Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#4589962 - 01/24/22 05:54 AM You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918...  
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
AlbrechtKaseltzer Offline
Junior Member
AlbrechtKaseltzer  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
You've traveled back in time. It's now January 1918, and you're responsible for submitting an original aircraft design.

Some ground rules...

1. You can work for any combatant country and air service of your choice.

If you're working for the Central Powers, you're submitting an original aircraft design for the Adlershof trials; if you're working for the Entente, you're proposing an original design to the RFC/RNAS or Aeronautique Militaire, etc. (Same goes for Italy, Austria-Hungary etc).

2. Once you've figured out which side you're on, you may also partner with any appropriate company/designer of your choice (or go solo).

3. You have access to any technology available at that time. The bureaucrats will sign the checks to get you what you want if the design is good enough.

4. For the purposes of this exercise, you know/remember everything that you know right now in real life - i.e. you're not restricted to "what people knew at that time." Come on, you're a time-traveling aircraft designer from the future!

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 01/24/22 05:56 AM.
#4589982 - 01/24/22 12:26 PM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Polovski Offline
Polovski  Offline

Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Great idea but it may need a few limits. I fear these may turn out to look like an F-35 or Euro Fighter wink


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4590022 - 01/24/22 05:17 PM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
mandrews Offline
Member
mandrews  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
South Carolina
Perhaps limit it to what could be built at that time. Afterall, you have to deliver a working aircraft to the trials.


i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync
#4590035 - 01/24/22 06:13 PM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
Yes, needs more limits, otherwise a Cessna or Piper Cub will easily show up at Aldershof and then you will be captured and questioned for being a possible time traveller. biggrin

Simplest thing is just to work on making the Siemens-Halske rotary more reliable by early 1918 - and you will have a winner either with the Pfalz Dr.1 or the Fokker V.7 experiment. Only other thing I can think of is a parasol monoplane conversion of the Alb. D.Va - along the lines of the Morane-Saulnier Type AI with one wing, parasol-type. You already have the streamlined fuselage of the Alby - engine-up the Mercedes inline a wee bit, try out a few different prop shapes and blade angles - and you should have a nice pocket rocket there, with excellent top speed and probably fairly maneuverable too.

For the Entente, they already have the Spad 13 - about the best there is for 1918. Although it would be interesting to try keeping the Tripehound serviceable well into 1918 (with increasing engine power).

Cheers all and happy alternative history aircraft fantasies,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 01/24/22 06:43 PM. Reason: Tweaked post for more wit.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4590056 - 01/24/22 09:33 PM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob Offline
Member
BuckeyeBob  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
Basically, the Junkers CL1, with lighter metal and an enclosed cockpit. Add on the BMW engine used in the Fokker DVII.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4590058 - 01/24/22 09:44 PM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 196
jakethescot1 Offline
Member
jakethescot1  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 196
I'd like to see an Albatros D.V with a sweep wing monoplane design. Like the wings of an F-86 Sabre.

#4590069 - 01/25/22 03:27 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 860
OvStachel Offline
Member
OvStachel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 860
Long Island, NY
Some interesting and creative designs can certainly be pulled from this training video...



The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4590077 - 01/25/22 09:08 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: VonS]  
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
AlbrechtKaseltzer Offline
Junior Member
AlbrechtKaseltzer  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by Polovski
Great idea but it may need a few limits. I fear these may turn out to look like an F-35 or Euro Fighter wink

Originally Posted by mandrews
Perhaps limit it to what could be built at that time. Afterall, you have to deliver a working aircraft to the trials.

Originally Posted by VonS
Yes, needs more limits, otherwise a Cessna or Piper Cub will easily show up at Aldershof and then you will be captured and questioned for being a possible time traveller. biggrin


Ah ha, I have anticipated you all! "3. You have access to any technology available at that time."

Maybe #4 is tripping people up. The idea there isn't "Oh I know how to make a jet engine, so I'll make a jet engine in 1918!" The idea is that it's okay to use the benefit of hindsight: e.g. if we now know that a particular engine was doomed to fail, or that a particular design had one fatal flaw, or that a particular feature would later on become problematic for pilots, it's okay to implement that knowledge even though that knowledge wouldn't have been available in January 1918.

As per #3, we're using technology available at that time; as per #4, you know everything about that technology that we know today. You can anticipate things that nobody would have been able to anticipate at that time.

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 01/25/22 11:03 AM.
#4590080 - 01/25/22 09:24 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: VonS]  
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
AlbrechtKaseltzer Offline
Junior Member
AlbrechtKaseltzer  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by VonS
Simplest thing is just to work on making the Siemens-Halske rotary more reliable by early 1918 - and you will have a winner either with the Pfalz Dr.1 or the Fokker V.7 experiment.

Probably would have also worked wonders for the Fokker D.VI and E.V/D.VIII (not to mention the SSW's).

Quote
Only other thing I can think of is a parasol monoplane conversion of the Alb. D.Va - along the lines of the Morane-Saulnier Type AI with one wing, parasol-type. You already have the streamlined fuselage of the Alby - engine-up the Mercedes inline a wee bit, try out a few different prop shapes and blade angles - and you should have a nice pocket rocket there, with excellent top speed and probably fairly maneuverable too.


Another thing I really like about this design is how that lower wing was always the problem on the Albatros D.III/D.V/D.Va. Occam's Razor: remove the lower wing altogether!

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 01/25/22 09:25 AM.
#4590088 - 01/25/22 11:42 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
AlbrechtKaseltzer Offline
Junior Member
AlbrechtKaseltzer  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 91
Anyway, here's the first couple ideas that come to mind for me...

#1 - Working for Germany, partnered with Pfalz.

Start by developing a clone of one of the Austrian inline engines - either the Hiero 6N or Austro-Daimler 6. By early 1918, both are producing around 220-230hp with a reported compression ratio greater than that of the BMW IIIa. Benz tried to emulate these designs with their Bz IV, but this was noticeably heavier with lower compression. So I'd work with Benz to continue development so as to better approximate the performance of the original Austrian design.

(In case of engine availability issues, you could also just use the 200hp Mercedes D.IIIaü).

For the airframe, start with the general Pfalz D.IIIa design, but alter the airfoil to emulate the thicker Göttingen airfoil shape made famous on the Fokker Dr.I and Fokker D.VII. Then for the fuselage, in keeping with Pfalz's time-honored tradition of ripping off LFG Roland, shorten the D.IIIa fuselage along the lines of the Roland D.VI in order to cut back on weight.

You get a stable gun platform with phenomenal speed, climbing, diving, and performance at altitude, along with a gentle stall - that "hanging by its propeller" quality that the Fokker D.VII was so famous (and deadly) for. This combines the strengths of the Fokker D.VII and the SE5a, while maintaining the historical Pfalz D.III's indestructibility in a dive.

#2 - Working for Great Britain.

-Start with the SE5a design.

-Streamline the nose/fuselage, as RAF actually did with the experimental SE5b. (But don't mess with the wings like they did on the SE5b).

-Incorporate James McCudden's modifications as part of the standard design: high-compression engine pistons, shortened exhaust, copy the German propeller spinner that McCudden used.

-Scrap the Lewis gun on the top wing; add a second Vickers that's mounted to the side underneath the first gun (i.e. copy the arrangement on the Nieuport 28).

Overall, you get more speed, less drag, and more useful firepower.

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 01/25/22 10:33 PM.
#4590145 - 01/26/22 02:52 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,704
Rick_Rawlings Offline
Senior Member
Rick_Rawlings  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,704
All I know is however many cup holders l specify, they should probably add at least one more double it!


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4597742 - 04/23/22 07:27 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 106
masterKamera Offline
Member
masterKamera  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 106
hello everyone,

personally just give me a junkers D.1from certain angles its awfully remeniscent of a fw 190 minus the canopy

#4597747 - 04/23/22 08:27 AM Re: You're designing an original aircraft in January 1918... [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 867
catch Offline
Member
catch  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 867
QLD, Australia
Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer

#2 - Working for Great Britain.

-Start with the SE5a design.

-Streamline the nose/fuselage, as RAF actually did with the experimental SE5b. (But don't mess with the wings like they did on the SE5b).

-Incorporate James McCudden's modifications as part of the standard design: high-compression engine pistons, shortened exhaust, copy the German propeller spinner that McCudden used.

-Scrap the Lewis gun on the top wing; add a second Vickers that's mounted to the side underneath the first gun (i.e. copy the arrangement on the Nieuport 28).

Overall, you get more speed, less drag, and more useful firepower.


It's a good idea Alby. Why not modify the old girl and whack a Rolls Royce Falcon III engine in it and ditch the Suiza and/or Viper. 12 cyls and plenty of power. Didn't do the Bristol Fighter any harm. Arm it with 3 Vickers. Then you got one feisty girl.

And the Sandbagger could model it.

Attached Files rolls-royce-falcon-3-iii-v-12-piston.jpg

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0