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#4600515 - 05/28/22 11:29 PM bogged down  
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carrick58 Offline
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carrick58  Offline
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J.P. O'Hara
Col, USA
B Company, 2nd Battalion
CCR, 4th Armor. 1944


Reported enemy MG's and AFV at the Village Crossroads. Deployed my 2 Platoons of Sherman's and supporting TD's Fan wise an headed into the fields, 3 M-4's Bogged down in the snow along with AFV's then fire from a Stg Got him by outflanking only to be hit by A PZ V Tank fire erupted
lost another TD and a Sherman before brewing him up. My following TD Bogged down so I called off the attack. We took the Village and watched as a PZ V and a armored Car, 2 AFV's plus a Infn of Inf disappeared in the tree line.

Attached Files CM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 18-33-34-06.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 18-45-56-02.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 18-47-12-17.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 18-46-12-10.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 19-00-06-31.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 19-00-58-17.jpgCM Final Blitzkrieg 2022-05-27 19-11-22-82.jpg
Last edited by carrick58; 05/28/22 11:33 PM.
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#4600817 - 06/01/22 11:14 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Nice report! Do you find that enemies advance/retreat in a convincing way?


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4600937 - 06/03/22 12:32 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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DBond Offline
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Carrick may have a different view, but retreat/withdrawal is not a thing for the AI, unless the unit's been mauled and is looking for an exit.. The AI is probably the worst part of single player combat in Combat Mission (aside from the campaign system perhaps)

The AI isn't really AI at all. There's little 'intelligence'. The AI is scripted. Muddling the assessment is the TacAI, which is what controls the individual units' reactions to incoming fire, or a new target coming in to view. As such, there's no capability in the game for the AI to think on the fly in a tactical sense, to react or exploit, to withdraw or shift combat weight to the weak point in the line. It simply follows the script the designer intended. The AI as a result is pretty poor in the attack. You can see it especially in quick battles, but also campaign missions that the attacking AI just moves to it's next assigned spot. Faster units get out in front, slow units lag behind. No co-ordination or attempt to combine arms. So you wipe out the half-tracks and armored cars first since they're the fastest. Then come the mid-speed tanks. And finally the infantry and support weapons which have been stripped of their vehicle support just because of the speed discrepancy.

On defense they put up a much better fight of course, but they don't have to move, just shoot. But even here there's no attempt to shore up weak spots, keep a reserve or exploit success.

I've been a big Combat Mission fan since the CMBO demo, and I'm still active on Battlefront's boards. But the formula has become stale for me, the series need a re-think, and for me, especially needs a new campaign system and proper AI that can react to unfolding events on the battlefield.

Battlefront are too focused on the minutia, things like orders of battle and uniform pockets. I think they need to focus on the content, both in terms of the campaign system and how players access new content. The editor is archaic and hampers designers. Quick Battles are limited. I want to see a campaign generator so that players can have endless content well-suited to them. What we have now is barely passable in 2022.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4601003 - 06/03/22 11:23 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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I see. Thanks for the reply. I have the older versions (Beyond Overlord and whatnot) and was considering grabbing one of the newer modules, but that write up certainly gives me pause!


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4601008 - 06/04/22 12:06 AM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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DBond Offline
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The truth is you'll be on the attack in a high percentage of your missions. The AI limitations show, but not enough to make that the reason not to get one of the titles. And there are demos too for most or all? of the CMx2 games (anything from Shock Force 1 and later) So you can give it a test drive first, although the demos aren't updated to the latest engine I don't think.

And while I hit on all my biggest complaints in that last post, I'd be remiss if I didn't balance that out with what I think is great about Combat Mission, because despite it's faults I wouldn't want you to skip it on my account. I've played it a lot because there's no tactical simulator quite like it. It's fallen behind the times in my view and I've lost enthusiasm and can only hope they take a new direction.

Combat Missions excels, in my view, with ballistics, spotting and C2 (Command and Control). If your experience with CM is only in the CMx1 games, like Beyond Overlord, you'll notice straight away the change in spotting, from what was called 'borg' spotting, to relative spotting. So no longer does the scout team way over here that gets a spot on one of your units instantly make the tank way over there spot it too, if you see what I mean. Now spotting is relative for each unit and it's a big step forward. But it was in 2010 when we made this move. Sorry, positives!

I mention C2 and it's one of the few games of this sort that I think really gets it right. On-call times are way too long for the compressed time allotment in most missions, but in most every other way, the way C2 is handled is nearly spot on for me. From shared spotting, to radio network, to the effectiveness and morale of the combat units it's really nicely done in my opinion. If Battlefront would just de-couple on-call times from difficulty setting it wouldn't be a problem. But for players that prefer Iron, it's a pain is the ass. If battles lasted six hours then a twenty-minute wait for your support would be workable. But with an hour on the clock it's out of scale.

You can play CM in real time, and god bless 'em. But WEGO is brilliant. I love this system and it just works so well. Sixty-second bursts are perfect. Yeah, the WEGO system is brilliant and elevates Combat Mission on it's own. It's like turn based with more jeopardy, and I like it.

Combat Mission is a great tactical game, I think the best of it's sort. Other players aren't all that likely to share my views on the campaign system. Some players only play single scenarios or PBEM or whatever. There's a ton of good gaming to be had here, and I reckon my malaise is the result of thousands of hours down the years. If you've not done the same you'll not be jaded and it's well worth your time. The content for each title is uneven, so which one you settle on could be a factor. My standard advice is to just pick the title that covers whichever theater you are most interested in. But aside from that I recommend Normandy for WW2 and Shock Force 2 for modern for a player who can't decide which one to buy. These have the most content, campaigns and otherwise, but that wouldn't offset disinterest in the combat covered.

I'm a fan of Red Thunder too, but we're still waiting for the early East Front and RT's out nearly ten years now.

I'd guess Carrick is playing Final Blitzkreig here?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4601057 - 06/04/22 10:02 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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carrick58 Offline
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Mr Rawlings

D Bond said it all and I am in-full agreement Final Blitzkrieg ' the one I am playing here, is fun with a lot going for it, but I hear Shock Force 2 id much more absorbing.

#4601063 - 06/04/22 10:52 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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DBond Offline
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Shock Force I recommend for the content. And I should add that by 'content' I'm not really speaking about what comes with the game, but what's available from the community. What comes with the games is a pittance, especially for players like me that rarely play anything other than campaigns. So I rely on user-authored campaigns and SF2 has more than most titles. These are a bit uneven too, and not all will be found to taste so you need to wade through them to find the ones most well-suited. Normandy is great because it's the base game plus the add-on modules and as a result has more content included.

I have fun with Shock Force because it's so dissimilar to the WW2 stuff that I usually play. A complete refresh in terms of units, OPFOR, weapons systems and tactical approach. But it's also quite one-sided. I played through the official campaign called Task Force Thunder and the casualty totals after all of those missions were incredibly one-sided. Some missions I took none at all. But it's still great Combat Mission gameplay, as long as you're OK with the asymmetry. Abrams against insurgency and yeah, what else would we expect right? Black Sea on the other hand is much more well-matched, but also the most lethal battlefield in the series. One of the reasons that WW2 titles appeal to me, and especially the early-war titles that we have never gotten, is that the lower the lethality of the weapons, the more tactical the gameplay. We very much need this I think and it's one of the things that has grown my dissatisfaction with Battlefront's approach and development roadmap. We did not need 1945 east front when we had 1944 east front. I mean come on. 1941 and 1942 are what is needed -- in my view, mind -- and even 1943 for Kursk and Kharkov and this summer of battles, but the dev team is so small and the drip so slow that I don't think I'll ever see it. The focus is wrong, as I see it.

Battlefront don't make missions, even what comes with the games is user-made. It's why I think a campaign generator is so desperately needed, but I rarely see anyone making the same case on their boards. So maybe it's just me. The problem is until there is proper AI, a campaign generator cannot work in all probability as AI relies on scripts, and a limitation I don't think could be overcome for computer-generated missions. Just look at quick battles.

I have a lot of complaints it's true, but that's because I like it and I've played the hell out of it and see things that need improvement. Instead we get new titles and modules while the game remains unchanged in any significant way since before 2010. But on the tactical battlefield it really is fun, an exceptional tactical puzzle with proper tools and rules to solve it.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4601102 - 06/05/22 08:04 PM Re: bogged down [Re: carrick58]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Thanks, guys. I had considered it as one of those "Well, I am just kicking around with my laptop and wanted something too poke away at...." kind of games, so I am in no hurry. Maybe I'll wait another the years and see if it is updated!


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...

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