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#4581588 - 10/01/21 03:36 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Nice pic,,,

#4581589 - 10/01/21 03:41 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Thanks man. It really is great stuff. And it's great to have control over it, to make custom weather maps and really turn up the intensity. In stock F4 seeing weather like that was a very rare occurrence. But now I can sock my field in with vicious thunderstorms if I want to. And I do smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581674 - 10/02/21 02:10 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Without Adger's permission I am stealing one of his screenshots from another thread.

[Linked Image]

That looks fantastic. Does the AI ignore this and can track you through the soup?

I wish I could get excited about WW1 crates, it's never been my jam. But a lot of what I am reading about the pilot careers, and the excellent screenshots are pulling me closer.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4581742 - 10/03/21 08:25 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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No problem DBond at times BHAH II looks absolutely stunning, not 100% sure so i wouldn't want to give you the wrong info regarding Ai seeing in clouds etc but theres settings in Workshop inside the sim that allows different settings.
I've found a link to some questions posted a while ago here.. AI Vision Also the forum is a real friendly place honestly pal if you have any questions regarding the sim there's nearly always somebody there to give you some answers cheers


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Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
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#4581920 - 10/05/21 08:11 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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WOFF:BH&H II is a superb single player.

FYI product info: WINGS OVER FLANDERS FIELDS:BETWEEN HEAVEN & HELL II

“New A.I.Vision - the A.I.constantly look around the skies as they fly, to try and see any enemy flights - they do not always succeed and they also cannot see through clouds and visibility distance is reduced in haze. Their skill rating also affects their vision acuity. This applies to pilots and observers/gunners. Thus it is possible to sneak up on unsuspecting aircraft crews.”

#4582021 - 10/06/21 03:20 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Thanks. I'm interested for sure. I've got other gaming plates spinning at the mo, but I do plan to get a new flight sim for the winter gaming season haha. Maybe WW1 crates will be the one, even if I haven't flown those since Red Baron!


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582093 - 10/07/21 12:07 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
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Yea, you have to adjust to a slower pace, fragile kites, a new simplicity, and getting real close. I guess the feeling that a bigger war is going-on around me is what I like best about WOFF. Ive get this from Falcon, BOB2, Silent Hunters, and let’s not forget ole Mig Alley in it’s day.

#4582120 - 10/07/21 12:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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If you are trying to sell me you're doing a great job, as all four of the sims you just listed are among my all-time favorites, and just for that reason. That is precisely what I am looking for in my next flight sim, that sense of being part of something much bigger. And all of the games you listed are great with this.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582496 - 10/13/21 01:48 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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I used to be a fan of OFF back when it was released and it was the only WWI on the park apart from a very aging RB3D. It had some really good things going or it. However the GFX engine was getting old even back then. The OBD guys have wrung out every thing they can from the CFC3 engine, but it is still the CFC3 engine and it looks poor in my opinion compared to todays sims. BOX isn't perfect but it does look and feel good, Graphics and 3d are excellent and it has multiplayer. It's no where near perfect but with the right skins in place and using PWCG, you can have a rich single player experience.

I gave up on WOFF a few years back. The 2D clouds look great in screen shots but don't render very well when in the live environment. I then flew an Alby like a helicopter in a dog fight and managed a very unreal side slip with nose up that just would not have been possible. I've dared to mention this in the past and got flamed for having a negative viewpoint on WOFF.

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO

#4582500 - 10/13/21 02:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Brigstock]  
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Originally Posted by Brigstock

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO




I never did play that one but I did play "Dawn Patrol" by Rowan and enjoyed it quite a bit.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4582561 - 10/14/21 02:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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The campaign side of BoB was (is?) great, especially from the British side, reacting to the raids as they formed up over France and came to deliver the mail. It had that total war feeling that I'm looking for in my next flight sim. I reviewed that sim for Frugalsworld, and Rowan sent me a pre-master copy of it (which I still have). So that's the copy I played and not sure if it was any different from the release version. I had a few issues with that sim, but for it's time it was great, and the campaign was ambitious and fun.

The Battle of Britain is a great focus for a dynamic campaign, for many reasons. Rowan took a shot and delivered a good product, not perfect, but better than most of what's out there. Wouldn't it be great if the industry underwent a shift back to giving the gameplay as much importance as the simulation? There are great games where the attention to detail is astounding, but the devs seem oddly unaware of how limited the actual gameplay is. DCS is like this. Combat Mission too. We need more developers like Rowan, who saw how important this is.

Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4582563 - 10/14/21 04:19 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4582853 - 10/18/21 04:42 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Brigstock]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Without Adger's permission I am stealing one of his screenshots from another thread.

[Linked Image]

That looks fantastic. Does the AI ignore this and can track you through the soup?

I wish I could get excited about WW1 crates, it's never been my jam. But a lot of what I am reading about the pilot careers, and the excellent screenshots are pulling me closer.



Originally Posted by Brigstock
I used to be a fan of OFF back when it was released and it was the only WWI on the park apart from a very aging RB3D. It had some really good things going or it. However the GFX engine was getting old even back then. The OBD guys have wrung out every thing they can from the CFC3 engine, but it is still the CFC3 engine and it looks poor in my opinion compared to todays sims. BOX isn't perfect but it does look and feel good, Graphics and 3d are excellent and it has multiplayer. It's no where near perfect but with the right skins in place and using PWCG, you can have a rich single player experience.

I gave up on WOFF a few years back. The 2D clouds look great in screen shots but don't render very well when in the live environment. I then flew an Alby like a helicopter in a dog fight and managed a very unreal side slip with nose up that just would not have been possible. I've dared to mention this in the past and got flamed for having a negative viewpoint on WOFF.

But I must agree with the comments above about Rowans BOB and it's campaign, defo the king of prop sim campaigning IMO



DBond,

Since this is an IL-2 thread, I don't want to hijack it by talking about WOFF too much, but I will try to address some of your questions, particularly regarding the clouds, since I have spent most of my free time over the last several years working on the largest cloud mod for WOFF, called the Optional Cloud mod. I am currently working on version 4.0, which should be out in less than a month. I believe that Adger's screen shot is one from the current version of the mod, OCM 3.0. I disagree with Brigstock to a certain extent and I don't think he has played WOFF for a few years. Since then, the developers have made several enhancements to the sim, particularly to the AI and the terrain. While not as glossy overall, I think the terrain in BHaH2 is actually more realistic than ROF's. I also find the terrain in ROF to be much too sterile. In WOFF, the landscape is dotted with towns, cities, railroad and factory sites, and dozens of airfields, both active and inactive! True, they haven't upgraded the clouds very much, but that is why I made my mod!

The clouds in WOFF are 2D, but they do look good from a distance. Up close, there are some problems, but some of those complained of by Brigstock may be due to use of earlier versions of my cloud mod. When I first started, I didn't know anything about how clouds worked in WOFF, I was just interested in adding a bunch of additional cloud types for variety (stock WOFF had 30+ clouds, my new version will have over 120)! The problem was that many of my new clouds exacerbated a cloud flashing problem that is a leftover from the original CFS3. While I attempted to deal with this in version 3.0 of my mod, with version 4.0 I think I have finally resolved most of the issues and created some fantastic looking clouds, to boot! This isn't to say that the clouds don't have any problems. Unlike real-life clouds, I don't particularly care how clouds render near the horizon. Due to perspective, the farther we look into the distance, the greater concentration of clouds we should see near the horizon. This does not seem to happen in WOFF so much. Even then, you can still get some incredible looking screenies in WOFF. For example:

[Linked Image]

The AI behavior in WOFF is, in general, superior to that in ROF, but not without it's problems. Overall, the "strategic" AI is great in WOFF. Although you can turn on "AI Never Backs Down" in Workshop if you wish, the AI does not have a death wish and will flee if the numbers or the fight does not go their way. You can also see a variety of AI skill and moral levels, which effect their ability to fight. On the negative side, the "tactical" side of the AI is not as well implemented, although I would say it is on par with most other flight sims and is also the most difficult to code with human-like behavior. As Brigstock also indicated, while good, the FM in WOFF has some occasional oddities, but nothing that is a game-breaker, at least in my opinion. Oh, and the AI cannot see through clouds, although there are frequent gaps, at least in stock WOFF.

Of course, the most appealing part of WOFF is the campaign. While you don't have strategic or tactical control over air-groups or squadrons as in BoB2, nothing makes you feel more of part of an active squadron than WOFF! While your actions cannot effect the outcome of the war, you can choose to fly either as a "lone-wolf" or as a leader of men, protecting your squadron mates when they get into a bit of a jam. And nothing simulates the flow of the war around you like WOFF. In my opinion, ROF can't compete in that regard.

Okay, this "short" post has obviously changed into something else! DBond, if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them via PM. Also, as Adger said, there is a very friendly community at the Wings Over Flanders Fields forum. Please stop by and pay them a visit. I'm sure that someone there will be more than happy to answer any of your questions.

BB


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4583010 - 10/19/21 11:08 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.



Which is why im so dam peeved with DCS devs,

They got the devs and the dollars and the hardware to make dcs into an amazing world...

Too many modules and no passion .

Its all money and nothing is wrong with devs bringing home money to their wives and kids:We all have to eat...

But wheres the dynamic campiaign that they been promising since flanker 2?

Just saying cause it will drive the genre to its death...

#4583015 - 10/20/21 03:22 AM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: Phoenix54C]  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix54C
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by DBond


Then again, Rowan went tits up (or swallowed up by Empire, whatever).



And then Empire went out of business as well a few years later. The gamer market and hence the industry simply changed. Something like Rowan's BoB could be made again but it will be made by a small-time developer with limited resources over the course of several years.



Which is why im so dam peeved with DCS devs,

They got the devs and the dollars and the hardware to make dcs into an amazing world...

Too many modules and no passion .

Its all money and nothing is wrong with devs bringing home money to their wives and kids:We all have to eat...

But wheres the dynamic campiaign that they been promising since flanker 2?

Just saying cause it will drive the genre to its death...



I can't speak to Flanker 2, but from Black Shark 1 on through to fairly recently, Eagle Dynamics were actively dissing a dynamic campaign. Even after DC came in as the number 1 choice desired in a poll on their forums a few years ago, they still didn't say they would pursue it until much more recently.

#4583042 - 10/20/21 02:54 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
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If you can manage Windows 7, BoB's successor BoB2-WoV patched to BDG 2.13 is still a great choice for an immersive and realistic 'war going on' campaign experience; if on Win 10, Felizpe's patch over at A2A's BoB2 forums will get you as far as BDG 2.06. Still as close to the feeling of real as it gets, and probably ever will get.

The restored 11 Group Ops Room at Uxbridge, which I visited last year, taken sitting in the Duty Controller's seat:

[Linked Image]

The BoB2 Fighter Command level version:

[Linked Image]

And the result:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Of course Il-2 BoX has some great content too, each to their own.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Attached Files shot_003.jpgshot_008.jpgshot_987.jpgshot_785.jpgbob 2021-09-13 22-43-12-02.jpgbob 2021-09-13 22-37-06-63.jpg2021_2_9__21_53_32.jpg2021_9_22__22_39_58.jpg2021_2_10__0_3_29.jpg
Last edited by 33lima; 10/20/21 03:21 PM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
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#4583149 - 10/21/21 12:25 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Thanks Bob for that detailed post, it sheds much light on it. Too bad those aren't 3D, volumetric (or whichever term is appropriate) clouds that you can fly through, and around. I want a prop sim where I can disappear in to the clouds, and probably more importantly, the AI can too. I want to drop out to find a Spitfire rightthere, or to be tooling along below an overcast and have a whole squadron suddenly drop out and everything explodes in to action around me, ya know?

Phoenix, I agree. Last ED title I bought was LOMAC. Great fidelity, but a sterile environment. Good flight sim, but not a good combat flight sim, and everyone here knows what I mean I reckon. I said at the time I'd give their sims another go once they got around to making the combat side more robust, and here we are nearly twenty years later and LOMAC is still the last one.

Nice shots LIma. I put a lot of time in to BoB (the original). As mentioned I got a pre master from Rowan to do a review, and then played the heck out of it. I was a massive MiG Alley fan, and BoB was a natural progression. Great sim that I had a lot of fun with. A few things I didn't care for including the damage model, but overall it gave that big war feeling, and having an operational layer over top of it all is like icing on a cake. Doesn't work with Win 10 then?



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4583183 - 10/21/21 03:21 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Re BoB2 and Win 10, I got it (with the latest 2.13 update) working EXCEPT I got CTDs exiting the 3d world most of the time. Which doesn't make it unplayable, just means the 3d results don't get counted in campaign or featured in the debrief and it requires a sim re-start to resume. Felizpe's patch enables BoB2 to work in Win 10 without the CTD, up to and including the 2.06 patch so its missing some updates/features. I got a dual boot Win 7 on a separate SSD to get over this on my i3-based system, tho I gather Win 7 needs some serious techie stuff to get it working on more recent chipsets/mobos.

I may be wrong but IIRC I read somewhere that the AI could not see through the 'sheet' clouds in Rowan's BoB, but CAN see through the volumetric clouds introduced in BoB2, something to do with the more complex coding that would have been needed. I've never really noticed that, but the better-looking clouds are very noticeable so I can see why they went for that on balance.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Attached Files shot_585.jpgshot_286.jpg
Last edited by 33lima; 10/21/21 03:31 PM.

SimHQ Battle of Britain II screenshots thread
CombatAce Mission Reports
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." (attributed to Marcus Aurelius)

#4583191 - 10/21/21 04:57 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Thanks man. I see JG 26! 6th Staffel, nice.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4583215 - 10/21/21 07:31 PM Re: IL-2 Great Battles is Fantastic! [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Thanks Bob for that detailed post, it sheds much light on it. Too bad those aren't 3D, volumetric (or whichever term is appropriate) clouds that you can fly through, and around. I want a prop sim where I can disappear in to the clouds, and probably more importantly, the AI can too. I want to drop out to find a Spitfire rightthere, or to be tooling along below an overcast and have a whole squadron suddenly drop out and everything explodes in to action around me, ya know?


I think I may have left you with the wrong impression. While the clouds are basically 2D, they do have volume (I don't know how it's done), and you can fly through, above, and under them. You can hide in them, as can the AI, although I think that is mainly by accident. I have been bounced by the AI coming out of the clouds, but more frequently, entire flights may miss each other because one or both are obscured by clouds. Let me put it this way: I think the clouds in WOFF are the best 2D clouds I have ever seen, and they do a pretty good job of simulating actual 3D clouds, so most of the time you won't notice much of a difference.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the two best things about WOFF: the dynamic campaign and the devs total and utter devotion to historical accuracy. If a certain squadron was located at a specific location and flew a specific type of aircraft at a particular time during the war, you can be certain that that squadron is at the right place and flies that exact type of aircraft in the game. With regard to the dynamic campaign, while you can't effect the outcome of the war, there are no scripted missions or even scripted flights in WOFF. Each one is different.

I hope my explanation makes sense. Please let me know if you have any other questions.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
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