Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#4580495 - 09/18/21 02:42 PM IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic!  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac Offline
Member
KodiakJac  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
IL-2 Great Battles is now fantastic!

Had to pretty much give up flight simming for the past 6 years due to family health issues, including my own, but now I'm back and all I can say is WOW! Jason and the 1CGS team have done an incredible job! thumbsup

For anyone reading this who is still on the fence about switching over from IL-2 1946 BAT, now is the time. The single player campaign is great, as well as the scripted single player campaigns (both the 1CGS payware and the community designed freeware).

IL-2 Great Battles is now rich in single player content, and the breadth of aircraft and activities is fantastic for the theaters covered. For me, IL-2 Great Battles has now replaced IL-2 1946 BAT for any of the theaters and time periods covered by Great Battles...it's not even close.

IL-2 Great Battles is FANTASTIC, and there is still more to come


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4580591 - 09/20/21 02:39 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 707
Docjonel Offline
Member
Docjonel  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 707
Playing IL-2 Great Battles in VR is truly an awe-inspiring experience.
If you get the chance you must do it. The cockpits are superbly modelled.


"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" -- Mark 8:36
#4580613 - 09/20/21 11:49 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
I'm glad to see you are enjoying it Kodiak. I don't have VR yet but I play IL-2 every week both in solo and coop modes. It's a fantastic flight sim indeed.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4580999 - 09/24/21 04:42 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
My reading rotation has lately included many books on the air war in Europe. Clostermann's Big Show, Caldwell's JG 26 War Diary, Kershaw's The Few, Johnson's Thunderbolt, and a number of others. These are all re-reads, but they work their way back in eventually, after a few years. As a result I have been thinking of getting a prop sim. Haven't flown one in years.

What I want, or hope to find, is a prop sim with a realistic environment. A Falcon 4-like sense that your flight or mission is one of many in the air at that time, each going about their own business to their own objectives. I was a huge fan of Il-2 of course, but it's biggest drawback was exactly this, that the airspace was too sterile, all that existed was your flight and those waiting at the objective. There were not other aircraft doing their thing, on strike missions or capping targets, where you could catch a section in the landing pattern or scrambling just as happenstance.

How does this game fare in this light? What's the battle space like? If not this sim, which one has the most dynamic feeling airspace?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581034 - 09/24/21 09:53 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
For me, Il-2 BoX has a long way to go before it can complete with IL-2 DBW or IL-2 CUP (haven't tried BAT) in terms of sheer scope and breadth of single player experience, and the visuals and general immersion are still at least good enough for me. BoX is better than on first release - Il-2 on steroids, I think somebody said - and with successive additions has improved scope but it still feels to me a bit like RoF ported to WW2, largely lacking the 'wider war going on' feeling...although the original release made some effort by putting the campaign's progression through the distinct phases of the Battle of Stalingrad.

For the experience that you're flying missions in a wider war that's going on around you, no WW2 sim I've played comes close to bettering Battle of Britain II, whose dynamic campaigns really do have the Battle being fought all around you.


Last edited by 33lima; 09/24/21 09:54 PM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4581180 - 09/27/21 10:50 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by DBond


What I want, or hope to find, is a prop sim with a realistic environment. A Falcon 4-like sense that your flight or mission is one of many in the air at that time, each going about their own business to their own objectives. I was a huge fan of Il-2 of course, but it's biggest drawback was exactly this, that the airspace was too sterile, all that existed was your flight and those waiting at the objective. There were not other aircraft doing their thing, on strike missions or capping targets, where you could catch a section in the landing pattern or scrambling just as happenstance.

How does this game fare in this light? What's the battle space like? If not this sim, which one has the most dynamic feeling airspace?



This sim most certainly does NOT have a "living battlefield" dynamic campaign where success or failure in one mission can affect the overall strategic situation of the campaign. To be fair, not a single flight sim to date has had the same type of dynamic campaign that Falcon 4 has. Having said that, IL-2 does have two major types of campaigns. There are the historical scripted campaigns where you fly a specific set of missions and then there is the "Career" mode where you play as a specific pilot where you have dynamically-generated missions but those missions don't have any connection to each other. Whether you fail or succeed in a mission you will not see any obvious change on the campaign map when you start the next mission. I guess the best way I can describe it is that "Career" mode is a bunch of dynamic missions strung together while your pilot stats are tracked and you can manage the personnel of your squadron once you achieve a high enough rank.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4581210 - 09/27/21 05:33 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks guys, and I don't expect these sims to match F4 in this regard. But I do want one where it feels like my mission isn't the only one on the map. I used Falcon 4 as an example because it is the best at this. But I don't expect any prop sim to match it. But I do want that sort of feeling that you are a small piece of a much larger war, and not the sole focus, which is what Il-2 felt like. I used to use Lowengrin's DCG to mitigate it and get more stuff in the air, but that was a half-measure at best. I'm going way back I know, but I haven't flown props in years.

Maybe one of the WW1 sims would be better for this? Or maybe WotR? I'd like it be more comprehensive than the BoB, and also be WW2, but in the end I think I'd rather find one that gives me the best single player experience even if the setting isn't the one I would choose first.

I have the best rudder pedals I've ever owned by a wide margin now, and I'd like to put them to use in a good stick and rudder type flight sim. Some time ago I saw one of the WW1 sims had a very detailed pilot career, which one was I looking at?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581222 - 09/27/21 06:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle
Hey Derek,

Nearest i could find to a falcon style ww2 sim would be BOS.

The career mode is really good and with pat wilsons third party dynamic campaign generator it becomes really good.

Check it out...

#4581245 - 09/27/21 10:02 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
Adger Offline
Senior Member
Adger  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
My personal opinion fwiw ..i have to respectfully disagree somewhat with KodiakJac and Phoenix's post. I found IL2's "career" mode to be very poor Pats done a fantastic job with his Gen but..you never feel part of the war. I commend what 1C-777 have achieved and continue to improve but i believe the series is more focused on MP not SP. The A.I although improved is still at times for me massively frustrating, in fact i often fire IL2 up hoping that after each patch there's significant improvements and im gutted when i see very little or even no advancements in this issue. Phoenix hopefully will offer his advice and knowledge on why he enjoys the series ..it's great to have different but respectful opinions on things.

No sim does it has good as F4 doubt the'll be one that ever will DBond. Im a big fan of OBD,S sims i make no bones about that..BHAH II feels like you part of a war, detailed squadrons/Jastas Real aces..7000 historical skins and it's just received a Platinum award from PC Pilot.I personally think it's the closest thing we have to F4 albeit be in a WW1 theatre. There's no "spawning" in of aircraft the AI are doing their own patrols ect in the sim.. You're not going to affect the outcome of the war because...We all know how the great war ended biggrin There's a DID campaign thread on the WOFF forum have a read mate and hopefully enjoy the shots and reports that some of the lads write ect ..here's a link if you're interested .. D.I.D Thread.

WOTR is currently being added to/improved on ..its a bit bare bones at the moment but im certainly looking forwards has to what the OBD lads can conjure up il certainly be keeping a watchful eye on their progress. Best of luck in your simming mate cheers

EDIT: saw Lima's post after i posted and agree with it totally. BOB II patched is a absolute belter of a sim not sure if there's issues regarding WIN 10 or if they were fixed?

EDIT 2: Cheers Lima for the post and link below, il certainly have a look thanks pal

Last edited by Adger; 09/27/21 11:27 PM.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4581248 - 09/27/21 10:20 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Adger]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
Originally Posted by Adger
EDIT: saw Lima's post after i posted and agree with it totally. BOB II patched is a absolute belter of a sim not sure if there's issues regarding WIN 10 or if they were fixed?


O/T now but Felizpe's patch - details on the BoB2 forum at A2A, here: https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=68917 - enables BoB2 up to 2.06 to run on Windows 10 without the CTD on quitting a mission.


SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4581273 - 09/28/21 11:38 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Adger]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Adger
but i believe the series is more focused on MP not SP.


And not just MP but specifically "Dogfight" MP. Even on Sundays and Saturdays when I go in the sim and look at the server lists in the MP browser I see a paltry amount of COOP servers. I rarely ever see more than 5-6 COOP servers and often times some of them are empty. "Dogfight" servers however I will usually see a full page or more.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4581282 - 09/28/21 01:19 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle
Yeah

When i got BOS itself i wasnt exacly chuffed.

The career mode even with pats gen didnt really feel like i was in the middle of a major war?

Then i got the Battle of Bodenplatte dlc and for some reason this gave me the fix i was looking for.

BOB2 is a great sim but i just got fed up with it sadly.

#4581384 - 09/29/21 01:01 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Adger]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Good stuff, thanks for the comments gentlemen.

Originally Posted by Adger


No sim does it has good as F4 doubt the'll be one that ever will DBond. Im a big fan of OBD,S sims i make no bones about that..BHAH II feels like you part of a war, detailed squadrons/Jastas Real aces..7000 historical skins and it's just received a Platinum award from PC Pilot.I personally think it's the closest thing we have to F4 albeit be in a WW1 theatre. There's no "spawning" in of aircraft the AI are doing their own patrols ect in the sim.. You're not going to affect the outcome of the war because...We all know how the great war ended




What are these acronyms? OBDS and BHAH? I prefer WW2, but a good WW1 sim with a detailed pilot career would do fine. If I'm honest I'd really prefer a WW2 prop sim that let me simulate a career in II/JG 26 from 1940 through 1945. Does that exist?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581390 - 09/29/21 01:30 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
Adger Offline
Senior Member
Adger  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
Sorry DBond..OBD, is Old Brown Dog the developers of both WOTR (Wings Over the Reich) and BHAH II which is Between Heaven and Hell 2, a successor to Over Flanders fields and Wings Over Flanders Fields..they have a Wings Over Flanders Fields forum right here on SimHQ.

Second part of your question, not too my knowledge maybe there's somebody out there that can offer some information regarding your question, i believe II/JG 26 could be in WOTR but at the moment its the Battle of Britain only (After the success and release of BHAH II, i believe their now continuing work on WOTR) so hopefully soon we'll have some extra flyables/theatres ?


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4581422 - 09/29/21 06:47 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks, and yes the II/JG 26 thing is very specific and I didn't expect any sim would cater to it. But it is what I'd like to do. I'd love a career where I could fight on the Channel Front with the Abbeville Boys, transferring around to the historic bases, and transition through the right aircraft models as the war goes on. A career mode tightly tied to history, but with enough latitude that it writes its own story.

Dream on, man.

In the meantime, I appreciate the help and info, and I will keep looking at these various sims and pick one that most closely matches my vision of what I want in a flight sim. Focke-Wulf 4.0 if you know what I mean, would be ideal smile

I'll see which one seems the closest match.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581423 - 09/29/21 07:03 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Here's perhaps an odd question that just came to mind...

Which of these sims has the best clouds, and weather? I remember Il-2 when it came out had the first 'puffy' clouds, but they were more mirage than anything. They only appeared at close range, and had little effect on combat. A step in the right direction, but in the end quite disappointing. Do any of these sims have an impressive and realistic weather and cloud simulation?


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581480 - 09/30/21 11:06 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by DBond
Do any of these sims have an impressive and realistic weather and cloud simulation?



IL-2 Great Battles has had multiple major updates over its life and weather effects like rain, fog and wind are fully implemented. The clouds of course are not DCS level of quality but they look darn good compared to the way they looked in IL-2 1946.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4581576 - 10/01/21 01:55 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
Originally Posted by DBond
Thanks, and yes the II/JG 26 thing is very specific and I didn't expect any sim would cater to it. But it is what I'd like to do. I'd love a career where I could fight on the Channel Front with the Abbeville Boys, transferring around to the historic bases, and transition through the right aircraft models as the war goes on. A career mode tightly tied to history, but with enough latitude that it writes its own story.


For Il-2 '46:

...right unit, short period..

https://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=77

...different units, right period:

https://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=14

https://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=15

https://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=16


SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4581582 - 10/01/21 02:24 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
My question about clouds and weather is coming mostly from a combat perspective. Part of this equation is how the AI deals with it. For example can the AI lose the player's aircraft when it enters cloud? Or does it magically track it, meaning the cloud is only a visibility detriment to the player? Can clouds obscure formations that would otherwise be close enough to spot and engage so that they fly right past each other?

Realistic weather (and its effect on sighting, tracking and attacking) is so important in combat flight sims, but I can't think of many that do it right, if at all. But then I've been out of the prop game for a while

Falcon 4 BMS has it, though for me it took some time to get it set up right, and to have control over it for my campaigns. This thread gives a little insight in how it works there, and the effect it has on prosecuting combat sorties. Of course in modern jets the visibility part is less important, since you have more acquisition and tracking options than the old Mark 1s you're limited to in prop sims simulating an earlier era. But it still makes a significant difference even in BMS. Combat altitudes , ordnance types and effectiveness of targeting pods are all affected.

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4389453/1

Beyond that there is just the cool factor of realistic weather environments. Heavy weather too, has an effect on airmanship, especially takeoff and landing right? It should affect navigation as well.

Check this shot. This is me on approach to Taegu in Iron Fortress. Forgive the jet intrusion in a prop forum! In BMS I make custom weather maps. I want heavy weather, storms, snow and lightning. I love it. One of the effects of this heavy weather is high winds. In this screenshot of this final approach you can see the flight path marker is completely off the HUD! That's a 54 knot crosswind (I have the DED set to display this). Real seat of the pants stuff. I was able to grease it down, with the FPM only covering the threshold when I was over it haha smile

[Linked Image]


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581583 - 10/01/21 02:25 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks lima33!


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581588 - 10/01/21 03:36 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle
Nice pic,,,

#4581589 - 10/01/21 03:41 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks man. It really is great stuff. And it's great to have control over it, to make custom weather maps and really turn up the intensity. In stock F4 seeing weather like that was a very rare occurrence. But now I can sock my field in with vicious thunderstorms if I want to. And I do smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581674 - 10/02/21 02:10 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Without Adger's permission I am stealing one of his screenshots from another thread.

[Linked Image]

That looks fantastic. Does the AI ignore this and can track you through the soup?

I wish I could get excited about WW1 crates, it's never been my jam. But a lot of what I am reading about the pilot careers, and the excellent screenshots are pulling me closer.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581742 - 10/03/21 08:25 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
Adger Offline
Senior Member
Adger  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,808
No problem DBond at times BHAH II looks absolutely stunning, not 100% sure so i wouldn't want to give you the wrong info regarding Ai seeing in clouds etc but theres settings in Workshop inside the sim that allows different settings.
I've found a link to some questions posted a while ago here.. AI Vision Also the forum is a real friendly place honestly pal if you have any questions regarding the sim there's nearly always somebody there to give you some answers cheers


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4581920 - 10/05/21 08:11 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 148
Vox Offline
Member
Vox  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 148
Penns Woods
WOFF:BH&H II is a superb single player.

FYI product info: WINGS OVER FLANDERS FIELDS:BETWEEN HEAVEN & HELL II

“New A.I.Vision - the A.I.constantly look around the skies as they fly, to try and see any enemy flights - they do not always succeed and they also cannot see through clouds and visibility distance is reduced in haze. Their skill rating also affects their vision acuity. This applies to pilots and observers/gunners. Thus it is possible to sneak up on unsuspecting aircraft crews.”

#4582021 - 10/06/21 03:20 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks. I'm interested for sure. I've got other gaming plates spinning at the mo, but I do plan to get a new flight sim for the winter gaming season haha. Maybe WW1 crates will be the one, even if I haven't flown those since Red Baron!


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582093 - 10/07/21 12:07 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 148
Vox Offline
Member
Vox  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 148
Penns Woods
Yea, you have to adjust to a slower pace, fragile kites, a new simplicity, and getting real close. I guess the feeling that a bigger war is going-on around me is what I like best about WOFF. Ive get this from Falcon, BOB2, Silent Hunters, and let’s not forget ole Mig Alley in it’s day.

#4582120 - 10/07/21 12:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
If you are trying to sell me you're doing a great job, as all four of the sims you just listed are among my all-time favorites, and just for that reason. That is precisely what I am looking for in my next flight sim, that sense of being part of something much bigger. And all of the games you listed are great with this.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582496 - 10/13/21 01:48 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,118
Brigstock Offline
Senior Member
Brigstock  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,118
London, England
I used to be a fan of OFF back when it was released and it was the only WWI on the park apart from a very aging RB3D. It had some really good things going or it. However the GFX engine was getting old even back then. The OBD guys have wrung out every thing they can from the CFC3 engine, but it is still the CFC3 engine and it looks poor in my opinion compared to todays sims. BOX isn't perfect but it does look and feel good, Graphics and 3d are excellent and it has multiplayer. It's no where near perfect but with the right skins in place and using PWCG, you can have a rich single player experience.

I gave up on WOFF a few years back. The 2D clouds look great in screen shots but don't render very well when in the live environment. I then flew an Alby like a helicopter in a dog fight and managed a very unreal side slip with nose up that just would not have been possible. I've dared to mention this in the past and got flamed for having a negative viewpoint on WOFF.

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO

#4582500 - 10/13/21 02:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Brigstock]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Brigstock

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO




I never did play that one but I did play "Dawn Patrol" by Rowan and enjoyed it quite a bit.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4582561 - 10/14/21 02:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
The campaign side of BoB was (is?) great, especially from the British side, reacting to the raids as they formed up over France and came to deliver the mail. It had that total war feeling that I'm looking for in my next flight sim. I reviewed that sim for Frugalsworld, and Rowan sent me a pre-master copy of it (which I still have). So that's the copy I played and not sure if it was any different from the release version. I had a few issues with that sim, but for it's time it was great, and the campaign was ambitious and fun.

The Battle of Britain is a great focus for a dynamic campaign, for many reasons. Rowan took a shot and delivered a good product, not perfect, but better than most of what's out there. Wouldn't it be great if the industry underwent a shift back to giving the gameplay as much importance as the simulation? There are great games where the attention to detail is astounding, but the devs seem oddly unaware of how limited the actual gameplay is. DCS is like this. Combat Mission too. We need more developers like Rowan, who saw how important this is.

Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582563 - 10/14/21 04:19 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4582853 - 10/18/21 04:42 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Brigstock]  
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob Offline
Member
BuckeyeBob  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
Originally Posted by DBond
Without Adger's permission I am stealing one of his screenshots from another thread.

[Linked Image]

That looks fantastic. Does the AI ignore this and can track you through the soup?

I wish I could get excited about WW1 crates, it's never been my jam. But a lot of what I am reading about the pilot careers, and the excellent screenshots are pulling me closer.



Originally Posted by Brigstock
I used to be a fan of OFF back when it was released and it was the only WWI on the park apart from a very aging RB3D. It had some really good things going or it. However the GFX engine was getting old even back then. The OBD guys have wrung out every thing they can from the CFC3 engine, but it is still the CFC3 engine and it looks poor in my opinion compared to todays sims. BOX isn't perfect but it does look and feel good, Graphics and 3d are excellent and it has multiplayer. It's no where near perfect but with the right skins in place and using PWCG, you can have a rich single player experience.

I gave up on WOFF a few years back. The 2D clouds look great in screen shots but don't render very well when in the live environment. I then flew an Alby like a helicopter in a dog fight and managed a very unreal side slip with nose up that just would not have been possible. I've dared to mention this in the past and got flamed for having a negative viewpoint on WOFF.

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO



DBond,

Since this is an IL-2 thread, I don't want to hijack it by talking about WOFF too much, but I will try to address some of your questions, particularly regarding the clouds, since I have spent most of my free time over the last several years working on the largest cloud mod for WOFF, called the Optional Cloud mod. I am currently working on version 4.0, which should be out in less than a month. I believe that Adger's screen shot is one from the current version of the mod, OCM 3.0. I disagree with Brigstock to a certain extent and I don't think he has played WOFF for a few years. Since then, the developers have made several enhancements to the sim, particularly to the AI and the terrain. While not as glossy overall, I think the terrain in BHaH2 is actually more realistic than ROF's. I also find the terrain in ROF to be much too sterile. In WOFF, the landscape is dotted with towns, cities, railroad and factory sites, and dozens of airfields, both active and inactive! True, they haven't upgraded the clouds very much, but that is why I made my mod!

The clouds in WOFF are 2D, but they do look good from a distance. Up close, there are some problems, but some of those complained of by Brigstock may be due to use of earlier versions of my cloud mod. When I first started, I didn't know anything about how clouds worked in WOFF, I was just interested in adding a bunch of additional cloud types for variety (stock WOFF had 30+ clouds, my new version will have over 120)! The problem was that many of my new clouds exacerbated a cloud flashing problem that is a leftover from the original CFS3. While I attempted to deal with this in version 3.0 of my mod, with version 4.0 I think I have finally resolved most of the issues and created some fantastic looking clouds, to boot! This isn't to say that the clouds don't have any problems. Unlike real-life clouds, I don't particularly care how clouds render near the horizon. Due to perspective, the farther we look into the distance, the greater concentration of clouds we should see near the horizon. This does not seem to happen in WOFF so much. Even then, you can still get some incredible looking screenies in WOFF. For example:

[Linked Image]

The AI behavior in WOFF is, in general, superior to that in ROF, but not without it's problems. Overall, the "strategic" AI is great in WOFF. Although you can turn on "AI Never Backs Down" in Workshop if you wish, the AI does not have a death wish and will flee if the numbers or the fight does not go their way. You can also see a variety of AI skill and moral levels, which effect their ability to fight. On the negative side, the "tactical" side of the AI is not as well implemented, although I would say it is on par with most other flight sims and is also the most difficult to code with human-like behavior. As Brigstock also indicated, while good, the FM in WOFF has some occasional oddities, but nothing that is a game-breaker, at least in my opinion. Oh, and the AI cannot see through clouds, although there are frequent gaps, at least in stock WOFF.

Of course, the most appealing part of WOFF is the campaign. While you don't have strategic or tactical control over air-groups or squadrons as in BoB2, nothing makes you feel more of part of an active squadron than WOFF! While your actions cannot effect the outcome of the war, you can choose to fly either as a "lone-wolf" or as a leader of men, protecting your squadron mates when they get into a bit of a jam. And nothing simulates the flow of the war around you like WOFF. In my opinion, ROF can't compete in that regard.

Okay, this "short" post has obviously changed into something else! DBond, if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them via PM. Also, as Adger said, there is a very friendly community at the Wings Over Flanders Fields forum. Please stop by and pay them a visit. I'm sure that someone there will be more than happy to answer any of your questions.

BB


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4583010 - 10/19/21 11:08 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.



Which is why im so dam peeved with DCS devs,

They got the devs and the dollars and the hardware to make dcs into an amazing world...

Too many modules and no passion .

Its all money and nothing is wrong with devs bringing home money to their wives and kids:We all have to eat...

But wheres the dynamic campiaign that they been promising since flanker 2?

Just saying cause it will drive the genre to its death...

#4583015 - 10/20/21 03:22 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Phoenix54C]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
CyBerkut Offline
Administrator
CyBerkut  Offline
Administrator
Hotshot

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,619
Florida
Originally Posted by Phoenix54C
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.



Which is why im so dam peeved with DCS devs,

They got the devs and the dollars and the hardware to make dcs into an amazing world...

Too many modules and no passion .

Its all money and nothing is wrong with devs bringing home money to their wives and kids:We all have to eat...

But wheres the dynamic campiaign that they been promising since flanker 2?

Just saying cause it will drive the genre to its death...



I can't speak to Flanker 2, but from Black Shark 1 on through to fairly recently, Eagle Dynamics were actively dissing a dynamic campaign. Even after DC came in as the number 1 choice desired in a poll on their forums a few years ago, they still didn't say they would pursue it until much more recently.

#4583042 - 10/20/21 02:54 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
If you can manage Windows 7, BoB's successor BoB2-WoV patched to BDG 2.13 is still a great choice for an immersive and realistic 'war going on' campaign experience; if on Win 10, Felizpe's patch over at A2A's BoB2 forums will get you as far as BDG 2.06. Still as close to the feeling of real as it gets, and probably ever will get.

The restored 11 Group Ops Room at Uxbridge, which I visited last year, taken sitting in the Duty Controller's seat:

[Linked Image]

The BoB2 Fighter Command level version:

[Linked Image]

And the result:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Of course Il-2 BoX has some great content too, each to their own.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Attached Files shot_003.jpgshot_008.jpgshot_987.jpgshot_785.jpgbob 2021-09-13 22-43-12-02.jpgbob 2021-09-13 22-37-06-63.jpg2021_2_9__21_53_32.jpg2021_9_22__22_39_58.jpg2021_2_10__0_3_29.jpg
Last edited by 33lima; 10/20/21 03:21 PM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4583149 - 10/21/21 12:25 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks Bob for that detailed post, it sheds much light on it. Too bad those aren't 3D, volumetric (or whichever term is appropriate) clouds that you can fly through, and around. I want a prop sim where I can disappear in to the clouds, and probably more importantly, the AI can too. I want to drop out to find a Spitfire rightthere, or to be tooling along below an overcast and have a whole squadron suddenly drop out and everything explodes in to action around me, ya know?

Phoenix, I agree. Last ED title I bought was LOMAC. Great fidelity, but a sterile environment. Good flight sim, but not a good combat flight sim, and everyone here knows what I mean I reckon. I said at the time I'd give their sims another go once they got around to making the combat side more robust, and here we are nearly twenty years later and LOMAC is still the last one.

Nice shots LIma. I put a lot of time in to BoB (the original). As mentioned I got a pre master from Rowan to do a review, and then played the heck out of it. I was a massive MiG Alley fan, and BoB was a natural progression. Great sim that I had a lot of fun with. A few things I didn't care for including the damage model, but overall it gave that big war feeling, and having an operational layer over top of it all is like icing on a cake. Doesn't work with Win 10 then?



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4583183 - 10/21/21 03:21 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
Re BoB2 and Win 10, I got it (with the latest 2.13 update) working EXCEPT I got CTDs exiting the 3d world most of the time. Which doesn't make it unplayable, just means the 3d results don't get counted in campaign or featured in the debrief and it requires a sim re-start to resume. Felizpe's patch enables BoB2 to work in Win 10 without the CTD, up to and including the 2.06 patch so its missing some updates/features. I got a dual boot Win 7 on a separate SSD to get over this on my i3-based system, tho I gather Win 7 needs some serious techie stuff to get it working on more recent chipsets/mobos.

I may be wrong but IIRC I read somewhere that the AI could not see through the 'sheet' clouds in Rowan's BoB, but CAN see through the volumetric clouds introduced in BoB2, something to do with the more complex coding that would have been needed. I've never really noticed that, but the better-looking clouds are very noticeable so I can see why they went for that on balance.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Attached Files shot_585.jpgshot_286.jpg
Last edited by 33lima; 10/21/21 03:31 PM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4583191 - 10/21/21 04:57 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
DBond Online content
Strategerizer
DBond  Online Content
Strategerizer
Veteran

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 13,195
NooJoyzee
Thanks man. I see JG 26! 6th Staffel, nice.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4583215 - 10/21/21 07:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob Offline
Member
BuckeyeBob  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
Originally Posted by DBond
Thanks Bob for that detailed post, it sheds much light on it. Too bad those aren't 3D, volumetric (or whichever term is appropriate) clouds that you can fly through, and around. I want a prop sim where I can disappear in to the clouds, and probably more importantly, the AI can too. I want to drop out to find a Spitfire rightthere, or to be tooling along below an overcast and have a whole squadron suddenly drop out and everything explodes in to action around me, ya know?


I think I may have left you with the wrong impression. While the clouds are basically 2D, they do have volume (I don't know how it's done), and you can fly through, above, and under them. You can hide in them, as can the AI, although I think that is mainly by accident. I have been bounced by the AI coming out of the clouds, but more frequently, entire flights may miss each other because one or both are obscured by clouds. Let me put it this way: I think the clouds in WOFF are the best 2D clouds I have ever seen, and they do a pretty good job of simulating actual 3D clouds, so most of the time you won't notice much of a difference.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the two best things about WOFF: the dynamic campaign and the devs total and utter devotion to historical accuracy. If a certain squadron was located at a specific location and flew a specific type of aircraft at a particular time during the war, you can be certain that that squadron is at the right place and flies that exact type of aircraft in the game. With regard to the dynamic campaign, while you can't effect the outcome of the war, there are no scripted missions or even scripted flights in WOFF. Each one is different.

I hope my explanation makes sense. Please let me know if you have any other questions.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4583479 - 10/24/21 03:37 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle

Last edited by Phoenix54C; 10/28/21 09:39 PM.
#4584356 - 11/03/21 11:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Phoenix54C Offline
I am just a cowboy
Phoenix54C  Offline
I am just a cowboy
Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 585
Emerald Isle

Last edited by Phoenix54C; 11/09/21 11:26 PM.
#4585724 - 11/22/21 10:51 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: 33lima]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
wheelsup_cavu  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
Corona, California
Always nice to see people are still linking to the content at Mission4Today @33lima. thumbsup


Wheels


Cheers wave
Wheelsup_cavu

Mission4Today (Campaigns, Missions, and Skins for IL-2)
Planes of Fame Air Museum | March Field Air Museum | Palm Springs Air Museum
#4585737 - 11/23/21 01:21 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: wheelsup_cavu]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
33lima Offline
Senior Member
33lima  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,712
Belfast, NI
Originally Posted by wheelsup_cavu
Always nice to see people are still linking to the content at Mission4Today @33lima. thumbsup


Wheels


Still plenty of great content over there at M4T that I'm looking forward to trying, never mind the ones I'll try again...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]







Attached Files 10.11.2021 0-52-42.jpg10.11.2021 1-12-39.jpg13.11.2021 1-45-36.jpg
Last edited by 33lima; 11/23/21 01:22 AM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  CyBerkut, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0