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#4602209 - 06/22/22 11:18 AM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project ***** [Re: Viper1970]  
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A pic of one grip at my center base in the pit. The grip is still unfinished (socket still only primed, but color is relatively near 😅).

The spring in front is adjustable to compensate the weight of the different grips. But I'm also thinking about adding some rim balancing weights, the ones that used on aluminium rims, inside the printed and the light grips, to match the weights a bit better. The paddle switch is on the jet extension. There also exist a helo extension, which is only a kind of a L-shaped tube like extension.

The frames arround the mechanics, which limit the travel of the stick can be easily changed with different inlays (magnetic snap in). There are ones with a smaller square hole, ones with a round hole and also two with a rounded slot. Those with the slot are for the yoke extension to prevent it from doing the "roll" movement. If the yoke is attached, there will be also to large dampers mounted with wing-nuts, to smooth out the pitch movement.

Attached Files IMAG0964.jpgIMAG0965.jpg

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#4602244 - 06/22/22 11:37 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Not much happend at the F-15 throttle today. Only had some time in the evening to work on it. I printed a new antenna wheel, added a plate with a notch to have a center detent and made some frames for the slew and the front POV.

Nothing reworked or sanded yet and the square frame doesn't fit in the hole at the moment (it's much to high on that pic 😅). I have to file this out a bit, so that the square-frame directly sits on top of the surface of the handle. I'm really not satisfied with the position of the wheel, but there is no other way to fit it in the warthog grip.

I also made a new DMS switch for the F-16 stick (correct version now). I will post a pic of the stick when ready.

Attached Files IMAG0966.jpgIMAG0967.jpg

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#4602267 - 06/23/22 12:39 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Just fiddling arround with the front hat and the slew. I printed new parts here and I'm using a spider-web-hat from an old throttle. Don't know anymore if it's from a Suncom SFS or a TM TQS. Just grabbed it out of my button, hat and switch caps box. 😅

Sadly the frames of the old Suncom SFS weren't useable, cause of the size for the slew's and the POV's mechanics, so I had to print them.

... and the new DMS switch on the F-16 stick. smile

Attached Files IMAG0968.jpgIMAG0970.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/23/22 02:01 PM.

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#4602294 - 06/23/22 10:35 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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The whole F-15E throttle project is far more complex than first thought. Thanks to a colleague who is an F-15 professional, I now know how the throttle works. The finger lifts have a crucial role in the startup. I need two additional switches integrated in the lifts, which will not be easy.

In addition, the functions are then no longer sufficient. Therefore I had to discard the 5way hat on the side (MIC), which would have allowed additional functions and replace it with the original 3way slide switch. This leaves three functions open, two of which I can use for the finger lifts, if I can find a solution for the integrated switches.

At the moment the thing looks like this. The front hat and the slew are also done now, but the original slew is such a ..... I will later replace it (and also on my other throttles) with the Deltasim slew solution. But right now I'm totally broke and 4 slews for all my Warthog throttles would be 252€ plus shipping, so about as much as another Warthog throttle. That will have to wait for now. 😅

Attached Files IMAG0973.jpg

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#4602317 - 06/24/22 12:05 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Originally Posted by Viper1970
But right now I'm totally broke and 4 slews for all my Warthog throttles would be 252€ plus shipping, so about as much as another Warthog throttle. That will have to wait for now. 😅


What about this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RKJXV1220001?qs=hqbSiJllDNNfV%252B28uKztxA%3D%3D


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4602332 - 06/24/22 04:29 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Quote
What about this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RKJXV1220001?qs=hqbSiJllDNNfV%252B28uKztxA%3D%3D


Thanks for the advice! 👍

I have a bunch of those "thumbstick-gimbals", but the problem is that the Warthog uses a special protocol to comunicate with this little eraser-head. You can not attach a thumbstick to it directly, You need a curcuit with a programmed IC on it. Deltasim has done this.



The F-15E throttle grips with all inputs integrated. Now all the wiring has to be done and after this the whole filler, prime and paint work.

I used very tiny stop micro-switches to have the necessary function of the finger-lifts for the engine startup sequence. It's not the nicest, clean looking solution, but the only one that was possible with my finger-lifts.

As it seems that the F-15 has no real detent for the AB, I will use the Warthogs original detent and file it down for the AB, so that you can easily push it in, but there is still a feedback before you go into it. The cut-off detent will be completely removed and here the lifts have to be activated to reach this section. For the engine startup you have to shortly pull the lift to start the corresponding engine.

Many thanks to the really nice guy that helped me a lot with the functions of the trottle! 👍

Attached Files IMAG0976.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/24/22 04:31 PM.

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#4602335 - 06/24/22 05:09 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Originally Posted by Viper1970
Quote
What about this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RKJXV1220001?qs=hqbSiJllDNNfV%252B28uKztxA%3D%3D


Thanks for the advice! 👍

I have a bunch of those "thumbstick-gimbals", but the problem is that the Warthog uses a special protocol to comunicate with this little eraser-head. You can not attach a thumbstick to it directly, You need a curcuit with a programmed IC on it. Deltasim has done this.


Ah. I was thinking you were going the Arduino / MMJoy or similar "roll your own" path.


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#4602343 - 06/24/22 06:21 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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No, all my HOTAS have TM electronics, cause I want to stay fully compatible with TARGET scripts. I know many guys don't like them and prefer simple Direct Input, but it can be really useful to use TARGET for more complex functions, to replicate the originals.

I often read about, "I can not assign the function to my HOTAS like it should..." and that's the case where TARGET is really useful.

I know there are programs like Joystick Gremlin, but you always have the original DX function underneath the programmed ones, or you must install a filter driver. This makes also a lot of trouble and does not always work like it should.

Last edited by Viper1970; 06/24/22 06:23 PM.

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#4602357 - 06/24/22 11:54 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Did a quick test of the electronics and things work like they should. At the F-15 throttle not so much changed.

The 5way POV is splited now. Forward and backward is the MIC switch, up and down are the fingerlifts left and right. The friction pot is used for the antenna wheel. The rest is nearly like the original switches, with the exception that I changed the china hat and the boat switch mechanics, to match the real F-15 grip (not the caps). The boat switch is now momentary and the china is normal. The CMD switch changed to momentary in both directions (left outside toggle switch).

The speedbrake in the F-15 has no momantary push-back-function, but I will leave this as it was on the original Warthog throttle. I prefer a momentary function for a quick use of the speedbrake. Originally this is a normal switch in both directions. Back activates the brake, center holds the brake and forward retracts the brake.

Attached Files F-15E throttle layout.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/25/22 12:07 AM.

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#4602378 - 06/25/22 03:15 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Hi Viper,

I watched a clip on YouTube yesterday and it was about smoothing out your 3D prints.

They were using epoxy resin brushed on lightly and then sanded when hard. Seemed to be very effiective and works on PLA.

Think I'll give it a try on the Dalek dome (printed at 0.28mm layer height for speed) and see how that goes.

Have you possibly tried this in the past ?

Cheers,

Andy


Andy's simpit: http://www.simpit.me.uk
#4602380 - 06/25/22 04:48 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Hi Andy,

I've also seen some Videos about this now. Sadly to late banghead

I have already made most of my HOTAS parts. Had saved me a lot of fillering.

I have tested it on a small part now and it works like a charme! A few minutes in the sun and it is relatively cured. But take care not to leave it too long in the sun, cause of the PLA which begins to soften and then warps. The parts also become really hard after treatment.

Last edited by Viper1970; 06/25/22 04:50 PM.

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#4602382 - 06/25/22 05:39 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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The first detent part prototype for the F-15 and F/A-18 throttles, that works with my fingerlifts. I have also thought about making the notch screwable and adjustable. Must fiddle arround a bit with that. This thing will be glued on top of the original cover. It fits perfect.

The notch is for cut-off not for the burner. AB will stay original, but the nose sanded down to be able to push it in without lifting the throttle.

The fingerlifts are springloaded. There is a little ball-pen spring inside those cabinet-locks.

Attached Files IMAG0977.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/25/22 05:42 PM.

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#4602427 - 06/26/22 07:38 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Check this out - it's a very interesting method for smoothing FDM printed models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj6PETgwqgY

g.


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http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - the Me-109F/X Project
#4602507 - 06/27/22 09:57 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Thanks! that's a good tip!! thumbsup


Side by side - A-10C and F-15E 🙂.

Still some things missing at the F-15 throttle like the rudder trim switch. There must be an adapter printed for the hole to integrate the normal momentary 3way switch 90° rotated. Electronically all is working fine, I have already tested this. The A-10 throttle will also be slightly modified, like removing the handle-lock, already changed the max throttle position a bit backwards, so that the throttle isn't lying on the base at max power anymore.

There is now a new detent at the max position on both throttles (did the same for the 15s throttle). This is a bit tricky, cause if not enough travel is available the Warthog calibration program disables the fictitious cut-off buttons 29 and 30 on the throttle axis.

After fitting the rudder-switch both throttles will be partially disassembled again, some parts sanded and fillered and after that also painted satin black like the sticks. The next throttle will be the one of the F/A-18.

P.S: Button and switch colors at the 15's throttle aren't also right yet, there will change a lot.

Attached Files IMAG0980.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/27/22 09:59 PM.

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#4602539 - 06/28/22 01:54 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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Ok, managed to get all working perfectly at the F-15E throttle.

The antenna wheel rotates only arround 30° up and down (60° completely), cause I had to make a detent inside the wheel, which limits it to this range. TM used a joystick pot for the friction lever which although it rotates 270° only has a contact area of about 60°. But this isn't bad at all, cause you can easily grab the wheel with your little finger, putting him arround the wheel and very precisely control the axis. Nyogel makes it even much nicer to move. 😅

I don't made a springloaded mechanism to return to center, like the Hornet throttle will have, but made a center detent. I think both kind of antenna elevation (F/A-18 like or F-16 like) should be controlable with this wheel, cause of the relatively short travel and the center detent. Don't know how the radar in the Eagle works, cause I have not read the whole documents I own about it until now. Sometimes such details are also not very clearly descripted. It's already a luck if it's descripted if a switch is momentary or not, most of the time only the direction and the function is descripted.

The only thing that still is a pain, is the slew control. This little thing is such a s.... and a total faulty design. It's not imprecise at all, I'm really thinking it's even more precise as a thumbstick, but you can't control it the right way. It has to be moved (slided) to the corners, not tilted like a ministick or even the old eraser head of the old TM gameport TQS, which was nothing more as a laptop keyboard ministick. But this can't be done without a good amount of pressure on this little cursor, which then automatically activates the push button, and this is something you don't want to have.

I'm still fiddling arround a solution for this, but also I'm having a lot of ideas most of the time, here I'm totally lost at the moment. But 262€ just for the slew control of all my Warthog based throttle is quite a statement. Nevertheless, it looks like there is no other option left in the end.

Last edited by Viper1970; 06/28/22 01:56 PM.

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#4602546 - 06/28/22 03:19 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
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So, as I'm often asked which switches I use, here are some examples and links of the things I use. I also made many of them by myself with TinkerCAD or made templates for the buyable parts for my constructions

It's really easy to do some frames, mounts or even Switch/POV-caps with TinkerCAD. I also haven't finished all of them now, but making a "replika" of a POV hat for example is only half an hour of work in TC. I mostly do this short before I assemble a HOTAS and print those parts so to speak "just in time". 😅 Also the print of them does not take more than a few minutes.

Here are some links to Thingiverse for useable POV's. Many of them are instantly useable, some must be reworked or created new if they doesn't fit the original.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3641494

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3452944

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4543158

Thank's to the guys who made this awesome work! 👍



And here are some pics of the buttons and POV's I use in many controls, which can be bought on Amazon, Ebay or anywhere else. Others also used and some of them are in the 3D drawings that follow, but I have no time at the moment to find all those somewhere at the web. I have a really huge collection of buttons, switches, POV's and also old HOTAS parts I can reuse for my projects. To find all those parts for sale at the web would take weeks, if they are even available. Sometimes a little own effort is required to finish my HOTAS. They where never meant to be used anywhere else as in my own project. 😅

In the 3D schematics ther is also my dual-stage-trigger mechanism. It's the little button with the 6x6 microswitch on top. I use lacquered wires for connecting the microswitch, cause they are very thin and easy to store if there is not much room left inside a grip. The little frame has to be printed and pressed or glued on top of the buttons button. 🤣 Believe it or not but I mostly print those little frames really with my FDM printer and the are stable. I have a resin printer, but I'm often to lazy to use it cause of the whole cleaning after prints. ☺️

The switch caps are used on top of the small switches, to have a bigger switch. I also print them often with my FDM an rework them (sanding) in my lath, sticked on top of an old drill-bit. Sometimes they are a bit tricky to put at the switch, cause you must do this upside down if you use superglue, to prevent it from bonding the switch-mechanics. They are small enough to go through the diameter of the switch hole. The bigger ones must be destroyed if a switch breaks and must be replaced, but a spare part is printed within minutes.

Attached Files Small-Buttons.jpgMedium-Buttons.jpg5way Switch.jpgSwitch-Examples.jpgButtons Overview.jpgSwitches&Caps.jpgThumbstick Frame.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/28/22 07:34 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4602561 - 06/28/22 07:51 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
I reverted the slew on the 15's throttle back to original, cause with the spider-web-hat there was no way to use it in any useable way. I made the mistake and changed it before I even used the Warthog at any time (yes I bought them and didn't use them until now - did only a very short test if all is running a year ago or so ☺️).

I thought it has the same mechanism like the old eraser head on the TQS, which was more like a mini forcesensing stick, tilting and transfering the pressure to a pressure sensitive resistor-plate. But this thing slides over a hallsensor and it has a little magnet inside. The higher the cursor is, the worse this sliding works. You can easily test the hallsensor with another magnet, which you move over the backside of this little PCB. It let's the cursor move.

I did this cause I thought of an ball gimbal with a springloaded center mechanism and a magnet on the inside, which moves over this little PCB and has the POV-hat on the other side. But how to make the button working? So I reverted all to original state and only added the squared frame arround the slew, which the F-15 throttle has. It looks 🤮 now, but it's working at least. I will save some money and buy the Deltasim solution for all throttles later.

Last edited by Viper1970; 06/28/22 07:54 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4602604 - 06/29/22 12:58 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
F-15 throttle completely done, except the whole paint works. Still ugly 😅, but this will change. I changed the autopilot 3way to an 3way momentary, rotated 90° for the rudder trim switch, the 15 has. I also changed the flaps switch with a detent to only two functions now (up/down) and made a new switch cap similar to the 15's flap switch. The fingerlifts have microswitches for being able to start the engines of the Eagle correctly.

I cutted those annoying noses in the base-plate arround the flaps switch, to be able to easily remove and add this plate at anytime. Both plates will get a completely new lettering, but won't have the backlightning after that again. I will do my illumination in the pit with LED-stripes in the side-walls that beam the consoles from the top. I will use a green, a white and one UV stripe for this. The UV stripe will make the white lettering appear somewhat bright, so the consoles and the throttles will look a little more uniform and it is less work to make the lettering for them.

Attached Files IMAG0982.jpgIMAG0983.jpgIMAG0984.jpgIMAG0985.jpg
Last edited by Viper1970; 06/29/22 01:14 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4602624 - 06/29/22 10:04 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
Member
Viper1970  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
Cause I had not much desire today to disassemble the 15's throttle again for the whole paint work (did this so many times the last days to test the mechanics, the functions and so on), I already startet with the new project, the F/A-18 throttle.

I will do a E-model version, cause it has a few more functions available. There is enough I can use from the WH, and why should I leave features unused when the newer model has more? Optical they are nearly identical, with exception of the CMS hat. I do the same with the F-14 throttle and make the one of the D-version. It's also useable with the A and the B-models, but if some day .... I have already the right throttle and also the stick for the Super Tomcat. 😅

Attached Files IMAG0987.jpg

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4602647 - 06/30/22 12:33 PM Re: AH-64D DIY Controls & new pit project [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Viper1970 Offline
Member
Viper1970  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,179
Bavaria, near Munich
First steps at the new "Hornhog" 😅 Still a huge bunch of work is missing, like adding the fingerlifts and their mechanics and also of course the whole wiring has to be done.

I cutted the original handles off an put my printed Hornet grips on it. Fits perfectly! Nothing glued with epoxy yet. Finally the handle levers will still be demountable, so that you can reach the wires inside. Only difference is, that the inner handle-cover is shorter now. In the end all will be demountable like it's on the original Warthog, with the only difference of an other grip design now. The F-14 grips on the last WH will be attached the same way.

Attached Files IMAG0988.jpgIMAG0989.jpgIMAG0990.jpgIMAG0991.jpg

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
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