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#4621961 - 03/03/23 02:25 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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In the Way of the Hunter community there is a lot of debate about how the animal detection routines work. There's a very vocal section that complains endlessly about the game being too hard. I'm not interested in that debate. I really like the game and have success within the current framework. In response to one of the threads discussing this on the Steam forums I wrote a post to maybe give these players a different perspective. If you want to spend your time arguing and complaining, that's fine. But there are surely many players who just need to alter their approach. I'll re-post it here


------------------------------------------------------

Personally I don't find the animals too easily spooked. That's different than saying they don't spook easily. When I see the posts here talking about how much some players are struggling with getting in a good position to shoot, my first reaction is they are struggling with two things -- pace and tactics.

I play on what I call reduced Hunter difficulty. Hunter, but with some Hunter Sense options disabled. For the purposes in this post, I'll approach it from Hunter level perspective.

First, pace. The standard advice given when someone mentions that animals spook too easily is to slow down, make less noise, right? Invariably the player responds that he is doing that. But I doubt it's true. If it were, he would be closing in to good firing range. How slow is slow enough? That's a matter of experience. When you start having success you find that threshold, that point at which going over makes the animals bolt.

So really, if you are spooking animals at over 120 yards you are making too much noise. The only ways to not do this are stance and speed. It's clear that the animals use a meter-like mechanic to 'decide' when to run in a sound detection event. When the animal detects you the meter starts to fill, and when it hits the tipping point he bolts. They only way to reduce the meter is to stop moving. A lower stance or slower movement still fills the meter, albeit at a slower rate. For this reason, a crouched stop-and-go player can be more stealthy than someone who crawls continuously without stopping. Think of it like you're using a garden hose to fill a bottle with a hole at the bottom. The hose fills faster than the hole drains. So the only way to keep the bottle from overflowing is to shut off the hose. Or stop moving.

If you think you're already going slowly and quietly enough, but the animals are spooking outside 120 yards, you are not slow and quiet enough. I'm not going to argue about what it right or wrong, only with how it is. My advice? Crouch walk everywhere, stop frequently. Like move for 15 or 20 yards, then stop for ten seconds. Glass the terrain. Analyze the terrain. Use it your advantage. Inside 100 yards and things get much more difficult. At 70 yards you need to be inching forward, very, very slowly.

Which brings me to the second point, tactics. And I'll say that if you are going for 70 yard shots you are doing it wrong. These shots happen, and close range hunting is a skill to be mastered. It can be seen as a challenge of your ability to stalk stealthily. But that's advanced stuff. If you're just looking to harvest game, don't take 70 yard shots.

For this post I'm just talking about deer hunting. Small game, birds are another matter. For me, I'd guess my average deer shot comes from about 150-225 yards. Close enough to ensure accuracy, far enough away to keep the target calm. The key here is how you hunt the terrain. Taking 70 yard shots means you HAD to get close. Probably because you're hunting heavy terrain (forests/brush) or the lay of land forced your hand. Work to not do this, You dictate the shot, not the terrain.

This is done by hunting the spaces that will result in a favorable shot. Fields, lakes, open ground. Rivers and streams are good, but don't stalk along the bottom. Find the right level up a flanking hill or ridge. This elevates your sightlines. Down on the creek bottom your view range is reduced. Up the slope the surrounding terrain opens up. But there's a point where the tree tops begin to close in your sight lines once again. Somewhere in the middle is that perfect height to maximize viewing distance.

Same with lakes. Don't hunt the shoreline. Find an overwatch position some distance away. Always use the terrain to your advantage. Seek the high ground. One of the most common situations we find ourselves in is to come across an animal or herd that is reverse-slope. You can see the tops, maybe just the antlers, or know they're there from a call. The puzzle is how to get a clear shot at an animal you mostly cannot see clearly, it's terrain-masked. I think inexperienced or hasty hunters just try to go straight on in, as quietly as they think necessary. The problem is you have to get all the way to the crest before you un-mask that animal to get a shot. This is how we find ourselves facing a 70 yard shot, or more likely, a bolting herd and no shot at all.

Instead, glass the terrain and flank that position. It might mean retreating for 200 yards, then working around the flank for another few hundred so that your sight line in now along the axis of that ridge or crest that was causing the reverse slope. Now you have a clear shot from well outside the 'danger zone' of being inside 100 yards.

By all means challenge yourself with heavy terrain hunting if it appeals. But if you just want to take game and get some shooting in, slow down -- no, slower than that -- and take full advantage of the terrain. Move through it with always maximizing your sight lines as the goal. Stay out of the heavy stuff if you can, Hunt like you were doing it for real, and for real you'd be overlooking a field or two.

One more related point.... we always talk about stalking in to the wind, and this is a good approach. But don't limit yourself too much. I never want to stalk with any following wind. But that means the whole 180 degree frontal arc is good. And actually, in this game the herd animals eating, drinking and resting tend to orient in to the wind. So stalking in a crosswind presents more broadsides ahead of you, where stalking straight in to the wind presents a lot of tail shots.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
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#4622066 - 03/05/23 07:42 AM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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How do you guys approach these games? Objective - based ("need a 5 star buck, I'll hunt exclusively that") or opportunity - based? Or perhaps a combination of both? I find that the objective - based gameplay can be very frustrating but also very rewarding, yesterday I did maybe a 2 hour stalk (lol I know) to specifically get a 4 star sheep but I was successful and it was extremely rewarding. I screwed up the same target (not the same animal) a few days ago and I quit the game in rage biggrin

#4622069 - 03/05/23 09:24 AM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Even after over 100 hours in the game, I've never seen any 5 star animals and maybe two or three times a 4 star, but I didn't shoot them. I almost exclusively hunt weak males, to improve populations genetics, but this doesn't seem to be have much effect. Either I am doing something wrong or I am hunting in the wrong areas. On the Steam forum I read that animals only reach 4/5 stars in certain territories, but I've no idea where these areas are.

#4622071 - 03/05/23 01:07 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: D13th_Korn]  
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Originally Posted by D13th_Korn
How do you guys approach these games? Objective - based ("need a 5 star buck, I'll hunt exclusively that") or opportunity - based? Or perhaps a combination of both?


For me, yeah, a combination of both. I consider myself a deer hunter. That's always what I'm going for. Whitetail deer are my favorite animal to hunt. But I sort of expand that idea to include all antlered animals. Elk, caribou, mulies, whitetails, sitka deer and so on. So I almost always carry a tier 5 rifle, either the .308, or the .270 which I've been carrying a lot more recently. But of course this leaves one slot free to carry another weapon. I mix the second slot up and then hunt whatever type of game is proper for it. A shotgun for birds and bunnies. A .223 or .30-.30 for fox and badgers, or a .300 for big game. A few times recently I've just carried a .308 since hunting with more than one long arm is kind of pushing it, even if the game allows it. So yeah, I'm a deer hunter but since I have a second gun most of the time I expand out to cover whatever I'm kitted out for. I'm firmly in the 'trophy stage' of the hunter arc, and the decisions I make on which animals to harvest are centered around managing the herd.

Juri, that's just bad luck I reckon. Five stars exist even without culling the proper animals With that much time in it's hard to believe you haven't encountered a few. You are overdue. So far I've managed to take eleven five-star animals.

2x Whitetail Deer
2x Mule Deer
2x Pheasant
Red Deer
Bighorn Sheep
Mountain Goat
Wild Duck
Lion

All but the red deer were in Nez Perce. Six of those were in the two-mile corridor where I do most of my work. It's the zone I've set up as my five-star laboratory. These maps are so big, and now there are three of course, that even with how many hours I'm sinking, and it's a lot at 150 already, that I'll never be able to manage the herd in all regions in the maps. So I focus on the river valley that runs south from Bear Den. Both whitetails, one mule deer, both pheasant and even the bighorn were taken here. The other mulie was taken in Diamond Drill. The laboratory lies in the space between Bear Den and the outpost camp in the Rivermouth region, bordered to the east by the railroad and to the west near the river (and the fields on either side of it). Doing the proper culling approach looks to have paid of here so far.

I still hunt all over the map, but it's only here that I do a stalk nearly every game day in this reserve, and it's paid off. Since the wind is most often from the north, I fast travel to the Rivermouth camp, then do a slow stalk back to the north toward Bear Den. Or the opposite if the wind switches around. Good spot for whitetails and mulies, pheasant, foxes and often elk. There should be a lot of badgers here, but these things are trolling me. It's wide open through here for good sight lines and detection range, and there's a water source straight down the middle. Near the tracks it's heavier terrain. I cannot say with any certainty if any five-star animal came about because of my herd management, but it sure seems to be paying off. Of course those ten five-stars are out of 250 harvests, so even then the rate is low.

Quote
On the Steam forum I read that animals only reach 4/5 stars in certain territories, but I've no idea where these areas are


It's primary habitat and private land that have higher fitness. I got passes in all except two private reserves in Transylvania by doing the missions. So there are three I have yet to unlock now that there is another one in Alaska. No way I'm gonna drop 4500 on them. Diamond Drill is really good, but difficult terrain to hunt. But five-stars only exist in primary habitat.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4622074 - 03/05/23 02:25 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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I have a few deer herds in Nez Perce that I strongly manage, but never had a male above 3 stars in them. Maybe the problem is that these herds are all in the central map area near the main lodge and not on private land.

#4622075 - 03/05/23 02:30 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Well, like I said, I've taken three deer in that area just south of the lodge. Chances are better in private land, but primary habitat is the only requirement. For whitetails and mulies, that is grasslands and lowland forest, which all of Cottonwood, Rivermouth, Small Paws, Black Fox Range, Greenacres and Diamond Drill are.

Actually, the first five-star whitetail was taken in the heavier terrain about half-way between the South Paws camp and Bear Den. But that is labroratory-adjacent smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4622522 - 03/11/23 03:36 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Dammit, I thought some discussion was afoot. Must have spooked smile

So, what are you guys up to? Where are you hunting? What are you harvesting? Which weapons are you favoring? Anything worth talking about?

New Way of the Hunter patch dropped a couple days ago.

New weapon pack DLC drop coming Tuesday in Call of the Wild.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4622531 - 03/11/23 07:41 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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I've been splitting my time between the two games. Last week there was a sale for Call of the Wild and I snapped up everything I had yet to get. That was four reserves (Mississippi Acres, Te Awaroa, Parque Fernando and Rancho del Arroyo) plus a few weapons and gear packs, plus the tree stands and tripods. With all this new stuff I've been putting more time in to Call of the Wild.

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of these reserves, and why they were the last ones I bought. Te Awaroa (New Zealand) is pretty good. And it comes with a new rifle and cartridge, the .303 (Enfield). The others are fairly dense terrain. I don't like hunting where I can't see very far. High grass, sunflowers, corn fields and that sort of stuff kinda sucks. How can you spot a fox in a cornfield?

As said above, I am firmly in the trophy stage of my hunter arc. I seek the very best animals, the best trophies. In Call of the Wild, these are the Diamonds and Great Ones. At this stage I've taken nearly 600 animals in this game. One diamond. One! So I started to wonder if I could be hunting dry holes. In other words, maybe the reserves don't even have any diamonds, and you can't find what isn't there. So I found a tool, an animal population scanner that you can grab off the Nexus

Call of the Wild Population Scanner

What it does is read your pop file and displays what is on the map, ranked by trophy rating and also displays rare furs. So you can see at a glance which maps have the top ones. It doesn't reveal where they are, only that they exist. This changes over time of course, but it's great to be able to see which reserves are currently the best ones for trophy hunting. In my current set up, two reserves far outclass the others for diamonds. Revontuli and Mississippi. Each has more than twenty diamonds. Revontuli is a dream to hunt. A lovely parkland sort of reserve with a good whitetail pop. One of my favorites.

Mississippi on the other hand is a terrible map to hunt. Really dense. And the one unique animal, the gator, is very difficult to hunt. But with so many diamonds on it I want to be successful here. I'm a pure stalker, never using callers or scents, blinds or stands. But this map is so close that I think it makes sense to at least start trying to take advantage of the stands (tree or tripod) to get my eyes above the undergrowth, so I'm branching out a bit.

Mississippi also comes with a new weapon, the .22H. It's a centerfire .22 cartridge and bridges classes 1 and 2, making it very useful indeed. It is loud for a .22, but it's nice to have one rifle to take both classes of game.

I'm constantly changing up my loadout, always mixing up what I am carrying. The class 4-8 weapons have the most variety.

-- 6.5 mm. I really want to like this one. 6.5mm is a very nice cartridge. High velocity, flat trajectory, low recoil impulse. Very popular these days. But I found it a little weak for larger deer (mules, reds). It makes a great Ibex weapon though. So in Quatro Colinas it's pretty good.

-- .303. WW2 bolt actions are cool. I like it, but it cost me a diamond. There's a mission where a diamond is served up on a plate but I didn't know it. At the end a diamond 'white wolf' comes after you. I shot it twice with the .303 which I happened to be carrying. The wolf was running, quartering in to me and I took a shot, which hit aft of the ribs and hit his belly. He kept coming and now straight on I hit him again in the chest. But the round didn't penetrate to the lung. He fell, but since I failed to actual hit the vitals, the harvest was downgraded to gold. Gutted.

-- M1 Garand. I really like this one. It's a Garand so duh. The .30-06 is probably the best 4-8 cartridge, with the best penetration and expansion. Just edges the .308. With a scope on it it is proving to be a very effective deer rifle and I've been carrying it a lot lately.



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4622827 - 03/15/23 01:12 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Call of the Wild DLC and update dropped yesterday. 22 gigs, good grief. Lots of fixes and some new additions, like a new trophy lodge and now loadouts can be saved. Pretty cool.

The Hunter Power Pack DLC brings three new rifles.

-- .308 bolt action. The .308 semi-auto AR-10 style is one of my main rifles. Really good cartridge for deer hunting. So was looking forward to a bolt-action. I expected it to be even more accurate, and bolts are the essence of what I think a hunting rifle should be. But it is actually less accurate than the semi-auto. It's a minor thing, and I probably wouldn't be able to tell were attributes not assigned, but it's still disappointing that the new rifle isn't more precise. Still, it's a bolt action, so will have a place in my rotation. Lightweight at 3.5

-- .338 bolt action. Win Mag evidently, not Lapua, and that's OK. Lapua is too much cartridge for this game anyway. I have yet to try it, but it's a nice upgrade for me over the break-action .338 we already had. A mag-fed bolt-action is a better option for me. But I won't use it much. Heavy at carry weight of 5, but I reckon it should be. A heavy hitter.

-- 7mm bolt action. This is the one that I've taken a shine to. Due to my break-action aversion, I never did buy the 7mm we already had. But it's an intriguing cartridge since it's one of just two (.45-70) in the game that cover class 4-9. That's everything from fallow deer to bison. But even if it holds integrity for class 9 it's rather underpowered for such game in my view. This one is also light at 3.5 and hits hard, good penetration and expansion and it is the one from this DLC that I've taken to. Good gun.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4638359 - 11/13/23 01:09 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Way of the Hunter is having a 50% off sale at the mo. I decided to pick up the latest reserve, Tikamoon Plains (Africa). But I then noticed I already have it! Included in the season pass which I thought expired with Alaska, but nope, I've got Africa too.

When Africa was announced I was cool to it. I'd rather have 'everyday' sort of hunting locations, and more whitetails haha. But I love this new reserve. Top notch and a whole new set of animals to hunt. I definitely like this better than Call of the Wild's africa reserve.

I also picked up the Steyr rifle pack on sale. It has a .270 bolt and that's my new main rifle.

All in all I'm very happy with the new stuff.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4638986 - 11/28/23 02:37 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Picked up the Emerald Coast reserve for Call of the Wild in the Steam autumn sale. That had been the only reserve I didn't have, as the most recent. Not all that interested in kangaroo hunting, but the outback terrain is nicely done. There are three deer, sambar, red and axis, so works for me.

I've dropped about 270 hours in to this game so far. In all that time I've taken just one diamond trophy and zero great ones. And I am trying. I know the rating threshold to each tier, and have the perk to give a rating range when you spot it. But still they elude me. I did finally manage to add a second diamond (the first was a capercallie very early on) and this one was a bison. I even use a population scanner so I know which reserve has the best trophies in it. It doesn't say where they are, just if they are present. This is a great hook for me as the sheer rarity motivates me to keep playing.

Shooting in COTW doesn't quite match how it is done in WOTH. It's simplified in comparison, and made worse by the insane oscillation when looking through a scope. It's like naval gunnery, timing your salvo for the trough of the swell. It's an artificial difficulty. But I've gotten used to it. I obsess over my shooting percentage as I think I talked about earlier in this thread. I've now taken about 820 shots and maintain a percentage of 90%. I want every shot to be a good one, well-placed and I hate to miss. The scope sway makes this harder than it should be. One advantage of this game in comparison to WOTH is it is easier in COTW to reach a good firing position. It's rather like playing a submarine sim. Good shooting technique is necessary, but success is probably more a function of proper positioning and it's easier to find game and work yourself in to a proper spot before taking the shot in Call of the Wild.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4639037 - 11/29/23 02:01 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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It's not three deer species in Emerald Coast, but six. Sambar, red, axis, hog, fallow and javan rusa.

And it's not only 'outback' as I had suggested. Now that I've been around the map it is just as diverse as any reserve.


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#4639463 - 12/09/23 01:10 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Since picking up the Tikamoon Plains African reserve for Way of the Hunter I've spent quite a bit of time there. The Alaskan reserve introduced crossbows, and Tikamoon Plains brought compound bows. I think bows are probably better suited to other reserves, but the missions and achievements in Tikamoon are geared toward bow hunting and I've taken to it quite nicely indeed. Playing on Hunter or Ranger difficulty gives the highest animal awareness and senses. Combine this with the open terrain, long ranges and big animals and it is a stiff challenge.

The game has an achievement, called Bow Down Mister, for taking one of every species with a bow in Africa. Last night I took the final species, a hyena. Man, what a challenge this was. The first bow harvest was a male lion. I had spotted him lounging about from about 500 yards, then took about 45 minutes to stalk in on his position. He could have sauntered off or bolted at any time. But I got lucky, and went very, very slowly over the last 150 yards to reach a shooting position. Took the shot from 49 yards and it was a good one. Then spent the next couple of weeks hunting each one in turn.

On this difficulty (Hunter) the animals are highly alert, some say too alert, and getting within bow shot range was not easy. Many times I managed to spook the herd before getting in position, but I stuck with it and did it in the end. I used the Skye Lock-on with the 250 arrows and red dot sight. Just .1% of the players have done this, making it my most rare achievement. This might be more a reflection of how few have attempted it than how difficult it is. But then again, it isn't easy.


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#4639818 - 12/17/23 06:44 PM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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There's a sale right now for Call of the Wild, with the lowest pricing I've seen.

Call of the Wild @ Steam

Base game is three bucks. Reserves are two to five dollars. Weapon packs are about a dollar. ATV too.

I'd suggest getting the Seasoned Hunter bundle since it includes the ATV, tents, modern rifle pack and a couple of good DLC reserves. Then add other stuff ala carte. That bundle, plus another four reserves and every weapon pack you like could be covered with thirty dollars.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4639832 - 12/18/23 09:22 AM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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I see that things haven't changed much around here! Still somewhat alone In you´re extensive write ups Derek. Let´s see If I can add to It a bit and make you´re effort more worthwhile then It already Is...

Played a lot of CotW some years ago, lucky for me It got me through some rough times because the game Is so beautiful to look at, and for that reason among others It can be a walking simulator. I would just sink In to It´s Immersion and forget reality, It really helped me In the worst time of my life so CotH has a special place for me. I am also a outdoor guy who hikes a lot and does enjoy bushcrafting and anything related with the nature and It´s sports. I been tempted to fire It up again after all these years but I am afraid It would bring back some memories that I want to forget. Still, the game Is awesome and the Apex game engine Is second to none IMHO.

With that said, I have had WotH on my radar since It´s release but there´s one thing keeping me away. Have they fixed the need zones? I have only red about this so that´s why I ask. In CotW, If you abuse hunting In need zones, the herd will find another, or change their need zone habits, which Is not the case for WotH, or at least that´s how It was not to long ago from what I have red.

Someone (@Crane Hunter) mentioned that this would make for a great survival game, and I and a lot others agree that the Apex game engine would work great for that too. Their Is another game that I also enjoy and Is great for solo, and PVE which also uses the Apex engine, thus looks equally gorgeous, that Is Generation Zero. In this case you hunt down (or they hunt you) mechs, you also build bases, look for survivors and better gear etc. I have plenty of solo game hours on this one too. In some way, It reminds me of Tales from the Loop, which Is a RPG board game developed by Free League Publishing. They also did a TV series about the story with the same name, although I like the boardgame (RPG) better and have other games by Free League Publishing (Coriolis, Twilight 2000, and Forbidden Lands) which I play using the Foundry VTT app, or with my girlfriend and friends. This could be great for some of us here on SimHQ wink

Would write up more but have some arm pain that I need to keep tabs on, sorry.

Red

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#4640014 - 12/23/23 02:08 AM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks for convincing me to buy the game. Plus the bundle that DBond recommended.

I will try it out in the holiday. Think there will be some quiet days then.

Last edited by Wigean; 12/23/23 02:09 AM.

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#4640209 - 12/26/23 09:21 AM Re: Way of the Wild [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean
Thanks for convincing me to buy the game. Plus the bundle that DBond recommended.

I will try it out in the holiday. Think there will be some quiet days then.


Have fun!


Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, Sapphire Pulse AMD RX 6700 12GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB, 447GB SSD´s, Samsung G6 32" , Logitech G13, G502, Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Simagic Alpha Mini, and Formula Extreme FX, DC Simracing DC1 pedals, GT Omega ART cockpit, TrackIR 5.0.
AUDIO: Aiyima A07 Max, Topping E50 and L50 stack, Polk Audio Signature Elite ES20 , and Shennheiser HD 560s. DAP: Hiby R3, Hiby Seeds, and iBasso IT01, Sharp MD-MT 80H Minidisc.
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