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#4514569 - 04/04/20 12:03 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Originally Posted by messyhead
Originally Posted by D4rthCoffee
Thanks for the invite, I'll clone from the master, and have a go at the build now.
Are you still using VS2008 for the building process, and is it something you would be willing to upgrade as well ?


It's still using Watcom for the build process, I don't think it was converted to fully build in VS2008. If that's something you could do, and it's better, then no problem. I've never used VS though, I use Eclipse just now.

Oh my, I think I would prefer to get it built in VS first tbh.
Are there any plans to make EECH multiplatform? Because that could impact the build process as well.

#4514570 - 04/04/20 12:09 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Originally Posted by messyhead
This is the release thread for the last major release. It says it's now using Direct3D9. I'm not sure if that means it's using DirectX 9 or just some libraries. You'll know more than I.

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4234430/eech-ver1-16-0-is-out


EDIT: I just noticed thealx's reply above.

So, it seems it's using DX9 2007, which is the last one to include DirectPlay. The 2009 version didn't have that anymore, as it has been deprecated.
So, moving forward, I would be focusing on replacing the direct play based functionality, so that we can move on to more recent versions of the DX, or away from it completely.

#4514572 - 04/04/20 12:26 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: D4rthCoffee]  
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Originally Posted by D4rthCoffee
Oh my, I think I would prefer to get it built in VS first tbh.
Are there any plans to make EECH multiplatform? Because that could impact the build process as well.

you can find MSVC project files in master repo. code compatibly check was made about 5 years ago last time (for VS2008 I think), so you probably will have some errors and a lot of warnings in compile process. if you think it's crucial - we can switch to VS as well.

Last edited by thealx; 04/04/20 12:38 PM.
#4514589 - 04/04/20 02:06 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
Originally Posted by D4rthCoffee
Oh my, I think I would prefer to get it built in VS first tbh.
Are there any plans to make EECH multiplatform? Because that could impact the build process as well.

you can find MSVC project files in master repo. code compatibly check was made about 5 years ago last time (for VS2008 I think), so you probably will have some errors and a lot of warnings in compile process. if you think it's crucial - we can switch to VS as well.


The switching to VS would probably need to be majority's decision, but If everyone is fine with that, I can make it work with VS 2019 Community before making any other changes. The compiler in VS2019 is really good, and we can benefit from a lot of code optimisations too.

Also, do we have a dedicated thread or discussion group for code discussions and such as above, or do we do it here ? In the past there was mailiing list but I believe it's no more.
We could always create a Google group for this.

Cheers

#4514595 - 04/04/20 02:33 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
...

FYI, Ogre migration was started years ago - basic rendering function works but project is frozen at the moment. All code available in master branch inside OGREEE definition check.



Do you know who did the Ogre conversion work? Is the Ogre conversion still something we want to push on with ?

#4514599 - 04/04/20 02:51 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Firebird (casm in commits author) initiated this project. you can get some info here https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4383394/ogreee-once-again#Post4383394
We agreed that he will make most rendering functionality, and I will help with minor stuff like UI, particles and lighting, but it never happens for several reasons. I haven't contacted him for years so can' t say that he made any progress with it.
So answer on your question depends on is he still planning to finish it or not. No one else around have Ogre knowledge to finish anyway.

#4514613 - 04/04/20 03:33 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
Firebird (casm in commits author) initiated this project. you can get some info here https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4383394/ogreee-once-again#Post4383394
We agreed that he will make most rendering functionality, and I will help with minor stuff like UI, particles and lighting, but it never happens for several reasons. I haven't contacted him for years so can' t say that he made any progress with it.
So answer on your question depends on is he still planning to finish it or not. No one else around have Ogre knowledge to finish anyway.

Thanks, I read the thread, but there doesn't seem to be any follow up from the demo.
OK, I will not bother with it for now. I wonder how did learning of Ogre3D go for @messyhead biggrin ?
I spent some time with Ogre3D some 10 years ago, but could never get used to it's pipeline. It's used to be very hard to bend it to anything non-standard, and the its default approach of material files and custom made shader language was only making it worse. I'm not saying Ogre3D is bad engine in any way, but it's VERY different than anything else on the market.

#4514626 - 04/04/20 04:09 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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I never got anywhere with Ogre learning, or DX for that matter.

I don't mind if it's converted to VS. It's really just thealx and I that are active devs just Now. Javelin was around, but haven't heard from him in a while, and I think he might have mentioned VS, or maybe someone else. Actually, GlynD recently got access.

Anyway, I think if converting to VS will make dev easier, then I'm OK with that. As long as the Ide remains free that we need to use.

There is a code diacussion thread linked below, and we also have a discord channel. I could create a code discussion group in it, if you want to use that?

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4195250/eech-source-code-discussion#Post4195250

#4549692 - 12/25/20 02:07 AM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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The Falcon 4 BMS community have just upgraded their sim to dx11. If you wanted to move this forward and haven't otherwise made progress, you could perhaps ask over there for starting points.

#4555501 - 02/10/21 02:01 AM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Source code is now public. See 1st post.

#4555927 - 02/13/21 07:43 AM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
I Now I see some discussions about Hind mod (1.15.4 test version) which can not appear in public, as it may put me in danger.


Yikes


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4555938 - 02/13/21 01:14 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: Reticuli]  
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Originally Posted by Reticuli
Originally Posted by thealx
I Now I see some discussions about Hind mod (1.15.4 test version) which can not appear in public, as it may put me in danger.


Yikes


Yeah, that's all now been removed from the public source, unfortunately. The original Hind is still there.

#4587679 - 12/23/21 01:43 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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If I remember correctly, it was 2008 when I tried to convert EECH to "not 1999 year mostly software" renderer first, and Ogre3D was the only free one at that time.

Currently there are some more (like UE4), but...

The "ogreee" calls I put into eech sources were not renderer-dependent at all. The ogreee renderer wrapper may use any renderer, including completely manual/direct one.

I see now that the "object/scenes/terrain" conversion part of ogreee wrapper (like ogre_geometry.cpp) should not be a part of wrapper itself, the conversion had to be done with a separate set of tools. Maybe it allowed to use different models at that time. That's the answer to "It's used to be very hard to bend it to anything non-standard".

And when conversion of object/scenes/terrain is not a problem, the main ogreee calls remain are "add/destroy scene (aka game object)" and "apply keyframe or manual animation to an object of a scene (aka part of game object)". And these calls are not renderer-dependent generally. But as far as I know UE4 supports skeleton animation only, and does not support keyframe or object one.

I tried to learn UE4 and found that it's much more complicated than Ogre3D and require a completely different approach. I could not find a tutorial of "how to convert your game to use UE4", the only ones I found was "how to create a moving skeleton figure move over 100x100 meters terrain with a ten monsters of the same kind". It's not what we have in EECH - hundred thousands of square kilometers and hundreds of units of tens sorts.

As I said previously (10 years ago?) switching to DX11 gives nothing. Vulkan won't help either. The renderer, the models, the textures, the shaders, etc. must be a completely separate module, created with ideas of 201x, not ones of 199x. Even It can be a separate 64-bit process. The game logic must communicate with it via a narrow interface, and ogreee.h is a good example of it.

Personally I tried to use Ogre3D 2.0, but it won't help much. The main problem is to have modern models. The ees/eeo models look good but they are not good for modern renderers (a whole model should have a single texture aka skin, for example, there are more).
Yet another problem is my ignorance. Sometimes I just don't understand "how it's done in 1999 engine", and it stops me from understanding "how to make it in newer renderer". That's with texturing of terrain, for example.
And of course I was and am too lazy to break a head with a brick wall to solve all of those problems alone.

I have zero experience in commercial game or 3D rendering programming. I cannot say "this it a good renderer, and we should use it that way" or "I can create the best renderer ever - both powerful and simple/easy to use". I don't understand what are requirements for a good model, I didn't create models for DCS or WT. I know nothing and I don't know where to get the knowledge.

EECH was fun when I played it. It was a next leap over Comanche 3. It was fun to destroy hundreds of american vessels in a row, it gave me fun and rest. But later, adding "realism", with rockets flying "any direction but not strait", with Vikhrs missing, it stopped being fun and rest. We had ED's Ka-50 with 300 pages manual for that. I'm not a fan of online, thus WT is not my option either. I'm glad I had EECH at its apex. Maybe my mind is too old and rusty. I just see no way and see noone sees one.

#4587695 - 12/23/21 04:41 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: D4rthCoffee]  
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Originally Posted by D4rthCoffee
Recently I was mostly focused on UE4 development


Let's assume we use UE4 in EECH. Is there a way to implement the following in UE4?

Terrain
Terrain consists of 2x2 km squares. Number of squares may be several hundreds.
Each square consists of 3D objects (it's not a height map).
Map uses about 30 textures. Some of them (sea ones) are animated. Each 3D object uses any of those, and a noise map additionally.
Each square have a bunch of trees. Trees are similar but their heights differ. (Instancing will help).
For each plain coordinate it's required to calculate a collision height.
It's good to have at least 10 kilometers viewing distance with at least 90 degrees FOV.

Scenes aka game objects
Each scene is a multinode tree of subobjects (from one to several dozens).
Each subobject is a set of of polygons or lines having some surface information (texture, luminosity texture, smoothing, transparency, etc.).
The subobjects are gathered in the tree via parent-children relationship using a transformation matrix, transparency and visibility flag.
Some subobjects are labeled. Different subobjects may have the same label, and the order of them are crucial. For example, gunship has 6 pylons, each pylon has its own set of weapons (outer ones - empty or stingers, others - empty, gun pod, rockets, missiles, etc)., each weapon has its elements (rocket or missile). The missile of some weapon (hellfires rack) of some pylon should not be interfered with rocket of a different weapon (rocket pod) or some other pylon.
Transformation matrix, transparency and visibility flag of a labeled object may be changed by game logic manually or by an associated key animation.
Some texture of polygons/lines may be modified by game logic (for example, each gunship has its own tail number).
Subobjects are LODed.
It's nice to have a hundred of different scenes visible (most of them - not with the best LOD) at once.

What are requirements to terrain and scenes to make them renderable via UE4?

The required interface logic for scenes can be seen in ogre\cube\cube.cpp set_scene() and frame().

#4587696 - 12/23/21 05:10 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Hello Firebird, if you want, can you take a look at Ignarik's posts below? He needs help adding ATAKA missile in KA52 weaponry, thanks.

#4587715 - 12/23/21 07:10 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Injections into a wooden leg?

#4587749 - 12/24/21 07:30 AM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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Thanks a lot Firebird, happy holidays.

#4587759 - 12/24/21 11:54 AM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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I don't know how it's being done currently. To hire someone to make UE4 wrapper dll with the functionality described above?

Maybe we can go from another side? Does anyone know UE4-compatible terrain 300x300 kilometers? Some site with it? Tens of "movable" UE4-compatible objects - helicopters, tanks, planes with rotating wheels, blades, with moving doors, etc? Again, some site with free _movable_ models?

Maybe someone knows how to edit a model from a modern UE4 game (again, not a body)?

#4602612 - 06/29/22 03:04 PM Re: EECH Source Code Access - now Public [Re: messyhead]  
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I came across this thread while doing my own research for tracking down New World IP, LLC.

I think I found one variation in what's reported above. Empire Interactive went into receivership, which was managed by KPMG Restructuring. Empire's intellectual property rights were then sold to New World IP, LLC, which is based in the US. New World IP, LLC has licensed the IP, on an exclusive basis, to Zoo Publishing, Inc. Zoo then went down a complex business path before folding.

But the IP ownership path down Zoo Publishing is mostly not relevant. If the rights were licensed to Zoo, even if that entire business line folded, rights would still be held by New World IP.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326652/000114420409024649/v148325_ex99-1.htm

I haven't managed to track New World IP past the aforementioned business in Delaware, except to say all the associated trademarks appear to have expired.

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