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#4602634 - 06/30/22 07:54 AM Dud Engines  
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Bletchley Offline
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Bletchley  Offline
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Hi, has anything changed recently to reduce the chances of getting engine failure? I might just be very lucky, but I have now flown over 100 missions since adding Recon Wars (1915/16 all fronts, scouts & 2-seaters, British, French and German) and have had not a single dud engine. Anybody had a dud engine since adding Recon Wars update?

#4602641 - 06/30/22 09:55 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Polovski Offline
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Nothing changed for Recon Wars regarding that as far as I remember, but we did increase the time between failure generally some time ago. Maybe you have just been lucky - a problem with randomness unfortunately.

But yes would be good if others can report and we can see where it is...

Last edited by Polovski; 06/30/22 09:56 AM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4602646 - 06/30/22 12:20 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Polovski]  
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jerbear Offline
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Not seeing very much engine failure, not even the the Pfalz.

Jerbear

#4602648 - 06/30/22 12:51 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Stork100 Offline
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Stork100  Offline
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I had a couple of engine failures recently, v.1.29. Random failures seem to be working okay on my end.

#4602650 - 06/30/22 01:28 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Bletchley Offline
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Bletchley  Offline
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I have only been playing WOFF again this intensively since the Recon Wars were added, so it could be I have only just noticed the previous change, or I have just been very lucky! Thank you for your replies smile

#4602660 - 06/30/22 04:33 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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masterKamera Offline
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oh woe unto us, the engines are working... *sniffles* i so miss having an engine die while landing.. sooooo romantic.

#4602674 - 06/30/22 06:18 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Wodin Offline
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Wodin  Offline
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Liverpool
No engine failures here also.

#4602696 - 06/30/22 08:29 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
Joined: Mar 2011
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VonS Offline
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@OP - to (somewhat) increase "dudness" of engines back to WoFF UE/PE-era levels - scroll to the relevant section of the simulation.xml file in BH&H2 and replace with the following entries** (don't forget to make a backup of the stock simulation.xml file before doing this):

-----
<Failure weight="1.0" masterdisable="n">
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="60" damageAmount_pct="31" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="90" damageAmount_pct="70" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="120" damageAmount_pct="5" frequency_secs="111" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="160" damageAmount_pct="9" frequency_secs="35" dump="y"/>

<FailureRule SystemID="engine_two" average_hrs="60" damageAmount_pct="31" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_two" average_hrs="90" damageAmount_pct="70" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_two" average_hrs="120" damageAmount_pct="5" frequency_secs="114" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_two" average_hrs="160" damageAmount_pct="9" frequency_secs="35" dump="y"/>

<FailureRule SystemID="coolant_reservoir" average_hrs="70" damageAmount_pct="4" frequency_secs="32" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="coolant_reservoir" average_hrs="65" damageAmount_pct="50" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="oil_reservoir" average_hrs="120" damageAmount_pct="5" frequency_secs="50" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="oil_reservoir" average_hrs="65" damageAmount_pct="50" dump="y"/>
</Failure>
-----

If uncomfortable manually tweaking said simulation.xml file -- perhaps try loading my hardcore FrankenBHAH (ver. 1.15) or alternate-AI FrankenBHAH (ver. 1.16) mini-mods. and that complement the main FrankenBHAH enhancement package (ver. 1.1) -- those mini-mods. contain already modified simulation.xml files and are JSGME-friendly. For the relevant posts, see the appropriate link in my signature file below all of my posts on SimHQ.

** NOTE: keep in mind that random engine failure and other things are possibly hard-coded into WoFF -- therefore, changing the values in the simulation.xml file, as I have been doing, alters chances somewhat of already encoded random-engine failures, but may not necessarily give a full spectrum of changes (to use a computer analogy, we are at the "abstraction layer" when changing behaviors and whatnot via the simulation.xml file, but we are not at the "machine code" level, digging directly into the sim. and overhauling things). It might still be necessary that changes are implemented under-the-hood in BH&H2, for those wanting more engine dud-ness. For what it's worth, I am on ave. getting occasional engine problems with my modified simulation.xml files, but I haven't done any rigorous statistical analysis to see how much of an impact these changes in the simulation.xml file actually have.

Cheers all & happy dead-stick landings with unreliable engines,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 06/30/22 08:51 PM. Reason: Added more info. to post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4602723 - 07/01/22 05:03 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Bletchley Offline
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Thank you Von S smile

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to the question of how often engine failures occurred There is a thread on this in the Aerodrome forum from some way back (http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32783), though from memory I think OBD do model the differences between different engine types (so you are more likely to get engine failure with some types of aeroplane than others) and I wouldn't want to break that aspect of the feature. Pilot reports of 'dud' engines could range from engines simply not giving the full power expected (which could be due more to environmental factors or less than ideal maintenance in the field) to complete breakdown, but in WOFF I think it is modelled towards the 'catastrophic' end of that spectrum, when it occurs. I guess it would be nice to have a choice in workshop between the older setting (where failures occurred more frequently) and the newer setting - so I have added that to the wish list smile

#4602728 - 07/01/22 07:25 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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I believe there are additional failure rules for certain aircraft. I think the failure values in the simulation.xml file represent a "base" failure rate for all aircraft, but some aircraft have additional or modified failure rates (I'm not sure which) in that aircraft's .xdp file. For instance, here is the relevant section for the Se5a:

<Failure weight="1.0">
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="100" damageAmount_pct="31" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="120" damageAmount_pct="70" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="160" damageAmount_pct="5" frequency_secs="111" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="engine_one" average_hrs="190" damageAmount_pct="9" frequency_secs="35" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="coolant_reservoir" average_hrs="190" damageAmount_pct="4" frequency_secs="32" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="coolant_reservoir" average_hrs="140" damageAmount_pct="50" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="oil_reservoir" average_hrs="180" damageAmount_pct="5" frequency_secs="50" dump="y"/>
<FailureRule SystemID="oil_reservoir" average_hrs="160" damageAmount_pct="50" dump="y"/>
</Failure>

Quote
Pilot reports of 'dud' engines could range from engines simply not giving the full power expected (which could be due more to environmental factors or less than ideal maintenance in the field) to complete breakdown, but in WOFF I think it is modelled towards the 'catastrophic' end of that spectrum, when it occurs.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that WOFF models both complete failure and loss of power. For example, in the code above, the first two lines represent a sudden loss of 31% or 70% loss of power, respectively, while the third and fourth lines represent a gradual loss of power over a somewhat longer period of time.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4602740 - 07/01/22 12:41 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Polovski Offline
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Guys we could add much more detail once we finish the WOTR Expansion, we could add maintenance into the sim, keeping an eye on engine wear, engine repair, various skilled or not so skilled mechanics and a lot more if we get support. In WOFF engine failures for some particular aircraft, that were known to have iffy engines, is built-in. The problem with this much randomization is that 1 guy could say 'I never see any failures', and someone else could see 3 in a row and think it's terrible - even though it's just luck. Earlier settings were too much for some people, and reported they see them too often, but as it's random everyone will have a different experience. You can tweak as above though (backup before editing!).

Yes there's severe failure, and gradual failures in there too.

Things are tough for us to keep going, as they are for many others, especially now with all that is happening in the world. We need more people to become aware of WOFF and to purchase to help us.

Last edited by Polovski; 07/01/22 03:08 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4602767 - 07/01/22 06:16 PM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 382
Becker01 Offline
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Posts: 382
Yes @Pol!!

And IMHO we must be careful with the workshop. For example: The 2 settings "Bad weather affects operations: Yes/No" and "Bad weather cancels flights: On/Off/Optional" are very good, but not as easy as it seems! They are meaning (much) different complex consequences. For understanding it is not enough to fly a few missions. You have to deal with it! Threads here on SimHQ and on CA are showing it.
So, in my eyes, we must be careful in future, that we don't integrate too much different possibilities of setting-points, that are connected to each other. The result would be not "The WS is easier/or better" but "I don't understand the WS, it's confusing".


Sorry for my meaning!


P.S.: "Things are tough for us ... all that is happening in the world." I have nothing to add to this!

Greetings

Last edited by Becker01; 07/01/22 06:17 PM.
#4602778 - 07/02/22 01:00 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 737
epower Offline
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I'll repeat my post on this subject from October 2021. LInk to thread HERE

Originally Posted by epower
Engine failure? Oy! I'll give you engine failure. Early Hispanos on the S.E.5 and S.E.5a very temperamental. This from my DID character when he was with 56, flying 1-2 sorties per day, August- thru October, 1917.

7/31 - Engine Fire
8/12 - Engine sys failure
8/13 - Cooling failure
8/19 - Cooling failure
8/24 - Engine sys failure
9/12 - Cooling sys failure
9/24 - Oil line exploded on TO
9/27 - Engine sys failure
10/29 - Engine failure
10/30 - Cooling sys failure

I used Revell's, High in the Empty Blue as my narrative guide and that rate of failure tracks pretty closely with RL.

Last edited by epower; 07/02/22 01:01 AM.
#4602783 - 07/02/22 03:50 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Posts: 936
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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@Bletchley, thank you for that link to an excellent thread on 'The Aerodrome' and that I had somehow missed -- have now gone through that helpful thread thoroughly and, to use a very general rule of thumb, if we link max. time (in hrs.) between engine overhauls (for example, 50 hrs. for rotaries on average, 100 hrs. for inlines) -- it may be fine to lower those nos. further in the simulation.xml file (for time between various engine failures). Hope to find more time for some WoFFing in July and will perhaps modify that section of the simulation.xml file, and will test in some campaigns -- if I notice any interesting results I will post under the casual campaigns thread.

Cheers all,
Von S smile2


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4602784 - 07/02/22 04:47 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Bletchley Offline
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Bletchley  Offline
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Thanks everyone for the comments - I guess I may just be having a 100+ missions run of really good luck!

#4603005 - 07/06/22 07:59 AM Re: Dud Engines [Re: Bletchley]  
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Bletchley Offline
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Bletchley  Offline
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Von S, thank you for that simulation.xml data from UE/PE. I have substituted them and I think I prefer them, although I have not had time to compare the outcomes thoroughly. I have been thinking about this, and I have the germ of an engine mod that could be done quite quickly by several people working together, to avoid asking the overtasked OBD team to make changes that we can, possibly, do ourselves. The OBD team can then later look at this mod and use it, or not use it, or build on it if they have the inclination and time (as they sometimes have in the past). As it would be more appropriate to have this discussion in the mods section of this forum, I will start a thread there!


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