I started looking at the different models out there for VR headsets and I think I'm leaning towards getting an Oculus set but I will do some more research for sure before I make the significant financial investment. Right now these are the games I have which support VR:

Elite Dangerous
IL-2 Great Battles
DCS World

Which other VR games are people here playing?

IL2/DCS are 95% of my VR experience. A little bit of driving simulation too.


I would not discourage you from Oculus as my Quest 2 has been great, but Quest 3 is only a few months away. I don't know exactly how much improved it will be over Q2 but it's something to think about.

Also your CPU/GPU plays a big role in how your VR experience will be, especially in DCS.

Thanks! I'll read on the Quest 3 and see what I find.

As for GPU/CPU I'm running an Nvidia 3090 and an AMD X5900 so I'm good to go.

Have you tried VR?

I have the original Vive, then a HP Reverb2, but they basically just sit on the shelf.
The HP is better in most things being a few years newer, but as it's WMR based, a misplaced controller button press will get to the Microsoft store in the middle of your game. Valve, Facebook and Microsoft really don't want you using the other's ecosystems.

DCS and Elite Dangerous are wonderful in VR, but I get mild 'reverse motion sickness' on any moving vehicle, since I'm sitting still.
I find the best games are those designed for VR, like 'Job Simulator' etc, or experiences like 'Apollo 11'.
There's probably some 'adult' market that I'm missing, but I've got 'VR Paradise' in my Steam collection, and the technology has some way to go.

I've seen many demonstration videos of it but I myself have not actually used a VR headset. I know some people complain that it feels uncomfortable and that they just can't get used to it. Perhaps it would be wise for me to find a demonstration model at some store first before I decide to buy one.

Yep. I've never had a problem but some do.

If you go with the Oculus Dirt Rally works in VR as well. It can work in other sets, but you have to download some hacks to get it to work. I've set it up, but never really played it. I don't get motion sick on any vehicles or have problems with VR in most games, but the idea of bouncing around a rally track churns my stomach just thinking about it for some reason.

The F1 games also work well in VR. As does Microsoft's Flight Sim 2020.

I don’t play MSFS but thanks for reminding me about the Codemasters F1 racing sims. I’ve been playing those for many years.

I just happened to have an email from Oculus today and in part it reminded me of this great little VR experience, you have to try it: https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/2164469606967296/

Even if you don't go with Oculus, there is a Steam version that works with any (I believe) VR headset. It really is a stunning experience

I also want to try that Half Life 2 prequel "Alyx" which is VR ONLY.

Three or four years ago, I paid about $800 for what was supposedly the best VR headset (at the time).

I used it for a few days and sent it back for a refund. It did much right, but the image quality was not perfect in every respect.

I want perfect.

I assume I'll try again at some point. For example, I'm playing Fallout 4 and I've already bought and installed the VR version ("Fallout 4 VR").

Thus, reading the detailed outcome of your experiments and the "final grade" you give any VR set will be interesting.

Thanks Allen for your encouragement! I also had no idea that there was a VR version of Fallout 4. Is it official from Bethesda or is it modded?

I've avoided Oculus because of the Facebook link, and my earlier post might have seemed a bit negative but I don't regret buying the stuff, because:
1. I can afford it
2. There are moments where VR is just magical.

I'm just not that into it to want to have that thing on my head for more than a few minutes at a time.

This is really the main reason why I need to try out a demonstration model before I make my decision. I would be using VR primarily for combat flight sims where missions often can last 45 minutes or longer.

There is no longer any Facebook requirement for Oculus (Meta)

Headset weight is not an issue for me, it's certainly lighter than a motorcycle helmet.

In the summer it can get a little warm on your face, simple and highly effective solution is a small desktop fan.

"Perfection" is a long way off and will cost thousands for the headset and for the PC capable of driving it. Perfection also doesn't exist with monitors and never will.

VR immersion even with the resolution deficit compared to 4k monitors is well worth it and game changing. I have not flown in a non VR mode in at least 2 years, it has zero attraction to me.

There's also Alien Isolation in VR.

Thanks. I completely forgot about that one so I'll be reinstalling it if I do indeed get a VR set.

I bought it from Steam. The Steam store page says both developed and sold by Bethesda. It came out in 2017. I bought it more recently on special sale.

My concern for VR in combat flight sims would be button-pushing. I have the Thrustmaster Warthog setup so that would give me some good controls without having to see what I was pushing, but I also have the MFD buttons and Simgears ICP, and I really like that interface to the controls, not having to point-and-click on the screen, building up muscle memory, etc.

Does anyone have any input (no pun intended) on using the MFDs and other buttons in the F-16, F/A-18, etc., when using VR?

I do it via mouse

Just bought the Quest 2. It is my second headset after the Oculus CV1 which I bought in 2018 and loved using for driving- and flightsims.

The new Quest 2 is a real gamechanger for me because I can use it witout any cables attached to a PC. Not a problem if you´re sitting in a "cockpit" setup though.

But using it for games like virtual golf, where you can happily move and swing freely without worrying about the cables is just another experience.

You might want to look into an Augmented Reality setup, such as the NReal Air glasses.

We're still probably at least 5 years away from the point where the majority of major games titles are developed from the ground up for VR, but I'm already at the point where I'm not really interested in playing first person games on a screen anymore.

Once they get the controls and movement schemes figured out it'll be a wrap.

Either use a mouse or learn muscle memory on where those buttons actually are.
Unless you got a home 1:1 cockpit setup, then just fly and flaunt it.

IL-2 works well, quite a few racing games work well (I mostly us Raceroom Racing Experience), plus there are some gems here and there in the FPS and other action categories. There are some good sports games, like Thrill of the Fight (which can be a serious workout), Creed, and NFL Pro Era.

For those wondering about input, as F4UDash4 says, the mouse still works in clickable cockpits. You also will find a HOTAS to be useful, and remember voice command programs like VoiceBot, especially for things like comms. Even in racing games it's a good thing, as you can call the pits or spotters etc..

VR is quite amazing, and you can experience things that you just can't on flat screens. Actually checking your six while flying, finding yourself ducking behind your instruments while someone in a 109 breaks the glass on your Mustang, nailing the apexes in an open wheeler because you can actually truly see what you are doing, trading paint in tin tops, shutting your eyes to block out the sight of some terrifyingly huge monster looking for you as you hide, these are all things that are just different in VR.

I'll give you an example of something that happened in a game of Onward recently. During a gunfight on a street in some dusty town, brought my weapon up to nail someone...empty mag. Actually physically dropped to the ground behind a Jersey barrier, dropping my M4 in the process, and crawled into better cover...then had to pop smoke and crawl back for my rifle, did a fast reload while hugging the dirt, and then blindly dumped the whole mag over the barrier with one trigger pull (and hit a guy coming into the smoke!). I just never experienced that mix of panic and muscle memory in old school flat screen FPS games.

As noted by others, the Quest2 is excellent, although best tethered for long sessions in flight or driving games. If you are only going to be doing simming, then a surprisingly good last generation headset is the Samsung Odyssey+, which has the same resolution as vastly more expensive HTC stuff, and good inside out tracking and no base stations. Some dude is selling one in Miami here:

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/vgm/d/miami-samsung-hmd-vr/7618904924.html

Let us know how you get on!

Thanks for that very informative post James!

And thanks to those who replied to my questions as well, much appreciated!

In DCS, I have the Thrustmaster MFD's that are mounted about where they look to be in the actual cockpit, so finding them is intuitive. I've added a small tactile dot to the center button of each side of the MFD to help out as well.
I can also use my hand controller to flip switches and stuff in the cockpit, I don't find it to be much of a hassle tbh. I also recently picked up an Elgato Stream Deck and use it as the F-18's UFC. It seems to work pretty well. Again, tactile dots on specific keys.
I don't personally find it cumbersome or awkward, and as others have said - the immersion is outstanding! And, as others have said, I have no interest in flying flatscreen after tasting VR.

My problem with current VR offerings is that no one (that I am aware of) makes a headset that is optimized for flight sims / driving sims. Everyone is concentrating on virtual world socializing and mixed reality. Things like facial expression / body tracking and pass through video are meaningless to flying/driving sims.

My ideal VR headset would be:

1- optimized for resolution and field of view
2 - eye tracking with foveated rendering
3 - no pass through video of any kind
4 - no onboard game storage
5 - no wireless capability, must be connected to PC via cable (not an issue for sit down sims)
6 - no audio, I prefer to use my headset

Such a headset should be cheaper to make by eliminating un-needed features and concentrating on the features important to sit down simulations. Or taking the Quest 2 as an example for the same $400 price tag a headset that eliminated my items 3-6 and took the savings from those items and put it toward 1 and 2 would better suite the needs of a flight sim user.

well what is your Budget F4UDash4?? there are a few meeting those requirements I am thinking maybe checkout the pimax 8KX or 12kX?? Maybe even the varjo..

the main thing I see here from my experience is having the GPU Horesepower especially with DCS. I had gotten a 3070RTX and it is still underpowered for DCS 2.8 MT. I found it runs best and still looks decent with about 50% Resolutuion in OpenXR.. I prefer FPS over visual beauty but would loved if I had gotten that 3090 for not much more then I got the 3070 for but that shipped sailed and I am stuck with this 3070..

I can say what you see when you look at VR as it is very subjective but I could play with the lower rez and still think itlooks good, I seen some guys run @300% and still complain it looks crappy LOL!! it is a very subjective thing. but if possible and you have a friend who has one or even if you could go to a store and get a demo if it then you will have a better idea of what you like because it is a very subjective item..

For flight simming, VR is OK for immersion sessions, but I still prefer TrackIR for more serious sessions. I tend to do 50-50 between the two, I have a good time in both.

Main issue with cockpit-based gaming is really that in VR you are getting a 3D cockpit, and everything outside is too far away to appreciate the 3D-ness of it. Other than just "that stuff is far away and this stuff is near". Basically anything outside of your cockpit is a very far away 2D render.

It's different for driving/racing games however, these games are ideal for VR, you have your vehicle around you, and all the stuff outside is very near to you so you get a full sense of a 3D environment. Nearby cars, road surface, corner markers etc are all in "human appreciable " 3D and of course you're sitting in a chair with a wheels + pedals + gear shift and this lines up exactly with what you see in-game. Even if you don't really like racing games I suggest trying it out for the high levels of immersion it gives you, I can recommend Project Cars 2 (NOT 3) as it's cheap, lots of content (from ordinary cars through high powered street cars, racing cars, F1-style racing cars, rally, carts, boatloads of tracks, all the weather setup you could want etc), and very good. Avoid the most recent one.

Of course, Alyx represents the gold standard for "normal" VR gameplay. I highly suggest that one, you won't need any others unless you decide it's for you.

Other than that, games like Pistol Whip are just good fun, and will give you a workout.

Google Earth is very good too, and free.


As for the hardware, I have the HP Reverb G2, I'm VERY happy with it. The headset is sharp & clear, the sound is an off-the-ear setup that I really like (and was surprised by how excellent it really is), the controllers are OK, nothing good nothing bad. Inside-out tracking so you don't need "lighthouse" type external tracking devices.

Well that's the problem, those are $1500-$2000 headsets (but I did just get a $300 off coupon offer from Varjo). My point is that my $400 headset has things (passthrough video, internal storage/cpu, wireless, audio) that I paid for that I don't really need and that I would trade their value (say $150) toward better resolution, wider FOV. But such a $400 headset doesn't exist. Not that $400 is my absolute upper limit but the concept holds true if we're talking about a $600 or $800 or $1000 headset... all of them are going to have these "frills" (to me) that I would prefer to trade toward features I do want (res/fov/foviate). But I'm just a niche (VR) of a niche (flight sims) so I understand that is why no one makes the headset I would prefer.


Anywho....


PM, just to make your decision process tougher something new:

That's cool stuff, thanks for posting!

Useful thread.

Relevant to a couple recent posts:

I'm "all about" full wrap around field of view at perfect (for my eyes) resolution in all use cases. Other features are very secondary or tertiary. Price is a factor; but, I expect to "pay for it".

I get that, I do, but what I will say about that is this. Before I got my eventual VR (I tried a few before settling) I had the same concerns: that I need a wide FoV with great resolution. Now, I agree about the resolution, that hasn't changed and my current headset meets that requirement.

But as for FoV... I will say that if HP bring out a much wider FoV with no dropoff in resolution I will buy it. But pragmatically, the current one I have I simply am not aware of the restriction. It's all about how engaged I am in the experience, if I'm having a good time in VR I really don't notice any FoV restriction at all. In my VR sessions I have never once come out of it and wished I had a wider FoV, it simply did not enter my thoughts while I was playing. I'm pretty sure that I could go into a game and deliberately notice that restriction, but it would be a conscious effort for that purpose, and I'd perhaps wish there were more, but in my normal VR sessions I simply do not register it at all. I notice clarity & smoothness.

My Quest 2 has a rated FOV of 97 degrees. Now it isn't something that is always at the front of my mind while flying but when I need to see back over my shoulder... it's real obvious how restrictive it is. Rather than just turning my head as far as is comfortable then turning my eyes to see over my shoulder I instead have to rotate my entire body in the direction I want to see. The effort to see 30-45 degrees back past my shoulder in VR is as much or more as turning to see directly behind me in "real life". And at 60 years old I don't bend as easily as I once did.

I could easily use at least another 10 degrees per side of additional horizontal FOV in such situations, 20 per side would be enough to make me never complain about FOV again. Maybe

Just found an EXCELLENT website for VR comparison: https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=H...08-j&h4=HdfjN_0UlPY&h5=pDTZ02PkT

Nice find!!!

Yes! Nice link.

I bought (and returned) a Pimax in late 2019.

I see they are still #1 (by some measures) in the linked article.

In particular the wide field of view (important to me). The one I bought had that. But the images were imperfect (to my eyes).

The newer top rated one has much higher resolution than the one I bought. But, my issue was not just about raw resolution -- there was more to it (hard to describe).

Thanks F4U. I'll be checking this link out today.

Pico 4 vs HP G2

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/13xufvb/pico_4_vs_hp_reverb_g2_mini_review/

Quest 3 128gb will cost $499. Better resolution than Quest 2, possibly better FOV

Quest 2 128gb price has been reduced to it's original price: $299!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXEWrantx6I

PM, something to work toward:


https://youtu.be/xhjtrWb_3qQ

Excellent! I'll check this out.

I have a Reverb G2. My Driving sims are VR only. MSFS is VR for most planes. DCS is only on my monitor.

If someone isn't in a hurry, this technology might be worth waiting for:

Human vision FOV - Hypervision

That looks:
1 - Awesome!
2 - Expensive!
3 - like it would need a pair of 4090's running in SLI!

The peripheral displays are not as demanding as the forward view displays are, from what was said... so maybe not a terrible processing load.

Things are getting interesting!

True!

I'm planning a major PC build hopefully in the next 12-18 months along with an upgrade from my Quest 2 headset. Lots to consider.

That hyper FOV is pretty wild.

Oculus Quest 2 vs Quest 3: What can you get with a new Quest?


Sounds good but not quite enough for me to upgrade from my Q2

Nice comparison of the Quest 2 and the upcoming Quest 3!

Will definitely upgrade to the newer model next year. If you add the costs of more comfortable head straps + a better face cover + prescription lenses that is quite an investment though.

I purchased the below for my Q2, it makes it a bit more comfortable.... not that it was uncomfortable without it though. Very cheap

https://a.co/d/auWuF0z

People with VR and glasses, how has that worked out? Do you use lens inserts or squish your glasses inside?

I wear contacts. I believe most headsets have a way to make room for glasses and/or there are inserts available.

Using prescription lense inserts with my Quest 2 and before with my CV1.Much more comfortable than wearing glasses.

Though it works reasonably welll with the Quest if you you use the standard glasses spacer on your face cover and add somekind of silicon lens cover to prevent direct conctact between displays and glasses.

They(probably the manufacturers) say that headsets can't permanently change the shape of your skull, but then you think of those Asian chicks who wrap their feet. hmm?

Cheers all

I have bookmarked this thread for reference for when I buy my first VR headset at the end of this year or next year. Thanks again for all the info.

I would have liked to have seen a 50% increase in resolution between generations of headset but 30% is maybe okay

Meta Quest 3 will have nearly 30% higher resolution than Quest 2

Further on down the road...

I Wore the Future With a Brain-Connected AR-VR Headset

Destined to dominate in DCS... but you'll have to think in russian.

I find it quite interesting that a movie in 1982 was already exploring the possibilities of telepathically-controlled aircraft systems. I can't think of any other movie that portrayed that before Firefox.

I can't think of one either.

Back in '73 / '74 I did a report for Advanced Biology class on Biofeedback. My, how things have changed!

Flight of the Navigator in '78. Might not count because it involves aliens kidnapping a kid and using his brain to run their navigation systems.

Didn't expect this

Meta cancels Quest Pro, work on Quest Pro 2 stoppe

I am planning a serious new PC build, aimed primarily at VR, within the next 8-12 months. Sometime shortly thereafter I also plan to update my VR headset (currently Quest 2).

I am giving serious consideration to making a big leap in price range, and right now the Pimax Crystal is in the lead for my VR $$$.

PM, take a look and see what you think:

https://youtu.be/7UtaECiuczs

https://youtu.be/6HWpJdr0e9g

https://youtu.be/2zvAVYY76VE

That F-18 vs. MiG-29 dogfight looked stunning! Maybe I will go VR sooner rather than later.

Remember these videos, as most VR videos, are of the desktop mirror image NOT the actual headset video. There are "through the lens" recordings of various headsets which give a better idea of actual headset clarity.

This headset just became a contender for my next HMD:

High-end VR headset Varjo Aero is now available for half the price

NOT a limited time deal, this is a permanent price cut.

This fellow really likes the Bigscreen Beyond for simming:



As I understand it, both the Varjo Aero and Bigscreen Beyond depend upon having, or obtaining, the Valve locator beacons and hand controllers. The PiMax Crystal has inside-out tracking.

Yes both the Varjo Aero and Bigscreen Beyond require Steam VR base stations for tracking. Of those 2, and based solely on reviews by others, I believed I would prefer the Aero. Great resolution and very good FOV. And my understanding is that for seated flight siming one base station is adequate for tracking, which adds about $150 to the cost.

This guy has used pretty much all HMD available. Here are a couple of his videos on the Varjo Aero and Big Screen Beyond, note the Aero video is 5 months old so some things have changed (the price and he's tried the Pimax Crystal since) but if you check his latest videos I believe he still ranks the Varjo Aero as best overall.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJuHhKXJTzI




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyz-G27bfEQ

Another good video comparing the Aero and Crystal

I wasn't aware that Aero did NOT support AMD GPU's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vK45iQYP4

Pimax releasing a discounted Crystal specifically for simmers:

https://pimax.com/pimax-launches-cr...tions-no-controllers-updated-appearance/