As a side note with regards to single player...

You can create a custom race season using the provided In game tools for single player as you would for multiplayer.

It is what it is, and I'll have fun with what's here.

I drove an Indy Car around the Brickyard. That was fun

Turned a 41.3 which is nearly 218 mph. It takes balls to do this for real. And that was the stock setup and I'm sure is a relatively slow lap.

Just saying that the paid content Is not the same as the free content, which doesn't mean the free content Is bad.

I'll add some DLC down the line. What I have so far feels a bit sparse and unfocused, but still fun. There's still more official content for me to get for free, plus all the unofficial stuff. Like Mid-Ohio which is a must-have track.

I'll wait and see if they run a sale and I'll add some DLC.

Like a moth to a flame, here I turn laps around "Brianza", which is Monza, and this is the '66 version or thereabouts. There's a noticable lack of licenses with rFactor 2 too. I'm not sure in some cases whether the car marque I'm seeing is fictional or not. Like Eve for example. Is that Lotus?

Derek, I if I remember correctly there must be a very nice historic Spa and Monaco version included with rF2?!

At least it was when the game got released all those years ago.

We even had some fun races with that early version of fF2 with the old SimHQ racing crowd back then.

Unfortunately I`m no longer interested in that sim. A proper GPL-style mod with the historic tracks would change that of course.

I felt like my growing collection of racing sims would not have been complete without rFactor 2.

It's fun to drive. My reaction to it has been reserved. It doesn't blow me away, for some of the reasons I've noted already.

I really like the feel of the driving, the force feedback is good. The AI look good too. But I do want career and championship modes as despite the amount of hotlapping I do, I gravitate toward these modes, as I've done already in ACC. I like having season schedules, points standings and those sorts of things. I have that in F1 2020/21 and Competizione, and even Assetto Corsa, now, though I have not given that a look yet.

I think I'll treat rF2 as sort of a 'trainer', a sim to hotlap, and have around to participate in any racing that comes up. I think it will be my Ringtrainer, the feel of the car in this one should be perfect for returning to the green hell.

The only reason I made the statement with you regarding the paid content, specially cars, Is the fact that to truly feel the mechanics/physics of this sim you need to do so In at least one of there paid car DLC´s. From there, one can judge how this sim "really" feels. Everyone Is free to do as they please, and of course have there own opinion! But to be fair with the sim, yourself and others It should be done how It´s Intended for best results and were all the efforts were they have been put on, and that is with premium DLC content. It´s not there just to be a money grab, It´s there for a reason.

Most people already know what and how rFactor 2 Is, It´s been around many years now, and those who don´t Is simply because they didn´t bother to find out. You can love it or hate It, with It´s good and bad but what one can´t deny Is that It´s been (and for some still Is) the reference platform for what a racing sim should be. The fact that some manufactures today still use the rFactor Pro version for there training also stand by this fact. Another note Is that It´s built on a proprietary game engine and not built around a generic engine like the Unreal Engine. The game engine Is built from the ground up, which Is not a easy task either and It´s built specifically for sim racing.

With regards to career mode and the likes. It´s a known fact that AI, In any game, Is not the easiest thing to get right, specially when It comes to pathfinding. Racing sims are no different, and specially difficult when It comes to the for mentioned AI and pathfinding, so It´s understandable that most racing sims don´t use a complex career mod or anything alike. They really don´t do a great job for the most part on any sim. Reason why online racing is so much more popular, as with iRacing which In It´s earlier years had AI but not anymore, and one would asume for the reasons already mentioned. Aside from the fact that racing Is pure competition and what can be more pure then racing against real drivers. Simulating a career? Well, most can live without that because most only care about racing a car that has the proper and most realistic physics they can get, along with the ability to tweak and adjust the car as It´s done In RL, and then go and race on there fav tracks, be It solo or In MP.

I bothered to make these statements primarily as proof of concept for all those Interested, and not to bash on one or other sim or opinion, so to be clear.

All in good time. When there's a sale I'll snap up some DLC cars and post my opinion. Appreciate the info.

Release date May 9th.

I have to disagree with this. Racing sims have to be among the easiest to program competent AI. There is essentially just one path, the cars don't have to calculate new routes. There must be a certain level of 'tacAI' where they make decisions to avoid incidents, respect blue flags, pit or pass other cars. But essentially they run the same path always.

From the sims I've looked at most do have a career or championship mode and they have since I started racing sims. Indy Car, NASCAR Racing, GPL, Grand Prix 2, the EA F1 games, Codemasters F1 games, GTR/2, Project Cars, ACC, and even AC have them now. The only notable sims that come to mind without this are rFactor, iRacing and Race Room, though I'm sure there are more.

And more than that, virtually all of these games have good AI to race against. Some are more 'unpredictable' than others, but even back to those '90s F1 games I've felt the AI did a more than credible job.



Online racing is popular indeed, but where are you getting your data that says online racing is more popular? It may be true, but I suspect there are more offline racers than online.

Automobilista also does not have these career or championship modes right? But they are planned according to the devs. Guess we'll see.

And in the case of F1 2021 we have career and championship modes that can be played online too. This is the way forward for me.

Hmm, are you a programmer? I ask because If it was easy as you say, we would have really good AI by now In all racing sims, and most veterans would not complain about how cheeky the AI can be in more then one sim, with things like break checking, abusive kerb use, bumping, or just simply being way more faster then you In every way. Aside from them getting away with things that If you would pull off that same stunt would lose of control!

Of course this all dependes on "how" you have your AI set to, which I wont get Into. Oh and I really disagree on that there "just one path", really? So basically you always follow the same lane no matter what, Interesting. In that case why even bother to have a spotter. Anyways...

We are not In the 90´s, and most that sim race now days don´t consider EA or Codemasters F1 racing sims, more like simcade I am afraid, but everyone Is free to play/think what they like. Racing sims of the past are nice Indeed, but It´s something from the past and we are talking about now days. It´s always the same story, "I used to play this" and I want this to be the same or better. So we either have the same thing, with Improved graphics of course, or bust. Sad really...

Online Is more popular because It gets more exposure (there´s constant cups, championships, and overall events), that Is If you are aware of It and/or look for them. Why did we even think of starting a race group here on SimHQ, so we could race by our self's? I can tell you of a bunch of online groups that all they do Is race online, and practice offline, no careers no championships etc. just online racing with friends. Sure there´s people who race offline but how many people watch them do so on YT? What´s the point of watching a guy beat a as you say a easy to do AI? Why are there games that are only for online play? Because weather we like It or not, online Is very popular now days, no matter what you play.

I will put this In another way so some can relate to with regards to sims...

- DCS, most campaigns are broken at some point or the other. With out getting Into broken modules that cost a arm and a leg, and that might never get fixed, or maybe you are lucky to play them as they should when you retire!
- iL2, same deal.
- Arma III, oh this one Is a real killer, specially In Zeus mode! Same deal.
- MSFS 2020, WIP In other words, same deal.
- FSX/P3D/X-Plane, same deal.
- Steel Beast Pro, while not that broken still has mayor Issues with pathfinding. NO campaign, only user made content (scripted).
- Ghost Recon Wildlands/Breakingpoint, same deal with added aim bots.
- WoW, or WoT, I wont even bother to get Into. But, very popular!
- Then we have all the online games that thousands play every day, with there own cheat abuse and Issues.

We have been playing broken games, with even worst broken AI for a very long time now, the worst part Is that "some" have normalized this fact and even argue about It, which Is acceptable and a social thing, but let´s be realistic.

Thanks for your reply but I still disagree.



This is disappointing and I have to conclude you have taken my desire for robust single player modes in racing sims as criticism of your preference for online sims.

No I don´t have a preference for online sims, I am exposing reasons why online racing Is popular (as we also wanted to do the same here), and why offline racing can be not so fun (AI). According to you we have great, or decent AI, well It dependes on what AI setting you have, on which track and with what car. Which In turn Is a pain In the rear because there´s no magical number to set and forget. That´s what I am saying, and again means "we don´t have" a easy (good) AI If not set right.

Let me put It this way. I struggle more then I would like to with the AI, be It In rFactor2, ACC or AMS2. In part It´s due to my racing doctrine (or was) as a newb, but for the most part It´s due to extremely dumb ass moves that the AI are trying to pull off constantly because I havent found the AI sweet spot for the car/track combo I am doing. So one ends up restarting races that the AI is bound to screw you up constantly because of how the AI Is behaving. This Is a real bummer, not to say frustrating when your trying to give the best of your self In every lap, and I am sure you know what I mean by this. It´s not my driving, It´s how the AI Is set and behaving.

So please understand when I say It´s hard for me to think career or offline mode works well and Is a must. Now, "if" the AI Is set In such a easy way that while you are following your race line as you should you don´t encounter any AI ramming your rear, side bumping or front break checking among other things I already mentioned that the AI do, then yeah career and offline mode can be great! But you see, there´s a difference and we can´t give the Impression that yeah your gonna have a great time with the AI set to +100%, and same with aggression If you want a challenge with the AI to someone who never played such sim, or that doesn't know about these things yet.

It´s very healthy to say that we should know about the pros and cons, and not because one likes a career mode that´s what should be the standard, specially now days and with what we have as AI as fire and forget. I am aware of what Is broken or not, like I said we have been doing this for many years unfortunately, but that doesn't mean you can´t have fun with It. But I also remember that were I had the most fun was 80% online with some friends In DCS, Falcon 4, R6RS, ArmA III etc. although knowing that the campaigns (except F4) were broken offline. There´s nothing wrong with this In all honesty, I am just saying It´s always been like that, and that In this case, one needs to know how to set up the AI by trial and error. Nothing more, and nothing less.

And I am real sorry If I gave the wrong Impression, I really don´t want to spoil anyone's enjoyment, but I also think one has to be straight forward so no one gets confused with what they can expect while being new to this.

We see it differently then. I am saying I have been enjoying racing against the AI in sims for the past 25 years. You are arguing it's not possible. Where does our conversation go from there?

No I'm not a programmer. This would be a valid test were I complaining things should exist that do not yet. But it does exist, and having seen it for that many years I don't think I need programmer credentials to recognize it. All those sims I listed that you dismiss as old and simcade have really good AI and off line modes. The racing for example in F1 2021 against the AI is brilliant. A fantastic experience which I cannot get enough of. But I had a great time racing the AI in those old Papyrus sims too.

Anyway, I downloaded the rest of what is called the anthology content, which is Studio 397 and Image Space Incorporated or some such. Got lots of new stuff .

Last night I spent some time lapping around Interlagos, one of my very favorite tracks, in something called the ISI, an open wheel car with a very high rev limit!

As I said rFactor 2 has good AI, all it's missing for me are those offline modes to carry over my progress. It doesn't have to have this, but for me it would be better and the AI is already good enough. It's quite convincing really, and drives well, gets out of shape, gets some wiggle in the ass end ya know? I often talk about good AI, but I don't just mean it drives around well, but that it has mistakes and variability in it's driving, giving the impression there's a fallible human behind the wheel. It's my main complaint with F1 2021, that the AI is too much like AI, not enough mistakes in it, nor the chaos I want to see in a F1 sim. On the other hand it races you tight and clean, and that works fine.

I ran a race at Brand's Hatch last night in ACC and the AI racing experience was again wonderful. I'm quite happy with what we have in regards to AI.

Where do you get that I said "It´s not possible"?

And when you say AI is good In these sims, there´s no mention of how or what levels of AI you have set, as If there were set to a magical number which really makes me wonder If we are even on the same page with this.

But really, If you enjoy all this then that´s what matters to you which Is quite evident. What I already mentioned Is that those who are playing thee actual sims of today, have a very different opinion of what sims should be and how AI works In these sims, have they been playing sims for the past 25yrs, well some are real pilots and some have been In It long enough to know right, and everybody can have a valid opinion aside from yours.

Right about there?

There's no way we are on the same page about this. And that's fine with me.

Good, really good. Oh really c´mon now, let´s not be kids because that doesn't say It´s Impossible, and through out the thread I mention In more then one occasion the Importance of setting the AI right, which you seem to have a magic touch for.

And since I don´t want to look like a fool to some. Find below a wealth of listings with regards to AI...

rFactor 2:
rF2 AI settings.

Assetto Corsa Competizione:
Asseto Corsa Competizione AI settings

Automobilista 2:
AMS 2 AI settings

Some seem to be gifted after all these years, and then all of those above must be wrong It seems.

I´ll leave It here...