. Consider the RAF 'Thousand bomber' raid on Cologne a year previously, and similar on Hamburg 'Operation Gomorrah' just a few weeks before the raids depicted.


Last edited by BD-123; 02/03/24 11:42 AM. Reason: Additional bollocks


#4642033 - 02/03/24 04:46 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: BD-123]  
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Quote
Another thing that rankles, the presence of civvies, especially children with the base perimeter, and even on the pans. Surely this is fictitious?


Not totally, iirc at least 1 USAF base was built encompassing existing houses within the perimeter, the occupants being issued passes to get to and from home.

Dispersals also could be right on the edge of lanes and kids will be kids...

But yeah cinematic licence


"There are two things that are infinite: The Universe and Human Stupidity. And I'm not even sure about the Universe." - Einstein
#4642041 - 02/03/24 07:36 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Yeah, «greatest air armada ever» completely ignores the thousand-bomber raids, and makes the whole thing smell of U-571 and «the US sub stole the Enigma codes» all over again.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4642043 - 02/03/24 07:41 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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No one is making you watch this. If you don't like it, turn it off!

Can't remember anyone being made to watch it here?

It's a TV drama people not a documentary!

#4642045 - 02/03/24 08:26 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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But remember that after the early daylight raids that these aerial armadas included fighters which put total aircraft much larger than the British raids which were almost solely bombers.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4642046 - 02/03/24 08:44 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Thorpe Abbotts airfield was built on the estate of Sir Rupert Mann, an English nobleman. His tenants worked as farmers in close proximity to the airfield, according to the book Masters of the Air by Donald L. Miller. While children within the perimeter would certainly be discouraged and a breach of security I think it is not possible to discount some sort of interaction between ground personel and the local population during daily operations. It might not have happened as depicted but; artistic license.

With regards to some narrative and dialogue; it is initially claimed by the narrator that the Norden bombsight was the bees knees as a high precision instrument allowing pinpoint accurate bombing wheras now we know it wasn’t quite all it was claimed to be.

Furthermore, the armada of some 360 planes is of course not the greatest air armada ever assembled at that point in time. As pointed out, the RAF was first with the thousand bomber raids.

We must however consider that at the time, people believed these things about the Norden. They also believed that the bombers could bomb in daylight and did not need fighter protection. And Brass was slow to acknowledge the fact that this was unrealistic. Management being typical management and fairly out of touch with reality did not want to adopt the lessons earned the hard way by the British experience from 3 years of war.

Now, if you tell your men to go in harms way, do you motivate them by telling them that the RAF put up a thousand planes on a raid and you can only manage a third of that number? I think perhaps not.

Instead you tell them that they got the equipment, the right plan and an overwhelming number of bombers and that their raid will shorten the war and save a lot of lives. H*** yeah! Now they can feel they have a tiny chance of coming back alive. Remembering back to my own service days I now realize that on some occasions we were being bs’ed and managed.

Only then does the management mess up by allowing the raid to be conducted as two, separate raids, not as a the coordinated attack that was crucial to the plan succeding.

This sort of fubar is not limited to any air force, service or nation. There was plenty to go around all the participating forces and nations.

We are meant to be there with the crews, in time period and with no more knowledge than they had at the time. Slowly we realize that maybe we were naive and not told what to expect, as Maj. Cleven remarked to Maj. Egan. The men had no benefit of historical hindsight as they lived the events. I think this show is trying to place us in the shoes of the incredible brave men and make us live the events with them.


Last edited by McGonigle; 02/03/24 09:21 PM.

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#4642049 - 02/03/24 09:02 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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It really must have been Hell.

And even the historians get some of it wrong, as witnessed by the comments to the article.

By the way, i think that the paintning, the first illustration in the article must have served as inspiration for some of the on-board scenes.


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#4642051 - 02/03/24 09:32 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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While I don’t like the CGI, and I feel that the tone of the entire show is off at times, I have to say I’m happy that we have a series about the 8th AF at all. As a friend of mine put it, one episode Masters of the Air is one hour less of Kardashians on TV. If only 10% of casual viewers catch an interest and start reading up on WWII, it will be a good thing.

On episode 3, oddly enough I found the short slow-motion segment approximately in the middle to be the best part of the show so far, with a much more believable tempo to everything happening in the air than the other air combat sequences that look like they’re happening at Mach 2. I have seen crossing and opposite traffic from the cockpit for quite a few years now, and two airliners meeting at Mach 0.8 look slower than the head-on attacks and even the beam attacks in this show. Hope the improvement continues.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4642052 - 02/03/24 10:17 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
While I don’t like the CGI, and I feel that the tone of the entire show is off at times, I have to say I’m happy that we have a series about the 8th AF at all. As a friend of mine put it, one episode Masters of the Air is one hour less of Kardashians on TV. If only 10% of casual viewers catch an interest and start reading up on WWII, it will be a good thing.


That’s a very worthwhile way of looking at things.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4642065 - 02/04/24 04:30 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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And while there are many valid things consumers can complain about with Apple, at least Apple has shown that it is willing to take risks on things that are not "mainstream friendly" when it comes to their streaming service. Foundation, Napoleon and Masters of the Air are a few examples.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642073 - 02/04/24 10:34 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: RossUK]  
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Naunton Beauchamp Worcestershi...
Originally Posted by RossUK
No one is making you watch this. If you don't like it, turn it off!

Can't remember anyone being made to watch it here?

It's a TV drama people not a documentary!


Indeed, but for a curmudgeonly Old Scrote like me, half the immersion of watching such a production is 'sharp intake of breath' and tutting at the inaccuracies! smile Besides, I will watch anything with warplanes of the period, even those soviet productions one finds in the virtual dusty basements of Streaming services.
And has been said, we are watching from the perspective of some knowledge of the subject, which the majority of viewers may not have. I recall a TV drama series about Army life in Aden in the 1960, something I had no real knowledge of, yet my wife was foaming at the mouth regarding the inaccuracies, stereotypes and tropes displayed. Hair too long, shorts too short, over-familiarity between officers and OR. Lone driving in open and unescorted LRs. Officers' wives depicted as bored, lascivious and permanently pissed, their only excitement, being knobbed by fit young Squaddies.
(Her father was 2IC RCT AR. at the time).



#4642075 - 02/04/24 01:57 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123
I recall a TV drama series about Army life in Aden in the 1960, something I had no real knowledge of, yet my wife was foaming at the mouth regarding the inaccuracies, stereotypes and tropes displayed. Hair too long, shorts too short, over-familiarity between officers and OR. Lone driving in open and unescorted LRs. Officers' wives depicted as bored, lascivious and permanently pissed, their only excitement, being knobbed by fit young Squaddies.
(Her father was 2IC RCT AR. at the time).


I would be interested in watching this. I'll scour Youtube today and see if I get lucky. smile

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 02/04/24 01:57 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642078 - 02/04/24 04:07 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by BD-123
I recall a TV drama series about Army life in Aden in the 1960, something I had no real knowledge of, yet my wife was foaming at the mouth regarding the inaccuracies, stereotypes and tropes displayed. Hair too long, shorts too short, over-familiarity between officers and OR. Lone driving in open and unescorted LRs. Officers' wives depicted as bored, lascivious and permanently pissed, their only excitement, being knobbed by fit young Squaddies.
(Her father was 2IC RCT AR. at the time).


I would be interested in watching this. I'll scour Youtube today and see if I get lucky. smile



"The Last Post" it's on Amazon Prime


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4642094 - 02/05/24 10:50 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Naunton Beauchamp Worcestershi...
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by BD-123
I recall a TV drama series about Army life in Aden in the 1960, something I had no real knowledge of, yet my wife was foaming at the mouth regarding the inaccuracies, stereotypes and tropes displayed. Hair too long, shorts too short, over-familiarity between officers and OR. Lone driving in open and unescorted LRs. Officers' wives depicted as bored, lascivious and permanently pissed, their only excitement, being knobbed by fit young Squaddies.
(Her father was 2IC RCT AR. at the time).


I would be interested in watching this. I'll scour Youtube today and see if I get lucky. smile



"The Last Post" it's on Amazon Prime



'The Last Post'. That's it! I couldn't recall the title.
Susan was 9 in 1965 when this was filmed, and lived with her elder sister and parents in the officer's compound shown in the series.
With poor viewing figures and budgetry restraints imposed on the BBC, Season 2 was cancelled.

A scene which caused mirth and derision from wife and MiL depicted some squaddies playing cards, betting on whose card-hand a fly would land first. Condsidering how flies were so prevelant on the Khormaksar base, it should of been whose hand a fly would NOT land upon in reality!



#4642095 - 02/05/24 11:26 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I watched the season 1 trailer online and forget about what I said. This show was very obviously made for a female audience. It's essentially a night time soap as we would call it in the US.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642099 - 02/05/24 02:53 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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For what it's worth, I just finished reading about 25 reviews for "Masters of the Air" from viewers and the 2 top complaints appear to be:


1. The series rehashes the same old tired stereotypes that Hollywood has been using since like the 1940's.


2. There is almost zero emotional investment in the main characters unlike what Band of Brothers had in spades.


Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 02/05/24 02:54 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642124 - 02/05/24 09:26 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Yeah, checked out halfway through episode 3. Around about where Buck/y says for the hundredth time.
"We're going to make it, Buck/y"
"Sure we are, Buck/y"
And I'm thinking I hope both of you buy it bc there's still time to introduce a character I care about.
I’m done. Shame.


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#4642146 - 02/06/24 11:35 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I really dislike the name. "Wild Blue Yonder" would be so much better. Masters of the Air sounds so "drug czar"ish. We have no "masters" or "czars" in this country.

Last edited by Hentzau; 02/06/24 11:36 AM.
#4642160 - 02/06/24 04:22 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Hentzau]  
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Originally Posted by Hentzau
... We have no "masters" or "czars" in this country.


That would be news to the golfers, among others.

#4642282 - 02/09/24 03:07 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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E4 just dropped.

Maybe 4th time will be the love.

Ya know? One of them shows that takes time to grow on ya.

#4642285 - 02/09/24 05:16 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Worst episode so far. The pacing and narration was disjointed and all over! I hope it's not a trend of the series going downhill. You can skip this episode and not miss anything.

#4642348 - 02/09/24 07:29 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Worst episode so far. The pacing and narration was disjointed and all over! I hope it's not a trend of the series going downhill. You can skip this episode and not miss anything.


I presume it was a vehicle for character development to conjure empathy or familiarity with and for the crews. Too stereotyped and shallow to my mind, but I'm not American.

There were very few raids on London that year, certainly none of the magnitude seen; mainly small hit and run and nuisance raids And what was the hosed Ack-Ack about? It looked like the skies of Baghdad in 2003. Luftwaffe bombing altitude was at least 15k feet, so that caliber of weapon would be ineffective.

I'll carry on watching the series though with intermittent tutting; it's got warplanes in it!



#4642355 - 02/10/24 03:27 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I did suspect the London bombing part was inaccurate. It was 1943 and the Blitz mass bombing of England by the Luftwaffe ended in 1941.

#4642367 - 02/10/24 02:03 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
I did suspect the London bombing part was inaccurate. It was 1943 and the Blitz mass bombing of England by the Luftwaffe ended in 1941.



Correct. The only strikes from the air on London of any consequence after 1941 were the V1's and V2's.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642368 - 02/10/24 02:15 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
I did suspect the London bombing part was inaccurate. It was 1943 and the Blitz mass bombing of England by the Luftwaffe ended in 1941.



Correct. The only strikes from the air on London of any consequence after 1941 were the V1's and V2's.

The 'Little Blitz' or 'Baby Blitz', of around 500 aircraft, Jan - May 1944 happened too. V1 and V2 attacks after June 1944.

https://historicengland.org.uk/what...-the-baby-blitz-and-v-weapons-1941-1945/


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#4642547 - 02/14/24 07:00 PM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Worst episode so far. The pacing and narration was disjointed and all over! I hope it's not a trend of the series going downhill. You can skip this episode and not miss anything.


You can skip the series and not miss anything. I also gave it one last chance bc I want to like it on principle, being a big Band o Bros fan. But I only got two minutes into the episode and the narration killed it for me. It’s not so #%&*$# complicated it even needs narration! It’s like they thought, wait we made a whole series without a plot … dang, better go back and try to narrate one in.

Ergggg.


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#4642617 - 02/16/24 05:36 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Just finish E5. Better than last week except for some of the CGI and also what happened to

the story line from last week episode of the 2 aviators in Belgium?

#4642759 - 02/19/24 04:16 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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I say the first episode tonight.
I had avoided this thread worried about spoilers and was saving my start till I had time to watch and get into it. Boy, it was not what I had expected.

The first thing that hit me, over and over, was the script and acting did not fit the time period. They all felt like modern people in vintage clothing, not really trying to fit the time. And when they did , it was with hackneyed quips that sounded like poor comic book writing. I don't know if the acting was bad or the script needed a rewrite.

#4642769 - 02/19/24 09:43 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: Tarnsman]  
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Originally Posted by Tarnsman
I say the first episode tonight.
I had avoided this thread worried about spoilers and was saving my start till I had time to watch and get into it. Boy, it was not what I had expected.

The first thing that hit me, over and over, was the script and acting did not fit the time period. They all felt like modern people in vintage clothing, not really trying to fit the time. And when they did , it was with hackneyed quips that sounded like poor comic book writing. I don't know if the acting was bad or the script needed a rewrite.



Yeah, that’s one of my main issues as well. BoB and TP were so well made that you felt you were there, almost like watching a documentary. Masters feels like it has people from 2024 playing people from 1943, and it feels very artificial. Just throwing in some brylcreemed hair and «boys» this and «boys» that doesn’t make it any more authentic. The poor CGI just adds to the mess.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4642770 - 02/19/24 11:12 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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This series was caught in development hell for several years and there were multiple script rewrites. That is usually a strong indicator that there will be fundamental problems with the finished product.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4642772 - 02/19/24 11:17 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Good point, Panzer!

Parts raining down in slow motion and a dogfighting B-17 made me cringe.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4642946 - 02/23/24 10:00 AM Re: Finally, a full trailer for Masters of the Air [Re: semmern]  
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Just finish episode 6.

For a series about USAAF bomber group bombing Western Europe, there is less and less air combat with each week's episode and 2/3 of talk talk talk , most of it unnecessary.

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