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#4595451 - 03/28/22 05:09 PM Re: Recon Wars - Pilot's Experience Logs [Re: OvStachel]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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It's a difficult balancing act. I think most of us on the forum belong to what might be called the "hardcore flightsim" community, who are attracted to sims such as WOFF and WOTR precisely because of their devotion to historical accuracy. At the same time, WOFF and WOTR, despite their emphasis on historical accuracy, are still computer games, which most people play for "enjoyment" or "entertainment," however you want to define those terms. For many of us, enjoyment comes from the historical accuracy that WOFF provides. For others, perhaps fewer in numbers on this forum but larger in numbers overall, enjoyment comes mainly from blasting enemy aircraft from the sky in a WWI environment.

For the "hardcore" group, flying in rain and bad weather conditions detracts from their enjoyment of the game, because it may be historically inaccurate. However, for the more casual gamer who just wants to fly and engage in aerial combat, having flights canceled takes away from their enjoyment of the game because they mainly want to fly and shoot down bad guys. (I admit that seeing the "All Flights Cancelled Today" message can be a bit jarring). Flying in bad or awful weather may even be acceptable for this group because it adds to the challenge. A third group probably falls into both categories. It's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Having said that, version 2.02 of the Historical Weather mod tries to balance these concerns a bit, while still leaning towards historical accuracy, whenever possible. Compared to the default weather, this mod has fewer days when you are asked to fly in rain and bad weather and a relatively small increase in the number of days when all flights are cancelled. Also, the mod tones down the precipitation on those days when you are still tasked with flying so you are less likely to encounter heavy rain or snow, while still retaining a few isolated days of heavy rain or snow for variety's sake, even if it may be a bit unhistorical. wink I plan to release a small update to this version soon.

Of course, I could easily design a weather mod that does away almost entirely with flying in rain and bad weather, but I think most people (even OvS smile ) might quickly get annoyed at the click-fest of "All Flights Cancelled Today" messages! Have the new weather options in Recon Wars changed this very much? Something like the "Advance Time" to next mission button that allows you to automatically skip all "No Fly" days? I haven't had a chance to install 1.22 yet.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 03/28/22 05:15 PM.

“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4595739 - 03/31/22 03:17 PM Re: Recon Wars - Pilot's Experience Logs [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Winding Man Offline
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
It's a difficult balancing act. I think most of us on the forum belong to what might be called the "hardcore flightsim" community, who are attracted to sims such as WOFF and WOTR precisely because of their devotion to historical accuracy. At the same time, WOFF and WOTR, despite their emphasis on historical accuracy, are still computer games, which most people play for "enjoyment" or "entertainment," however you want to define those terms. For many of us, enjoyment comes from the historical accuracy that WOFF provides. For others, perhaps fewer in numbers on this forum but larger in numbers overall, enjoyment comes mainly from blasting enemy aircraft from the sky in a WWI environment.

For the "hardcore" group, flying in rain and bad weather conditions detracts from their enjoyment of the game, because it may be historically inaccurate. However, for the more casual gamer who just wants to fly and engage in aerial combat, having flights canceled takes away from their enjoyment of the game because they mainly want to fly and shoot down bad guys. (I admit that seeing the "All Flights Cancelled Today" message can be a bit jarring). Flying in bad or awful weather may even be acceptable for this group because it adds to the challenge. A third group probably falls into both categories. It's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Having said that, version 2.02 of the Historical Weather mod tries to balance these concerns a bit, while still leaning towards historical accuracy, whenever possible. Compared to the default weather, this mod has fewer days when you are asked to fly in rain and bad weather and a relatively small increase in the number of days when all flights are cancelled. Also, the mod tones down the precipitation on those days when you are still tasked with flying so you are less likely to encounter heavy rain or snow, while still retaining a few isolated days of heavy rain or snow for variety's sake, even if it may be a bit unhistorical. wink I plan to release a small update to this version soon.

Of course, I could easily design a weather mod that does away almost entirely with flying in rain and bad weather, but I think most people (even OvS smile ) might quickly get annoyed at the click-fest of "All Flights Cancelled Today" messages! Have the new weather options in Recon Wars changed this very much? Something like the "Advance Time" to next mission button that allows you to automatically skip all "No Fly" days? I haven't had a chance to install 1.22 yet.


Do you actually understand what the new workshops settings that I added do?
Sounds to me like you dont?

Try them!

WM


OBD Software
#4595786 - 04/01/22 09:08 AM WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk  
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Polovski Offline
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Moved some off topic modding comments here to help keep the " Recon Wars - Pilot's Experience Logs" thread on topic.

Last edited by Polovski; 04/01/22 09:13 AM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4596624 - 04/10/22 11:20 AM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Hallo,

a short question about the 2 settings "Bad weather affects operations" and "Bad weather cancells flights":
Are they depending on default weather/sky/clouds? Does a cloud-mod have an influence on the system of these settings? So should I use no cloud-mods or is it no problem in consequence?

Thanks and Greetings!

#4596635 - 04/10/22 02:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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It's designed for use with the default weather. If you want generally better weather, you can instead disable historical weather (which was extremely very poor during much of the war) and instead choose AI weather gen (generated weather).
We do have runtime code that can check various things based on cloud setting, such as vision - for photos recon visibility and so on. I can't really comment on the mod if it would break something or not.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4596638 - 04/10/22 04:03 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Yes @Pol, I understand. Because of these things -visibility for photos- and other I have doubts to fly with a weather/cloud-mod (OCM from @BB f.e.). Probably it is better to fly a Recce/Bomber-campaign with default weather/clouds, if both settings and historical weather are on.
On the other side I can imagine that a test with a fighter-campaign and a cloud-mod (OCM) with these 3 settings (above) could be useful and maybe with "green light" as result.

Greetings

#4596647 - 04/10/22 06:58 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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VonS Offline
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@Becker, the lovely clouds mod by Buckeye B (ver. 4.0) throws in lots more heavy clouds, fog, etc., so it may indeed have an effect on recon. mission frequency, results of recon. missions, and whatnot. Having said that, the clouds mod is usually used in conjunction with Buckeye B's "weather mod" too. Default in WOFF/BH&H2, as far as I know, is BB's weather mod 1.44 (which often gives flying in dreary weather). Two other versions of the weather mod that are available are 1.45 (similar in effect to 1.44, which is stock), and 2.02, which improves flying weather overall (put differently, does not have you flying in very poor weather as often as 1.44/1.45, but instead in somewhat poor weather).

So, in short, if you really want to load BB's optional clouds mod (ver. 4.0), you are probably best off combining it with his weather mod ver. 2.02 - throwing the optional clouds mod onto stock weather patterns (1.44) in BH&H2 will probably alter good/bad days for recon. action - while loading weather mod 2.02 will to some extent offset the changes of the clouds pack ver. 4.0 and leave the overall effect closer to default (that is to say, stock weather 1.44 with default clouds, in BH&H2).

Summary Table for Recon. Weather Patterns
(most impact will be felt with the various combos. if BH&H2 is set always to choose to fly recon. even in poor weather)

recommended - built-in weather mod 1.44 with default clouds

probably safe to use - weather mod 2.02 plus BB's ver. 4.0 clouds mod (should give an effect similar to stock config)

exciting but probably alters overall effect of recon. missions and will give more very poor weather flying with noticeably poor recon. results - weather mod 1.45 (or built-in, stock 1.44) plus BB's ver. 4.0 clouds mod

NOTE: settings in table above will have the most impact if you set BH&H2 patch 1.22 or later to auto-choose to fly in poor weather (for recon. flights); settings will have the least impact if you set BH&H2 to auto-choose NOT to fly in poor weather (for recon. flights). Effects of the combos. listed above will mostly be selective if you set to fly "manually" as per your own choice, in poor weather, in BH&H2 (for example, effects of the various weather combos will be at the whim of how frequently, if at all, you yourself choose to fly recon. in poor weather).

Hope some of this info. helps.

Cheers,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 04/10/22 11:34 PM. Reason: Added info.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4596683 - 04/11/22 07:53 AM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Hallo @VonS,
I agree! It confirms, what I have written.
And sorry, that I did forget to mention the "historibcal weather mod" (HWM) from @BB. I always use it together with his OCM. Both, HWM and OCM are 2 parts of one mod on my system. So I haven't written it.

Greetings

#4596946 - 04/13/22 04:47 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Hi, chaps. Sorry not to have responded earlier, but I have been dealing with some health issues with my father, so I haven't had any time to install or let alone play with, the new "Recon Wars" patches.

@Becker, there is nothing in either the Historical Weather files or the Optional Cloud mod that will "break" anything in either BHaH2 or in Recon Wars. If anything, the OCM makes flying recce and bombing missions even more realistic (although more difficult and perhaps more frustrating) because the default clouds are artificially "light," at least in my opinion. For proof, take a look at the link to the pilot log that Bletchley posted yesterday. Many times, the pilot mentions how the presence of rain or clouds prevented him from successfully completing the mission, even if it initially looked okay to fly.

Because I haven't had time to play with the new patches, I can't say much about how the "Bad weather affects operations" and "Bad weather cancels flights" options work, but from what I understand, the OCM should still work fine with both. I think the "Bad weather affects operations" simply adjusts your waypoint heights so you are more likely to be under the cloud layer, while the "Bad weather cancels flights" simply toggles whether you automatically skip the "No Fly" days or are given the option to fly in them despite the nasty weather. I'm sure someone will come along to tell me if I am wrong, though! smile

@VonS, thank you for your detailed explanation about the differences between Historical Weather mod versions 1.45 and 2.02. Personally, I prefer 2.02 a bit over 1.45, but both will work fine regardless of whether you are flying a scout or a two-seater campaign.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4596952 - 04/13/22 04:54 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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For clarity, "Bad weather affects operations" doesn't just affect waypoints (or rather heights), it also changes missions to not be full photo or other recon as you will fail given you are at the wrong altitude and in poor visibility. So you get similar missions to those mentioned in https://gregswar.com/ in the Recon Wars thread

Last edited by Polovski; 04/13/22 04:55 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4596953 - 04/13/22 04:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Thanks, Pol. I knew it effects more than waypoint heights, but I was too lazy to look it up. Thanks for the clarification!


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4596986 - 04/13/22 10:23 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Hi, chaps. Sorry not to have responded earlier, but I have been dealing with some health issues with my father, so I haven't had any time to install or let alone play with, the new "Recon Wars" patches.

@Becker, there is nothing in either the Historical Weather files or the Optional Cloud mod that will "break" anything in either BHaH2 or in Recon Wars. If anything, the OCM makes flying recce and bombing missions even more realistic (although more difficult and perhaps more frustrating) because the default clouds are artificially "light," at least in my opinion. For proof, take a look at the link to the pilot log that Bletchley posted yesterday. Many times, the pilot mentions how the presence of rain or clouds prevented him from successfully completing the mission, even if it initially looked okay to fly.

Because I haven't had time to play with the new patches, I can't say much about how the "Bad weather affects operations" and "Bad weather cancels flights" options work, but from what I understand, the OCM should still work fine with both. I think the "Bad weather affects operations" simply adjusts your waypoint heights so you are more likely to be under the cloud layer, while the "Bad weather cancels flights" simply toggles whether you automatically skip the "No Fly" days or are given the option to fly in them despite the nasty weather. I'm sure someone will come along to tell me if I am wrong, though! smile .



Best wishes sent to you and especially your father Mate..FWIW i'm using both your mods OCM and HW and i've had no issues at all flying recon missions in fact my last mission had cloud over the target area which i loved...
It made me do 3 passes until i could find the right moment to take any photos, all this whilst Archie was going off all around me duck and i bloody loved it Chris.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4596988 - 04/13/22 10:31 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Hah, mate! Love to hear it!

Thanks for the good wishes. Dad has had a good life, but it is sad to see him decline so rapidly.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4596994 - 04/13/22 11:17 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Hah, mate! Love to hear it!

Thanks for the good wishes. Dad has had a good life, but it is sad to see him decline so rapidly.


You're welcome, so sorry to hear about his fast decline Chris.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4597082 - 04/14/22 07:57 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Hallo @BB,

I will try OCM4.2 light version (with less heavy clouds) and HWM 2.02 as before. The alternative solution for Recce/Bomber-campaign is default on my system (so far).

Greetings.

#4597102 - 04/14/22 11:06 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Becker,

That may result in a better experience for you. Incidentally, I am now putting the finishing touches on updates to both version 1.45 and 2.02 of the historical weather mod that will have slightly fewer days that call on you to fly on cloudy or rainy days than the current versions do.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/15/22 06:59 PM.

“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4597272 - 04/16/22 08:08 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Hallo @BB,

I have tested your OCM4.2 with HWM2.02 in Recce/Bomber-campaign, "Bad weather cancells missions -On".
I have had a photo-Recon and with the camera-view I could see the cloud-layer / fog under the aeroplane. The ground-target was very difficult / not to see. Nevertheless I have taken 5 photos with these weather-conditions and I was sure that all photos are not useable because of bad visibility. But -back at home and see the details- I have had 3 accurate photos, 1 blurred, 1 overexposed eek .

So I remember on the feedback from @Pol 13 postings above: "It's designed for use with the default weather. ... We do have runtime code that can check various things based on cloud setting, such as vision - for photos recon visibility and so on ...".
Is it possible, that the system hasn't registrated your new clouds/cloud-layer/fog, because they are not integrated in the runtime code for vision/photos recon visibility? And that the visibility was good for the system because it hasn't "seen" your new clouds?


Greetings and Happy Easter (in these dark times!)

Last edited by Becker01; 04/16/22 08:49 PM.
#4597629 - 04/21/22 04:34 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Quote
So I remember on the feedback from @Pol 13 postings above: "It's designed for use with the default weather. ... We do have runtime code that can check various things based on cloud setting, such as vision - for photos recon visibility and so on ...".
Is it possible, that the system hasn't registered your new clouds/cloud-layer/fog, because they are not integrated in the runtime code for vision/photos recon visibility? And that the visibility was good for the system because it hasn't "seen" your new clouds?

Very possible, especially if the ground is being obscured by low-level, haze clouds from the mod. Just pretend you were able to get a lucky break in the clouds!


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4597785 - 04/23/22 05:41 PM Re: WOFF BH&H II V1.22 PATCH RELEASED MOD talk [Re: Polovski]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Thanks for answer @BB,
I hope your father is better!

Greetings!


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