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#4625841 - 05/01/23 09:19 PM BSOD after DCS  
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F4UDash4 Offline
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Whenever I run DCS (and no other time) and afterwards start my browser within a few minutes I get a Blue Screen of Death crash. The screen will inevitably be scrambled but I can make out that it is reporting some sort of memory issue. After a reboot or two it returns to normal. Yesterday after running DCS I thought "I will shut down and prevent the BSOD" so I shutdown (not reboot) the PC. After 30 seconds or so I restart the PC. Within a minute or so of the desktop coming up, BSOD anyway!

Ryzen 7 5700G
MPG X570S EDGE MAX WIFI mobo
RX 5700 XT 8Gb
32 Gb Corsair 2666 DDR4
Samsung SSD 980 1Tb M2

This all started after installing the Samsung M2 SSD.

Ideas?


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#4625845 - 05/01/23 11:19 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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You mention this started after you installed the M2 drive...what makes you say that? What I mean is, was it *immediately* after you installed the M2 drive?

I don't see any other drive(s) mentioned, leaving me to think the M2 is your boot volume...is that correct? If so, can you give detail on how the Samsung drive came to replace your prior boot drive? (The process, including any software you used)? Any possibility of putting the original drive back to see if the problem goes away (just as a test, not intended to be an actual 'fix'). If you're right about the M2 being at the source of the problem, then changing the drive as a test should prove/disprove your theory. True enough, the last thing that was changed in a system before problems start is often the culprit...but sometimes, there can be coincidental change which sometimes you aren't even aware of or thinking of (Windows update comes to mind here). Sometimes, *changing* something you know about causes Windows to change something you *don't* know about.

Have you considered updated drivers/BIOS for the motherboard and the Samsung M2 firmware?. Speaking of the M2 drive, is it new? Have you run Samsung's Magician on it to check for any issues it might see?

Was the system known to be stable and unaffected by this problem before the Samsung drive? For how long?

What about the two GPUs (5700G APU and the 5700XT; I ask about this as related to the 'scrambling' you mentioned possibly being a video driver issue. Even during a blue screen, graphics corruption is not typical).

Have you considered updates for your browser?

Also, you don't mention...any overclocking? Is your RAM running an XMP profile? (Have you tried running the RAM at default/auto settings?)

Sorry for all the questions, but that's where the situation seems to have left you. Just some stuff I'd be asking myself if I were in that spot.

#4625877 - 05/02/23 02:35 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Are you running Samsung's Magician software in the background? If so, don't. Disable it from running on startup.

I use it to update the firmware and set the optimizations, but then I close out of the app.


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#4625883 - 05/02/23 03:43 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: ArgonV]  
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Originally Posted by ArgonV
Are you running Samsung's Magician software in the background? If so, don't. Disable it from running on startup.

I use it to update the firmware and set the optimizations, but then I close out of the app.


Great point. The stupid software - like most these days - wants to run all the time by default. I've gotten so accustomed to checking/turning this off, that I sometimes forget to even mention it. It's necessary to update firmware, for example...which is crucial for these drives (particularly of late)...but they could just as easily turn it *off* by default and offer to turn it on during setup. Opt in, if you will, rather than opt out. IIRC Samsung Magician shows a button to change "Options" at the end of it's setup, but doesn't explicitly ask, and is set to run by default if you don't turn it off.

I understand it can't keep you updated if it's not running...but I'd rather check for/do updates manually anyhow. Of course, a lot of people don't wish to keep up with it themselves, hence the 'automatic approach'. Still, I feel apps should give the user the choice - specifically and deliberately - rather than default to running automatically.

#4625913 - 05/03/23 01:17 AM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: ArgonV]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
You mention this started after you installed the M2 drive...what makes you say that? What I mean is, was it *immediately* after you installed the M2 drive?
Within 24 hours, never happened before

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
I don't see any other drive(s) mentioned, leaving me to think the M2 is your boot volume...is that correct?
Yes

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
If so, can you give detail on how the Samsung drive came to replace your prior boot drive? (The process, including any software you used)?
I do not recall... I think the software came with the M2

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Any possibility of putting the original drive back to see if the problem goes away (just as a test, not intended to be an actual 'fix').
maybe

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Have you considered updated drivers/BIOS for the motherboard and the Samsung M2 firmware?
I believe they are up to date, will check when I have some time (probably Friday)

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Speaking of the M2 drive, is it new?
yes

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Have you run Samsung's Magician on it to check for any issues it might see?
no

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Was the system known to be stable and unaffected by this problem before the Samsung drive? For how long?
no problem prior

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Have you considered updates for your browser?
its up to date, browser was just an example. doing anything (or nothing sometimes) post DCS the same thing happens

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Also, you don't mention...any overclocking? Is your RAM running an XMP profile? (Have you tried running the RAM at default/auto settings?)
no overclocking, everything default


Originally Posted by ArgonV
Are you running Samsung's Magician software in the background?
No


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4625924 - 05/03/23 12:01 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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So...

Since the browser was 'just an example' - and given that "doing anything (or nothing sometimes) post DCS the same thing happens" - then I suppose it's safe to surmise something's screwy about the DCS installation (and, perhaps more important, how it interacts with the OS).

At the risk of stating some obvious things and/or sounding like an a$$...I'd consider the following:

Look over drivers and BIOS to see if anything should be updated. I **wish** I could say newer updates are always best - but that's not always the case. It truly is a judgment call/crap shoot these days. If you have specific questions in this area, ask.

Try the original drive to see if the problem goes away when you put it back. If I'm following what you're saying, it should. (Not sure why you say 'maybe' it's possible rather than a firm yes or no...but I'm sure there's more about the situation I don't know).

After that...

Duplicating a 'live' boot volume using software/'relocating' an installation to a new drive is not without potential for problems. And, to be accurate, the only real reason for doing it is convenience. Of course, that convenience comes at a certain price, and you're 'living the dream' so to speak. In 40 or so years of building probably thousands of machines, I don't recall doing this often (if at all). And there's a reason it's that kind of rare: Avoiding problems.

In my own humble opinion, I'd say rather than trying to duplicate a boot volume, you'd be better off to install the new Samsung but boot to your original drive first, then update the firmware on the Samsung (using Magician, which you should install even if you prefer to disable auto-start). Then - if it's me (and this is not popular advice, it's intended to be technically sound, not convenient or easy)...I'd do a clean Windows install, followed by a clean DCS install (on the Samsung drive, I mean - after you remove your original drive).

Note I am aware this assumes you can run both SSDs on the same machine at once (just long enough to boot to the old drive, and update Samsung firmware), but hopefully that's not an issue.

If you want a shorter way, you can *try* to just re-install DCS...but, since the problem appears to be outside/after (but still in conjunction with) DCS, it may not work. Again, IMHO, your current situation is (at least in part) a product of said shortcuts.

As mentioned, this is intended to be helpful/sound technical advice, not to step on toes. Apologies in advance for any offense taken - none intended.

HTH

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/03/23 01:33 PM.
#4626262 - 05/09/23 02:11 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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DCS was reinstalled after the drive change.

I didn't have a lot of time to spend on it this past weekend but I did upgrade a few drivers.

I ran DCS once (in VR) and flew for maybe 30 minutes. Immediately after exiting DCS I shut down the PC and turned off the power supply for about 10 seconds. Rebooted and had a BSOD within seconds of reaching the desktop.

Later I started DCS in non VR and edited a mission for about 10 minutes exited DCS amd PC continued to operate fine. So VR/DCS related?

When the first BSOD took place I took a picture with cellphone, see attached.

Attached Files 20230506_164559.jpg

"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4626301 - 05/10/23 02:21 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Well, as I said earlier, reinstalling DCS alone might not work (TBH, I said that because I didn't think it would work). Now it would appear we know why...

Given the (new) mention of VR, it seems apparent that 'something' about the VR setup is causing Windows problems - presumably related to "memory management" (although those Windows blue screen details can be *horribly* vague and/or misleading).

Were the video drivers among those you updated this past weekend? Have you checked Device Manager to see that your monitor is using a proper driver, as opposed to a 'Generic PnP monitor' driver, as is common with Windows sometimes? (The monitor/display shouldn't be distorted like that, even if you have a BSOD...this may or may not be related to the actual cause of the BSOD but isn't "normal" of itself).

Did you try uninstalling/reinstalling the VR software? Worth trying.

If you don't wish to take the 'nuclear option' (clean install on new drive - which is still my recommendation, assuming that reinstalling VR doesn't work), then you should probably resign yourself to spending time tinkering about, trial-and-error troubleshooting that may or may not work.

If I can be honest, the real reason I recommend the clean install...well, two reasons: one, it's just technically prudent...but two, there's a good chance you could spend more time mucking about trying to find out what's wrong, than you'd spend just getting on with it and doing a clean install.
That's the biggest reason I suggest that it's worth considering, even though I do understand the implications. Yes, it will take some time, but you're spending time anyhow - and without a guaranteed outcome. Although we now *know* this is caused by VR, the fact remains it came about when you changed drives (but without doing a clean install).

Did you by chance try putting the old drive back as a test to see if the problem changed?

Incidentally, have you searched online for (something like) "VR causes memory management BSOD"? Better still use the name of your VR set (Oculus or whatever you have). You *might* get lucky and find something online that explains it...

...then again, you might spend two days looking, during which you could've done a clean install and been flying for a day and a half wink

Another reason I keep going back to a clean install is that it's very likely to get rid of your problem (although nothing is guaranteed). I'd have probably already done it, if I'm being honest (again, assuming that un/re-installing VR doesn't fix it).

As always, the foregoing are entirely my own $0.02, for whatever it's worth smile

Best of luck to you.

(P.S. on an unrelated note, I love the quote in your sig....how true it is...)

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/10/23 02:31 PM.
#4626345 - 05/11/23 01:58 AM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I am going to try reinstalling VR software when I get a chance, maybe this weekend. Thanks for your continued suggestions!


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4626363 - 05/11/23 12:36 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: kksnowbear]  
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When your time permits, please be good enough to address the questions that may have been overlooked (pasted below for reference):

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Were the video drivers among those you updated this past weekend?

Have you checked Device Manager to see that your monitor is using a proper driver, as opposed to a 'Generic PnP monitor' driver, as is common with Windows sometimes? (The monitor/display shouldn't be distorted like that, even if you have a BSOD...this may or may not be related to the actual cause of the BSOD but isn't "normal" of itself).

Did you by chance try putting the old drive back as a test to see if the problem changed?

#4626789 - 05/17/23 11:34 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Been a while...any updates?

#4626905 - 05/19/23 02:48 AM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Been a while...any updates?


Yep, been working 12 hr days. And busy weekends too. Video drivers are definitely up to date. I'll have to double check the monitor driver, pretty sure it has manf driver rather than generic but can't swear to it. The old drive was wiped and repurposed for storage.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4626997 - 05/19/23 09:59 PM Re: BSOD after DCS [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Sorry to seem like I was rushing you. Not at all. Did plenty of 12 on/12 off back in my military days so I get it.

Anyhow hopefully you'll have a chance to properly pursue it at some point. Maybe the VR re-install will help; if not then I'd suggest as before that you'll actually spend less time just getting on with a clean, proper Windows install (that will likely resolve the problem) than with all the trial-and-error (and no assured outcome).

Best of luck to you.


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