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#4579253 - 09/05/21 10:23 PM Squadron dynamics  
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 1
J99Grimbold Offline
Junior Member
J99Grimbold  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 1
First of all, I really enjoy the campaigns in WOFF II. It gives you enough information and historical detail to immerse yourself and then let's the magic of the random factor do it's thing to deliver memorable situations which don't focus on the player being some kind of born ace pilot (because of the human advantage over the AI) and flying only to "score" but on the life in/of a squadron during the First World War. Of course depending on the side you fly on and the date of your campaign things will feel a little different. Until now I completed a few campaigns as a german fighter pilot during the year 1918 in poor or mediocre Jastas, so keep that in mind regarding my following problem/question. Normally after a few weeks of combat, say three to four weeks, I m the only one still alive of the original squad which was active when I joined the squadron. During this time, I got to like some of the AI pilots for various reasons, for example the young talented one with a bright future (the few personal details on every man are precious and give a nice flavour which isn't there in other flight sims), the haughty Hauptmann scoring all the kills in the Jasta and declining your own claims or the veteran with 40 missions without a single kill. Some of the most intense moments playing the game I have when these guys are in danger, they score kills or I realise when reading the after action report that they met their fate. The problem is after said month or so nobody of the old guys remains and the new ones are normally worse pilots (I experienced an average Jasta degrading to a poor one) and the planes get sparse which leads to fewer men in the missions and a higher loss rate because of that and also fewer kills. The more missions I fly per week the worse the problem gets, because loss rates are generally much higher on missions I fly compared to the ones I "simulate" (when I skip over a day or a week to wait for more replacement aircraft to appear at the aerodrome). In the end this takes much of the fun out of the campaigns for me, because I don't want to concentrate only on my survival or the number of my air victories, which would feel very gamey and take the immersion out. I understand that the high loss rate and the increasing bleakness of the situation could be described as representative for a german pilot in 1918. But historically in these days of the war the kill/loss ratio was around 5:1 in favour of the germans and this I don't see happening in my campaigns. It could be because of not flying in a better Jasta but also the poorer ones I was in did much better historically then to what I witnessed ingame. Don't get me wrong, as I said I still enjoy the experience and it is telling that I write this post after my only surviving mate in Jasta 56 (5 kills, freshly received the EK I) succumbed to his wounds after our flight of Pfalz DIII got absolutely annihilated by around 15 Camels of two differents squadrons. No I m again the only "old guy" and we don't have any planes to fly in the beginning of Operation Michael. I also don't want to fly in an elite ace squadron made out of some people getting resurrected by the game because they are historical aces, after getting shot down on every third mission.

So now to my question: Are there options to limit the lethality of the missions you fly yourself to keep the story of some AI comrades going on for longer? Have you experienced other/better squadron dynamics in other circumstances? And: Is the option for reduced AI capability after they sustained damage good for the described problem or bad (I had it activated)? Thanks guys!

Last edited by Grimbold; 09/06/21 08:47 AM.
#4579256 - 09/05/21 11:14 PM Re: Squadron dynamics [Re: J99Grimbold]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,728
Rick_Rawlings Offline
Senior Member
Rick_Rawlings  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,728
Great first post! Yeah, it is somewhat "gamey" in some regards because it is a game. The lethality is actually way down from previous iterations because fights will break off more easily as combatants get tired or damaged and, if you can believe it, collisions are actually reduced. Still, to keep it fun and not a job (at least from my point of view) combat has to be frequent and protracted, whereas in real life, combats were often inconclusive. Sometimes planes would make one diving pass and head for home, whether they hit or missed... You can reduce gun strength, reduce frequency of encounters and don't force encounters all in the workshop, that might help. Maybe the devs could add an option so no one dies on the days you skip missions, or at least have the death rate greatly reduced. I typically fly only every third day, imagining the other days are the flights with no contacts, washouts, transport missions, whatever, and I still lose quite a few guys. There's another guy on here, maybe he will pop in, who has been trying to foster his wingmen along. As you can imagine, it hasn't been going well!

Welcome aboard! salute

Last edited by Rick_Rawlings; 09/05/21 11:16 PM.

The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4579277 - 09/06/21 09:20 AM Re: Squadron dynamics [Re: J99Grimbold]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,148
Polovski Offline
Polovski  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,148
Obviously, balancing some Hollywood against "Real Life" is difficult to make the sim interesting. I am sure most people don't want to do most missions in a busy 1917/1918 area and yet not engage the enemy often or for more than 30 seconds flash past. In real life from a personal survival point of view you'd tend to want to avoid the enemy up there unless you have a large advantage, but in a sim you want to meet them more!

Some things to try setting in Workshops, depending on your settings ;
AI Never Backs Down to OFF
AI Enhanced Skill level to OFF
AI Reduced Vision to ON
AI damage Affects Skill ON
Gun accuracy main guns and rear guns to less accurate (2nd page in Workshops).
Regional Air Activity to Very light or light.
Forced encounters OFF
Campaign Mission Frequency to Light
Aces And Historical Pilots - ALL

From your Pilot point of view:
if your Pilot dies a lot, do not engage unless you have a total advantage. Hard to do in a sim rather than real life with ONE life..
Set to Outcomes Easy - Pilot Never dies
If you are the leader maybe do not always attack - if you do not have a good advantage for example - thus less fights less AI shot down and you survive more too

Some people want lots of action some don't and want it realistic - hard to balance.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4579335 - 09/06/21 08:28 PM Re: Squadron dynamics [Re: J99Grimbold]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
vonBaur Offline
Senior Member
vonBaur  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
I don't believe Rick was talking about me, but I found my priorities shift as I played the various iterations of OFF/WOFF over the last dozen or so years. Early on it was all about getting kills, no matter how reckless I was (btw, I've never flown with invincibility, unlimited fuel, or unlimited ammunition on). Then, as I was getting impossible scores and medals out the wazoo but dying frequently and often all too quickly, I started focusing on staying alive. This meant ditching the 'dam(n) the torpedoes, full speed ahead' attitude and resulted in fewer kills and the medals coming slower, but a more enjoyable experience which felt more realistic. Now (and for the past several years) I've put the survival of my squad mates above anything else, including personal glory. If I see what looks like an easy kill in one direction and a comrade in dire straits in the other I'm going to the rescue, even if it pits me against two or three opponents and lets an enemy survive. It's resulted in far fewer kills but a LOT of satisfaction seeing everyone land safely back home, especially when you're the flight leader.

Ultimately you can play it any way you want. Turning down the number of historical aces in Workshops can help reduce their seeming indestructability (they can't regenerate if they're not there to begin with), and I know it can get annoying. To me, more on the enemy aces coming back than my own squad mates. I think there are two or three pilots I've shot down multiple times in my current campaign. But the fact is that any that do show up aren't going away until they're supposed to, and will die even if they don't fly. In fact, I don't think that they even fly on the day they die. I think they just wake up dead.

If watching your squadron lose pilots annoys or depresses you don't fly in certain conditions, like British during April 1917 or German toward the end of the war. This is modeled on real events, and during times when one side has a numerical or technological advantage both that and its predictable results will occur.


SALUTE TO ALL!

Moderated by  Polovski 

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