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#4600679 - 05/31/22 02:07 PM Sniper Elite 5  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Has anyone played this yet? I just recently finished the second campaign mission and the game overall has been really improved. The graphics engine got a big update and the enemy AI seems to be a bit smarter. I just have one nitpick so far and unfortunately it has to do with our current "woke" times:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think SOE had any black Scottish members in it during WWII


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4600705 - 05/31/22 06:44 PM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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it has to do with our current "woke" times:


It's the height of the second world war, SOE is determined to destroy the Nazi infrastructure, create havoc behind the lines and kill as many of the high ranking Germans as possible... oh, and you had better have this shed load of 'non lethal' ammunition!
The French Resistance has changed somewhat as well, unless of course all the WWII newsreels and films I've seen are all wrong.
I'm on mission 4 at the moment, but have to say, mission 3 was awesome!

#4600836 - 06/02/22 09:36 AM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I have always wanted to like these games because I love the military stealth shooter genre very much but there are so many things I greatly dislike about them. I really hate the "gamey" stuff like absurdly designed HUD clutter and HUD elements that tell the player too much information and that cannot be truly turned off or totally disabled. I also hate the terrible artificial sound effects, often shrill ones that occur every other moment when the enemy is about to see you or to let you know your shots killed an enemy. Let real sound effects and in-game natural visuals tell the player all the information they need to know especially when their rounds are hitting the target. I also hate that awful surging sound effect during the slo-mo bullet cam moments. Imagine how nice that would actually feel and sound if it were just a well thought out slow down of in-game sound bled into a kind of wind-like sound/white noise or silence that then fades back into the in-game environment sounds. Allow good sound design, environment and ambient tell the story about where and what kind of space the player is currently operating in and allow quality natural sound effects set the mood, atmosphere and immersion for the game.

I may try SE4 but every video I have watched shows all this stuff still in place. I don't understand why they keep making these design choices that I personally see as terrible and immersion/enjoyment breaking. I watched a video of SE4 and the main character is having an internal dialogue with himself, presumably alone with his own thoughts. As he climbs into a cliff, cave-like area his internal narrative voice is actually echoing!?

I also don't like that they never seem to add era specific weapons that people want like the Sten MKII. The games have used other silenced weapons. They could also make ammo a scarce resource that has to be used purposefully so that it can add to the tension of surviving a mission as well as keeping a player from potentially using a suppressed submachine gun the whole game. Don't penalize them but make ammo have a reasonable scarcity to the point that one may even have to procure onsite weapons should they run out of ammo for their allied weaponry. That would add another interesting dynamic to the gameplay as well. I see that SE4 has a DeLisle DLC but still, there are so many things this developer does that I so greatly dislike. I know its not my game to make but geewhiz man, I know there are others like me who would like to see it have these things fixed. I think what keeps me from enjoying these the most though are the issues I mentioned already about all the gamey artificial visual and sound ques which are way too numerous, obstructive, invasive, distracting, immersion breaking and totally unavoidable as there are no options to truly disable or adjust them in any way by the player. I also hate the seeing enemies through walls stuff. Its like they've got this great recipe for a third-person, military stealth shooter set in WW2, all of which are things I love as a gamer and yet they design the game in such a way as to violate every aspect of what makes this genre so much fun. I want to like them because of the kind of games they represent(which are also few and far between these days) but they are inevitably usurped at every turn with forced junk that takes so much of the enjoyment out of what otherwise should by all rights and reasons be a great game experience.

I never finished SE3 for these main reasons. I also seem to recall that the enemy A.I. is pretty terrible and some other things in the gameplay design just make no sense. I played SEV2 but I can't remember much about it at this point other than I did finish it. I got part way through SE3 and it just became tedious and I found the fun being zapped out of it. I even returned to it to try again only to stop playing it yet again. I don't mean to sound like a negative nelly as I know there is some fun to be had with these games but because I enjoy this genre so much, its very frustrating to see these terrible designs being implemented in a genre where they don't belong. Not only that, these same designs appear release after release. It seems they want their game to cater more towards the modern Call of Duty style multi-player shooter with regards to all the gimmicky stuff and less towards an attempt at realism and immersion such as in the original Splinter Cell, Tom Clancy and Hidden and Dangerous era of games.

I also don't like revisionist history influences or social agenda intrusions whether that be adding wrong people in the wrong places at the wrong time doing non-historical actions or the removal of swastikas for that matter. I believe its wrong to do. I don't mind a piece of fiction or a "what-if" scenario but when a project is more or less intending to present itself in a historical light I don't think that's appropriate whatsoever. Besides truth and history are far more interesting and such a rich resource to pull from to tell one's story. Honestly I don't know how bad this series is or is not on that front. Like I said I only played the second game years ago and never finished the third game.

I keep eyeballing SE4 when its on sale but I just don't know if I'm going to run into the same issues like I did with the third game. It takes a lot to pull me away from this genre but SE3 just got to the point where I could not take the gamey stuff anymore. It really ruins it for me. If they would simply provide the option to let the player disable all of that stuff and just allow them to simply listen to natural sound effects along with no obnoxious, goofy HUD that is quick to que you in on how much XP you just earned for downing an enemy soldier I could actually see these games through to the end and have the kind of fun that I think I should be having with such a game.


John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#4600843 - 06/02/22 12:09 PM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I love sniper games, but Sniper Elite wasn't able to trip my trigger. Well, maybe I haven't tried one past SE2? Yeah, they're probably a lot better now.

Coot, have you given the Sniper Ghost Warrior games a go? Not WW2, but pretty good sniper games.


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#4600845 - 06/02/22 12:23 PM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: DBond]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Originally Posted by DBond
I love sniper games, but Sniper Elite wasn't able to trip my trigger. Well, maybe I haven't tried one past SE2? Yeah, they're probably a lot better now.

.



The gameplay mechanics are essentially the same so if you didn't care for SE 2 I doubt any of the subsequent ones will grab you. What has changed significantly are the geographical settings and the graphics as well as some of the enemy AI behavior.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/02/22 12:26 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4600848 - 06/02/22 12:29 PM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: Coot]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Originally Posted by Coot
I don't understand why they keep making these design choices that I personally see as terrible and immersion/enjoyment breaking. .



The most simple answer I can provide for that is that those design choices are what the mainstream gaming market wants. Everything is dictated by how many copies of the game are sold.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4600924 - 06/03/22 04:04 AM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I hear you Panzer. I notice Red2 is always updating the tactical forum thread with many, many new shooters in the works. I have not tried any of them as of yet but there appears to be a significant interest still present among I would image mostly older gamers yet perhaps including now a younger generation that wants to see less COD/Battlefield multi-player styled shooters and something more realism-based like the old standards we used to play.

I also understand a developer finding a niche/formula that seems to be popular enough to earn them a profit and opportunity to continue developing. However in my opinion if they would simply design the game so that all the gamey stuff could be disabled it would totally change the quality of the game from night to day at least for someone like me who just appreciates good sound design and how sound and visuals alone when done well provide most of what a player needs to navigate gameplay while immensely serving the overall atmoshpere and immersion of a game and the environments and setting its built around.

Dbond I have tried Sniper Ghost Warrior but I never got too far. I played part of the first and I think more of the second though I don't remember much about them off the top of my head. The latest one I recall sounding pretty interesting. I may still try SE4 because I love the genre and setting when it goes on sale again. I remember Panzer you saying you played through the campaign cooperatively which is a cool feature they have in some of the later games in the series. I imagine that alone, if you have a good friend, could make a huge difference in tolerating the stuff you don't like as it adds a human element and more opportunity for shared tactics and trying different strategies and all in the main campaign no less which is cool.

Last edited by Coot; 06/03/22 04:09 AM.

John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#4600941 - 06/03/22 12:51 PM Re: Sniper Elite 5 [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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DBond Offline
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I've only played SGW3 and both Contracts titles. I did not play the first two. These games go on sale often and if you're ever looking for a sniper fix I think they're worth a look. Here's a thread

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4590019/1


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