So there has been some ground swell regarding some racing 'round here. I am keen

So I thought I'd start a thread to gauge interest, talk about potential sim options. Thing is, even if there are a number of interested parties the sim(s) we race would have to be agreed upon, and we wouldn't want to lose participants by choosing titles that drive them away. So I'm hoping to determine which ones would draw the biggest crowd. I'm a realist and I know that things aren't like they were, and even a handful of willing and active drivers would be a win.

What I would want to do is run a league, where we choose a sim, set a schedule and keep a tally of the results to determine a SimHQ champion at the end.

So if you have even cursory interest in such a venture please post your thoughts, nominate the titles you'd like to race. Post anything you think is relevant.

As for me I'm open to just about anything. Open wheel, F1, GT, whatever. I'm willing to buy any sim that emerges as the top contender.

This is just to gauge interest and if there is some, to give us some direction.

League racing is a commitment, you sign up to show up. Maybe we run a race every Saturday night in the US. Aside from getting the crew together, agreeing on a time convenient to all is the biggest challenge, especially if we have entries from the US, Europe and down under. I am not naming myself commissioner, although I am willing to take that on, but anyone can as well. I have some experience running Grand Prix Legends Leagues. But the duties are minimal, just organize things and keep the drivers informed.

So this is just the first step, the initial investigation in to whether a racing league is viable at SimHQ in 2022. Let us know your thoughts.

As a plan B, if there's just one person here who wants to race, I have an open spot in the F1 2021 Co-op Career mode. See the world, meet interesting people. Win a world driver's championship. We could do same team or rival teams, doesn't matter to me but I'd prefer teaming up.

Definitely interested in some casual, friendly SimHQ racing action.

Hard to commit to a weekly league schedule from my end working shifts though.

Last sims I used to race online some years ago apart from iRacing were RaceRoom, Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2.

All of those titles have a ton of content and worked very well in those club racing events I participated in.

I have interest. But Saturday nights are for hockey in my house.
I am however retired, and fairly flexible.
Spring time is busy with yard clean up, and I have a 7 month old puppy demanding quite a bit of attention.

Interested, depending on time frame. Although I just started In sim racing so most likely I´ll be chasing most of you!

I would do some training sessions for those who are either new, need a refresher, or want to start from scratch In sim racing. That would be good as to get more people Involved. Just a suggestion as you can´t expect to have a lot of people jump In for a league, or have that kind of level of the bat from the get go.

Hey Frank. I never gave iRacing a go, despite it's Papy heritage. But I see that is popular with F1 drivers so it might be good enough....

Project Cars 2 is one I've been looking at since it seems to have a decent career mode. AC, I have. Thanks for naming a few and if more respond we can focus in on one or two of them.

Maybe the league thing isn't the best approach, but I like having standings and results and stuff. Everyone would miss events, and it would be cool just to see how everyone did with the ones participating the most near the top.. But if that isn't popular then yeah, some pick up racing is the next best thing. In about a week I'll have a racing pit haha and it will take another week at least to get comfortable with all this new kit. And then another week or two to get accustomed to whichever sim seems most likely around here.

Race Room seems like a good idea, as it gets a good nod from many, and it's free right? I've been out of the racing game too long, aside from F1, and things like connectivity, how easy it is to set up and find the server, and that side I've not caught up with yet. I'm a massive Ferrari mid-engined V8 fan myself, so one of those would be nice to race. Which sim has 458, 488 in the lineup? I'll need to look in to this stuff now. But you know me, and I'll race anything aside from electrics.

Good points Red. I should be using league in the most casual of ways, a collection of people, countries, or groups that combine for a particular purpose. Just a framework that provides a schedule and results. I said you sign up to show up, and I'll just scratch that straight away, until or unless it proved so popular we are turning them away haha.

Anyway we would have to start somewhere and I need a sim to start to learn that would be popular. Have you guys raced Race Room much? That's ten years old nearly right? I see it's unlimited trial? The site says

We allow you to test all cars for an unlimited time before you decide to purchase or not.

But you buy it to race?

Anyone that's even a maybe, post up a few titles you'd be interested in so we can so we can zoom in.

I think I'd be in to any of Assetto Corsa Competizione, Project Cars 2, Automobilista, rFactor 2. And of course I like F1. I'd go for iRacing too, but if that's still pay to play I'd want to explore these others first I think.

iRacing may be where everyone is, but yeah, no.

It is still pay to play, and expensive! Monthly sub costs US$13 per month. With that you get 26 cars and 21 tracks. That's a decent amount of content, but only scratches the surface. Any additional tracks you want to add will run another $12-15 and additional cars are yet another $12 per pop. So this could quickly run in to several hundred just to have a quarter of it. There are 68 cars and 80 tracks that are not free. Some quick math and that's nearly $1600 to get everything and you still pay every month. On top of that, everything that isn't the racing and driving seems so janky. I'm sure the physics are amazing and the driving top notch. In Kaemmer I trust. But there are so many other options that iRacing just doesn't make sense for me unless Max personally invites me to race.

A title like ACC is just $40 and that's more in my financial wheelhouse considering all the cash I just dropped to get here!

Not so fast! ACC is just GT3, and to get the rest would set you back another $70. That's way less than iRacing, but still dropping a Benjamin+.

Yeah, I say the league thing because that most likely will scare anyone who Is a casual, or newb to racing sims. The league thing will come on It´s own as people get more envolved If we are lucky enough. Not saying we can´t have something In the lines but I would encourage users first by learning as we go. People also get frustrated when they don´t meet expectations which would cause people to drop out and/or not attend meetings. It´s understandable and If we want to have this group grow a different approach Is needed.

We wont know the level people have until we start doing things, which brings up another approach of dividing the sessions into two parts, say first half a beginner friendly with the more experience on another track, and the second half altogether on the same track. This would motivate those who want to keep up with the more experienced drivers (2nd. half) but also motivate them to keep coming to the sessions to get better as they would be driving with others that are at there same level (1st. half). We could also have some theoretical clases somewhere In the time span of a session(s).

All in all It´s giving a propose to be In the group aside from just racing. Anyone who wants to race against can always join a online session, so It´s a matter of making It different for those who are In the group, as well as having a good time socially!

With regards to platform, I already stated RaceRoom In another thread. I only tried It out a bit some weeks ago but I uninstalled It because I needed the drive space on my old PC. But like I said, It´s free, all you have to do Is subscribe. Once done that there´s some free tracks and cars, and there´s the paid content which also Includes bundles. You can effectively try out any car before you buy it (time trial) , I think they give you half hour to try. There´s events and all that good stuff, I just don´t know how private sessions work.

As for other sims...

- Assetto Corsa Competizione Is GT only.

- Formula 1 2021. F1 Formula only.

- Project Cars 2, I rather play AMS or AMS 2. After the fiasco of Project Cars 3 I think this platform has lost Interest for most.

- Automobilista 1 & 2. Both are the same In terms of what they offer at there core. 1 uses the rFactor game engine (ISI) and Is a finished product, It also benefits from a wealth of mods. 2 uses the Madness game engine also used by Project Cars 2 although It´s quite more evolved then PC-2 physics wise among other things, the sim Is still being worked on. It recently received a free Formula Gen 2 car. Very Immersive and engaging sim IMHO.

- rFactor 2. It uses proprietary game engine. Has great physics and FFB, my fav. But most content Is paid DCL´s although It has a fair amount of free content. It´s still being worked on and although some pretend to degrade It, It´s still a staple among the sim racing world.

For diversity, It´s obviously the two titles last mentioned, AMS 1 & 2, or rFactor 2. We then have RaceRoom who also fits In this cat. iRacing well as I see It, unless you want to be competitive, pay for everything and be the cool guy who plays iRacing then I would discard this last because I doubt anyone new to sim racing will want to jump on that bandwagon unless "hey I am cool and have money to spare". iRacing could be something to come along In the future, I just don´t see It make sense now unless your very good at this, or want the glamour of being part of the iRacing platform.

These are just my thoughts/opinions, and maybe some guidelines. I believe In team work so I am all eyes and ears!

Edit: Personally I buy a lot from Instant Gaming unless the price Is right else were (Steam etc.) and never had a Issue with them and been doing so for many years now. Or did you think I am rich

Good post and thanks for your thoughts.

I think a starter area is a good idea, but I wonder if we'll attract anyone that isn't already in to this stuff. Like recruit a flight simmer and this is his first sim racing experience. That would be great if we did! So yeah, I'm all for that. On the other hand I would say that no one should concern himself with relative pace. I mean, Frank will be there sometimes and we'll all be mere mortals in the presence of an alien.

So even the slowest guy should feel comfortable getting involved, or I would hope so. It's down to the experience and camaraderie in my view anyway.

Great run down of those titles Red. I personally would prefer GT over AMLS/LMP and that sort of prototype cars, but honestly while I have my favorites, I will race anything. Except electrics. I will be away on those race weekends haha. If I can drive a Ferrari I'd be especially pleased. I've been looking and most of these have the 458, 488, 360.

I think Assetto Corsa Competizione is the one I'm most interested in to start, but we're still early in the process and anyway I'll end up with most of these before too long I reckon.

Another vote for ACC. I don't want to have to by dlc for RaceRoom or rFactor.

I am good with what you all decide too as I have these sims already.

We're flying by the seat of our pants so let's see what happens. One of the reasons I'm looking at ACC is the offline/single player side. Looks to have good endurance racing bones to it. Day/night cycle, weather, dynamic track temps. I've watched a couple of in-car videos and that's great racing. Like the spiritual successor to GTR which I spent so much time in. Race Room is the actual successor, but ACC fits the bill.

My new seat is due Wednesday, so I think I'll start with F1 2021 of course, and also Assetto Corsa (non-Competizione). My son and I used to mess around with it a few years ago, using the Momo. Something about it didn't quite click with me, but it was just a father and son sharing a common interest, having fun. Wasn't diving too deep. The attraction here is there are a lot of different cars and racing classes. I watched a video of the 2022 F1 cars and that looked great. Frank once shared a video of maybe '66 F1 cars? That looked great too. And AC has 700 achievements, of which I have three. This sim is a drag on my completion percentage lol, and they'd be coming quick. Like one is drive 50km in a session. Most of these must have been added later because I've certainly done that!




Seems reasonable to me! ACC would be good because frankly GT3 cars are in a great spot for online racing. Not the fastest, most powerful or aerodynamic. On the heavier side, not open wheel so they get along well side-by-side. As we found when our GPL league swapped to the '65 cars, the lower power translates to more consistent laps and better, closer racing with your mates. That's obvious I suppose, but at least our experience bore it out. The faster the cars, the faster the fastest drivers are.

If this proved popular around here there's no reason why we couldn't switch up sims and car classes as often as we want.

Whatever we race, it needs to have the ability to create a private server. I imagine they all do (does iRacing?) but that will be key. I would probably do like I did in those GPL days, any time I want to turn some practice I'll put up a server and if anyone's about and keen to turn a few they can hop right on in.

Chassis setup is one of the things I like most about sim racing. I like dialing in setups to suit me. I'd think all of these titles are good in this department?

Red2112, I saw you were running rFactor 2 today, are you running any mods ?

Timely thread! I just visited for the first time in months (years?) as I've recently re-built my simrig. I used to run SimHQ leagues here that were run by Magnum (former mod) on consoles. (Anybody know how that dude is doing these days, btw?)

I'm now exclusively pc and getting back into racing. VR has really made a big difference for immersion, making it all new again. Just added bass shakers to the rig and I'm there, in the car, at the track. Such a huge difference to flat screen racing.

I think just setting up some casual race times that work for many, and picking a sim or two that most have interest in is a great place to start. Once we have a solid group and nailed down a timeframe or two, then putting a league schedule together should be a smooth transition.

For me, weeknights on EST are probably best, followed by Sunday evening. Other weekend times are usually spent on outdoor activities particularly in spring/summer. Saturday morning could be good though, and I think that's when we ran most of the console leagues here that had decent turnout.

As far as titles, I think I have them all. Here's my breakdown of the majors that have been discussed so far:

F1 2021/2022 - to me, this title is more simcade than pure sim, and no vr support so I have no interest personally

iRacing - too pricey

AC - a bit long in the tooth. Great mod support though, but for league racing I think we have much better options below.

ACC - limited to GT cars, poor optimization and VR support.

rfactor2 - great feel, probably my favorite for FFB effects, good car and track selection. Cheap title, usually 7 bucks on sale. Solid sim all around.

Automobilista 2 - also very solid ffb, newer title, great optimization, tons of content, though the season pass for all dlc is 100 bucks. Plenty of content on the standard version though.

Raceroom - this is my current fav for ffb feel, vr support, online racing and content. You can buy all tracks and cars in one package for 65 bucks, iirc, though it's confusing and you have to buy VRP points on their store and then buy the package with the points. Its surely doable but not intuitive.

For very solid FFB feel, various racing disciplines and good vr support, I like the last 3 titles listed best.

Yep, I was just on there trying to get some clean laps! But I am a bit stubborn so I keep on trying.

With regards to mods not many, here they go...

Cars:
- Acura ARX-05 DPi
LINK
- ENSO CLM P1/01 LMP1
LINK (awesome mod)

Tracks:
- Road America 2019
LINK

HUD:
- SHQM_HUD
LINK

Along with all the free official s397 mods that download when you first Install the game.

Will be downloading F1 2021 skins for the Formula Pro (payware) In short.
Formula Pro Custom skins

If your running the recent release candidate, you might have some Issues with the none s397 modded cars as there seems to be some Issues with the new sound engine with the none TEST cars. Full release will be next month along with the Q2 content drop so no need to try out the RC If you don´t want. I am also using CrewChief for onboard pit comms, works great and I love It when he calls out my name, makes me feel I am not alone!

Magnum is still active on Xbox.

I'm open to any of the titles that we've been discussing. My plan though is to start with ACC. Get the packs that add the 488 and the GT4 cars. No Nordschleife is a big miss. I want some solid single player content, racing the AI, and I think ACC will do fine there.

I added this and RF2 to the wishlist. Maybe there will be a sale in the next three days?

The GT4 cars seems perfect to kick this thing off for me, even if there is no GT4 Ferrari evidently.

No reason not to give Race Room a go too.

rFactor 2 is less attractive in some ways, not least is the pricing. But it looks to have really good car physics and maybe the best actual driving, not necessarily racing, if you know what I mean. Looks like it feels better, and the FFB is stellar, or so they say. You guys would know.

Good to know! Last I heard he was going to tour the country on a bike and gave up all gaming. I figured he'd come back around.



rFactor 2 is on sale for under 5 bucks at indie gala, a solid retailer, steam key:
https://www.indiegala.com/store/game/rfactor-2/365960?ref=itad

Only 6 more hours though, so grab it quickly.

rFactor 2 Is also on sale at Fanatical which Is also oficial Steam key dealer. In case you miss the sale. I posted it in the Racing Sim Bundle thread.

I saw those two sale posts last night soon after you guys posted, and checked them both but rFactor still showed full price for me (regional sales?). This morning though I saw it was marked down a bit. I was off to work though so didn't grab it. rFactor's not my focus just yet. I have to be careful not to take a shotgun approach, but more laser focus on one or two of them until I have a solid base from which to work.

All of this is new to me and I need to set up a pit, work out wheel and sim settings, map controls and basically start over with sim racing. So I think it's best I keep the narrow focus to see some rapid improvement. I'll pick up rFactor 2 at some point. Thanks for the heads up fellas!

I can certainly do Saturday nights. The one critical part I need to do is buy ACC and RF 2. I currently don't have either of those games.

It looks like ACC will see some action here so I think it's a good choice, but maybe the focus doesn't trip your trigger. The thing is all of these sims have strengths and weaknesses, something they do best and something they do the worst, it seems. Someone that races exclusively in VR for example will pick this over that, or some might prioritize force feedback feel, or AI racing, affinity to, or dislike of, certain classes or whatever. If this ever gets going I suspect we'll have events in several of these sims.

Years ago when I was an active sim racer, racing online with the gang, we did a lot of GTR and GTR 2. GT cars are just a great class for online racing I think. I loved it, throwing my 575 around Donington or Brand's Hatch you know? I settled on ACC for a number of reasons.

-- GT cars. I already know from the previous experience that this is a great racing class (to me). A wide variety of marques to add diversity. GT3 and GT4 classes add more. Of course for some, having just two classes is a weakness. But as a veteran GPL, GTR and F1 driver this is not an issue for me!
-- I love Ferraris and can race them here.
-- Classic tracks. Both Donnngton and Brand's Hatch are in. Spa, Zandvoort, Imola, Laguna Seca. Kyalami!
-- Good AI racing. I've watched videos and the AI is very well behaved in ACC.
-- Good endurance racing, day night cycle, weather, dynamic track temps and tyre models.
-- As a newer sim compared to some others it looks great. Graphics are more up to date than some of the competition. rFactor is a great sim too, but looks a lot older. Graphics aren't the main thing, but must be listed as a strength for ACC. Car interiors/dashes are especially nice.
-- Offline racing. The reasonable AI and championships modes are a big plus for me. I plan to run online, but the majority will still be offline. I'm a bit of a hotlapper at heart, but I still want to be able to run a championship season against the AI.

With all the discussion about ACC here I reinstalled it today.
Totally forgot about the sim after purchasing it shortly after the release in 2019 and not being too impressed with it back then.

But what a completely different experience it is nowadays!
Worked right out of the box with my old G29 and the rest of my system without any further tweaking required to get it running smoothly with a decent AI grid.

The driving experience is so much fun that I also got the complete DLC package for it which adds quite a few iconic tracks and some more cars.
Can´t wait to try the online aspect of ACC with you!

Excellent news and a lofty endorsement indeed. I trust Frank's opinion on this stuff. I'll be there in a few days, once the rig arrives and I get it all set up. As long as it is possible, once I'm up and running I intend to run regular practice servers while learn the tracks and the sim. Well, the tracks I know already, aside from maybe Oulton Park which I don't recall running before. Most of these tracks were in GPL and/or GTR, even Snetterton as a GPL add-on track.

As long as it is possible, I'll announce the practice servers here with a password. If possible I'd like to avoid making the password public, so anyone that thinks they want to join send me a PM and I'll PM the password when it's up and running.

I plan to get the DLC too

How comfortable were you Frank from the start? Any other impressions you care to offer would be of interest, but no obligation of course. Which car/track combo were you running?

Derek, I tried a few of the non GT3 cars on tracks like Oulton Park or Zandvoort.

The BMW M2 for example is a really forgiving car to learn a new track layout. Especially for someone getting into the sim racing hobby.

Started a new career which puts you into a Lambo for a few try out test runs at Monza to get you into a GT3 team depending on your perfomance.

Went with Team Bentley and our first outing was a double race event at Zolder.
Promptly smashed my car into the barriers during the first race but luckily could limp back to the pits and finish the race second to last.
The second one went better starting from pole and winning.

That Bentley is a handful but the sound....

Now off to some wet weather tests at Brands before the next race over there.

So I have been looking Into the other sims I have and this Is what I found worth mentioning.

Neither ACC or rFactor 2 for that matter have a create server option In there main menu. They both have dedicated servers or user created servers which I will explain now. On the other hand, AMS 1 & 2 have the option to create your own server from the main game menu as done In other games, or how It was done typically In the past.

So for ACC the story goes like this...


The other way...


And for rFactor 2...


Or...


And for RaceRoom...

Thanks. I wish setting up a private server was easier, but the most important thing is it can be done.

I also found this, a GUI to make the ACC server process easier

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/acc-server-manager-ita-eng.68918/

Umm....?


So it's been nearly a month since we began talking about some racing action here in earnest. In the mean time I went from F1 2021 and FH5 with a controller to full race rig and all the latest sims. Just about every day since the rig was built I've been online hoping for some folks here to step forward and join.

But how else can you say it? It's dead. It would be one thing if we just weren't connecting, due to schedules or time zones or whatever. But I have not had anyone make any attempt to arrange any action, aside from NimRud who can always be counted on to show up for some racing. And he is half a world away!

We started a private SimHQ ACC server to help get things going, and have had one player request the password. One!

So that's what made me think we could help to bridge the gap with the hotlap challenge. A way for folks to 'compete' with others here at SimHQ but without needing to get together. A few took up the challenge, which is great, but I expected more participation. The hotlap challenge was an idea to get the fence sitters involved and hopefully when that proved fun the next step could be taken and we'd be meeting up online.

It's still early days, and many here are just getting new gear, new sims. I get it. But the question is, what will it take to get you guys to turn out? Is it down to the time? The class, the sim, the track? Post up, say what's on your mind, if anything. How do we move forward from here and see some participation?

What is holding you back?

For me, if you had picked RF2, AMS2 or Raceroom, I'd likely have been there many times late afternoon and early evening EST. All of these are solid, proven sims with great ffb feel with good or great vr support and multiple disciplines. I voted against ACC as it has terrible VR optimization and is limited to one discipline. I own the sim, but I enjoy the others much more so I've been sticking to Raceroom's online multiplayer to get my daily races in, though lately I've been setting up new hardware. (Almost done!)

It also seems there was some focus on single player and AI in ACC which is sort of irrelevant to getting a group going.

Right now, this is a very small community due to this forum being nuked years ago. I suggest a regular poll for titles and race times and follow the majority, though I have a feeling we may need more active members to reach some measure of critical mass.

We haven't picked anything really. All sims are open.

I've not read of any talk to join races except for ACC, so it seemed so.

Oh yes you have, you did from the beginning (ACC), and geared most to your liking. So "once biten, twice shy" as they say, and that´s were we stand now.

@360maniac_com seems to agree with me, so again, one does need to have a 25 year experience to have there own criteria even If there new to the sim racing world. Specially If one has ALREADY tried these sims beforehand! Now that you have the rest of the "modern" sims you say your open to anything, sorry say but that´s not nice play...

Well we had to start somewhere

.

But evidently one needs this much experience in order to put up a server here at SimHQ? If everyone's hoping something happens that they like without actually getting involved to make it happen then yeah, this is the result. You say you've been waiting in the wings for stuff you like?

I'm trying to get some folks together here to enjoy racing, but replies like these its apparent we seek different things. Nothing ventured and all. It's great you've found an ally Red, you are on the same page and maybe you will move this forward in the sims you are waiting to race. If you do, let the rest of us in on it.

No I am not looking for an allied, but you have, again from the beginning. Frases like "let the rest of us In on It" show this, aside from other actions shown here. You don´t need 25 years of experience to set up a server, there´s plenty of videos out there (I posted some), you just need to spend some time to do so, kids do this everyday.

"We had to start somewhere", sure thing, and you started were you wanted for the most part, and as a veteran In SimHQ you are the one some will believe In. So when you talk about ally's, try not to discredit others who are not SimHQ veterans, or that haven´t played GPL, or other simcade sims In the past. Again, your ally's.

Trying to get folks to enjoy racing, yes, but what you like again. I also have been trying to get people to enjoy this hobby, but without Imposing my believes or status (which I don´t have) In the process, so again quit putting/saying things like "I am seeking different things". I don´t even think I have to proof this as It´s quite evident In my threads.

But like I said, once biten, twice shy. I am not going to waist effort to be later stepped on because I am not a SimHQ veteran, haven´t played the golden era of GPL, or any other kids play. I am actually quite tired of this attitude, and some really stand out In this. So speaking of replies, yeah quite disappointed but not surprised at my age.

Yes, that seems like the best course to take.

I can only speak for myself, but I don`t believe anyone has imposed any believes or status to me. (confused).

Whether it is you red2112, or DBond or anybody else that have resources, knowledge or experience I for my part am grateful that you exist.
That`s the spirit of this forum, isn`t it. To stimulate and motivate members to enjoy gaming, on-line or not.
If you have 25 or 5 years in the forum doesn`t really matter to me if you manage to spark my interest .

Just look at your MSFS add-ons thread Red2112. 43.231 views! And growing.
Threads like that and members like you are what keeps this site alive.

Right now I am really happy that SimHQ Re-activated the SimHQ Motorsports forum.
Made me get into a genre I knew existed, but never really have tried. And I have fun doing it because of what I read here.
I don`t feel any pressure with which sim I buy.
Usually I use several sources to make me decide which game I want. That`s still valid.
It makes me happy when I read threads where forum members are excited about games they play. Also if someone make a discussion why they don`t.

I see a ACC server, and a Hotlap challenge for ACC. Now there might be some speculation as to drift to another sim because "someone" likes It because he has finally tried It. Really, there´s ways In doing and attitude. Sure we can´t have ALL the sims represented here, that would be just to much, but as It Is now, It´s ACC weather one likes It or not. If that´s not imposing then I am wrong.

I really don´t care anymore, and I have been shown the door out In a polite manner. So that´s what I will do, and I am sorry for those few that though I was encouraging here In SimHQ.

C'mon Red, you have put quite a bit of input to this forum with advice and videos etc and it is appreciated... don't dissappear.

You do realize that you have free will and can set something up yourself yeah? What servers have you set up? What announcements have you made for some racing action? Point them out to me. Which competitions have you arranged? What have we done so far that you've joined? Posting videos is not a participation sport.

Listen Red, you can stay, I hope, or leave, if that's your choice. But this position you're taking that I am ignoring what you want to do, and you are helpless to prevent it, and that you're going to take your ball and go home won't register with me. It's not a criticism, just fact, but you've not made an effort, yet complain there's nothing for you. Why not drive a sim we are driving? Are ACC or AMS2 so objectionable that you can't pull yourself away from another to join us and have fun? I think the problem is you won't branch out to what's going on.

All you would need to do is put up a rFactor session to get us to join you. But you need to make the effort. Waiting in the wings is a lonely spot. Step out of it and join us. Or not.

I am not speaking for myself, I hardly do that...

You have done what you have because that´s what you want, and that so far Is a Hotlap Challenge! Do you really think any rookie Is going to post his PB? Do you think everybody Is concerned about times, PB´s or If he hit any record? Your thinking for your self, and maybe your buddy. That´s It.

I have no Issues with what sim to use because I have them all, yes I can have a preference, but that´s not what It´s about. You see, since this started you were hung up with ACC, and things were/are going In that direction. Now there seems to be some Interest with AMS2, again with both you and your buddy. No problem with that, but for someone that might have though to join us and bought ACC, which Is limited to GTE and that more then one of us already stated this before, but hey why even listen, now thinks that he needs AMS2. Which for me should have been the first choice although I like rF2 better. I´ll say It again, I am not thinking about my self. If I was thinking just about my self I would choose, rFactor 2, and If I thought my opinion Is the best, I would say ACC sucks because It´s a overbacked sim on rails! But you see, I am not thinking about my self...

Since the start I have been thinking of those who don´t make best lap times or that are only worried about there PB and how good they are. I am thinking of those that are new to the racing sim world (that´s why I post videos!), and that maybe they just want to buy one sim to try It out, and that would like to have a race online but not so they could be overlaped and drive alone. But why bother with what I think/say or others want or even feel? It´s not about them, It´s about your league, your PB´s, your 25 years In this. So why don´t you just say so, build a pro league and be done! The problem Is that right now there´s only two of you who can be In that league!

I don´t need to take my ball "as you say", anywhere because I am not playing anything, or with anyone. Would I like to, well not with egotrips. There´s plenty of those In iRacing etc. It´s not my thing, and If It was, I would not be here talking about It. Would I start something here, maybe, I am In no hurry, but It sure would be with a different attitude and thinking on others. It´s not being on wings as you say, like I said before, I wont make efforts to be steeped on, so forget about me posting any videos anymore because you are the only one who seems Is making a effort, actually Frank deserves the effort.

Good luck with your Gentleman's league!

So really the trouble is that you have a problem with me. You don't want to read what I post? So don't read it. Good grief. Block me if that solves it for you.

I'm not going to change a thing about my approach here and my enthusiasm for rediscovering sim racing, and that was largely done with your help, I might add. But no one here is responsible for making you feel better about the fact you didn't drive GPL. Who cares?

This is all in your head and I hope you have a re-think about it.

And GPL is still a thing. Never too late you know....

One more thing to address then I will step away. Never encountered anything like this. Online racing here will grow organically or not take off, one or the other.

So you think that the best way to attract new players is to just not let them know what pace the other racers have? People will be more likely to join if they have zero idea how fast anyone is? Not so sure about that. And then what happens when they get there? You seem to be arguing that in racing the one thing you cannot reveal is your lap time. I'm not even fast! But yeah the whole point is to go faster than you did the last time around and get to the flag as quickly as possible.

My 'buddy' as you put it is way faster than me and I use it as motivation, not a reason to avoid hooking up with him and leaving the forum.

But no PBs mind.

I want you to stay, I enjoy the informational content service you provide as I've said to you personally many times over. But I entirely disagree with the premise of your argument, the issue here is personal, and it doesn't make sense for me to try to change your mind. It will either happen or it won't.

You have already been told that timings may scare people away Bond by someone else. To be a good mountain climber you don´t put beginners In a 9c wall, you start them off on small walls In a artificial rockdome with pads on the floor. You are a fan of F1, how did those drivers start there career towards fame? You also know the answer, Karts! Then they followed a logical progression.

Yes, this sport Is about timing, and yes pace, let people find out by them self´s which they will as soon as they start pulling laps, the difference Is that they will be doing so by themselves, and If they fail In doing so, nobody will know and they will try again and again till they get better. Don´t you think?

I am not a fast driver yet, do you think I jump Into RaceRoom with others who have been at this way longer then I have? Are you doing so? It´s the same concept Derek, and maybe even worst because those who do are your buddies, or not but users of this forum.

So you see It´s not personal, It´s about switching mindset here. You might not have though about all this, and maybe now that this has come here you will, or do. I come up front always, this sometimes can cause me problems because some don´t like this, and some do. With age I have learned that anyone can be better then me, I learnt this as a young guitarist when a 10 year old gypsy blew me away. That has followed me for the rest of my life, and taught me not to underestimate no one, or anything. And I also have this habit of defending the weak and forgotten.

Sorry If I am harsh at times but I may not be a veteran here, but been there before more then I should have. I have no problems trying this again, that´s If we or whoever changes focus In a more forgiving and considered manner for all.

I also play guitar. Common ground!

I know, that´s why I also put that example.

Personally I just don't have the time to online race right now in my life. What little time I do have at home on the computer I spend by playing with my real-life friends online that I rarely see in real-life any more from a different city, or offline/single-player only things.

More recent, I've just been trying out the new gear and getting accustomed with it. But, I doubt I'll ever join in any online racing unless it was with my long-time friends that I mentioned above.