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#4583366 - 10/22/21 10:41 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: carrick58]  
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Originally Posted by carrick58
.In any case the Basic Firearm Safety Rules that He did break was not to point a Firearm at anything that U do not want destroyed and always check to make sure its empty He is partly to blame for Loss of life.

Unsupportable at this point, carrick. Lots of movies dating back to The Great Train Robbery have used P.O.V. shots at/into the camera. Guess who is usually right behind the camera? Camera operator, cinematographer and the director. Actors would not be responsible for securing and inspecting firearms, there would be a prop master or armorer for that. So while there certainly could be some blame there, it's too soon to say that yet...


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#4583369 - 10/22/21 11:02 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Watch Bret Baer on FOX just now. He reported that the "weapon" had missed fired before and there was concern from the crew about safety before today. He also reported working conditions were why six crew members walked of the set hours before in protest.

#4583370 - 10/22/21 11:04 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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#4583377 - 10/23/21 03:22 AM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ


Excellent, just what I needed to form a serious response. Thanks dude! ...Oh wait...

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#4583378 - 10/23/21 03:39 AM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Rick_Rawlings]  
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Originally Posted by Rick_Rawlings
Originally Posted by carrick58
.In any case the Basic Firearm Safety Rules that He did break was not to point a Firearm at anything that U do not want destroyed and always check to make sure its empty. He is partly to blame for Loss of life.

Actors would not be responsible for securing and inspecting firearms, there would be a prop master or armorer for that. So while there certainly could be some blame there, it's too soon to say that yet...


My dad gave me an old Mossberg .22 when I was about 10. He had already been hammering firearm safety into me since the first time I touched that .22 Mossberg. I was well educated that I WAS ABSOLUTELY RESPONSIBLE for that weapon and that it could kill someone.

I guess Baldwin missed that class...and you also Mr. Rawlings.

edit: Good to see your skewed viewpoint as usual though. Hopefully, there are zero firearms in your household.

Wouldn't want an accident.

Last edited by Nixer; 10/23/21 03:49 AM. Reason: Skewed Viewpoints

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#4583395 - 10/23/21 11:44 AM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
My dad gave me an old Mossberg .22 when I was about 10. He had already been hammering firearm safety into me since the first time I touched that .22 Mossberg. I was well educated that I WAS ABSOLUTELY RESPONSIBLE for that weapon and that it could kill someone.


Agree -- FWIW: my background similar.

Grew up in the hills of Virginia (literally). One of the couple things I remember from before age 4 -- at age 2 my Father took me into the woods and let me watch him shoot a pistol at a tree. Taught gun safety.

The "shooting accident" I eye-witnessed. When I was 5 standing in the kitchen, my Father's shooting buddy handed him a "supposedly empty" pistol to consider buying. My father aimed it out the back window but kids were playing out there; so he aimed at the kitchen sink (i.e. never aim a gun towards people for any reason -- unless you intend to use it) -- and pulled the trigger on the "empty gun" -- BANG -- a very damaged kitchen sink. He and that same buddy took me into the woods at age 6 and we really went over it all.

I became an NRA Life Member at 16. I follow all the safety protocols without exception.

Regarding a value of gun ownership: Our house was broken into 17 years ago as we lay in bed. Now living in a peaceful Suburb in Ohio, I had no loaded guns in the house. They were all locked up.

As the "flashlight light" from the "bad person" came down the hall towards the bedroom, I faked it -- loudly told my wife to call the cops -- and I would "take care of these guys". They ran out the open window they used to get in. The cops investigated the whole house. Found proof of the "break in" (It wasn't a dream). Saw my guns. They said breaking into occupied houses was extremely rare in our Suburb because 1/3 of the residents were armed. So, gun owners occasionally save unarmed neighbors from having to face down criminals in their own home.


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#4583396 - 10/23/21 11:59 AM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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While I am a strong adherent to the 4 rules of firearm safety, I have to agree with Rick_Rawlings that things are different on a movie set, and also that it is still too early to say who is to blame.

What are the safety protocols for guns on movie sets?

Some recent information on what transpired:

Alec Baldwin didn't know weapon had live round before fatally shooting cinematographer, warrant says

As Hollywood practices go, it appears that actor Baldwin is not responsible for checking the chamber(s) / barrel. Producer Baldwin could potentially be looking at civil liability though.

From what that second link says, I would think that Armorer Gutierrez, and/or Assistant Director Hall have the largest legal problem(s), depending on how the specifics are determined.

It's still early in the process. More will come to light in due time.

Edit: I should probably point out that I am no fan of Alec Baldwin. In fact, I have a very low opinion of the man, to put it mildly. Nonetheless, the incident and its fallout do not rest upon that.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 10/23/21 12:07 PM.
#4583397 - 10/23/21 12:16 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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#4583399 - 10/23/21 12:26 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted by CyBerkut
As Hollywood practices go, it appears that actor Baldwin is not responsible for checking the chamber(s) / barrel. Producer Baldwin could potentially be looking at civil liability though.


A good statement of the current situation. More investigation is warranted to determine culpability. For example, I just read this:

Quote
"Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks, two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times."


What "fired two rounds" means was not clear (i.e. Blank or Live?).


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#4583409 - 10/23/21 02:27 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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What a mess they are in. Personally, I don't like and won't watch Alec in movies. His convictions and mine are very dissimilar. But I would never wish this tragedy on him. And I would think it wrong to hold him accountable, no matter how brain dead he is, because he is an actor and dependent on others to make his props work and safe. The failure would be with the armorer, from my understanding of how they work. And also if they have any 'rules' about pointing 'guns' at people on the set. You can obviously never be too careful doing that. With guns, there are two types of shooting when you don't mean to: Accidental Discharge, and Negligent Discharge. Almost everything can turn a supposed 'Accidental" discharge into Negligence. You not checking the weapon, not securing the weapon, or being unsafe with the weapon is never and 'Accident'. My point: Someone was Negligent in making sure that the Actor didn't get a gun that could hurt someone.


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#4583412 - 10/23/21 02:36 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted by Allen


The "shooting accident" I eye-witnessed. When I was 5 standing in the kitchen, my Father's shooting buddy handed him a "supposedly empty" pistol to consider buying. My father aimed it out the back window but kids were playing out there; so he aimed at the kitchen sink (i.e. never aim a gun towards people for any reason -- unless you intend to use it) -- and pulled the trigger on the "empty gun" -- BANG -- a very damaged kitchen sink. He and that same buddy took me into the woods at age 6 and we really went over it all.

Why didn't your father check to make sure the gun wasn't loaded?


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#4583416 - 10/23/21 03:06 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
Why didn't your father check to make sure the gun wasn't loaded?


Because he stupidly believed his gun-aficionado friend would never hand him a loaded gun. Pretty much the same excuse being used by the Actor in the subject situation. Its never an excuse. Fortunately, my Father did use the precaution of never aiming any gun (loaded or unloaded) at, or near, people -- he wasn't completely stupid.

Rather than trust a stage hand (who may have nefarious motives), actors who will be using real guns in scenes should be taught basic gun safety and how to check. Heck, basic safety is easy/quick to learn and checking for live rounds only takes seconds to do in most cases -- so easy a child can do it.


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#4583418 - 10/23/21 03:10 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Bill_Grant]  
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Originally Posted by Bill_Grant
And I would think it wrong to hold him accountable, no matter how brain dead he is, because he is an actor and dependent on others to make his props work and safe.


Too early and not enough information for me to agree with you on that. Hopefully the people who witnessed this tell the truth about what happened.


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#4583427 - 10/23/21 04:42 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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I don’t understand why they had a live round on set. That is if the early info is correct about the round.

Early info is usually wrong info.


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#4583428 - 10/23/21 04:55 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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#4583432 - 10/23/21 05:27 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Worth a read:


Great link.

The women in charge of the guns seems to have been unqualified. Trained -- but lacking confidence regarding gun handling; and, thus, a candidate to make a mistake someday.

Per experienced firearms handling staff the Basic rule was: No live ammo on set, never point a gun at a real person (even behind a camera) and pull the trigger (just setup so it looks like that on film). Etc.

I.e. For films, they're merely requiring that strict/basic Gun Safety rules be followed.


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#4583444 - 10/23/21 07:03 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Deadline also cites an unnamed source who said a gun had gone off 'in a cabin' while someone was holding it, days prior to the shooting that killed Hutchins.

'A gun had two misfires in a closed cabin. They just fired loud pops – a person was just holding it in their hands and it went off,' they said, apparently referring to unintentional discharges.


See what I said about Accidental or Negligent discharges. Guns don't "just go off" These people have no idea how to handle a gun, real or otherwise.


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#4583446 - 10/23/21 07:06 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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What a difference some training makes....


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#4583449 - 10/23/21 07:23 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin. "

Say what you want about gun safety, its not his job to check it. And after 3 misfires that would be time the producers should halted production and closely review the handling or safety of guns and if need replace or supervise their armorer. So i dont blame alec on the shooting, but if he is a producer (even if just in title as it is common these days) and he was aware of the misfiring before, then that is on him for neglicence.

#4583462 - 10/23/21 09:42 PM Re: Alec Baldwin Rust movie incident [Re: Bill_Grant]  
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Originally Posted by Bill_Grant



What a difference some training makes....


Ayup! I was thinking about the John Wick movies and Keanu Reeves, myself. I would like to see some behind the scenes footage of how they filmed the scenes where close range shooting is occurring.

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