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#4578476 - 08/28/21 08:45 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Using a FreeSync monitor in Gsync Compatible mode is also discussed in the link I posted. It doesn't require any "forcing", just that it may or may not work (again, per Nvidia). Of the three VRR nonGsync monitors I have, only one appears on the "approved" list.

Doing that over DP 1.2a is pretty standard these days. Doesn't always work well, but when it does it just works. Thats what Nvidia says, thats what i posted. No forcing required.

#4578477 - 08/28/21 09:06 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Oh and you probably should go back and change your comment about HDMI 2.0 supporting Gsync Compatible, because per Nvidia, that's inaccurate.

#4578492 - 08/29/21 01:11 AM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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Well, thanks to all of you! Pol, glad to see you chime in. I've considered WQHD; one can never have too much display space! Of course, the logical thing was to copy PR's monitor from his signature and see if Big Blue had it - they don't. But then I saw it on the ASUS website for the trivial, "chump change" cost of US$2999.99.
jawdrop

So... errr. uhhh... Maybe KK is KKorrect, perhaps open the search to 4k G-Synch compatible vs pure G-Synch. It's not like I'm a superhardcore gamer, but I do like pretty flight sims. Or just stay with my original choice... since my current monitor has finally decided that it won't display anything anymore.


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4578497 - 08/29/21 02:52 AM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by HumanDrone
Or just stay with my original choice... since my current monitor has finally decided that it won't display anything anymore.

If I can ask...unless I missed it, you didn't give a specific model for the unit you were considering. (Was it the 32" LG unit from BestBuy you mentioned?) If you'd be good enough to share that info, I'm sure you'd get some feedback that would help you decide if that's the way you really want to go. TBH even though I do try to keep up with the various technologies, I don't actually spend a lot of time "studying" monitors like I might with a GPU, motherboard/chipset, or CPU. But, if I know the specs (based on model no.) it becomes a lot easier to compare specs and do objective evaluation smile

While we're at it, it would be helpful to know a budget (range) - if you don't mind divulging it, that is.

Does the 32" LG at Best Buy you mentioned feature FreeSync support? If so, it might be a decent choice...but there's no denying that, for "clarity" of detail on-screen (especially with a 32" monitor), 4k is gonna be hard to beat (even though there's a ton of data which indicates it's still not the best overall choice for gaming). As you've said yourself, gaming isn't necessarily the most demanding usage area for your new monitor.

No matter what, you're the only one who will genuinely understand which of these features is worth the cost, and which could be areas of potential compromise. Myself personally, I don't think it's necessary to heave $3000 at something just to get a decent monitor. I'd be perfectly happy with something half the price and 90% the same feature set (same as I personally look at *all* PC component costs). I am not the sort who can afford to just buy the most expensive, top-of-the-line from the biggest name when there are much better 'value' choices - and I'd bet I'm in the vast majority in that regard.

Given what you've indicated so far, I'm currently of the opinion a 4k GSync Compatible model is likely going to be the best choice for you. Amazon has an Asus ProArt PA329C for $1100 (still a lot, but much less than $3000...). It appears to support VESA VRR (which translates to "FreeSync") and is an IPS panel (among the better types of display panels). This isn't a monitor primarily targeted at gaming and thus might make it a better option for someone like yourself - it's more a professional video editing type (which would typically mean very high display qualities/color/sharpness etc). It's only 60Hz, and isn't 'true' Gsync, but those two factors probably are what keeps it down near $1000 instead of $2500+ Also, the response time is 5ms, which again isn't where gamers usually want to be - but as discussed, you're a casual flight sim enthusiast, not a super gamer. I personally believe 60Hz and 5ms is perfectly adequate for sims (with the understanding that refresh rate effectively 'caps' your frame rate). I don't think higher FPS is the be-all, end-all, and a lower cap can mean more fluid performance.

If having a higher refresh rate (and thus, a higher effective cap on FPS) is important to you, then by all means, look at 120 or 144Hz monitors - acknowledging, of course, that cost reflects features smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 03:15 AM.
#4578535 - 08/29/21 02:01 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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I have to differ with you there KK about the 60Hz. While it certainly will work, and has for countless decades, 120hz or above is, IMHO, a big step in having a more fluid experience. Just having the overhead in possible positive refresh rate is a good reserve to let your GPU work at its' sweet spot. Honestly, while I was looking for my new monitor, 120hz or above was one of my main determining factors along with resolution, Gsync, size and PPI. My main two factors though were refresh rate and PPI. My Samsung is way above 144hz but that is just overkill and was secondary to my desire to have the most PPI (Pixels Per Inch) that I could on a 32" monitor. Of course PR will tell you that 4k is superior, and it is, but I still like 2560x1440 on a 32" monitor as my ultimate display and keeping things reasonable for my RTX 2070 to handle. Again, my 2 cents.

S!Blade<><

#4578536 - 08/29/21 02:31 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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I don't think we disagree, Blade - as I mentioned, for someone who wants higher refresh rates, by all means - go for it.

The issue, though, is one of cost: Higher refresh rates in a monitor like your 1440 unit will cost "X"...but getting higher refresh rates in a 4k 32" monitor with Gsync winds up adding a lot more to the cost of a unit that's 60Hz. It's not a 'linear' cost increase in both scenarios (at least I don't think so). Going to higher refresh in a 4k monitor will cost proportionally more than in a 1440 unit, all other features being the same - at least that's my opinion; I could be wrong. Like I said I don't spend a lot of time studying monitors, but if someone's in the market, it's easy enough to cost-compare.

I guess the point is you have to basically choose what's more important to you. If your choice includes large size, Gsync (proper), high refresh, and 4k...well, your budget had best be prepared to absorb the difference.

Myself personally, I usually choose lower resolution in order to get other features I find more important: GSync, high refresh, and (something that's not been discussed here yet) curve. So I'm still at 1080p resolution (albeit in a 21:9 format).

Like I said, I think - personally - 60Hz is adequate (and note I say 'adequate', not 'preferred'). When I said ' a lower cap can mean more fluid performance' - what I mean is that it's necessary to include the GPU's performance as part of the equation: If we're talking 4k resolution, many GPUs are going to be working hard trying to keep up with that - resulting in a lower frame rate. If the frame rate is lower anyway, then having 60Hz refresh as a cap is not a major limiting factor, as it would only be a limitation if your GPU is capable of consistent >60 FPS at 4k.

Your 2070 can probably manage that at 1440, but I doubt it will at 4k - since 4k is more than double the amount of pixels as 1440. To be completely accurate (if not specific) it still takes a pretty high-end card to even think about >60FPS at 4k. So if the GPU isn't going to keep up with 60FPS at 4k anyway, then I'd say cap it below 60 (Nvidia drivers allow this, and I think AMD does as well) and it would be more fluid (say a consistent 45, as opposed to trying to reach 60 at times only to fall back down invariably, varying up and down constantly).

So, what I'm saying about the lower cap and fluid performance is considering both resolution and the GPU's potential to maintain frame rate at that resolution.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 03:29 PM. Reason: added/changed wording for clarity
#4578539 - 08/29/21 03:29 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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HumanDrone:
The fortune thing about WOFF is you can set your WorkShop settings to keep a 32", 4K, G-Sync Compatible monitor 99% above 48 FPS so you do not have to spend for the "bleeding edge" technology out there like I do.

My last monitor was a 32", 4K, G-sync, 60 Hz monitor and my current monitor is far smoother (since it is 144 Hz) in game play since it seldom drops below 60 FPS at all 5's in the WorkShop settings.

Since WOFF / WOTR is my main gaming hobby and I'm retired, I like to spend my "play" money on the toys that make my hobby enjoyable (since you can not take it with you no matter how many people try).


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4578542 - 08/29/21 03:48 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: Panama Red]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HumanDrone: The fortune thing about WOFF is you can set your WorkShop settings to keep a 32", 4K, G-Sync Compatible monitor 99% above 48 FPS


I am certain this will depend entirely on one's GPU. WOFF's Workshop settings aren't going to make a GTX1050 run in 4k at 48 frames, I don't care how you set them.

I do realize HumanDrone has indicated he has a 1080Ti, but I think even that GPU *might* be challenged to keep a stable 48+ FPS at 4k - I could easily be wrong; I don't have a 4k monitor to test with. However, here in about a week, I will - it just so happens I ordered one for testing on Friday.

My current setup - two 1080Ti's - has already proven it will outperform even a 3090 (and that's in real-live, first hand tests with both GPU setups in-hand, not speculation)...so I'll see how different GPUs handle 4k. I won't be able to test >60Hz because I can't afford to spend like that just for testing hardware...but then again, if a given GPU arrangement can't maintain 60+FPS at 4k, as I said above, having a higher refresh rate is completely irrelevant.

(The image below shows the actual, real 3090 I tested with, earlier this year. I also have a first-hand witness, who often posts right here on this very forum.)


Attached Files 20210226_112740s.jpg
Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 04:04 PM.
#4578543 - 08/29/21 03:53 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Panama Red Offline
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KK:
Did you ever re-buy WOFF or are you just guessing ???

I know you sold your WOFF years ago since you were always complaining about it, so I did not know if you had re-purchased it so you can speak from experience now.


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4578544 - 08/29/21 04:03 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Please stop trying to start arguments. I have explained countless times that it is not necessary to own an item - anything - in order to have an opinion on it. Many times the number of actual Chevy Vega owners knew about the problems it had, without ever owning one - it is patently absurd to suggest I must spend money on something to know anything about it.

Also, whether I own WOFF is none of your concern. It's entirely between me and OBD (who, as it happens, I have factually donated many times the cost of WOFF to).

But - just this once - and to (hopefully) stop your endless badgering about it - yes, I bought WOFF PE.

Now be good enough to just let it go.

As I said, whether I own it or not doesn't change the facts. It never has - but now you have one less reason to attack me personally instead of sticking to the point.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 04:06 PM.
#4578547 - 08/29/21 04:24 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Blade_Meister Offline
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Easy gents, this can just be a good thread for first hand info on different rig performances and ultimate combinations. No need to squabble. It's all in the interest of sharing with humandrone for his benefit, not bragging rights. Relax, step away from the keyboard and take a breath of fresh air.

S!Blade<>< winkngrin

#4578549 - 08/29/21 04:33 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Yup. It would be nice to stick to the actual discussion, and not the continued sidelining that has no bearing on facts.

#4578559 - 08/29/21 07:12 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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Amen. For now I have pulled the trigger on This 32" LG, QHD with G-Synch compatibility. It was the one I'd mentioned earlier. One thing with Best Buy, you can always haul it back if it isn't suitable.

You guys have been very helpful, and I thank you. PR, don't get the feeling that I'm jealous in any way - as you say, you are retired. God bless you! That's the thing about these "interwebz" - for all I know, someone with a "bleeding edge" system could be a paralyzed veteran, and that's his best way to interface with the world and enjoy some good gaming. In all things charity...except a dogfight! Frankly, I may go your route and get a latest gen 11900 processor - as KK says, with another 1080 Ti in there I would be at least as good, if not better, than a 3090 - if I can set it up right. And with this (marvelous) sim, single processor clock speed is the big deal to this day,as far as I know.

My big thing as I get older and the stuff gets more complicated - or buried in marketing lingo - is to make as sure as I can that I don't get something home and when it doesn't work right or integrate properly, they come back and say, "oh, didn't you know you had to have 3CPO capability to do that? No-o-o-o, you'll have to get our Fokker D-VII add-on..." and you just end up with a tangled nightmare. In my younger days I've done everything from FORTRAN to real-time hexidecimal microprocessor coding, parametric LISP in Autocad, MATLAB programming, all sorts of high-end analysis, but the underlying guts keep creeping further and further away - this last system, about 10 years ago, I ordered it based on a set of components and let them put it together, though I was "right chuffed" with myself that I ended up doing a better overclocking job on it than they did. Now I just want to plug things together and have them work, though I'm willing to do some research, learning, and bouncing it off of more learned folks than myself.

So we'll see how this goes. I really, really appreciate the help, it's increased my comfort level tremendously. And as soon as things settle down a bit, maybe I can start looking at upgrading the box.


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4578566 - 08/29/21 07:52 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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The LG you've linked should be a good choice. IPS panels are among the best overall; nice high refresh, GSync Compatible (variable refresh while costing less overall than a comparable Gsync model would cost) and the size you wanted. Hopefully the resolution at that size won't be an issue and the screen detail will still be nice - mine's a 34 (just wider at 21:9) but is only 1080p as I mentioned, and I really have no issue with details, clarity or sharpness. Blade seems very happy with his 1440 32" monitor.

Many people (who can afford it) have moved to 4k but like I said above it's still a long way from mainstream gaming. Like many others, I prefer higher refresh rate, and keeping the resolution lower than 4k means using a more conservative GPU is realistic (and it still looks and performs great).

The nice thing about your choice - being 2560x1440 - is that your 1080Ti (and lots of other GPUs) are capable of easily reaching higher frame rates that work well with 120+ refresh rates at that resolution. It's less than half the pixels of 4k which makes a huge difference in potential performance. This is precisely why I'm still using a 1080p monitor, and although I'm considering something even wider (even at 32:9 and 49") 5120x1440 would *still* be less pixels than 4k. I think 4k is great for clarity, and applies particularly well in TVs. But in a gaming PC, you have to consider what it takes to push all those pixels - not many GPUs can do it at decent frame rates, and staying over 60FPS at all times in 4k is still largely elusive.

So, if you're happy with the sharpness and detail (which only you can determine), you've made a great choice - and you certainly saved a considerable amount of cost (which can go toward upgrading the balance of your setup) smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 07:53 PM.
#4578571 - 08/29/21 08:52 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Panama Red Offline
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KK:
Since you do not own the game, it's a little hard to comment on what the game can or will do with certain Hardware Specs (i.e. you are just guessing). biggrin A small hint, the video card requirements of this game are no where near what modern games demand, it is still a CPU intensive game, not GPU, which is why a higher resolution monitor can be used versus more modern video games. yep

I have been playing this game since 2008, so I know from first hand experience just what it will and will not do with certain hardware and setting. When I first started playing I was completely happy just to get a constant 40 FPS in the air, let alone getting even close to 60 FPS. In fact the only real reason I ever upgraded my hardware thought the years is to play this game. When ever OBD came out with a new iteration of the game that "taxed" my system, I knew it was time to upgrade the system to get it smooth again (CPU, GPU or Monitor, and sometimes all three at once to get it smooth again).

I merely pass on to others what I have learned first hand experience playing this game over the past 13 years (nothing theoretical about it either).

As for starting and argument, at that I just laugh, if you ever notice you always have to have the last word, which is why it is so easy to "pull you chain" and get you riled up on a thread that you do not even own the game so what you say about what the game can or will do is theoretical since you do not even care to own the game like the rest of us.

Any other place, they would call you a "troll" for commenting on something you do not even have, or care about since you sold your copy years ago, but just want to throw comments around about. biggrin


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4578572 - 08/29/21 08:56 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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What part of I bought WOFF PE did you not understand? I said very clearly yes, I bought it - and yet, you're still on about it. Good Lord. You're more determined to start something with me than you are to actually even read what I wrote.

Why the continued attack on me, instead of commenting on the actual subject?

How does any of this apply to what is being discussed?

But, again - just for you, here it is (please read it this time):

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Please stop trying to start arguments. I have explained countless times that it is not necessary to own an item - anything - in order to have an opinion on it. Many times the number of actual Chevy Vega owners knew about the problems it had, without ever owning one - it is patently absurd to suggest I must spend money on something to know anything about it.

Also, whether I own WOFF is none of your concern. It's entirely between me and OBD (who, as it happens, I have factually donated many times the cost of WOFF to).

But - just this once - and to (hopefully) stop your endless badgering about it - yes, I bought WOFF PE.

Now be good enough to just let it go.

As I said, whether I own it or not doesn't change the facts. It never has - but now you have one less reason to attack me personally instead of sticking to the point.


Oh, and here's a little hint for you: I've probably been playing this game - and owned it - at least as long as you. I started with the original, free P1 of OFF, and have owned/played every version since (except the latest one).


Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/29/21 09:02 PM.
#4578574 - 08/29/21 09:00 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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Gents,If I may be so bold, please. You both have been very helpful. You both know your onions. Perhaps take up your differences in a private conversation, and try to get to know the other fellow better, maybe understand one another more...


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4578575 - 08/29/21 09:02 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
Joined: May 2001
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Panama Red Offline
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KK:
If you own WOFF PE, then I humbly apologize about that, I missed that in your comments above. oops

But to let you know a 1080 Ti will play a 32", 4K, G-sync 60 Hz monitor just fine, because I did that before upgrading years ago (if your CPU is strong enough).


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4578577 - 08/29/21 09:10 PM Re: OT (sort of): Computer Upgrade in Anticipaaa-yaaa-tion of WOFF 2020 [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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HD, as much as I do fully appreciate what you're saying, the problem is that it's very difficult to stand by when all this misinformation about established technical facts is being posted in a public forum. It misleads people, and shouldn't. I have to admit, I take issue with that - as we all should.

This forum cannot help, and in fact will only hurt, when inaccurate information is being spread here. And, as unfortunate as it is, once inaccurate information has been posted publicly, it's simply not possible to correct it privately. At any point in the future, any number of people might rely on that wrong information and make poor choices because of it.

It's obviously not a good idea for this forum to be the source of that kind of problem, and it isn't something that should be taken lightly. Among other things, people often spend considerable amounts of money on this stuff.

As far as getting to know the other fellow, I agree - but it's hard to do that when someone obviously isn't even reading what's being written.


Last edited by kksnowbear; 08/30/21 11:53 AM.
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